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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

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Old
04-21-2013, 08:31 PM
  #626
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Completely agree with BB. We have looked better, but let's not forget, we won 2 games in which we bounced the other team out of the playoffs, and one game against a team that was eliminated 2 weeks ago.

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04-21-2013, 08:43 PM
  #627
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Completely agree with BB. We have looked better, but let's not forget, we won 2 games in which we bounced the other team out of the playoffs, and one game against a team that was eliminated 2 weeks ago.
...beat the Isle, Leafs, Pens, Jets, 8-2-1 in their last ten....

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04-21-2013, 08:52 PM
  #628
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Panthers
Sabres
Devils

Plan the parade routes.
Yeah everyone averages 6 goals a game against those teams

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04-21-2013, 09:00 PM
  #629
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...beat the Isle, Leafs, Pens, Jets, 8-2-1 in their last ten....
Yeah. I still see problems, especially in the D zone, where we collapse way too much, use the walls way too frequently, and are very much prone to spending entire shifts running around like chickens with our heads cut off. However, our breakouts have been a lot better. Could improve, but we've become decent in that regard.

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04-21-2013, 11:35 PM
  #630
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8-2-1 in our last 11 games, and our system is built for the post season. This year's team right now looks better and has more depth than last year's team. Nash is the game breaker we lacked last year in the playoffs.

Torts takes too much flak from people on this board, who conveniently forget that he played a part in us getting to the ECF last year, and we were 2 goals away from the finals. People like to say "oh he's only successful here because of Hank etc."...name me a coach that has had success in this league without a solid goaltender?

Give the man some credit when we win, his recent line combos appear to be working. Let's hope he keeps them together.

Reinforcements are on the way in the form of Staal and Dorsett. If we draw Washington, Winnipeg, or Boston in the 1st round...I like our chances a lot. Gotta avoid Pittsburgh, and Montreal (even though I think they'll end up with the 4th and we won't see them).

LGR

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04-21-2013, 11:45 PM
  #631
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We were 1 goal away from Game 7, not the SCF. Even still, I think we would have won in the garden for game 7 but lost to L.A

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04-22-2013, 12:10 AM
  #632
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We were 1 goal away from Game 7, not the SCF. Even still, I think we would have won in the garden for game 7 but lost to L.A
we were probably the only team that could have actually put up a fight in the SCF last year... Devs only went as far as they did because Marty decided it was time to turn on God mode one last time... Beyond that the devils were a complete embarrasment of the eastern conference, and did not deserve that spot... They should have lost to the panthers in the first round if you ask me

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04-22-2013, 12:11 AM
  #633
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just wondering was their a big difference with his style of coaching when he was with the lightning then right now? did he have that same grind it out mentality when he coached tampa bay? or was it different cause the players there were different? im just asking cause im not sure. i mean he won a cup with them in 2004, but was that team alot different then the rangers were last year?

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04-22-2013, 12:47 AM
  #634
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just wondering was their a big difference with his style of coaching when he was with the lightning then right now? did he have that same grind it out mentality when he coached tampa bay? or was it different cause the players there were different? im just asking cause im not sure. i mean he won a cup with them in 2004, but was that team alot different then the rangers were last year?
Do you remember 'safe is death'? That was Tortorella's approach when he first got here and that approach was very similar to how he coached back in Tampa Bay. Don't sit back. Don't sit on leads. Take chances and push for more goals. Safe is Death was heard so much that first half season or so...can't say for sure how long.

Eventually Torts realized the Rangers didn't have the talent to outscore their mistakes, and safe is death was quickly dropped and his approach grew into what we see today. Play it safe, dump it in deep, grind it behind the goal line, forecheck hard and wait for the other team to make the mistakes instead of us. Don't make high risk high reward plays. Always make the safer play.

There has definitely been a shift in his approach over the years.

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04-22-2013, 01:16 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by Grifter3511 View Post
Do you remember 'safe is death'? That was Tortorella's approach when he first got here and that approach was very similar to how he coached back in Tampa Bay. Don't sit back. Don't sit on leads. Take chances and push for more goals. Safe is Death was heard so much that first half season or so...can't say for sure how long.

Eventually Torts realized the Rangers didn't have the talent to outscore their mistakes, and safe is death was quickly dropped and his approach grew into what we see today. Play it safe, dump it in deep, grind it behind the goal line, forecheck hard and wait for the other team to make the mistakes instead of us. Don't make high risk high reward plays. Always make the safer play.

There has definitely been a shift in his approach over the years.
With the roster's that we've had the last few years it's easy to see why this is the case...

For a change, I think we have some solid material. I'm seeing alot less dump and chase and alot more "go after the puck" which is a solid shift for the team... He may now be realizing the actually has the talent he wants

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04-22-2013, 01:19 AM
  #636
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This thread = ****crickets****
Fine. He's still a crap coach and I still want him gone. Or am I supposed to be ecstatic that we just beat three non-playoff teams who have won a combined 11 of their last 30 games? Bottom line is, I'm just tired of saying the exact same things season after season. But nothing has changed my opinion from his earliest days here - I still think he's a sloppy coach. There are some things he does well and some things I like about him. But if I am honest with myself, I sincerely think he is a world class goalie away from missing the playoffs all but one of his seasons here, and the best goalie in the world is what has masked his glaringly poor coaching.

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04-22-2013, 01:20 AM
  #637
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I've never deviated on my opinion of Torts, and I have not had much reason to. I just get sick of making the exact same posts season after season, whether it’s April 2011 or April 2013:

April 2011

When the players do not take it upon themselves to deviate from the plan, this is an utterly simple offensive system to shut down. The forwards collapse too low, are isolated from utilizing the players on the point, so our forwards are generally playing a down low 3 on 5 in the offensive zone. The opposition's book on us is not complex. We don't effectively use all 5 players in the offensive zone, so collapse on our forwards and we generally won't score all too much. And our PP won't offset this because it looks like we never practice our PP. I'm not suggesting we have a Cup-caliber roster. But that's all the more reason for an effective offensive system that efficiently uses all 5 players in the offensive zone. It's all the more reason to drill fundamentals - like passing, breakouts, and play without the puck - into the players' heads. I mean ****, a well coached AHL team will generate more chances and create more rebounds than the Rangers. And that, to me, is an issue of a weak system and poorly executed fundamentals.

April 2013

I generally find this team's play in its own zone pretty bad, often resulting in poor outlet passes and weak transition. Offensive zone, I find myself screaming at my TV the amount of times no one is near or in front of the opposition's net. Long stretches where the D and forwards are not using one another in the offensive zone, and the forwards are on their own, playing 3 against 5. Watching our guys miss the net from 12 feet away. Passing and a PP so bad it looks like we never practice them.

This team, right now, is a poorly coached team and has been almost his entire tenure. Their fundamentals are deplorable: positioning is bad; passing, transition, and power play look like they are never practiced. Tortorella’s in game adjusting and decision making is mediocre to sub-par. There are also some highly questionable decisions that, as a former regional sales manager and hockey captain, I would never employ. If you're going to sit someone down for a talk, do it in the locker room and do it for ALL players playing poorly... don't single certain guys out, in public or in front of the press, and let others entirely off the hook. It's crap leadership 101 and it's a morale cancer.

I watch over 100 non-NYR games each season and see how other coaches do things. Most team's have much worse player personnel to work with, but play more cohesive hockey. I'll leave it at this. Lundqvist is ridiculously good, and his amazing play covers most of the mess of this team in the defensive zone. If not for Lundvist, this team misses the playoffs 3 of the 4 years Tortorella is here and Tortorella is very exposed.

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04-22-2013, 02:39 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by Laces out Dan View Post
I've never deviated on my opinion of Torts, and I have not had much reason to. I just get sick of making the exact same posts season after season, whether it’s April 2011 or April 2013:

April 2011

When the players do not take it upon themselves to deviate from the plan, this is an utterly simple offensive system to shut down. The forwards collapse too low, are isolated from utilizing the players on the point, so our forwards are generally playing a down low 3 on 5 in the offensive zone. The opposition's book on us is not complex. We don't effectively use all 5 players in the offensive zone, so collapse on our forwards and we generally won't score all too much. And our PP won't offset this because it looks like we never practice our PP. I'm not suggesting we have a Cup-caliber roster. But that's all the more reason for an effective offensive system that efficiently uses all 5 players in the offensive zone. It's all the more reason to drill fundamentals - like passing, breakouts, and play without the puck - into the players' heads. I mean ****, a well coached AHL team will generate more chances and create more rebounds than the Rangers. And that, to me, is an issue of a weak system and poorly executed fundamentals.

April 2013

I generally find this team's play in its own zone pretty bad, often resulting in poor outlet passes and weak transition. Offensive zone, I find myself screaming at my TV the amount of times no one is near or in front of the opposition's net. Long stretches where the D and forwards are not using one another in the offensive zone, and the forwards are on their own, playing 3 against 5. Watching our guys miss the net from 12 feet away. Passing and a PP so bad it looks like we never practice them.

This team, right now, is a poorly coached team and has been almost his entire tenure. Their fundamentals are deplorable: positioning is bad; passing, transition, and power play look like they are never practiced. Tortorella’s in game adjusting and decision making is mediocre to sub-par. There are also some highly questionable decisions that, as a former regional sales manager and hockey captain, I would never employ. If you're going to sit someone down for a talk, do it in the locker room and do it for ALL players playing poorly... don't single certain guys out, in public or in front of the press, and let others entirely off the hook. It's crap leadership 101 and it's a morale cancer.

I watch over 100 non-NYR games each season and see how other coaches do things. Most team's have much worse player personnel to work with, but play more cohesive hockey. I'll leave it at this. Lundqvist is ridiculously good, and his amazing play covers most of the mess of this team in the defensive zone. If not for Lundvist, this team misses the playoffs 3 of the 4 years Tortorella is here and Tortorella is very exposed.
There is very little pressure here in NY and on Torts right now, people starts to get upset if we move between the 17-20 overall positions in the standings.

We have a lineup of;
Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan;
Clowe-Brassard-Nash;
Pyatt-Richards-Zucc;
Kreider-Powe-Asham;
Girardi-Del Zotto
McD-Strålman
Emminger-Moore
Hank

last night. We have had Gabby. Boyle, Staal and JT Miller have been in there.

We are not going to have a much better roster than this next season, in two years, in three years or in five years. Looking around the league, save for at the most a handful of teams and if you are generous, we are very well off.

I mean, you cannot draw any other conclusion that we have failed miserably the last 5 years unless we are better than 10-15 in the NHL this and next season, and that we without any hesitation should sell of everyone we got and completely rebuild. If we don't even get into the top 10 after a 9 year rebuild, 1-2 years before we get cap problems for real, it did not work.

So I am definitely not thrilled about a late season surge to get into the PO's. We have been there and done that like 6-7 years ago in this rebuild. But Torts does a masterful job at directing the blame at everyone else. This season is nothing but a complete and utter disaster unless we make it to the conference final.

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04-22-2013, 06:27 AM
  #639
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Yeah everyone averages 6 goals a game against those teams
The game against Buffalo was easily the worst goaltending performance I have seen since the mid 1980s.

The Florida game you could see zero fight in the Panthers. They just wanted to get the season over with and get back to the beach.

The first period against the Devils Marty looked awful. The Devils picked it up later in the game but that wasn't much of a performance by NJ at all.



That said, the Rangers played a pretty amazing game against the Devils for a good 45+ minutes. It's amazing what a few easy wins can do to spark a team.

Will the spark last or fizzle out? That's the real question.

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04-22-2013, 06:58 AM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There is very little pressure here in NY and on Torts right now, people starts to get upset if we move between the 17-20 overall positions in the standings.

We have a lineup of;
Hagelin-Stepan-Callahan;
Clowe-Brassard-Nash;
Pyatt-Richards-Zucc;
Kreider-Powe-Asham;
Girardi-Del Zotto
McD-Strålman
Emminger-Moore
Hank

last night. We have had Gabby. Boyle, Staal and JT Miller have been in there.

We are not going to have a much better roster than this next season, in two years, in three years or in five years. Looking around the league, save for at the most a handful of teams and if you are generous, we are very well off.

I mean, you cannot draw any other conclusion that we have failed miserably the last 5 years unless we are better than 10-15 in the NHL this and next season, and that we without any hesitation should sell of everyone we got and completely rebuild. If we don't even get into the top 10 after a 9 year rebuild, 1-2 years before we get cap problems for real, it did not work.

So I am definitely not thrilled about a late season surge to get into the PO's. We have been there and done that like 6-7 years ago in this rebuild. But Torts does a masterful job at directing the blame at everyone else. This season is nothing but a complete and utter disaster unless we make it to the conference final.
I think you're erratic in your assessments. You're calling this a 9-yr rebuild when actually it technically wasn't. The Jagr era along with the Lundqvist era effectively abolished that in its true form. Especially the latter. We have a superstar goalie that keeps us competitive every game. Management saw this and capitalized. If this was not the case we most likely would have drafted top 3 talent.

John T. Has not been here for all 9 years so it's dishonest to pin this on him especially since he's taken us farther then his predecessor. I see this franchise building in front of lundqvist, which makes sense. Teams would kill to have a goalie like him, and you hint at selling it all off? Insanity.

We have a very good core, and we'll go outside if need be to bring in the final pieces as needed. As long as Lundqvist is here there will never be a full out bottom up rebuild, nor should their be.


# also... Saying this roster won't improve over the next few years totally discounts all of our promising prospects, including Kreider and Miller among others.... Many of which you were championing not too long ago...


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04-22-2013, 08:28 AM
  #641
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I think you're erratic in your assessments. You're calling this a 9-yr rebuild when actually it technically wasn't. The Jagr era along with the Lundqvist era effectively abolished that in its true form. Especially the latter. We have a superstar goalie that keeps us competitive every game. Management saw this and capitalized. If this was not the case we most likely would have drafted top 3 talent.
This assumes there is only one type of rebuild. In reality, the Rangers have gone through a competitive rebuild. Those tend to be much, much slower. But we're done with that. We were done with that 2 years ago. Now, the team is in a different mode.

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04-22-2013, 08:34 AM
  #642
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Considering we will most likely play either Montral, or Pittsburgh, on the road, I'm not exactly jumping for joy.

We beat up on teams that missed the playoffs, big deal. The Devils mailed it in two weeks ago, the Panthers are the worst team in the league, and Buffalo was an an aberration.

We are going to have our hands full, in the first round. I'm cautiously optimistic...but beating Pittsburgh in the first round will be an arduous task.

How much credit, if any, is Torts due for the current offensive outburst? I still think it has way more to do with the crap teams we played, more than anything else.

Skepticism aside, it seems as though we are building some real chemistry, and this is the right time of year to be peaking.


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04-22-2013, 08:48 AM
  #643
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Considering we will most likely play either Montral, or Pittsburgh, on the road, I'm not exactly jumping for joy.

We beat up on teams that missed the playoffs, big deal. The Devils mailed it in two weeks ago, the Panthers are the worst team in the league, and Buffalo was an an aberration.

We are going to have our hands full, in the first round. I'm cautiously optimistic...but beating Pittsburgh in the first round will be an arduous task.

How much credit, if any, is Torts due for the current offensive outburst? I still think it has way more to do with the crap teams we played, more than anything else.

Skepticism aside, it seems as though we are building some real chemistry, and this is the right time of year to be peaking.
Offensively, nothing looked different at all from previous games. You can just attribute the scoring outbursts to some of the most hilarious puck luck ever vs. Buffalo and the league worst defense in Florida.

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Old
04-22-2013, 09:08 AM
  #644
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This assumes there is only one type of rebuild. In reality, the Rangers have gone through a competitive rebuild. Those tend to be much, much slower. But we're done with that. We were done with that 2 years ago. Now, the team is in a different mode.
Yes agreed. I'm not sure if that's the mindset of the person i responded to though... people in general hold a "competitive rebuild" in contempt...

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04-22-2013, 09:19 AM
  #645
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Beating up, lesser teams this time of year is about what you should expect from a competitive playoff ready team. Had we won these games 2-1, OT, or shootout, people would be clamoring that we barely beat bottom feeders, so you can't win.

bottom line is, our best players are starting to become our best players at the right time. Not all of these goals were flukes either. Both the Panthers and Sabres played us fairly tight in the first periods.
I expect the same in the remaining 3 games. The NYR have to be mentally ready more than anything else. They have to play sharp and break the will of these teams early in the game, much like they have been doing...

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04-22-2013, 09:53 AM
  #646
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Beating up, lesser teams this time of year is about what you should expect from a competitive playoff ready team. Had we won these games 2-1, OT, or shootout, people would be clamoring that we barely beat bottom feeders, so you can't win.

bottom line is, our best players are starting to become our best players at the right time. Not all of these goals were flukes either. Both the Panthers and Sabres played us fairly tight in the first periods.
I expect the same in the remaining 3 games. The NYR have to be mentally ready more than anything else. They have to play sharp and break the will of these teams early in the game, much like they have been doing...
No offense NikC, but this sounds like a John Tortorella sound board. Speaking in platitudes doesn't change this teams systemic problems.

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04-22-2013, 10:08 AM
  #647
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The system sure does look a lot better when its working.

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04-22-2013, 10:16 AM
  #648
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The system sure does look a lot better when its working.
A)Was not too hard to look better than what they were 4 weeks ago.

B)It still looks horrible for long stretches of time against non playoff teams.

C)Does not matter as the playoffs are the real tale of the tape.

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04-22-2013, 10:19 AM
  #649
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I still believe that it would take a poor half season next year to see Tortorella fired, regardless of what happens here.

If I were Glenn, he'd be gone with a first round loss. I don't think this team this year is so linked to his style of game that he's irremovable any more.

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04-22-2013, 10:19 AM
  #650
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A)Was not too hard to look better than what they were 4 weeks ago.

B)It still looks horrible for long stretches of time against non playoff teams.

C)Does not matter as the playoffs are the real tale of the tape.
A) Personnel. I think you've got 18 position players that are all buying into the pitbull mentality for the first time all season.

B) Its looking less and less horrible as the season comes to an end, which is all I can hope for at this point.

C) I think a hot team entering the playoffs is just a little added bonus.

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