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04-21-2013, 08:22 PM
  #51
JLP
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
He's not a different flavour than Drewiskie at this point in his career and has less experience. Not saying one is definitely better than the other, but I think going with a more veteran guy is the way to go. Tinordi was awesome, but he also didn't face a ton of adversity. The team was playing well and while you could argue it was because of it, it was simply because everyone was on the same page and helping out. I really think if you put Drew in the same position, he would be a hell of a lot better than he has been. Some of the goals he's blown in coverage - I don't see an AHL Tinordi necessarily making. We're salivating a little too early. He COULD be the guy, for sure, but I don't think it's wise to risk it. Go with the dude who's exactly the same but with more NHL experience and btw who can shoot from the blueline.


That's IF you're looking for the stay at home simple pass guy and not what LJV brings.
I guess I have to agree the risk would be lower with Drew. But I have to believe the reward could be higher with Tinordi. Q: Which of them has greater potential to be awesome this playoffs?

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04-21-2013, 08:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Emelin's presence isn't missed as much as you're hinting at. He was not the key to our defensive game. Heck, he wasn't even having that good of a season.
He was racking up more points, sure, and getting more ice time, but he was also often caught out of position in our zone.
He did bring a physical element but that has nothing to do with our current bad stretch.

Also, Markov-Emelin weren't the sole shutdown pair, PK-Gorges were used as so as well. Having two reliable pairs was one of our strengths. But that doesn't mean we were one injury away from a complete collapse. We weren't.

Our forwards aren't helping out the Dmen as much, they aren't competing as hard, and most importantly, our goaltending has been garbage.

No, it's not because Emelin isn't clearing the front that Price has no confidence.
Price has no confidence because he let in 3 goals in 4 shots, and two of which were absolute softies with nobody even in front of Price. Since the Leafs game, he's been really off. His butterfly is very weak at the moment, his five hole seems like the grand canyon, his positioning is very off, and his movements are slow. None of this has anything to do with missing Alexei Emelin, the master of our defense.

Yes, it absolutely is a coincidence that we started our bad stretch around the time we lost Emelin. It holds as much water as me saying it's because the guys clinched and they took their foot off the pedal, got their confidence messed up and now look like crap.


I wouldn't mind calling up Tinordi but that's only because I don't think what we have here is necessarily better. It's not because I think Tinordi will change anything.

We need our guys to battle a bit harder, tighten up the coverage, and more importantly, make some freaking saves.
Fully agree with this. People are turning Emelin's absence into something it is not. Emelin wasn't on the ice for 60 min a game before yet the other Ds didn't look like pylons as they do now. This isn't Chris Pronger or Zdeno Chara we're talking about, he's an average D who was having an average year. His loss is nothing renewed focus and confidence can't compensate for.

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04-21-2013, 09:10 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Do you mean for the balance of this year or for next year. It's probably not a bad option for the rest of this year but I hope we can do better for next year.
I mean from now on, rest of the year.

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04-21-2013, 09:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Lionel Mandrake View Post
Fully agree with this. People are turning Emelin's absence into something it is not. Emelin wasn't on the ice for 60 min a game before yet the other Ds didn't look like pylons as they do now. This isn't Chris Pronger or Zdeno Chara we're talking about, he's an average D who was having an average year. His loss is nothing renewed focus and confidence can't compensate for.
Bingo. I wonder if people actually watched Emelin when he played. Solid dman, but he made a lot of mistakes.

The Habs problems are much bigger than just missing Diaz or Emelin for an extended period of time.

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04-21-2013, 09:15 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Bingo. I wonder if people actually watched Emelin when he played. Solid dman, but he made a lot of mistakes.

The Habs problems are much bigger than just missing Diaz or Emelin for an extended period of time.
Everyone knows that it's all DD's fault.



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04-21-2013, 09:31 PM
  #56
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The habs need a physical D to replace Emelin. In two years that D should be Tinordi, with an added 20-30 pounds of muscle. This year Tinordi is skinny and not ready to play the physical game in the NHL. It can't hurt to give him some time in the last game or two but there is a need for someone who can hit. Maybe try Stejskal or Ellis? Serious longshots but we need a hitter more than a player.

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04-21-2013, 09:54 PM
  #57
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I'd be all for playing Tinordi but the fact that he wasn't even used on the PK when he was here (which is supposed to be one of his main strength) tells me that it won't happen. Unless they do give him a couple of games with PK time before the playoffs and he shows he can deliver.

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The habs need a physical D to replace Emelin. In two years that D should be Tinordi, with an added 20-30 pounds of muscle. This year Tinordi is skinny and not ready to play the physical game in the NHL. It can't hurt to give him some time in the last game or two but there is a need for someone who can hit. Maybe try Stejskal or Ellis? Serious longshots but we need a hitter more than a player.
You're kidding right? Ellis isn't more of a hitter than Tinordi and last time I checked, Stejskal struggled in the A and is quite slow footed.

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04-21-2013, 09:58 PM
  #58
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Call him up, pair him with Diaz and tell Tinordi. Hit everything. We don't care if you get caught out of position. We just want you to intimidate forwards.

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04-21-2013, 10:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Call him up, pair him with Diaz and tell Tinordi. Hit everything. We don't care if you get caught out of position. We just want you to intimidate forwards.
"See that number #43, Jarred?"
"Uh... yeah."
"Hit him. Hit him hard and hit him often."
"Uh, okay. Oh, uh, boss?"
"Yeah?"
"See those other guys in the blue and white?"
"Yes."
"I'm gonna hit them all too."

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04-21-2013, 10:06 PM
  #60
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Seems Emelin is still our best d-men on 5-5:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...iewName=points
He is definitively a top-4 and nobody can replace him at this time.

Tinordi might become as good as Emelin or even better but we will have to wait. Especially with a tall d-men like him.
At same age as Tinordi, Emelin had 2G-5A in 43 games in Togliatti.
3 years later, he was the best D in KHL PO with 5G-8A in 22 games.

Tinordi will probably get a call-up so he can hang around and pratice in NHL but I doubt we will see get ice time in PO.

Markov-Diaz
Georges-Subban
Bouillon-Weber
is what we have for the PO.

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04-21-2013, 10:11 PM
  #61
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people blaming our play in the last 6 games on emelin's absence??ha ha ha ha ha ha.and tinordi's gonna come in and wake the whole team up??thank god i came on here today to take a look, i needed a good laugh.

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04-21-2013, 10:14 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Call him up, pair him with Diaz and tell Tinordi. Hit everything. We don't care if you get caught out of position. We just want you to intimidate forwards.
You understand that JT is:
  • 1 lbs more than Markov;
  • 2 lbs more than Gorges;
  • 5 lbs more than Diaz;
  • 8 lbs more than Weber.

In one or two years, he will have 10 lbs more and at 215, he will be in the same category as Subban and Emelin.

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04-21-2013, 10:34 PM
  #63
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I don't think Emelin and tinordi are comparable at ALL in terms of style.

Hitting aside, I've remarked so many times during a game how Emelin has become a great puck moving defenceman, has above average puck control skills, reads plays beautifully now, keeps the puck in the zone, like Subban knows how to play a puck sitting in the corner with an attacked bearing down, is not slow by any means and has a very decent shot.

Tinner might gain these as Emelin has gained them over the past two years, but right now all we saw from him was a small sample where he was solid and simple. Not skating with the puck, not holding on to it, not doing reverses with his partner, just simple, pass to open man or against the glass. And he was really good at it. He may be able to do more, but was probably told to stick to that, which is fine. He's not going to be doing much more outside of that when the stakes are MUCH higher. A mistake by him could cost us a game and he really didn't have much of a workload to expose whether he is likely to do so. If he was by far dominating in the AHL I'd say sure, but from what I hear, he's up and down and often not the best on the Dogs! Don't wanna play with fire even though in the future, I'm sure he'll be one of our biggest rocks (actually literally the biggest).

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04-21-2013, 10:44 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Call him up, pair him with Diaz and tell Tinordi. Hit everything. We don't care if you get caught out of position. We just want you to intimidate forwards.
If this is what they wanted to use him for, then yeah, he is better than Drewiskie (still, Tinordi is a lanky young man, not what he will be in two years or even four). But I do NOT want him being used for that cuz that's exactly the problem right now, not the hitting, but leaving guys wide open in the slot with three guys out of position and Carey being put in a position I think none of us are too comfortable with right now.

We need a positionally sound D man and like I said, Drewiskie has played that before and Kings fans gross approval of him has to count for something. They DID win the Cup last year even if he wasn't a regular. The fans know their players.

That said, I like what I saw from last game's D lineup in terms of bottom pairings. LJV created quite a few chances and didn't cost us. It was sad face Gorges and PK who coughed up pucks or didn't cover guys along with the forwards who have no idea what's going on. It honestly seems like pickup hockey where nobody is told what position they're playing, whether man to man, zone, etc. It's make it up on the fly cuz the last guy screwed up causing a domino effect. I'd keep the same lineup but granted, if it's toronto we might have to reconsider based on the risk/reward of LJV. If he's on fire in the next 3 games...do we need a Tinordi/Drewiskie or Swiss #2?

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04-21-2013, 10:46 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
You understand that JT is:
  • 1 lbs more than Markov;
  • 2 lbs more than Gorges;
  • 5 lbs more than Diaz;
  • 8 lbs more than Weber.

In one or two years, he will have 10 lbs more and at 215, he will be in the same category as Subban and Emelin.
+1

his height betrays his "bigness" factor

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04-21-2013, 10:47 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
"See that number #43, Jarred?"
"Uh... yeah."
"Hit him. Hit him hard and hit him often."
"Uh, okay. Oh, uh, boss?"
"Yeah?"
"See those other guys in the blue and white?"
"Yes."
"I'm gonna hit them all too."
LOL. Cuz we've seen any indication that he can do that. He's not even doing that in the AHL, but now he's gonna catch Kadri!

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04-21-2013, 10:49 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
I think it is more logical than ridiculous. If you say "we suck now" and then look for reasons why, that process will not illuminate a single shining path that leads to Emelin's loss, I agree.

But this is a Tinordi thread and the idea seems to be we could use a physical D to compensate for Emelin's loss. Hits are important I think you will agree, and as I posted above Emelin had about as many hits as Subban, Gorges and Markov's combined total. That's huge. Also believe we'd have to agree that come playoffs the games' physical aspect ramps up.

Ergo we hope Tinordi can fill the Emelin void, as Weber et al can't.
No there's nothing logical about assuming the loss of Emelin is the reason why we lost 4 out of 5 and allowed 25goals during that stretch. Not a single thing.

Again, you can say we miss his physicality but that's a far way from being the cause of a horrible stretch.

People in Mtl are desperate for size, physicality and aggressivity. That's why we have so many freaking discussions about enforcers, having guys that can fight, are big and can hit. We crave it to the point where fans will start believing a pretty average and physical Dman having a decent year (at the very best) getting injured is the reason our whole team looks like garbage. It's ridiculous.

Tinordi is not ready. I don't personally believe he is and I think management would have called him up already if they thought he were. They might be forced to make that call up if the guys up here don't get their crap together, but we're talking about a 6'6 guy who's only 205 (and maybe less considering players usually lose weight throughout the season).
He is not strong enough yet, and certainly hasn't shown much physicality over here with only 3 hits thrown in 6 games.

I miss Emelin's presence too, it was good to see him lay some bodies out and even drop the gloves, but we would be playing just as bad with him in the line up right now. Nothing will change unless everybody (forwards and defenders) start paying more attention to their coverage and our goalies start making saves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24get View Post
Seems Emelin is still our best d-men on 5-5:
Really? You're going to look at points only to determine who's better at ES? Did you seriously just do that?

Emelin is a bottom pair player here with Diaz in the line up.

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Old
04-22-2013, 12:43 AM
  #68
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I like it. I thought for sure he was coming up as soon as Emelin went down. As some have said, don't forget what Subban did after a very good AHL season. Not to say Tinordi will do the same but it just shows a rookie can play a big role.

Gorges-Subban
Markov-Tinordi
Bouillion-Dias

You can switch Dias and Tinordi and Boullion and Weber/Drewiskie as needed. No better guy for Tinordi to play with than Markov. Subban-Gorges will get the top line but Tinordi could be a real asset on the PK and even strength clearing the crease and keeping forwards honest.

Even with Emelin in I would still have him in the lineup or at least the press box. Habs don't have size on D and Tinordi brings that, along with a very simple but effective game.

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04-22-2013, 04:25 AM
  #69
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Emelin's presence is missed more than perhaps anyone could have predicted given the team's supposed defensive depth and overall consistency before his injury.

Markov and Emelin were the top pairing, but it's inherently obvious that things have not been the same since Emelin went down. He was a threat defensively in more ways than one. He kept the opposing forwards honest

Drewiski obviously wasn't the answer...just not enough talent there to make up for having no physical dimension. Not overly big or physical, less than average skater...he was picked up as a press box guy with character...a number one cheerleader, not someone thrust into a key role as he was after the injury to Emelin.

That said...with Weber and Diaz in the lineup, like last night... is there a shorter overall blueline in the league? Not a lot of size there..in fact no one who would be mistaken for a crease clearer. PK is capable of producing the odd big hit when he's mobile, but as far as standing in front of the net and clearing people out..he is not among the league's elite, and nor should he be expected to play that role...hell...he may win the Norris Trophy, and that would predominantly be because his offensive abilities.

It is important to have defencemen with long reach when it comes to defensive situations, in particular the power play. Just like the offensive lineman in football, defensive defencemen are in an advantageous position if they have a long wingspan; if you're 5-8 and have a 50-inch chest like the Cube you can't crosscheck a guy two feet away from you

This team is reeling...not coincidentally since Emelin was felled by injury. Gally and Chucky have given the team a boost at several pivotal points during the season with their rookie enthusiasm...

It's time to bring back the rookie who was solid on the point when he got his callup....in fact I thought he should never have been sent back. Tinordi brings elements to the position that this team seriously lacks at this time.

Price's confidence is shot right now...namely because no one is clearing the front of the net. Well....when you dress 6 dmen under 6-2 in today's NHL.....that is not going to win you a Cup, let alone a couple of playoff series no matter how much offensive talents they may possess.

Bring up the kid for this season-ending road trip and hand him the shutdown role. Pair him up with Gorges on the PK, hand him the keys and see what he does with it. If the Habs start giving up seven goals a game as opposed to the five or six they've had a propensity for allowing of late, then it's a failed experiment, and they go with the guys they've been crashing and burning with for the playoffs.
Tinordi little slow making decisions in his own end...he's not ready. But yeah, desperate times calls for desperate measures, call him up. Even though he is not ready given his size we need him bad. Overall, this is why you keep veteran depth in AHL. Be good time to call up a Alex Henry. He's as good as Tinordi at this stage in his development but no risk of crushing Tinordi's confidence.

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04-22-2013, 04:39 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
For those questioning bringing up a "big dman" for the playoffs and how it might hurt his development....Habs brought up another big rookie for the playoffs a couple of years after Dryden, a big rookie dman by the name of Robinson. Didn't hurt his development at all.

Late note - Ok - Larry split that season in the AHL/NHL and it was his second pro season...but close. Hey - it was 40 years ago. :-)
Not going to be very many Robinson's though. Don't want to label the kid and create expectations...let them mature first.

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04-22-2013, 04:50 AM
  #71
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I dont see why not

worst case scenario is they flame out of the playoffs (which they would have done either way probably)


on a side note,I want JT to spend the summer with Frankie Bou. He needs to add about 15-20 LBS

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04-22-2013, 07:08 AM
  #72
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Tinordi has a lot of work to do on his skating and balance beofre being considered a legit NHLer. He is not the solution right now.

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04-22-2013, 08:08 AM
  #73
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Whether or not he is a 6th defenseman or higher, it is still the NHL playoffs and that is when NHL players show their very best. Do you think an player who just finished his rookie AHL season is up to the challenge? I am skeptical, albeit hopeful.
I'm generally with you in this, I don't like the idea of a baptism of fire for defensemen, but with the current situation I think we have to do something to get bigger for the playoffs. Plus with the vultures already circling over price, if tinordi makes a mistake that leads to a goal, the "fans" will no doubt pin it on price.

He's big, looked good in the call up, can play limited minutes, can be a force in front of the net or at least big enough to get in the way. As long as it is clear what we expect of him, I think its worth a shot.
Does his callup reek of desperation? A little,bit but what is the alternative?

I'd let him finish the season see how he does and even if he's a press box player, have him be there as I think he is, of the guys who got called up, the one closest to filling an unmet need.

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04-22-2013, 09:16 AM
  #74
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Keep Weber in, rest Bouillon, Gorges and Markov one game each in favour of the Tin Man with a heart.

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04-22-2013, 10:02 AM
  #75
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Tinordi and Subban: it was meant to be!



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