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Carkner, Boulton, Martin, & C.MAC

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Old
04-22-2013, 12:23 AM
  #76
Renbarg
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Originally Posted by Isles4ever82 View Post
Bourne has his opinion and thats fine, but I would bet most players dont feel that way.
I can tell you there are 100' upon 100's of quotes of players from Wayne Gretzky praising Dave Semenko who was a goon and a terrible player to your average player saying how important these guys are.
And most of it is utter ****. Most of the sources of those quotes wake up saying: "you gotta be smart with the puck."

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04-22-2013, 12:33 AM
  #77
Isles4ever82
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Cairns was on the ice when Roberts went after Czerkawski! Humongous big deterrent right there. Roberts was so scared of the repercussions of what may happen going after a skill guy... so scared he went after a skilled guy? If guys are going to do that they are going to do it anyway and won't be deterred by Heavy Weights on the ice or on the bench. The fact is that doesn't happen much anymore. And like I said even if it does happen, there will not be a deterrent factor.
Terrible example. Toronto had so much more fire power then we did toughness wise that year. They bullied us like children, Cairns alone could not handle all the leafs toughness.
There was a reason after that series in the offseason the Isles toughened up by adding Jason Weimer,Arron Asham and Eric Godard to the team to counter the leafs.

At the time we played the leafs Cairns was our lone HW and the Leafs had Tie Domi,Wade Belak, Shane Corson along with dirt dag fighters Darcy Tucker and Gary Roberts even Mcabe was a dirt bag that series.
Why would Roberts care about Cairns? He has Domi, Belak or Corson to take care of Cairns. I dont think Roberts would have been running around that series if he did not have his HW goon buddies sitting next to him.

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04-22-2013, 12:53 AM
  #78
Isles4ever82
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
And most of it is utter ****. Most of the sources of those quotes wake up saying: "you gotta be smart with the puck."
You dont know that. Your just assuming thats what these players think because it's how you think.
Just like when Tavares,Capuano and Boyes flat out said those fights changed the momentum of the game your typical responce was "he's supposed to say that", no thats you assuming things you want so hard to to believe.

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04-22-2013, 01:11 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Isles4ever82 View Post
You dont know that. Your just assuming thats what these players think because it's how you think.
Just like when Tavares,Capuano and Boyes flat out said those fights changed the momentum of the game your typical responce was "he's supposed to say that", no thats you assuming things you want so hard to to believe.
No, I'm saying I have a hard time believing anything any athlete says when he talks in cliches and says the same old bull.

Its the athletes that expound on their thoughts, or offer critical thought that often go against many of these mindless cliches

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04-22-2013, 01:14 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Isles4ever82 View Post
Terrible example. Toronto had so much more fire power then we did toughness wise that year. They bullied us like children, Cairns alone could not handle all the leafs toughness.
There was a reason after that series in the offseason the Isles toughened up by adding Jason Weimer,Arron Asham and Eric Godard to the team to counter the leafs.

At the time we played the leafs Cairns was our lone HW and the Leafs had Tie Domi,Wade Belak, Shane Corson along with dirt dag fighters Darcy Tucker and Gary Roberts even Mcabe was a dirt bag that series.
Why would Roberts care about Cairns? He has Domi, Belak or Corson to take care of Cairns. I dont think Roberts would have been running around that series if he did not have his HW goon buddies sitting next to him.
Why was Roberts not deterred from going after Czerkawski when Cairns was out on the ice with a 6-1 Islanders lead? Would Roberts be more deterred if Asham was on the bench? Or if Cummings was on the ice? How/Why?

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04-22-2013, 01:17 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by AndThereGoesGrabner View Post
I'm not comparing Carkner/Boulton to Shanny or Holmstrom, just talking about that element. BUT YOUR TOO MUCH INTO YOURSELF TO HAVE A REAL CONVERSATION!
No, you just dont understand goons suck. McDonald and Martin and Nystrom ect can take shifts and not be a traffic cone incarnate.

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04-22-2013, 02:00 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Why was Roberts not deterred from going after Czerkawski when Cairns was out on the ice with a 6-1 Islanders lead? Would Roberts be more deterred if Asham was on the bench? Or if Cummings was on the ice? How/Why?

I agree and to be fair You can always find examples of guys running a player when a HW is on the ice.
Im not saying this never happens of course it does.
You are right in a sence that some players will still play dirty with an enforcer in the lineup im not debating that.
The point im trying to make is that when you have those types of guys on the roster your more likely to see less cheap shots on our young guys.
Your never going to stop or deter every dirtbag out there but the hw pressence is still a factor.
Just look at the last 2 years since we started dressing HW's.

Remember about 3 years or so ago when we dressed the sofest lineup in the NHL with no enforcer? We were bullied , manhandled, and cheap shots, guys being ran. I mean how many time was Tavares and our younger guys just bullied and getting ran.
I have noticed since last year when we started to dress an enforcer the Tavares cheapshots stopped as well as our other guys not getting bullied.
Now with the addition of Boulton and Carnker we have not seen this team being bullied,pushed around,manhandled this year like we have been in the past.

I did not want Boulton or Carnker in against soft teams I tottally agree with that, there is no need for them when we play soft teams, but playing against Toronto who bullies skill players all year long while dressing 3 massive HW goons iI just dont get how you dont put those guys in that leaf came to counter the Orr's,Mclarens and Fraser.
Intimidation is a huge factor, if your sitting on the bench looking over at the other bench and you see a bunch big mean HW's while you look down your bench and see a bunch of soft players you damn well beleive that intimidation plays a role in the NHL any player,coach ect will tell you that at any level of hockey.


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04-22-2013, 03:04 AM
  #83
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This is a perfect example of why you needed Boulton and Carnker in the line-up against the leafs. They are bullies and goons that have no problem sucker punching skill players and fighting skill players.

Take a look at some of these clips and tell me it was not a good Idea to dress Carnker and Boulton.

He are some of Orrs goonery on skill players.

Orr Runs a Montreal player then drops a sucker punch a non fighter Rene Bourque that floored him to the ice with one shot. Then at the same time 6'4 goon McLaren goes after and fights non fighter Josh Gorges.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-I0dFW9FTo

Here is orr cross checking skill player Mike Green in the face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nURGz2zTw4Y

Here is Orr going after Alexander Ovechkin and cross checking him in the face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ix_qWmZW54

Here is orr going after skill player 6'0 195lb Matt Cullen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeiPFGHbByU

Colton Orr goes after Mike Richards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6NkRmxo3Hs


This is why Carnker and Boulton were needed when you play against teams that dress these kinds of players. Orr and the Leafs are goons and bullies and wont hesitate to run a skill player,sucker punch a skill player, fight a skill player and cross check skill players and non fighters in the face. This is why Carnker and Boulton were in against Toronto. I dont know why this is so hard for some on here to get.

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04-22-2013, 04:59 AM
  #84
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We were dictating the play early but they were throwing their weight around also. I guess it's a catch 22 with Carkner for a few reasons that were mentioned.

+ Toughness and Size
- Slow and when he fights you lose a defenseman.

I would say it's pick your poison.

What we need is a big physical defenseman and then you could dress Boulton when needed but that is not a option at this point. This however should be one of our off season needs. With Streit most likely leaving for his last pay day maybe we can sign 1.
Is Donovan very physical btw?

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04-22-2013, 07:37 AM
  #85
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We were dictating the play early but they were throwing their weight around also. I guess it's a catch 22 with Carkner for a few reasons that were mentioned.

+ Toughness and Size
- Slow and when he fights you lose a defenseman.

I would say it's pick your poison.

What we need is a big physical defenseman and then you could dress Boulton when needed but that is not a option at this point. This however should be one of our off season needs. With Streit most likely leaving for his last pay day maybe we can sign 1.
Is Donovan very physical btw?
Donovan VERY physical? No. But he is strong and has a solid frame. Very strong on his skates and will initiate contact when needed. He has real improved on clearing the crease but more in the new way ( denying entry passes to the prime scoring areas in front of the net and clearing them safely) as opposed to the traditional brute strength style. Donovan has good hand eye and strong skater, very smart. Won't get pushed around often but not a bruiser.

Also its not the amount of hits but how effective they are. Little Thomas hickey put a more effective check on a premier pf evander kane. It was more effective than any of the 90 hits Toronto and Winnipeg put on the isles this week. Its more about being strong on your skates, being smart and letting the game come to you and being fearless rather than being an over aggressive wrecking ball prone to making mistakes. See the failed close off by clitsome on McDonald and bonehead pursuit of McDonald in the corner by bogosian leaving grabbed all alone to score. Just for going for the hit.

Hickey and Donovan fall into the smarter category.


Last edited by InformTheMasses: 04-22-2013 at 07:44 AM.
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