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If you had to choose: Trade Schneider or Buy-Out Luongo?

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Old
04-22-2013, 12:08 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
For Schneider they could get a top 6 forward still within his RFA period and on a reduced salary.
I hear this a ton, but then whenever people start throwing around names it's always "he is not proven enough" and that "goalies never return anything"

A top 6 forward on an RFA? Sign me up, I would just like to know this magical player is that is always available for Schneider, but disappears whenever we discuss actually trading him

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04-22-2013, 12:10 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
As a Canucks fan, Luongo's play+Schneider's return will beat Schneider's play+Lu's return if Luongo doesn't return a grandslam.
Yep pretty much. Honestly I'm not sure why this hasn't been looked into more. SC has no NTC, and could be traded anywhere, and would net a monster return. Unless his playoffs are amazing, his value would have been highest last summer as a RFA (or just after he was signed).

Would Edmonton trade one of their big 4 for him? Not sure... but SC's return, and the fact that Luongo can still play at a high level... asset wise, makes a lot more sense.

But there's 2 questions. Does Gillis think he can win with Luongo in net, and does Luongo still want to stay in Vancouver after what's happened, or would he prefer a fresh start?

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04-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Yep pretty much. Honestly I'm not sure why this hasn't been looked into more. SC has no NTC, and could be traded anywhere, and would net a monster return. Unless his playoffs are amazing, his value would have been highest last summer as a RFA (or just after he was signed).

Would Edmonton trade one of their big 4 for him? Not sure... but SC's return, and the fact that Luongo can still play at a high level... asset wise, makes a lot more sense.

But there's 2 questions. Does Gillis think he can win with Luongo in net, and does Luongo still want to stay in Vancouver after what's happened, or would he prefer a fresh start?
You would think Luongo wants a fresh start in the worst possible way. I would say there's probably a 95% chance Schneider doesn't get moved. It's amazing Luongo can keep his level up with all he's gone threw the past couple of years. It's time for him to move on. Unfortunately, his contract is a boat anchor.

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04-22-2013, 12:45 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
Neither...Schneider is the now and the future, Luongo has trade value or someone would claim him on waivers. There will be no buyouts for Lu.
This........And Van better do it soon or this option will disappear

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04-22-2013, 02:17 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
This........And Van better do it soon or this option will disappear
Not really. Someone will always take a chance on him. Regardless of his contract, he's still an allstar goalie. You put him on waivers, and there'll be at least 4-5 teams putting in claims - if not more.

The reason he hasn't been traded, isn't that he's untradable, it's that in addition to his contract, Vancouver is looking for a premium return fitting of an allstar goalie... and that's just not going to happen. Once they lower their expectations, something will get done, and he'll be moved this summer. Just hopefully not to Toronto.

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04-22-2013, 07:37 AM
  #106
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Is it just me or has everyone forgotten that Lu asked for a trade? The option to trade Schneider doesn't even really exist since Lu doesn't want to stay.

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04-22-2013, 07:46 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by DecimatorDiecuts View Post
Is it just me or has everyone forgotten that Lu asked for a trade? The option to trade Schneider doesn't even really exist since Lu doesn't want to stay.
I was under the impression he wants to start, and it was made clear to him that he would not be the starter, thus he wants out.

If they trade Schneider instead, I'd imagine he'd be content.

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04-22-2013, 09:21 AM
  #108
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Trade Scheidner. A team needing a goalie of the future (New Jersey) would be willing to give up a couple big parts for him (I'm thinking a 1st round pick + a good prospect and a roster player).

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04-22-2013, 09:32 AM
  #109
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I have a feeling that once we see the Leafs goalies falter in the playoffs, Luongo will be in TO by the draft

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04-22-2013, 09:32 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Trade Scheidner. A team needing a goalie of the future (New Jersey) would be willing to give up a couple big parts for him (I'm thinking a 1st round pick + a good prospect and a roster player).
Trading Schnieder this summer would create a market, where teams like Jersey, Philly and Edmonton (others?) would be making HUGE offers to get him.

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04-22-2013, 09:52 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
I was under the impression he wants to start, and it was made clear to him that he would not be the starter, thus he wants out.

If they trade Schneider instead, I'd imagine he'd be content.
That was my impression as well. As long as he doesn't have any hard feelings towards the management, then this is the direction I'd be going if I was Gillis. Luongo is still a damn good goalie in this league.

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04-22-2013, 10:07 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Yep pretty much. Honestly I'm not sure why this hasn't been looked into more. SC has no NTC, and could be traded anywhere, and would net a monster return. Unless his playoffs are amazing, his value would have been highest last summer as a RFA (or just after he was signed).

Would Edmonton trade one of their big 4 for him? Not sure... but SC's return, and the fact that Luongo can still play at a high level... asset wise, makes a lot more sense.

But there's 2 questions. Does Gillis think he can win with Luongo in net, and does Luongo still want to stay in Vancouver after what's happened, or would he prefer a fresh start?


On the topic, the smart move is to trade Schneider and keep RL. That's pretty obvious


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 04-22-2013 at 03:38 PM. Reason: off topic
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04-22-2013, 10:20 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Kip96 View Post
It's actually "9 years" Probably 6 that he'll actually play

I don't get why that is so hard for people to understand every long term contract is based on the player retiring early

Hossa, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk all have the same type of deals and I never hear a thing about them
The new CBA makes it worse. The reason you don't hear about those other guys is that their teams are not trying to trade them.

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04-22-2013, 11:08 AM
  #114
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Too risky to buy out Luongo, he can sign with a West rival. VAN would like to at least control where he would go. Same goes for Schneider. Better option would be to trade Schneider(Preferably to the east) and buyout Ballard this off season.

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04-22-2013, 12:38 PM
  #115
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Trade Schneider for a nice package, get a decent back up goalie for Lu, and let Lack develop. He's only 2 years younger than Schneider and I think he'll be a great goalie.

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04-22-2013, 12:42 PM
  #116
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I don't think trading Schnieder is an option. Too damn good.

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04-22-2013, 01:13 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Flyers2point0 View Post
Trade Schneider for a nice package, get a decent back up goalie for Lu, and let Lack develop. He's only 2 years younger than Schneider and I think he'll be a great goalie.
If he does become a great goalie in a couple yrs they will be in the same situation again. Lou wants to be the main guy, if Lack develops in the next couple yrs and starts taking games from Lou, who do trade then?

I don't get the trade Schneider crowd, he's younger, on a better contract, and did not ask for a trade. Even if it would cost giving an asset away, I would trade Lou well before letting Schneider go.

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04-22-2013, 01:18 PM
  #118
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"Trade CS for good return and keel RL.", ok CS for good young player... "No, he's unproven, most he'll get is a pick not in the top 5, prospect not named blah blah, and scrub roster player." Rinse and repeat.

Unless we get a top young prospect who can contribute now for CS, there is no point trading him. Waive RL if we have to but noway are we're getting rid of CS for futures. If management messed up on the contract and needs to spend millions to fix it, then do it. Fans pay enough to support the team so they need to fix their problem instead of making it worse.

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04-22-2013, 03:06 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Oshie97 View Post
If he does become a great goalie in a couple yrs they will be in the same situation again. Lou wants to be the main guy, if Lack develops in the next couple yrs and starts taking games from Lou, who do trade then?

I don't get the trade Schneider crowd, he's younger, on a better contract, and did not ask for a trade. Even if it would cost giving an asset away, I would trade Lou well before letting Schneider go.
1) I think there are some that feel that Luongo is still as good as Schneider in net and will be for the next four to five years. Luongo had a slow start last year but played Veizna caliber after the first month - 0.926 save%...Luongo has been Veizna caliber except for one start this season (8 goals against Detroit) - 0.926 save%).

2) I think some feel that Luongo's contract isn't that bad or is even good. He has a $5.3M cap hit and eventually we won't want that cap hit on our books and Luongo can either refuse to report (like Thomas) or go on LTIR if convenient. Schneider will likely want a contract bigger than $5.3M when his current deal expires. So in the long-run it might save cap to run with Luongo until our next goalie is ready.

Personally I don't agree with these two points of view but they aren't completely crazy.

My opinion is as follows:

1) Going into this year, Schneider earned the right to prove that he can be an elite full-time starter based on his prior play as a backup (which would make him a top 3 goalie in the league).

2) Until Schneider proved he was a top 5 goalie full-time, there was no way I would move Luongo who IMO is a top 5 goalie unless there was an over-payment which was not available.

3) Schneider has now proved he is a top 3-5 goalie as a starter, we can/should move Luongo.

4) If something amazingly good is offered for Schneider, then Luongo wouldn't be a bad option in net. I think anything between Luongo and the Canucks becomes water under the bridge if Luongo becomes the starter again. Schneider is a potential 27 year-old Veizna candidate on a $4M contract, so despite what people on HF feel about the value of goalies, there should be something very highly valued offered for him this off-season so it might be hard to say no.

5) I think Luongo gets traded for something decent (picks/prospects). I think there will be more options this summer than at the deadline and I think several teams would be willing to take his contract on for minimal assets as a minimum...the cap going down isn't a bad thing for Luongo's contract since the cap hit is quite good relative to performance (length is the issue).

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04-22-2013, 03:22 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Yep pretty much. Honestly I'm not sure why this hasn't been looked into more. SC has no NTC, and could be traded anywhere, and would net a monster return. Unless his playoffs are amazing, his value would have been highest last summer as a RFA (or just after he was signed).

Would Edmonton trade one of their big 4 for him? Not sure... but SC's return, and the fact that Luongo can still play at a high level... asset wise, makes a lot more sense.

But there's 2 questions. Does Gillis think he can win with Luongo in net, and does Luongo still want to stay in Vancouver after what's happened, or would he prefer a fresh start?
I love what Schneider is able to do, but Luongo isn't exactly a bottom tier goalie. Edmonton will not trade one of the big 4 (5?) straight, but that would be a huge return, even having to add from our end.

I don't know what Gillis thinks. Unless he is meddling in the affairs of Vignault, and forcing Schneider's hand, I don't think Lu has been playing poorly at all. His stats are thrown off by the same number of dismal games as Schneider, but with fewer "soft" (and I use the term loosely here) to recover.

As for Lu, I am of the mind that if we make him our guy once more, say stealing the reins during the playoffs, he'd be happy staying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
You would think Luongo wants a fresh start in the worst possible way. I would say there's probably a 95% chance Schneider doesn't get moved. It's amazing Luongo can keep his level up with all he's gone threw the past couple of years. It's time for him to move on. Unfortunately, his contract is a boat anchor.
Again, I am of the mind Lu wants to start. This can mean a new start elsewhere, or with his change in personality (or the reveal of his personality), it could be a new start here. He didn't come out ala Nash last deadline, although he did make it clear he was expecting a deal to be done, but not seeing Lu in a Canucks uniform will be very strange.

I say move the goalie that will fetch us the better return.


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Originally Posted by doobie604 View Post
"Trade CS for good return and keel RL.", ok CS for good young player... "No, he's unproven, most he'll get is a pick not in the top 5, prospect not named blah blah, and scrub roster player." Rinse and repeat.

Unless we get a top young prospect who can contribute now for CS, there is no point trading him. Waive RL if we have to but noway are we're getting rid of CS for futures. If management messed up on the contract and needs to spend millions to fix it, then do it. Fans pay enough to support the team so they need to fix their problem instead of making it worse.
I'd say after this season, no one in the right mind can't say Schneider has to prove himself further. If a team wants him, they are paying the price for what we see him as: A starting goalie that has taken the starting position, on a playoff team, from one of the top two goalies of this hockey generation (going back, say, 10 years).

I agree with no just giving Schneider up for scraps, I don't want to see him thrown away either, but CS's return >> Lu's return...no matter which direction we go with (futures or trying to create a one-two year juggernaut).

If there are not suitable offers, a buy out of Lu is something that can be done, but I don't think it will ever come to that.


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 04-22-2013 at 03:39 PM. Reason: off topic
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Old
04-22-2013, 03:23 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
4) If something amazingly good is offered for Schneider, then Luongo wouldn't be a bad option in net. I think anything between Luongo and the Canucks becomes water under the bridge if Luongo becomes the starter again. Schneider is a potential 27 year-old Veizna candidate on a $4M contract, so despite what people on HF feel about the value of goalies, there should be something very highly valued offered for him this off-season so it might be hard to say no.

5) I think Luongo gets traded for something decent (picks/prospects). I think there will be more options this summer than at the deadline and I think several teams would be willing to take his contract on for minimal assets as a minimum...the cap going down isn't a bad thing for Luongo's contract since the cap hit is quite good relative to performance (length is the issue).
Look at what Luongo got (offer wise) at the deadline. Two 2nds and a backup goalie. SC on the other hand would fetch a lot more than just futures.

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04-22-2013, 03:30 PM
  #122
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I'd say after this season, no one in the right mind can't say Schneider has to prove himself further. If a team wants him, they are paying the price for what we see him as: A starting goalie that has taken the starting position, on a playoff team, from one of the top two goalies of this hockey generation (going back, say, 10 years).

I agree with no just giving Schneider up for scraps, I don't want to see him thrown away either, but CS's return >> Lu's return...no matter which direction we go with (futures or trying to create a one-two year juggernaut).

If there are not suitable offers, a buy out of Lu is something that can be done, but I don't think it will ever come to that.
Like I said before... if Sc was available, I can see someone offering up a young top 6 talent (one of Philly's young forwards?) and then some. He's a good young goalie, and a lot of teams would love to have him.

But I still see Luongo getting moved for futures before SC gets moved at all.


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 04-22-2013 at 03:40 PM. Reason: off topic
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04-22-2013, 03:34 PM
  #123
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Agreed. Even if no one wants to trade for him he'd get picked up on waivers.
Nobody would touch Luongo on waivers.

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04-22-2013, 03:48 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I have a feeling that once we see the Leafs goalies falter in the playoffs, Luongo will be in TO by the draft


Just like they were going to falter all season right?

Even if they do falter, doesn't mean a trade is required.

Having said that and getting back on topic, Luongo is moveable, whether it is the better move or not is questionable. For example, Luongo and Vancouver's 1st for someone elses 4th round, a number of teams would do that...

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04-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #125
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Nobody would touch Luongo on waivers.
Well, I guess we'll find out.

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