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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here)

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Old
04-22-2013, 03:10 PM
  #176
Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
This. SO MUCH COMMON SENSE MY BRAIN HURTS. Draft you are bang on buddy.
So when they threw huge money at guys like Havlat (less so than the others), Campbell, Huet and Hossa, it's because they were looking at the future?

Come on now. As soon as they saw an opportunity to compete, they started killing their ability to build from within for a chance at the cup.

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04-22-2013, 03:14 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
Trade Price to Calgary or Edmonton for their first overall pick.

Acquire Jonathan Bernier from LA for our own 1st round pick.

And of course, acquire some big nasty wingers and d-men
First off, CGY or Edm would have to give us a heck of a lot more than just their 1st overall pick.
Second, if you're not happy with Price, you'll be even less happy with Bernier.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
(my response isn't very neatly organized, sorry I didn't know how to shape it)


Bergevin decided to essentially throw away THIS season for the idea of success in upcoming seasons. Surely you don't disagree? When your two direct rivals shore up by picking up hall of famers, and in Pittsburgh's case making FOUR trades for established NHL players that means that our team either so surpassed Bergevin's vision that he thought we were better than the rest of the East even with the trades OR that we were still weak and he didn't want to sacrifice 2nd rounders for patchwork pickups.

So you buy or you sell.

He pulled a Gainey and did neither, in fact he extended the two players we should be getting phasing out (undersized, medium-talented players who need special roles and personalized ice-time) and sat on his bloody hands thinking that there would be no more injuries coming up. For the record Drewiskie is a crap hockey player who got surpassed by rookies every year for the past few years. He's not good, he's not okay, he's not even an established NHL player. He's literally the definition of a warm body and folks who have no idea what they're looking at see his average skating ability and think that means he's an adequate defenseman. He's not, he's awful physically and cannot read plays for his life. He chases the puck like a blind dog. He's not someone you can rely on for anything.

Neither is Bouillon, neither is Weber, neither is Pateryn or Beaulieu or Tinordi. I was clamoring to pick up an actual d-man from the start, someone like Klesla or JBo and this is exactly why. You don't need more soft-minute chumps who look good in spurts, you need the safe-20+min a night kinda guys who can soak in pressure and not embarrass himself. So what if Jbo was a 1st and some crap prospects? HE CAN HELP YOU WIN THE CUP. I just seems like after years of being beat up and shat on by the tougher teams in the league, our fanbase has gotten an inferiority complex where next season is gonna be the good one.

Gorges, Subban and Markov will bounce back, Diaz looks good but there isn't another NHL d-man on our team and that's Bergevin's failing. And it's bull that he "couldn't foresee" injuries. You have to be pro-active like Shero was, whose team is kicking ass even with all his starting players injured.

While small sample-size is true - we hadn't struggled or really been out-played until the deadline so no one really knew if this squad had the mettle to actually win through adversity - that's where foresight come in. Bergevin played it way too safe and left our fate in the hands of Pittsburgh and Boston. He let them decide the prices, he let them strengthen their teams, he let them call every shot. Rookie GM move and it really hurt us.

You can't say that there's always next year when it comes to a full season of winning- we were guaranteed a playoff spot, he should've revitalized the team with some pickups and played for the cup. You play the sport to win. You play for the cup every season. Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what goes on in a lockerroom: every pre-season every team and every player says the same thing: to make the playoffs and play for the cup. Next season with Markov older, Gionta weaker, Bouillon and Halpern 38 and potential sophomore slumps for Gally and Chucky do you think they'll perform BETTER with an 82-game schedule, road-trips out west and injury risks blocking shots for 82 games?

This season was a godsend and Bergevin betrayed it.
You should take a step back, maybe wash your face with some icy cold water, and chill da **** out.

You are being incredibly ridiculous and acting like an overly emotional teenage fan who's getting ready to hang himself because the GM didn't acquire one freaking Dman like JayBo (who's been playing rather average since joining CGY on a bad contract) at the deadline.

1- Bergevin didn't throw anything away. Perhaps he wasn't entirely convinced that this group are actual contenders. Maybe he thinks we need a lot more than just a JayBo to solidify ourselves as a contender. Maybe he feels like challenging for the cup in a shortened season just isn't good enough. Maybe he wants us to return to our dynasty ways. Maybe he wants to really evaluate what this current group of guys (that will be very similar to next year's) can actually do in the POs before trading picks and prospects away for rentals.
Bergevin took a very poised decision. We are still fighting for 2nd in the East, and he didn't give up. That's a loser's mentality. The guys got to the top of the division by themselves, I doubt they're in the room crying over not getting JayBo, or anybody else.
Boston and Pittsburgh won the cup in recent years. They're fully aware of what they have under their hands. As for us, we don't freaking know. Heck, I'd be ready to bet anything that you thought the Habs were at the very best a PO bubble team this year, and maybe you didn't even think they were gonna make the POs. Yet here you are pretending like you know best and crying over not selling assets for rentals because you now believe that the team who you thought was nothing more than mediocre can contend for the cup. Have you not learned anything from the past seasons?? Just a couple years ago we were red hot for the first half of the year and then collapsed, barely made the POs, and got swept in rd1.
Not even you know what type of team we really have. Maybe you should find out before making bigger moves.

2- Drewiske is a depth move. He looks like crap because he's used in a role he shouldn't play, at least not now. In any event, he also grabbed Halpern and Ryder, two great decisions. He would have picked up Sestito as well but the Nucks grabbed him first unfortunately. He was obviously in talks with certain teams, but wasn't willing to give up what was asked. So he didn't just sit on his hands.
Also, Gainey was here for 5 years, he had time to evaluate and change things to his liking but failed. Bergevin saw his team perform 36 times. Cut him some slack. But you're wrong, Gainey/Gauthier constantly traded picks away for some patch work.

3- I understand your point, you wanted to bring in some depth and size, like most fans. I don't disagree. But I'm not going to rant out as if Bergevin killed the season and the year because he opted not to trade away assets for rentals in after 36 games.

4- Pittsburgh is seeing their window close, little by little. It will be more difficult for them later on as guys like Orpik, Letang, Malkin, Kennedy, Kunitz will all need to be renegotiated with and likely get raises. There's also Crosby who's becoming an injury prone player and might be one concussion away from calling it quits (pure speculation from me, but considering the amount of time missed due to them in recent years, I believe it's a fair one). Not only that, but guys like Iginla and Morrow wanted to go to Pittsburgh. As I mentioned in the 1st point, they also know what they have under their hands, so it makes it a whole lot easier to say ''let's go for broke''.
Boston is going through their share of struggles. They've been slightly better than us.
Their trades brought them very little.

5- The point is not just to look at one or two years. It's to look over the long haul. I want us to be part of the Elite in the East (and NHL) for years to come, not have a little cinderella short season and then go back to PO bubble years. If that means not trading away picks for rental this year, so be it. Of course, this is assuming Bergevin will indeed turn us into a consistent elite team for years.

6- We've faced adversity before. We lost Diaz when he was a key player, Bourque was also lost for a long while when he was performing decently well. We lost Prust. We lost Armstrong. But we always kept winning. Now people think because we lost Emelin we're losing when in fact the whole team is just lost and our goalie can't stop a beach ball. We will bounce back from this slump the moment our goalies start making saves. We could have added three top 4 Dmen, if Price doesn't stop giving softies away multiple times within a game, we'd still be in this funk.

7- You can look at next year the way you want to. You can say the Gallys will struggle through a sophomore slump. I can say they will be better, in bigger roles, with more experience. Markov will be a year older, but he also will have gone through a first season back from injury, have some time off during summer, train to be back in even better shape next season. Bouillon could very well end up being our 7th Dman.
Halpern could be replaced via open market, Gionta is still good for 20-25 goals and could possibly be reduced to a 3rd line role. There will also be the summer to make trades or signings after establishing areas of need and improvement over the course of this current year.


So again, let's stop being over dramatic.


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 04-24-2013 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Do not circumvent the filter.
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Old
04-22-2013, 03:17 PM
  #178
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I also don't like the Desharnais and Bouillon signings. If Desharnais ends up being more of a sign and trade deal I'll forgive him for it but... you're right. The biggest thing for me is that he needs protected minutes to produce. If the plan is for him to play on our 3rd line in the future, I suppose I can live with it. As it stands now, I'd rather him be moved to improve another position.
So we agree.

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What I don't agree with is the fact that you believe now is the time to compete. It's possible that Bergevin believes that this team has a better chance to compete for the cup in a couple of years. Montreal has been trading picks and prospects to make it into the playoffs for the last 10 years, it hasn't worked. We've been a fringe team with some lucky bursts but surely not a contender.
Every year is the time to compete. I hate this concept of "windows". Good teams don't have windows, they have good season and bad seasons and then the GM has to risk assess and see how to build on it for the following season. At the time of the deadline we were having a fantastic season, we were playing like contenders. Now there are a bunch of reasons we've sputtered but picking up established NHL talent surely wouldn't have hurt and in fact, I argue, it would've reinvigorated our squad and brought a new energy.

Also, Chicago had HOSSA ON A 12 YEAR DEAL and CAMPBELL AND HUET. What are you talking about?!

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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
The Blackhawks were built through the draft and supported internally instead of bringing in aging expensive players for assets. This is what Bergevin was "raised" in. It just so happens that Chicago will likely be one of the best teams in the NHL for the next ~6-8 years. They've done a good job developing their prospects and retaining them. We haven't. We're still rebuilding, we're still looking to develop the core we have.
I don't disagree but extending Desharnais for FOUR YEARS, MIDSEASON implies that in Bergevin's sparkling blue eyes, he's a vital part of our core. An undrafted, undersized, underperforming non-centre. And what if we lose Ryder this off-season? What does our core look like then? Small non-physical forwards who mostly need protected minutes to produce... as per usual.

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Old
04-22-2013, 03:19 PM
  #179
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2- Drewiske is a depth move. He looks like crap because he's used in a role he shouldn't play, at least not now. In any event, he also grabbed Halpern and Ryder, two great decisions. He would have picked up Sestito as well but the Nucks grabbed him first unfortunately. He was obviously in talks with certain teams, but wasn't willing to give up what was asked. So he didn't just sit on his hands.
Couldn't agree more with this post. Drewiske looked very bad but it's because he's a depth guy who comes in once in a while to give some other guys a rest. MT had him playing with Markov on the 2nd pairing right after Emelin got hurt which was just nuts since that was way more than he is capable of doing

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04-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #180
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So when they threw huge money at guys like Havlat (less so than the others), Campbell, Huet and Hossa, it's because they were looking at the future?

Come on now. As soon as they saw an opportunity to compete, they started killing their ability to build from within for a chance at the cup.
They didn't give assets for those guys, that's the important thing about it. I'm sure that any people that wants to build through the draft wouldn't care if we get big names for nothing.

Wasting 2nd round picks for 10-20ish games of a player when you know you'll have a better team in the future is, on the other hand, the mistake we've been doing for years. The guys we'll draft with those pick may even hold more value when it will be te time to try to get a real big name.

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04-22-2013, 03:29 PM
  #181
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Let's be real , their is no physical top 6 foward available for resonable price.


Pacio-plekanec-ryder
Bourque-eller-gionta
Dd-agally-bgally

Is our top 9 next year.

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04-22-2013, 03:43 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Bieber fever View Post
Let's be real , their is no physical top 6 foward available for resonable price.


Pacio-plekanec-ryder
Bourque-eller-gionta
Dd-agally-bgally

Is our top 9 next year.
Not so sure that Ryder will be back.

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04-22-2013, 03:58 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
So we agree.



Every year is the time to compete. I hate this concept of "windows". Good teams don't have windows, they have good season and bad seasons and then the GM has to risk assess and see how to build on it for the following season. At the time of the deadline we were having a fantastic season, we were playing like contenders. Now there are a bunch of reasons we've sputtered but picking up established NHL talent surely wouldn't have hurt and in fact, I argue, it would've reinvigorated our squad and brought a new energy.

Also, Chicago had HOSSA ON A 12 YEAR DEAL and CAMPBELL AND HUET. What are you talking about?!



I don't disagree but extending Desharnais for FOUR YEARS, MIDSEASON implies that in Bergevin's sparkling blue eyes, he's a vital part of our core. An undrafted, undersized, underperforming non-centre. And what if we lose Ryder this off-season? What does our core look like then? Small non-physical forwards who mostly need protected minutes to produce... as per usual.
Well. Chicago, Campbell and Huet were all Free Agents, it didn't cost any assets. Now I don't agree with Desharnais being part of our core but it is a real possibility. It's only his second year in the NHL, might be a sophomore slump? That's something that needs to be dealt with. He's still a tradeable asset and worth more with a contract than as an RFA.

I don't think Ryder has ever been part of our "core". Impactful, yes, but not a core player. By looking at our young, core players you can see when we were made to compete and how we'll compete in the future. I see our core as having two separate "waves". First wave being Pacioretty, Eller, Price, Subban and even Desharnais and Gorges. The next wave is Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Tinordi, Beaulieu and potentially Leblanc/Kristo/Collberg. Desharnais and Gallagher are small, that's true but, Gallagher doesn't need protected minutes. None of the other players are under 6'1 or look to be anything but excellent players.

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04-22-2013, 04:03 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Bieber fever View Post
Let's be real , their is no physical top 6 foward available for resonable price.


Pacio-plekanec-ryder
Bourque-eller-gionta
Dd-agally-bgally

Is our top 9 next year.
I'd argue we have the inside track on signing Stalberg or Bickell. Both are physical players and will likely sign for 2.5-3.5mil. Would we rather over pay for a younger (likely to be 27-30) physical forward or over pay for an older, softer forward like Ryder(33)? If it were a choice between overpaying for Ryder for the next 4-5 years or bringing up Leblanc or Kristo, I'd definitely give the rookies a chance.

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04-22-2013, 04:16 PM
  #185
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Are they top 6 foward tho ? Imo bickell no and stalberg is boderline

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04-22-2013, 04:27 PM
  #186
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Are they top 6 foward tho ? Imo bickell no and stalberg is boderline
Likely aren't. I'd be okay with Stalberg filling in a top-6 role but not Bickell. Though, if Ryder gets a contract worth anything more than 4.5mil over 3yrs I would say he isn't worth it. It's one of those contracts that will severely handicap a team, especially when you have guys like Subban, Galchenyuk, Eller, and Gallagher all needing new contracts in the near future. For next year I think Gionta can still produce in a top-6 role, if not, Galchenyuk may be able to.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Stalberg

It's more like icing 3 2nd lines than putting out a 1-2-3. It may just change how the team operates, more evenly spread ice-time and more responsibility for the 3rd line. Would be good for Galchenyuk's/Eller's development.

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04-22-2013, 04:48 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Impossible Glory View Post
They didn't give assets for those guys, that's the important thing about it. I'm sure that any people that wants to build through the draft wouldn't care if we get big names for nothing.

Wasting 2nd round picks for 10-20ish games of a player when you know you'll have a better team in the future is, on the other hand, the mistake we've been doing for years. The guys we'll draft with those pick may even hold more value when it will be te time to try to get a real big name.
Except you don't have to get rentals to acquire players.

And yes, you're right, they didn't give up assets for them. They still had to ship out many elements of their contending team afterwards, though. And didn't exactly get top dollar for them either. While it's not flat out trading futures for vets, it's still the same result. And Bergevin was a part of that acceleration process.

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04-22-2013, 05:00 PM
  #188
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Except you don't have to get rentals to acquire players.

And yes, you're right, they didn't give up assets for them. They still had to ship out many elements of their contending team afterwards, though. And didn't exactly get top dollar for them either. While it's not flat out trading futures for vets, it's still the same result. And Bergevin was a part of that acceleration process.
It isn't the same result. They had a "wealth of riches" and a very stacked team that was too much for the cap. They didn't lose anything, their core stayed the same. Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa and Sharp are all still part of the team and they're still contending, as are most of their prospects. Adding players to a core doesn't take away from the team, they could have chosen to trade or sign different players then they did. Hossa could have been traded, Campbell/Byfuglien could have stayed, it was their choice. It's because they retained assets that they even had a choice. If you acquire a player for nothing and trade him for below market value or lose him for nothing, you've either broken even or benefited from it.

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04-22-2013, 05:12 PM
  #189
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Teams currently with open C spots in their top-9 or places where David Desharnais would be an improvement to their C depth:

STL
TBL
PHX
NSH
NJ
NYI
FLA
DAL
CGY
CHI
ANA
CAR

Somebody has gotta take him

I did this quickly so if there are teams that don't belong, let me know.

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04-22-2013, 05:23 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Teams currently with open C spots in their top-9 or places where David Desharnais would be an improvement to their C depth:

STL
TBL
PHX
NSH
NJ
NYI
FLA
DAL
CGY
CHI
ANA
CAR

Somebody has gotta take him

I did this quickly so if there are teams that don't belong, let me know.
DD + Whatever the **** for Stewart from STL please.

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04-22-2013, 05:27 PM
  #191
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DD + Whatever the **** for Stewart from STL please.
Contract negotiations with RFAs can be tricky business, let's hope they're terrible and we can trade for his rights.

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04-22-2013, 07:29 PM
  #192
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Douglas Murray looks really good against the Sens tonight. His perfect outlet pass led to a Pens goal.

He also saved a goal when Vokoun went down and left an empty net and Murray blocked the shot.

BIG mistake in not picking up Murray for ONE 2nd rounder this year.

He may not be available next season if he keeps playing like this.

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04-22-2013, 08:17 PM
  #193
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DD + Whatever the **** for Stewart from STL please.
Nobody ****ing wants DD

We do need Murray, though.

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04-23-2013, 04:54 AM
  #194
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Nobody ****ing wants DD

We do need Murray, though.
STL
TBL
PHX
NSH
NJ
NYI
FLA
DAL
CGY
CHI
ANA
CAR

These teams might want DD. Most of them have poor center depth and would be very happy taking a 50pt center off our hands, no matter if he's small.

Murray is awfully old and terribly slow. All of our defenceman can make outlet passes. We need someone tough, not specifically Douglas Murray.

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04-23-2013, 09:41 AM
  #195
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I think next season it's time for a change.. I still believe we need a top 6 F but we actually need a top 4 D more at this moment. Give more responsibility to Galchenyuk (14mins + PP time) if needed

MaxPac - Pleky - Gally
Bourque - DD - ???
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gionta
Prust - Halpern - Moen

Extra: Dumont and a tough guy

Gorges - Subban
Markov - ??? (right shot D)
Emelin - Diaz
Bouillon - Drewiske

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04-23-2013, 09:49 AM
  #196
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In a perfect world I'd trade Desharnais to Nashville for Chet Pickard. Pickard has struggled and was loaned to Sweden. We clear cap space and get another goalie in the pipeline for Hamilton. Nashville gets an offensive player which they desperately need.

I'd also trade one of White/Moen to Cal for a pick or maybe someone like Matt DeBlouw. Edm might want one of them to improve their bottom 6. I'd rather trade Moen but I doubt White will be a Hab come draft day.
How is trading Desharnais for a bust "in a perfect world"?

If Desharnais is traded they need to get a good asset back(high pick or top prospect) not a guy taht will probably never make the NHL.

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04-23-2013, 09:51 AM
  #197
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Douglas Murray looks really good against the Sens tonight. His perfect outlet pass led to a Pens goal.

He also saved a goal when Vokoun went down and left an empty net and Murray blocked the shot.

BIG mistake in not picking up Murray for ONE 2nd rounder this year.

He may not be available next season if he keeps playing like this.
How could we pick up Murray for ONE 2nd round pick when Pittsburgh basically gave up two 2nd to get him?

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04-23-2013, 10:12 AM
  #198
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How is trading Desharnais for a bust "in a perfect world"?

If Desharnais is traded they need to get a good asset back(high pick or top prospect) not a guy taht will probably never make the NHL.
You won't get a top pick or top prospect back for DD. Nashville has a strong goalie pipeline so maybe another goalie instead of Pickard. We need another goalie in the pipeline for depth. Getting rid of the DD cap hit is more important as imo it was a bad signing. We will never win a cup with DD as our 2nd line center. It will be only his 2nd season but I would make Gally the 2nd line Center. Pleks-Gally-Eller is strong down the middle.

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04-23-2013, 10:20 AM
  #199
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How is trading Desharnais for a bust "in a perfect world"?

If Desharnais is traded they need to get a good asset back(high pick or top prospect) not a guy taht will probably never make the NHL.
Definitely right. Trading for Chet Pickard doesn't make any sense.... Tokarski is a better goalie than him and we happen to have a 25yr old starting goalie. We can get a lot more back for DD.

I think that packaging DD along with another roster player is our best option. There are several positions we would do well to upgrade. Although, if a team like Chicago, Anaheim or St.Louis want to trade futures for him so they have a better chance of competing now.

ANA-Rakell/Smith-Pelly/Friberg
CHI-Danault/Morin
STL-Rattie/Jake Allen

These are perhaps unlikely to happen but they're the prospects most likely to be dealt to Montreal based on interest, depth chart and needs. Desharnais straight across for some of them isn't good value, some of the prospects straight across for Desharnais aren't good value. Something around each of them may work for MTL's interests.

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04-23-2013, 10:26 AM
  #200
Halifaxhab*
 
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Originally Posted by Scotianhab View Post
You won't get a top pick or top prospect back for DD. Nashville has a strong goalie pipeline so maybe another goalie instead of Pickard. We need another goalie in the pipeline for depth. Getting rid of the DD cap hit is more important as imo it was a bad signing. We will never win a cup with DD as our 2nd line center. It will be only his 2nd season but I would make Gally the 2nd line Center. Pleks-Gally-Eller is strong down the middle.
We already picked up a solid Goaltending prospect this year in Tokarski. He's likely to be an NHL backup. And we can always try to pick a goalie of the future in this draft.


what about TB? If DD were to be traded, I can see them interested. Maybe for someone like Killorn + ? And he's "un gars de chez nous" so that keeps the talking heads happy.

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