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Carkner, Boulton, Martin, & C.MAC

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Old
04-20-2013, 06:34 PM
  #51
Renbarg
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For people saying we dont need goons like boulton or carkner how are they considered goons? They can skate they can play hockey but not like you top guys. Do either of them go out and two hand anyone or elbow, hit people from behind, sucker punch, knee i could go on. Guys like cooke, avery for example are cheap shot artists and until that is completely out of the game you will always see guys like Boulton and Carkner. The typical goon is out of the game now like grimson, tony twist, Cox. Now in todays NHL you have to be able to play the game to stay in the game. I think as well as the teams that keep signing Boulton and Carkner as well guys like Orr, Westgarth and so on agree. IF people dont think guys like this are needed and skilled teams dont need guys like this go watch the Leafs sens game where the leafs player in a fight just head butted the sens guy.
They may not be the traditional goon, but Boulton can't play 10 minutes of hockey. Carkner is also a 12-15 minute guy. At least Martinek, Joenssuu, Ullstrom, Strait can be trusted to take more shifts.

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04-20-2013, 06:41 PM
  #52
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They may not be the traditional goon, but Boulton can't play 10 minutes of hockey. Carkner is also a 12-15 minute guy. At least Martinek, Joenssuu, Ullstrom, Strait can be trusted to take more shifts.
How cant he play 10 mins a game is he ever given the chance with this team. He logged a ton of ice in atlanta for a player of his style. Was the last guy in the league to record a Minus in a game and also has scored a hat trick. Also been in the league to 12 years. Not to bad for a goon. There are also lots of other players in the league that the coach just does not give them the time. There are lots of games where Boulton is not dressed and still Cappy was sitting the 4th line didnt matter who was dressed. For that matter people here were screaming bloody murder to sit Okposo or trade him at the start of the year. Now after getting that ice time he needed to get in shape he is playing like a force.

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04-20-2013, 07:13 PM
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every team would love to have 3 Phaneuf's and 3 Lucic's in their line up. there's not enough to go around, though...

so teams do the best they can to provide a certain degree of toughness.

it's part of the game, because the powers that be, allow it. it's not this way in Europe. you can't blame the Isles mgmt. for employing guardians

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04-20-2013, 07:20 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Weird how Bolton and carkner were scratched in essentially a playoff game a couple of nights after they supposedly won the game a few nights ago. And against a physical team like Winnipeg too. Weird, guess cappy wasn't as impressed as some on the boards ( thankfully). Worked out just fine too, very strange. I did notice major contributions from some physical players with actual hockey skills like martin and Cmac. That just adds to the point that physical players that can actually play NHL hockey are needed, not useless scrubs that are liabilities but throw a few punches. But of course that will fall on deaf ears with so many, I mean after all if you don't like carkner and Bolton you don't like physical hockey and prefer figure skating and clearly never played hockey before. Lol whatever.
If you call barely winning while having our players manhandled an improvement over winning against a better team without being manhandled.....

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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04-20-2013, 07:26 PM
  #55
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They may not be the traditional goon, but Boulton can't play 10 minutes of hockey. Carkner is also a 12-15 minute guy. At least Martinek, Joenssuu, Ullstrom, Strait can be trusted to take more shifts.
Big effing deal? So the rest of our top 6 defense splits the other 5 minutes, and a couple RW's get double shifted a few times during the game.

A team like Montreal is a prime example that you need guys that are willing to fight. Last year they were weak and had no grit in the lineup..... they paid for that in the standings by being one of the worst teams in the league. This year they added Prust, Armstrong, Boullion and Moen with basically no changes to the roster and they're a two seed.

Teams play loose when they know there's some muscle in the lineup to protect them. That a fact that is proven over and over.... stated by the players and reinforced by the GMs of the league that add that aspect to their teams.

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04-20-2013, 07:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
If you call barely winning while having our players manhandled an improvement over winning against a better team without being manhandled.....

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Toronto outhit the Islanders 40 to 25. The Islanders got hit 3 extra times today by Winnipeg. Doesn't seem like the fisticuffs Boulton and Carkner brought to the table Thursday against Toronto slowed them down or altered their plan of taking the body. Nor would it have changed the mentality of Winnipeg today. One thing is for sure.... Boulton isn't making the pass to Martin today for that 3rd goal like Joensuu did, in fact my money says he doesn't even get to that puck.

And to be brutally honest, Winnipeg AND Toronto looked ridiculous out there getting beat to the puck, taking themselves out of position ALL night by going for hits instead of playing the puck. The Islanders had both of these teams chasing them around for most of the last 2 games.

So yes I guess we can agree to disagree. You are always going to play teams like Toronto and Winnipeg and Philly etc. They are not going to change their gameplans ever, They are going to run you all night, and having Carkner, Boulton or Mike Tyson in the line-up is not going to have them back-off one iota, it's the biggest myth going.

Whats not a myth, playing 18 guys a night and two guys that really hurt you more than help you but are out there strictly to play policeman is going to hurt you in the long run. Over time its hard playing 18 against 20. I suspect thats why both of those space-wasters were in the press box watching the team win a playoff game this afternoon.

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04-20-2013, 08:00 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Toronto outhit the Islanders 40 to 25. The Islanders got hit 3 extra times today by Winnipeg. Doesn't seem like the fisticuffs Boulton and Carkner brought to the table Thursday against Toronto slowed them down or altered their plan of taking the body. Nor would it have changed the mentality of Winnipeg today. One thing is for sure.... Boulton isn't making the pass to Martin today for that 3rd goal like Joensuu did, in fact my money says he doesn't even get to that puck.

And to be brutally honest, Winnipeg AND Toronto looked ridiculous out there getting beat to the puck, taking themselves out of position ALL night by going for hits instead of playing the puck. The Islanders had both of these teams chasing them around for most of the last 2 games.

So yes I guess we can agree to disagree. You are always going to play teams like Toronto and Winnipeg and Philly etc. They are not going to change their gameplans ever, They are going to run you all night, and having Carkner, Boulton or Mike Tyson in the line-up is not going to have them back-off one iota, it's the biggest myth going.

Whats not a myth, playing 18 guys a night and two guys that really hurt you more than help you but are out there strictly to play policeman is going to hurt you in the long run. Over time its hard playing 18 against 20. I suspect thats why both of those space-wasters were in the press box watching the team win a playoff game this afternoon.
Hitting is a part of the game. Its the dirty hits that Boulton and Carker keep guys from taking. Think about how many times in playoffs last year that games got really chippy people taking stupid penalties and what not. Cheap shots once the game has been decided. Are you saying the when the great one Wayne was playing that Dave Semeko was a great hockey player. Nope he sucked ass yet with him in the line up they managed to win a crap load of games and guess what The Great One never got ran or greased. Bet if Crosby had Big Mac in the line up the night Stekel took a run at him it would not have happened. All i am saying it doesnt hurt the team to have one in the line up every night incase. I prefer a forward as you dont have to worry one of them not logging a ton of ice. As i have stated before you dont want you D fighting unless they have to.

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04-21-2013, 01:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Toronto outhit the Islanders 40 to 25. The Islanders got hit 3 extra times today by Winnipeg. Doesn't seem like the fisticuffs Boulton and Carkner brought to the table Thursday against Toronto slowed them down or altered their plan of taking the body. Nor would it have changed the mentality of Winnipeg today. One thing is for sure.... Boulton isn't making the pass to Martin today for that 3rd goal like Joensuu did, in fact my money says he doesn't even get to that puck.

And to be brutally honest, Winnipeg AND Toronto looked ridiculous out there getting beat to the puck, taking themselves out of position ALL night by going for hits instead of playing the puck. The Islanders had both of these teams chasing them around for most of the last 2 games.

So yes I guess we can agree to disagree. You are always going to play teams like Toronto and Winnipeg and Philly etc. They are not going to change their gameplans ever, They are going to run you all night, and having Carkner, Boulton or Mike Tyson in the line-up is not going to have them back-off one iota, it's the biggest myth going.

Whats not a myth, playing 18 guys a night and two guys that really hurt you more than help you but are out there strictly to play policeman is going to hurt you in the long run. Over time its hard playing 18 against 20. I suspect thats why both of those space-wasters were in the press box watching the team win a playoff game this afternoon.
You're implying that all hits are the same..... I disagree.

Another thing I'll touch on is the fact that all night long Winny was in the crease. Every time they had control in the zone, there were two Jets right on the doorstep. That didn't happen in Toronto.... and it's one area where Carkner clearly excels at over anyone else we have on the roster. He makes people pay the price if they're going to stand there.

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04-21-2013, 01:55 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Toronto outhit the Islanders 40 to 25. The Islanders got hit 3 extra times today by Winnipeg. Doesn't seem like the fisticuffs Boulton and Carkner brought to the table Thursday against Toronto slowed them down or altered their plan of taking the body. Nor would it have changed the mentality of Winnipeg today. One thing is for sure.... Boulton isn't making the pass to Martin today for that 3rd goal like Joensuu did, in fact my money says he doesn't even get to that puck.

And to be brutally honest, Winnipeg AND Toronto looked ridiculous out there getting beat to the puck, taking themselves out of position ALL night by going for hits instead of playing the puck. The Islanders had both of these teams chasing them around for most of the last 2 games.

So yes I guess we can agree to disagree. You are always going to play teams like Toronto and Winnipeg and Philly etc. They are not going to change their gameplans ever, They are going to run you all night, and having Carkner, Boulton or Mike Tyson in the line-up is not going to have them back-off one iota, it's the biggest myth going.

Whats not a myth, playing 18 guys a night and two guys that really hurt you more than help you but are out there strictly to play policeman is going to hurt you in the long run. Over time its hard playing 18 against 20. I suspect thats why both of those space-wasters were in the press box watching the team win a playoff game this afternoon.

Wow are there some uninformed posters on this site. Again, you have never stepped foot on the ice to play any form of competetive hockey by the way you speak.
Intimidation plays a huge role in the game, and if you have a team that is dressing 3 HW goons while your team has no one to counter that it factors how the rest of the team even goes about playing, they might play scared, scared of finishing checks because the other team has big boys and getting intimidated by the goons.
If you actually played you would understand that! Thats why Boulton and Carnker were in against the Leafs.

The reason why Boulton and Carnker were not in the line-up against a team like the Jets is because the Jets dont dress 3 HW goons and dirt bags like dion like the Leafs do! Is that to hard to understand? Your theory that dressing a team like NHL 13 video game is just not reality.

Again I will take the PLAYERS, EX PLAYERS, COACHES THAT HAVE ACTUALLY PLAYED THE GAME ANYDAY OF THE WEEK OVER YOUR UNINFORMED OPINION!

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04-21-2013, 01:59 PM
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Big effing deal? So the rest of our top 6 defense splits the other 5 minutes, and a couple RW's get double shifted a few times during the game.

A team like Montreal is a prime example that you need guys that are willing to fight. Last year they were weak and had no grit in the lineup..... they paid for that in the standings by being one of the worst teams in the league. This year they added Prust, Armstrong, Boullion and Moen with basically no changes to the roster and they're a two seed.

Teams play loose when they know there's some muscle in the lineup to protect them. That a fact that is proven over and over.... stated by the players and reinforced by the GMs of the league that add that aspect to their teams.
You will never get the uninformed posters to accept this despite 100's upon 100's of ex players, coaches, current players ect that talk about how important that role is needed, but you wont get the know it alls to admit they are uniformed.

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04-21-2013, 02:36 PM
  #61
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You're implying that all hits are the same..... I disagree.

Another thing I'll touch on is the fact that all night long Winny was in the crease. Every time they had control in the zone, there were two Jets right on the doorstep. That didn't happen in Toronto.... and it's one area where Carkner clearly excels at over anyone else we have on the roster. He makes people pay the price if they're going to stand there.
You're correct. Carkner adds value by clearing the slot, though I would argue he is not what he was last year in that department. Be that as it may, he is the Islanders strongest defender in that facet of the game.

However, his weakness are so pronounced that they greatly overshadow any potential value add as far as crease-clearing and fisticuffs. At least in my opinion. There are lots of ways to look at it, I suppose it depends what your priorities are in a defenceman. For me, my 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority in a defenceman is sound play positionaly, keeping defenders to the outside, closing them off and not yielding high percentage scoring chances or causing breakdowns where the rest of the team defense has to slide and compensate for not closing off your man. As well as the ability to safely move the puck out of the zone or at least make the right read on clears.

Everything else to me is secondary as far as defenceman are concerned. It is why I have such an issue with Carkner, Finley, Streit and sometimes MacDonald.

I understand there are other areas that are important, but if the above are compromised, and are major liabilities in a player, I don't really care what else he can bring, he isn't worth it.

Just for a little incite on why I see things the way I do

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04-21-2013, 02:41 PM
  #62
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Wow are there some uninformed posters on this site. Again, you have never stepped foot on the ice to play any form of competetive hockey by the way you speak.
Intimidation plays a huge role in the game, and if you have a team that is dressing 3 HW goons while your team has no one to counter that it factors how the rest of the team even goes about playing, they might play scared, scared of finishing checks because the other team has big boys and getting intimidated by the goons.
If you actually played you would understand that! Thats why Boulton and Carnker were in against the Leafs.

The reason why Boulton and Carnker were not in the line-up against a team like the Jets is because the Jets dont dress 3 HW goons and dirt bags like dion like the Leafs do! Is that to hard to understand? Your theory that dressing a team like NHL 13 video game is just not reality.

Again I will take the PLAYERS, EX PLAYERS, COACHES THAT HAVE ACTUALLY PLAYED THE GAME ANYDAY OF THE WEEK OVER YOUR UNINFORMED OPINION!

You're really not worth responding to, as you have made it very clear you don't know how to speak to people or have a debate or compare conflicting ideas. AT least not in a constructive manor.

Here are a few things to remember:

You are not the only one that has played competitive hockey, so please get of your high horse, it really seems like it's your only argument to an issue. In addition to being wrong and misguided it comes across as extremely sad.

Second, This may shock you, but not everyone who has played the game of hockey has the same idea as to whats most important and don't all view the game the exact same way.

Third, Just because someone has a different opinion does not mean that the are uninformed or haven't played hockey.

Last and most importantly, nobody gives a rats *** that you were a high school hero. It was a long time ago, you're not an NHL player or an NY Islander. Nobody here cares. Talk to your kids about it some day, they will appreciate it more.

The only NY Islander/ NHL Player to post on HFBoards is Robbie Schremp, I mean he'll never admit it, but c'mon..... we know.

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04-21-2013, 02:50 PM
  #63
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You will never get the uninformed posters to accept this despite 100's upon 100's of ex players, coaches, current players ect that talk about how important that role is needed, but you wont get the know it alls to admit they are uniformed.
Again, they say it because its something that had always been said. Athletes aren't exactly known for critical thought. There are athletes who come out and say that goons are a waste of space. Justin Bourne straight up said a goon never intimidated him or made him play different, only hitters such as clutterbuck intimidated him.

I don't know why you claim people who are against goonery have never played. I played many sports. I was never ever intimidated in a team sport where i knew the other guy could fight. If their only role was to intimidate then i knew its one less guy i had to worry about beating us.

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04-21-2013, 03:45 PM
  #64
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You're correct. Carkner adds value by clearing the slot, though I would argue he is not what he was last year in that department. Be that as it may, he is the Islanders strongest defender in that facet of the game.

However, his weakness are so pronounced that they greatly overshadow any potential value add as far as crease-clearing and fisticuffs. At least in my opinion. There are lots of ways to look at it, I suppose it depends what your priorities are in a defenceman. For me, my 1st, 2nd and 3rd priority in a defenceman is sound play positionaly, keeping defenders to the outside, closing them off and not yielding high percentage scoring chances or causing breakdowns where the rest of the team defense has to slide and compensate for not closing off your man. As well as the ability to safely move the puck out of the zone or at least make the right read on clears.

Everything else to me is secondary as far as defenceman are concerned. It is why I have such an issue with Carkner, Finley, Streit and sometimes MacDonald.

I understand there are other areas that are important, but if the above are compromised, and are major liabilities in a player, I don't really care what else he can bring, he isn't worth it.

Just for a little incite on why I see things the way I do
I don't disagree with anything you said. Where I do disagree, is with the notion that you need all 6 defensemen in this mold. Carkner had two instances in that Toronto game that were cringe worthy..... the 1st goal where he was beaten on the outside (and creamed the guy in the process), and the penalty he took the following shift. But, in fairness to Carkner, the rest of the game he was pretty solid.

It's the same reason Pittsburgh dresses Deryk Engelland. These guys aren't depended on to be your shut down, or offensive specialists.... but they do serve an important function that permeates throughout the rest of your game.

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04-21-2013, 03:51 PM
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Again, they say it because its something that had always been said. Athletes aren't exactly known for critical thought. There are athletes who come out and say that goons are a waste of space. Justin Bourne straight up said a goon never intimidated him or made him play different, only hitters such as clutterbuck intimidated him.

I don't know why you claim people who are against goonery have never played. I played many sports. I was never ever intimidated in a team sport where i knew the other guy could fight. If their only role was to intimidate then i knew its one less guy i had to worry about beating us.
I reject the idea that these guys are "goons". To me, that word is applied to someone that is there just to fight, then sit on the bench for the other 55 minutes.

Carkner is a better defenseman than a lot of guys we've been trotting out there the last few years. Campoli, Gervais, Mottau etc..etc..

Boulton is good enough to get a regular shift on the fourth line, though he hasn't gotten the opportunity here, he was effective in this role when he was in Atlanta. That said, I don't object to the way he's used here.... as I love what our bunch of bottom sixers have brought to this team.

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04-21-2013, 06:29 PM
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I don't disagree with anything you said. Where I do disagree, is with the notion that you need all 6 defensemen in this mold. Carkner had two instances in that Toronto game that were cringe worthy..... the 1st goal where he was beaten on the outside (and creamed the guy in the process), and the penalty he took the following shift. But, in fairness to Carkner, the rest of the game he was pretty solid.

It's the same reason Pittsburgh dresses Deryk Engelland. These guys aren't depended on to be your shut down, or offensive specialists.... but they do serve an important function that permeates throughout the rest of your game.
Carkner was really solid when he was sitting in the box. That was by far the best part of his game.Anyone that was calling for him to be in that Jets game is out of his mind. The jets players would have skated around him like he was a cone.

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04-21-2013, 06:56 PM
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Carkner was really solid when he was sitting in the box. That was by far the best part of his game.Anyone that was calling for him to be in that Jets game is out of his mind. The jets players would have skated around him like he was a cone.
No one was calling for Carnker to be in against the jets, I dont know where you got that from.
The Jets are a fast team with no goons and their only fighter being Thorbourn who is not a goon.
Martin can easialy take care Thorburn if he startes something. No need for Carnker last night.

Boulton and Carnker were not needed to be in the lineup last night against the Jets because the Jets do not have a HW goon.

On the other hand Boulton and Carnker being in the line-up against the Leafs was the right move considering the Leafe were dressing 3 hw goons and dirt bags like dion.

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04-21-2013, 08:45 PM
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Second he gets out of here, you have an actual moment of truth from a guy like Parenteau and you find out he wasn't liked.
has this actually been reported or are you being hypothetical? i haven't read anything about parenteau not being liked in the locker room.

as to the topic on hand, i believe carkner can play #6 shifts, but boulton is not an nhl skater. he can fight yes (better than carkner, too) but he's a liability. enforcers are mostly irrelevant with the instigator. unless the owner is willing to eat the fines.

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04-21-2013, 10:10 PM
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has this actually been reported or are you being hypothetical? i haven't read anything about parenteau not being liked in the locker room.

as to the topic on hand, i believe carkner can play #6 shifts, but boulton is not an nhl skater. he can fight yes (better than carkner, too) but he's a liability. enforcers are mostly irrelevant with the instigator. unless the owner is willing to eat the fines.
No, I'm saying as soon as Roloson got shipped out you had guys like Parenteau coming out and saying that Roloson wasn't very much liked.

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04-21-2013, 10:31 PM
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Toronto outhit the Islanders 40 to 25. The Islanders got hit 3 extra times today by Winnipeg. Doesn't seem like the fisticuffs Boulton and Carkner brought to the table Thursday against Toronto slowed them down or altered their plan of taking the body. Nor would it have changed the mentality of Winnipeg today. One thing is for sure.... Boulton isn't making the pass to Martin today for that 3rd goal like Joensuu did, in fact my money says he doesn't even get to that puck.

And to be brutally honest, Winnipeg AND Toronto looked ridiculous out there getting beat to the puck, taking themselves out of position ALL night by going for hits instead of playing the puck. The Islanders had both of these teams chasing them around for most of the last 2 games.

So yes I guess we can agree to disagree. You are always going to play teams like Toronto and Winnipeg and Philly etc. They are not going to change their gameplans ever, They are going to run you all night, and having Carkner, Boulton or Mike Tyson in the line-up is not going to have them back-off one iota, it's the biggest myth going.

Whats not a myth, playing 18 guys a night and two guys that really hurt you more than help you but are out there strictly to play policeman is going to hurt you in the long run. Over time its hard playing 18 against 20. I suspect thats why both of those space-wasters were in the press box watching the team win a playoff game this afternoon.

You say "Toronto out hit the Islanders 40 to 25. The Islanders got hit 3 extra times today by Winnipeg. Doesn't seem like the fisticuffs Boulton and Carkner brought to the table Thursday against Toronto slowed them down or altered their plan of taking the body"
Yea so whats your point? Did Orr,Mclaren or Fraser even try to bully us the other night? The answer is no! Did they try intimidating our players?The answer is no.

It's no coincidence the 3 Toronto goons were quiet and did not try to bully our players, take runs at our guys ect when Carnker and Boulton were in the line-up against the leafs and thats the point you are missing.
Orr,Mclaren ands Fraser were not pulling their typical bullying of skilled players or running our skilled guys, hmm I wonder why.
It's because they know there are other guys on the other bench they are going to have to deal with if someone does something dirty.
If there was no Carnker or Boulton the other noght you can be rest assured that the 3 huge HW goons would have bullied us and try to intimidate us, thats a fact based on how Toronto has played all year.

If you have watched or know anything about Toronto you would know their goons have been bullying and roughing up skilled players all year long and always trying to flat out bully teams with intimidation.
Toronto has a team full of guys who take the body and hit so it should not come as a suprise that Toronto would have more hits then us.
Aside from the 3 HW goons toronto in Orr,Mclaren,Fraserwho play every night they also have alot of physical players who take the body and hit.
Besides for Martin,Hamonic,C-mac,Cizekas, Carnker and Boulton this team is filled with non physical/non hitting players who DONT TAKE THE BODY, so of course Toronto is going to out hit us.

You say " So yes I guess we can agree to disagree. You are always going to play teams like Toronto and Winnipeg and Philly etc. They are not going to change their gameplans ever, They are going to run you all night, and having Carkner, Boulton or Mike Tyson in the line-up is not going to have them back-off one iota, it's the biggest myth going."

Myth? Wrong! I guess all the Gm's and Coaches that employ these types of players have no idea what they are doing right? If your theory was correct these players would not be playing in the NHL but the fact is these players serve a role OR ELSE THEY WOULD NOT BE EMPLOYED!
I'll say it again, I will take the word of players,coaches,GM's,ex players and my own experience playing competitive hockey over someone like you that has never played .

You say " Whats not a myth, playing 18 guys a night and two guys that really hurt you more than help you but are out there strictly to play policeman is going to hurt you in the long run. Over time its hard playing 18 against 20. I suspect thats why both of those space-wasters were in the press box watching the team win a playoff game this afternoon"

You just dont get it. The reason Carnker and Bolton were not in the line-up against the Jets was because the Jets dont dress 3 HW goons, get that or is that to hard to understand? Jets dont realy have that many tough guys and the toughest guy they have is Thorburn who Martin can handle.

You say"
I suspect thats why both of those space-wasters were in the press box watching the team win a playoff game this afternoon"
The same "space-wasters" played the night before in Toronto in a playoff game and we won, so there goes that silly argument.

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04-21-2013, 10:42 PM
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http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl-312277

Former professional player writing in a setting where he doesn't have to go for the cliche worry about rocking the boat.

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Think of a guy like Nashville Predators winger Jordan Tootoo - as a skill guy, would I rather take a shift against him or George Parros(notes) of the Anaheim Ducks? It's a no-brainer. I'm not going to have to fight Parros, but I'm sure as hell not exempt from Tootoo's wrath.
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The sad part is, the thugs of the league are even less relevant come playoffs, which is the complete opposite of players who can time big hits, and throw a lot of them. You'd rather put Minnesota Wild forward Cal Clutterbuck(notes) on your playoff roster than Derek Boogaard, yet he makes $700,000 less than him this year because apparently GM's value having that nuclear option on the bench over troops that are actually armed.
It's a preposterous misjudgement of what matters in today's NHL.
I'm not sure if we'll ever see fighting fully weeded from hockey, but our skill guys know that they're already exempt from getting involved in anything too lopsided. They love to play those one-dimensional monsters, and won't even give them a second thought.
Physicality =/= guys who can fight.

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04-21-2013, 11:00 PM
  #72
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If you dont dress your goons in the playoffs, it is very likely another teams goon or middle weight will drop the gloves and start punching taveres, Moulson, grabner...take the instigator penalty and try and put fear into our skill players. Don't believe me? cHECK the video tapes of the Islanders Toronto series when GarY ROberts dropped his gloves and started pounding chysowski who does not fight. Why did he do it? the same reason the leafs put Peca in the hospital and Kenny Johnson head into the glass with a elbow...THEY COULD DO IT!! Cause we didnt dress any fighters besides eric carns until game six when they finnally realized they were getting bullied and dressed cummings. I hope garth snow remembers this if he was even on the team that year.

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04-21-2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
You're really not worth responding to, as you have made it very clear you don't know how to speak to people or have a debate or compare conflicting ideas. AT least not in a constructive manor.

Here are a few things to remember:

You are not the only one that has played competitive hockey, so please get of your high horse, it really seems like it's your only argument to an issue. In addition to being wrong and misguided it comes across as extremely sad.

Second, This may shock you, but not everyone who has played the game of hockey has the same idea as to whats most important and don't all view the game the exact same way.

Third, Just because someone has a different opinion does not mean that the are uninformed or haven't played hockey.

Last and most importantly, nobody gives a rats *** that you were a high school hero. It was a long time ago, you're not an NHL player or an NY Islander. Nobody here cares. Talk to your kids about it some day, they will appreciate it more.

The only NY Islander/ NHL Player to post on HFBoards is Robbie Schremp, I mean he'll never admit it, but c'mon..... we know.
You say "You are not the only one that has played competitive hockey, so please get of your high horse, it really seems like it's your only argument to an issue. In addition to being wrong and misguided it comes across as extremely sad.

Oh please, if you read any of my posts it's not my only argument. It's not just my experience playing competitive hockey that gives me this opinion, It's the 100's upon 100's of players ,ex players, coaches, GM's that agree with me.

Like I said earlier if your stance was so right and mine is so wrong then why do teams employ HW's and some teams carrying multiple HW's?

You say" In addition to being wrong and misguided it comes across as extremely sad.

Im wrong?
If I am wrong then so are all the GM's who employ these guys, the coaches who play these guys and the players who actually PLAY THE GAME who praise these guys are all wrong then too then?

You say" Last and most importantly, nobody gives a rats *** that you were a high school hero. It was a long time ago, you're not an NHL player or an NY Islander. "

Your right Im not an Islander or an NHL player but I have played competitive hockey and actually know what actually happens on the ice.
I have insite that some who have never played might not have. Im not boasting just telling my own experience to try to get others to understand, thats all.
Someone like you will never understand because you have never played the game. I can tell that with ease by your posting.

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04-21-2013, 11:11 PM
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Renbarg
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Originally Posted by lacunacoil777 View Post
If you dont dress your goons in the playoffs, it is very likely another teams goon or middle weight will drop the gloves and start punching taveres, Moulson, grabner...take the instigator penalty and try and put fear into our skill players. Don't believe me? cHECK the video tapes of the Islanders Toronto series when GarY ROberts dropped his gloves and started pounding chysowski who does not fight. Why did he do it? the same reason the leafs put Peca in the hospital and Kenny Johnson head into the glass with a elbow...THEY COULD DO IT!! Cause we didnt dress any fighters besides eric carns until game six when they finnally realized they were getting bullied and dressed cummings. I hope garth snow remembers this if he was even on the team that year.
Cairns was on the ice when Roberts went after Czerkawski! Humongous big deterrent right there. Roberts was so scared of the repercussions of what may happen going after a skill guy... so scared he went after a skilled guy? If guys are going to do that, they are going to do it anyway and won't be deterred by Heavy Weights on the ice or on the bench. The fact is that doesn't happen much anymore. And like I said, even if it does happen, there will not be a deterrent factor.


Last edited by Renbarg: 04-21-2013 at 11:22 PM.
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04-21-2013, 11:15 PM
  #75
Isles4ever82
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl-312277

Former professional player writing in a setting where he doesn't have to go for the cliche worry about rocking the boat.





Physicality =/= guys who can fight.
Bourne has his opinion and thats fine, but I would bet most players dont feel that way.
I can tell you there are 100' upon 100's of quotes of players from Wayne Gretzky praising Dave Semenko who was a goon and a terrible player to your average player saying how important these guys are.

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