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Western Europe Great Britain, France, Switzerland, Austria, Netherlands, Spain

WC D1A Budapest, Hungary (Final roster announced)

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04-22-2013, 01:56 PM
  #326
Scarecrow Boat
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Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
Finland - Leo Komarov? Estonian born?


The countries that don't have dual nats don't have any that are better then their home grown guys. I'm not arguing to have dual nats for the sake of it, if you have a pool of guys that qualify and the 22 or so players are all the best and all home grown then fantastic, but if the 22 best players in that pool aren't all home grown then whats the bloody problem. Especially as when the above shows that when they need to the top nations all use dual nat guys.

I mean for goodness sake, some of these teams in the WC wont even have all their best players as these 'patriots' will be playing in the playoffs. If we're arguing that dual nats shouldn't play because it's not fair on the home grown guys, what about the better nations and the Olympics. If the best guys turned the national team down for the WC's is it then not fair for the guys who played in the WC's to be replaced by the better guys? I didn't hear any outrage when Crosby scored.
Komarov was born in Estonia, moved to a Swedish speaking Finish town as a kid and played his hockey there. If you lived in Canada you would have heard that story 82 times because the Canadian media brings it up every time a Leafs game is played

As I said before, who are all these GB dual nationals who are better then the GB players picked? (+ The GB players missing due to injuries/playoffs)

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04-22-2013, 02:02 PM
  #327
Propane Nightmares
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Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
Going by either a confirmed roster or last years roster:

Austrian:

Stefan Ulmer - Appears to be Swiss trained?
And the roster that got them into the top division in 2010 had two Canadian trained guys.

Czech Rep - Fair enough I'll give you that one, although the year they won it seems Marek Kvapil was Slovak trained.

Finland - Leo Komarov? Estonian born?

Latvian - In recent rosters guys like Arturs Kulda and Herberts Vasiljevs were picked.

Slovaks - Dominik Granak?

Slovenia - Greg Kuznik?

Sweden - Robert Nilsson?

The countries that don't have dual nats don't have any that are better then their home grown guys. I'm not arguing to have dual nats for the sake of it, if you have a pool of guys that qualify and the 22 or so players are all the best and all home grown then fantastic, but if the 22 best players in that pool aren't all home grown then whats the bloody problem. Especially as when the above shows that when they need to the top nations all use dual nat guys.

I mean for goodness sake, some of these teams in the WC wont even have all their best players as these 'patriots' will be playing in the playoffs. If we're arguing that dual nats shouldn't play because it's not fair on the home grown guys, what about the better nations and the Olympics. If the best guys turned the national team down for the WC's is it then not fair for the guys who played in the WC's to be replaced by the better guys? I didn't hear any outrage when Crosby scored.
Ulmer: No. He doesn't have any stats in Austria on Elite Prospects but if he had not played junior there in his earlier years he would not be eligible.

Komarov: Estonian born, Finnish trained

Kulda: One year in Latvian league in 03/04 and assuming he played there before then
Vasiljevs: Impossible to tell from stats but he must have played there otherwise wouldn't be eligible

Granak: One year of Slovak U20's listed, would have to have played earlier otherwise would be ineligible

Nilsson: Trained in Sweden didn't leave until 2006

The reason these countries don't have available dual nationals is because they haven't artificially increased the standard of their domestic league with imports. Therefore far less players have gone there to play and stayed long enough for citizenship.

You will find most of the eliminated European NHL players do choose to play in the WC's, Canadian and American players are more likely to turn them down but that's usually for reasons such as nagging injuries and having just played an 82 game season. Canadians and Americans in general do not really care about the WC's. I do not even see how that compares at all.


Last edited by Propane Nightmares: 04-22-2013 at 02:29 PM.
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04-22-2013, 02:04 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by villevalo View Post
So you now think the roster would be made of 22 dual nats?

Look at the Wales squad that just won the six nations, they have a couple dual nats, they will get extra funding from the bodies, once again I dont hear any shaking of fists for their involvement.
If you're talking about Toby Faletau he moved to Wales when he was 7.

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04-22-2013, 04:05 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
The point was, you aren't going to get funding by using Canadians to get a medal. The funding is wanted to help hockey at the grassroots level in GB (if not then this conversation is even sillier), you can't say "Well our team of Canadians who played a few years of pro in GB won a gold medal, so obviously there's a base to fund grass roots programs in GB!" If the success of the team wasn't in part due to the program you're seeking funding for, how can you justify the connection?
Results sell.
Look at the Brit media coverage because of a W in OLY pre qualy's
Lunch bag let down there after.
Do Nottingham, Sheffield, Belfast fill the rink to see locals? Do Dundee/Fife derby games fill their rinks to see locals it's a bonus....BUT they take money outta their wallets to see the home team win,
Every sports fan no matter which sport only wanna see one thing, The home town team win

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04-22-2013, 04:09 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
Results sell.
Look at the Brit media coverage because of a W in OLY pre qualy's
Lunch bag let down there after.
Do Nottingham, Sheffield, Belfast fill the rink to see locals? Do Dundee/Fife derby games fill their rinks to see locals it's a bonus....BUT they take money outta their wallets to see the home team win,
Every sports fan no matter which sport only wanna see one thing, The home town team win
This was the headline in The Times, one of the biggest national newspapers

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/...cle3677842.ece

After the controversies surrounding some of the athletes competing for us in London, the media loved this, hockey got a headline for a good reason for once. Usually when hockey gets even just a few column inches it's because a linesman has been sent off, there was a bench clearance, or someone got cut open with a skate. And most recently a player throwing their stick at a ref.


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04-22-2013, 04:18 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
This was the headline in The Times, one of the biggest national newspapers

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/...cle3677842.ece

After the controversies surrounding some of the athletes competing for us in London, the media loved this
This is an interesting point. For all that this fake pointless nationalism/patriotism and the feeling of "being British" stemming from the olympics is bizarre to me, it is definitely a noticeable concept.

Alpine, anecdotal evidence of the strategy you propose suggests that there is no significant increase in success. It is quite clear that using new nationals has very little impact on short-term success. Patently it will have a negative impact on long-term success, since it does not create any emphasis to concentrate on developmental infrastructure. You don't build a stadium by building the roof first.

Funding, media attention and player participation is what is required to drive improvement. Having players nationalised doesn't help this, since we aren't going to be able to get good enough quality players to noticeable improve our standing/results/ranking.

It really is the wrong method of attack.

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04-22-2013, 04:36 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
This was the headline in The Times, one of the biggest national newspapers

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/...cle3677842.ece

After the controversies surrounding some of the athletes competing for us in London, the media loved this, hockey got a headline for a good reason for once. Usually when hockey gets even just a few column inches it's because a linesman has been sent off, there was a bench clearance, or someone got cut open with a skate. And most recently a player throwing their stick at a ref.
Can you copy the entire article or like me, can you only see the first bit? I kinda wanna read it now lol

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04-22-2013, 04:38 PM
  #333
Propane Nightmares
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Originally Posted by Adam Tilander View Post
Can you copy the entire article or like me, can you only see the first bit? I kinda wanna read it now lol
no you have to subscribe

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04-25-2013, 04:26 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
I spoke to someone today who said Tony Hand needs to be fired because he just stood there all game every game and didn't really seem to do a lot of "coaching" and the guy also didn't agree with his roster selections.

Though I do agree relegation isn't the end of the world, if you look at the past history we regularly finished 4th or 5th under the old format which would see us in D1B. However, we are supposed to be improving. Korea is a team we should be beating looking at the rankings and past results but evidently they have improved and we haven't.

But really I am angry because we underperformed, I know the team can do better, we beat Hungary last year and they dominated us this year. Our best players played badly.
I just want to say that I was very surprised that GB got relegated to say the least.
I've watched a few GB-Hungary game and I gotta tell you that it was tough to play against you guys. You very very physical and we didn't used to that kind of play. But we could manage to beat you somehow most of the times.
As for last year's loss against you: we had already blew our chances to get promoted and we had enough points not to get relegated. I'm just saying that if that game were to decide if go up to the Elite division or not, belive me you would in no way (not likely ) have beaten us. No offense.

As far as next year goes for you, you'll have a tough game against Poland for sure, and a not-so-much against Netherland (although they beat us last year - surprisingly, but rightfully - I might add). The rest should be easy. You have less than 1 year and can get back. Get ready


Last edited by attis76: 04-25-2013 at 04:37 AM.
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