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What do we do with Craig Smith?

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Old
04-22-2013, 08:36 AM
  #26
predwings
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It's the Trotzian system, it kills offensive play-making and requires you to pound it out to grind a score. This system does not fit Craig Smith or Fillip Forsberg either, love Trotz and what he's done but I don't think we'll ever have an elite scorer until we switch up the development staff and coaching staff.

Trotz destroyed poor Legwands abilities to score, and he'll do the same to FF and Smith if given enough time. We have about 5 people on the ice that pass first before shooting and 1 goalie. We need 1-2 good passers and 3-4 people attacking the net.

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04-22-2013, 08:37 AM
  #27
CraigsGotHandles
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If Craig can ever figure out how to get the puck out of our zone without an ugly turnover, he could be very solid. For a team so lacking in the scoring department, I've been surprised at all the hate I see on a kid with the offensive upside he has. He has a lot of elements of his game that need work, but the dude is in his second season and he came in without a camp. I think we can pardon him for not making much progress this season.

Some might argue that he has regressed, but the entire team this year was plagued with issues that had to have made it tough for young players to produce. His stats last season were inflated by a quick start, something I think speaks to the potential he has, but there's no denying his production took a step back. By all the accounts I've read he's a hard worker and I think he deserves a little time to iron out his game before the fan base gives up on him.

He's probably not going to be a PPG type and his offense will be slower to develop here since he will have to focus so much on improving his two-way game, but he could still be a very good piece for this franchise in the future if we have some patience. I don't know when it started but something about this team sucking for a year has got everyone thinking that good players are supposed to be all stars from their first game in the NHL onwards. Craig smith, at the ripe old age of 23, is far from the wrong side of the hill, and if we move him, unless its for great value, I think the franchise would regret it.

And kid is better at shootouts than literally anybody ever on the team. Nobody I'd rather see with the puck on his stick in a breakaway scenario.

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04-22-2013, 08:47 AM
  #28
deanwormer
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Smith always leaves me scratching my head. I see the talent, I see the hustle and work - sometimes; other times he just seems to be out there - someone put it gliding ala Brett Hull - that seems kinda' right. So, his game - today - doesn't really fit.

However...... 2 things - we've seen the potential, speed, quick shot, moves, etc., and we have had players like this actually be productive in Nash. Not very often, but, I would argue the Arnott line had plenty of this over the years - and the only forechecking I remember PK doing was going down there and then diving. Not suggesting Smith is anywhere close to those guys yet - but he's certainly shown the potential to be as good as any of those guys, except maybe PK.

So - methinks we live with the fact that he's gonna' be terribly overpaid next year, but if we want him to develop, we put him with some skill players and see what we got, without dogging him on the screwups (or more, the lack of moving legs and digging) so much that he ends up like a whipped puppy with his tale between his legs.

Just don't see how we can give up on him at 23; and really, next year we aren't gonna' be so hot anyway - be the perfect year to give him some space and talented linemates and see what happens.

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04-22-2013, 09:07 AM
  #29
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The bottom line as far as the Preds go and I guess the fans as well is development of top 6 offense and still be able to make the playoffs. Smith was a far cry from a blue chip prospect. Someone said mediocre in college and that is a true statment. The fact he was selected in the 4th is little consolation. Any player picked after the top 15 picks requires a good deal of development. NHL teams loaded with young guys will take 3 or 4 years to make it back to playoffs typically. How many developing players does have an impact on the length of time it takes to get back to post season play. The ability of a team to develop these players has an impact also.

At this point Developing players that are likley to be on the roster next year, FF, Smith, Borque, Wilson, Beck, Blum, Ellis, Bartley, and the 1st round pick in 2013. If that is the direction DP and Trotz wish to go there tenure in Nashville is going to end soon. It does appear that will be the direction and most of the people here will be screaming like a banshiee next Christmas when the team is not in a playoff position and be calling for Trotz head.

Now in 3 or 4 years these players could develop into a solid offense not a Hawks dominate offense but adquate for Trotz system to win again. Will Smith be part of it maybe, but to this point he has not shown anything that supports it. Either last year was an abboration or this season has been for him. But looking at his body of work nothing supports that he could be a 20 goal scorer in the NHL year in and year out.

Now most will not agree and opinie how good the team will be next year. But without a couple legit top 6 veterans this team will struggle badly

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04-22-2013, 09:17 AM
  #30
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The guy has good skill and has drive. Go look at his stickhandling at last year's all star game and think if anyone on our squad can do that.

The guy plays like he's afraid to make a mistake. He's been Trotzed.

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04-22-2013, 09:43 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
The guy has good skill and has drive. Go look at his stickhandling at last year's all star game and think if anyone on our squad can do that.

The guy plays like he's afraid to make a mistake. He's been Trotzed.
If Wilson can figure out how to score and still play responsibly, so can Smith. he needs time, and focus.

its a shame we cant send him tp Milwaukee for the playoffs

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04-22-2013, 09:58 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
its a shame we cant send him tp Milwaukee for the playoffs
Why can't they? The Preds season ends on Saturday which would mean he misses the first two games (I would probably let him play in Detroit on Thursday and then send him to Milwaukee in time for Friday's game) but he's still on his ELC and two way contract so he can be sent down.

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04-22-2013, 10:04 AM
  #33
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Smith needs to learn the lesson that Wilson finally learned. If you play within the system, success can be had. In order to succeed in any system you have to follow it. Otherwise you leave yourself or linemates out to dry and in the wrong position. Wilson would free lance a little too often and he finally admitted that. Once he played in the system look at the success he was having before the injury. Smith can do the same thing. He has the skill he just needs to use the system and his line to his advantage.

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04-22-2013, 10:35 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
Why can't they? The Preds season ends on Saturday which would mean he misses the first two games (I would probably let him play in Detroit on Thursday and then send him to Milwaukee in time for Friday's game) but he's still on his ELC and two way contract so he can be sent down.
Was he on Milwaukees clear day roster? If not, he cant go down for the playoffs.

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04-22-2013, 10:36 AM
  #35
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There is no clear day roster anymore.

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04-22-2013, 11:06 AM
  #36
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This is a tough one. He will be hard to move because of his salary. As I have mentioned before, not sure why Preds were in a rush to sign him last summer. Without all your injuries, he may have had time to develop in Milwaukee, but too few bodies for that.
As many have stated, other than the first half of the season, he has been ineffective to say the least.
I do not compare Smith/Wilson, as they are 2 completely different players. Smith has speed and shoots.....(good in shoot out). In my opinion, Wilson sees the ice extremely well, makes plays, and shoots usually when no other options.
Defensively , and I know stats are not everything, but there is a 36 + - difference
Wilson - over 2 seasons +14 + both seasons
Smith - over 2 seasons -22. - both seasons
I hope that somehow he can turn his game around next season, as some of the other forwards, ie: Kostsitsyn ( there's a new thread What to do with Kostitsyn) who is making more $ than his play this season.
Both might be hard to move, but stranger things have happened.

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04-22-2013, 11:27 AM
  #37
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Be patient

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04-22-2013, 11:30 AM
  #38
PredsV82
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
There is no clear day roster anymore.
really? well, then is he subject to waivers, or does that not matter if the preds season is over?

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04-22-2013, 11:37 AM
  #39
triggrman
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To me, he's like Orszagh. You can see the talent at times just can't put it together.

He might end up a productive NHLer, I wouldn't be shocked either way.

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04-22-2013, 11:42 AM
  #40
BigFatCat999
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HE'S IN HIS SOPOMORE YEAR! DUMP THE BUM!!!!


It's so damn repetitive that you can set a techno beat to it.

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04-22-2013, 12:01 PM
  #41
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predwings View Post
It's the Trotzian system, it kills offensive play-making and requires you to pound it out to grind a score. This system does not fit Craig Smith or Fillip Forsberg either, love Trotz and what he's done but I don't think we'll ever have an elite scorer until we switch up the development staff and coaching staff.
I'm sorry, when did Forsberg become a fancy dangling playmaker?

The guy's a budding power forward. He aspires to be a Rick Nash. Now tell me with a straight face that a Rick Nash skillset wouldn't fit on this team.

I dunno about Smith, but I figure all he has to do is learn to forecheck and backcheck with consistency and he'll be fine. All kids have growing pains like that. We had similar worries about Calvert up here and now he's doing just fine.

* * *
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HE'S IN HIS SOPOMORE YEAR! DUMP THE BUM!!!!


It's so damn repetitive that you can set a techno beat to it.
Up here, it's after any free agent's third year. That's about 80% of why RJ Umberger went from "fan favorite and team MVP" to "locker room cancer who needs to be traded or bought out" in the space of three months.

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04-22-2013, 03:18 PM
  #42
worstfaceoffmanever
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Just for comparison's sake:

107 Games
10 goals
31 assists
41 points
-20

That would be Marty Erat's first two seasons in the league.
We also threw Erat under the bus his second year, to which he responded very well. The rest is history. I believe Smith is subject to waivers based on a combination of age and games played (but that might have changed in the new CBA), so we don't really have that luxury and certainly won't have the luxury of paying him $2M to play in Milwaukee next year.

If an opportunity for an upgrade comes along, I have no qualms with trading Smith, but I think next year will be the year where he has to start showing progress or get shipped out. He has only gone backwards from his fantastic opening few weeks in the NHL. He has just 20 points in 75 NHL games from the start of 2012.

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04-22-2013, 03:46 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
Smith needs to learn the lesson that Wilson finally learned. If you play within the system, success can be had. In order to succeed in any system you have to follow it. Otherwise you leave yourself or linemates out to dry and in the wrong position. Wilson would free lance a little too often and he finally admitted that. Once he played in the system look at the success he was having before the injury. Smith can do the same thing. He has the skill he just needs to use the system and his line to his advantage.
Good coaches change up their system to the players they have.

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04-22-2013, 03:53 PM
  #44
triggrman
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Good coaches change up their system to the players they have.
Trotz has adjusted his system many times.

And jlsg's statement would hold true no matter what system was used, you can't freelanc a system.

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04-22-2013, 04:49 PM
  #45
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Good coaches change up their system to the players they have.
I'm wondering just how many "savior forwards" that Trotz has "ruined" by systemic overapplication* are still producing in the NHL.

I mean, okay. Rich Peverley is a given. Is there anyone else at all?


*: yeah, yeah. **** grammar. I wanna be sesquipedalian.

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04-22-2013, 05:08 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I'm wondering just how many "savior forwards" that Trotz has "ruined" by systemic overapplication* are still producing in the NHL.

I mean, okay. Rich Peverley is a given. Is there anyone else at all?


*: yeah, yeah. **** grammar. I wanna be sesquipedalian.
hartnell?

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04-22-2013, 05:48 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
hartnell?
Doesn't count.... Hartnell was too hardheaded to be ruined by the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Trotz has adjusted his system many times.

And jlsg's statement would hold true no matter what system was used, you can't freelanc a system.
Agree completely on both counts. Not sure how you can't see the various adaptations over the years to both personnel and to the changes in the game itself. In fact, at least according to Trotz, part of our problem this year was a lack of training camp to implement various system changes.

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04-23-2013, 01:38 AM
  #48
dulzhok
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Yikes. Tough crowd.

Just going to do a little comparison here between two Badgers less than a year in age apart from each other and how their college numbers look.

Player 1: 82 games, 27 goals, 49 assists

Player 2: 81 games, 21 goals, 66 assists

I'll let you guys figure out who those players are.
Danny Heatley? No, way better numbers.

Darren Haydar? 76 points in 40 games as a senior (Smith's 2nd year was his effective senior year).

His numbers are decent for a senior, but far from tearing up league like true college/NHL scorers have done as freshman (Heatley, St Louis, Kariya, etc). And there have been many who put up great numbers in college (i.e. Haydar) which haven't amounted to anything in the NHL.

I personally don't care if he's the next Peverly (which I think he could be). Peverly has one season over 20 goals, and he was getting a lot of prime-time icetime. Not a good top 6 player on a contending team.

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04-23-2013, 08:08 AM
  #49
AdmiralsFan24
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Danny Heatley? No, way better numbers.

Darren Haydar? 76 points in 40 games as a senior (Smith's 2nd year was his effective senior year).

His numbers are decent for a senior, but far from tearing up league like true college/NHL scorers have done as freshman (Heatley, St Louis, Kariya, etc). And there have been many who put up great numbers in college (i.e. Haydar) which haven't amounted to anything in the NHL.

I personally don't care if he's the next Peverly (which I think he could be). Peverly has one season over 20 goals, and he was getting a lot of prime-time icetime. Not a good top 6 player on a contending team.
Player 1 is Smith, Player 2 is Derek Stepan. Granted Stepan had more assists than Smith but Stepan also didn't play in 2010-11 when it was a very young team that lacked any type of decent scoring options other than Smith (who obviously can't assist himself), Schultz, Gardiner (both defensemen) and Mark Zengerle with a little less than a point per game. In Smith's last year there were no 50 point scorers (Schultz led with 47, Smith was next with 43 and Gardiner had 41). Zengerle had 36 points but was a freshman.

Compare that to Stepan's final year when he had Michael Davies (52 points), Brendan Smith (52 points) Geoffrion (50 points), Smith (33 points) and Ben Street (30 points) there were plenty of scoring options to either score goals or in Stepan's case, get assists.

I'll sum it up with this. In Smith's final year the top 10 scorers averaged 28.5 points for the season. In Stepan's final year the top 10 scorers averaged 36 points. It may not seem like a lot but over the course of the college hockey season that's a huge number.

My main point is you can't really call Smith a mediocre scorer in college when as a freshman he was stuck behind Stepan and Geoffrion as a 3rd line center and then the next season he had guys like Stepan, Geoffrion, Smith (50 point scorers the season before), Street (30 point scorer) and then Mitchell and McDonagh on defense leave the team. Three really high quality scorers, plus a good scorer and two good offensive defensemen at the college level leaving is going to hurt the offense the following season yet Smith was still able to get a little over a point per game with a lack of offensive talent other than Schultz and Zengerle.

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Old
04-23-2013, 08:34 AM
  #50
Top 6 Spaling
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Unless a GM or two vastly over-rates him, his value to us is greater than to another team. If we get a sweet offer (AKA Smith+ for an upgrade) we have to look at it, but there's no reason to buy him out or move him for a 4th or anything.

Patience.

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