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Old
04-22-2013, 03:27 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Boyle and Richards rarely played together.

Boyle has not been good this season. I dont know why people have to make things up to make him seem even worse.
he was playing with richards his last few games

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04-22-2013, 03:29 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Affinity View Post
I know it's mostly useless but how the hell is Boyle a -13? He hasn't even been on the ice for the most amount of GA out of our forwards. We just score practically no goals when he's on the ice.

Guess I answered my own question.
exactly the -13 shows how bad he is offensively rather than his defensive skills. he literally makes the players around him worse

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04-22-2013, 03:32 PM
  #303
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The ONLY time Boyle should be on the ice is the PK. I don't think that warrants him having a roster spot. I'd rather have Powe for gods sake.

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04-22-2013, 03:33 PM
  #304
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The only way it would be acceptable to credit Pyatt with the improvement in Richards' game is if it was used to criticize Boyle.

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04-22-2013, 03:34 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If those are the issues you have with Boyle, than Derek Dorsett is not the option you're looking for. Hes even worse than Boyle offensively, and not much of a defensive player either. Hes an energy guy.

If you want him on the 3rd line, its clearly just a case of not knowing what kind of player he is and just being happy hes not Boyle. The difficult truth is he is worse than Boyle offensively.
Where are you getting that Dorsett is worse than Boyle offensively? I would 110% disagree. Defensively, probably not even with Boyle, but offensively?

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04-22-2013, 03:34 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If those are the issues you have with Boyle, than Derek Dorsett is not the option you're looking for. Hes even worse than Boyle offensively, and not much of a defensive player either. Hes an energy guy.

If you want him on the 3rd line, its clearly just a case of not knowing what kind of player he is and just being happy hes not Boyle. The difficult truth is he is worse than Boyle offensively.
I never said I want Dorsett on the third line, as I'm fine with the production our first three lines have given us recently. Also, I seriously doubt you watched Dorsett play this season pre-injury if you're saying his offense is worse than Boyle. He isn't an offensive dynamo but he makes things happen on the ice and creates real chances, which is more than I can say for Boyle. Either way, I would be fine with a fourth line that featured Asham-Boyle-Dorsett, with Boyle being interchangeable with Powe.

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04-22-2013, 03:41 PM
  #307
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Derek Dorsett has more points than our 4th line combined in half the games lol. If you include Boyle on the fourth line then he has equal the amount of points. Pretty sad for our 4th line.

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04-22-2013, 03:41 PM
  #308
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Perhaps the scoring onslaught has less to do with Boyle and more to do with an offensively talented team on paper finally showing stone against weak competition.

A novelty.

Also, we really just need to erase the Buffalo game as an indicator of anything. That was the most bizarrely lucky game I have ever seen this team play. Ridiculously lucky. We won't get game like that ever again.

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Old
04-22-2013, 03:43 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Where are you getting that Dorsett is worse than Boyle offensively? I would 110% disagree. Defensively, probably not even with Boyle, but offensively?
Dorsett has 27 goals and 38 assists in 280 NHL games.

Hes good enough for the 3rd line, but Boyle is not. I find that double-standard to be fascinating. Truly an "anyone but him" mentality.

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04-22-2013, 03:48 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Perhaps the scoring onslaught has less to do with Boyle and more to do with an offensively talented team on paper finally showing stone against weak competition.

A novelty.
Not as much fun as pinning it on Boyle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Also, we really just need to erase the Buffalo game as an indicator of anything. That was the most bizarrely lucky game I have ever seen this team play. Ridiculously lucky. We won't get game like that ever again.
That's also what we're supposed to do with Boyle's entire 2010-11 season.

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04-22-2013, 04:00 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Perhaps the scoring onslaught has less to do with Boyle and more to do with an offensively talented team on paper finally showing stone against weak competition.

A novelty.

Also, we really just need to erase the Buffalo game as an indicator of anything. That was the most bizarrely lucky game I have ever seen this team play. Ridiculously lucky. We won't get game like that ever again.

As lucky as some of those deflections were, it doesn't come close to making up for all the snake bitten players we've had this year.

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04-22-2013, 04:15 PM
  #312
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I don't think there's ever been a bottom 6 player that has caused this much debate.

Although I really do hope that no one seriously thinks that his 2010-11 season wasn't a fluke.

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04-22-2013, 04:19 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Are you implying that Kreider has had anything at all to do with the past few wins?

Boyle is much better fit for that 4th line spot.
He may not have anything to do with the wins, but the TEAM itself has played better without Boyle in the line up.

And that's in both instances.

And for what I expect from the 4th line, the difference between Kreider and Boyle is marginal at best.

Kreider has a lot of growing to do as an every day NHL'er. Boyle is as good as he is going to get and right now, he's an overrated 4th liner that doesn't provide much to this Rangers team that we don't already have.

PK we're doing fine without BB. 4th line effectiveness? with or without Boyle it hasn't been effective. Physicality? Those marshmellow's he throws wouldn't wear down my fathers mother and she passed over 20 years ago.

Boyle is slow, offensively chanllenged and overrated defensively. What does he do that makes him a valued member of the on ice product?

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04-22-2013, 04:30 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
He may not have anything to do with the wins, but the TEAM itself has played better without Boyle in the line up.

And that's in both instances.

And for what I expect from the 4th line, the difference between Kreider and Boyle is marginal at best.

Kreider has a lot of growing to do as an every day NHL'er. Boyle is as good as he is going to get and right now, he's an overrated 4th liner that doesn't provide much to this Rangers team that we don't already have.

PK we're doing fine without BB. 4th line effectiveness? with or without Boyle it hasn't been effective. Physicality? Those marshmellow's he throws wouldn't wear down my fathers mother and she passed over 20 years ago.

Boyle is slow, offensively chanllenged and overrated defensively. What does he do that makes him a valued member of the on ice product?
I think that, right now, he is a more valuable commodity than Kreider - if even just for PK purposes.

Kreider has done nothing with the majority of the time hes been given. Its been painful to watch, and just because hes some prized prospect, Im not going to let that cloud my judgment regarding who is more suitable for a certain role right now.

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04-22-2013, 04:37 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think that, right now, he is a more valuable commodity than Kreider - if even just for PK purposes.

Kreider has done nothing with the majority of the time hes been given. Its been painful to watch, and just because hes some prized prospect, Im not going to let that cloud my judgment regarding who is more suitable for a certain role right now.
by no means am I saying I am happy with what Kreider has provided.

That said, witht he amount of ice time that Boyle is allotted, his lack of production should be very very alarming.

he averages over 15 minutes a game and provides exactly what Kredier provides during his 5+ minutes a game.

Boyle add's nothing to the top 9 and the difference of what he Kreider provides again is marginal.

I would rather let Kreider learn as he goes and get nothing out of him than let Boyle get older (cause he's not getting better) doing the same thing, playing the same minutes.

Kreider - Rangers long term plans. Will be here long after Torts.

Boyle? Not so much.

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04-22-2013, 04:44 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
he averages over 15 minutes a game and provides exactly what Kredier provides during his 5+ minutes a game.
It's not quite that dramatic.

Boyle:
ES TOI/Gm = 11:45
PK TOI/Gm = 0:34

Kreider:
ES TOI/Gm = 9:37
PP TOI/Gm = 0:42

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04-22-2013, 04:45 PM
  #317
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Kreider doesn't belong on the fourth line playing in a role that he is just not suited for...

Absolutely 100% when Boyle is ready to play he belongs on the fourth line. I think this whole season has really just messed with kreiders head a little bit. If the rangers make the playoffs there will be games where the fourth line is gonna be needed to grind/forecheck and make some hits to give the other lines a breather..... Kreider is simply not suited for this.

This isn't the year for Kreider, he has to be put in a second line role to further his development.... let Dorsett/Pyatt/ Boyle battle for who should be playing.... There is nothing better than having a lot of guys hungry for playing time battling for one possible spot.

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04-22-2013, 04:52 PM
  #318
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Im enjoying these false narratives about Boyle playing 15-20 minutes a game (which is completely wrong, by the way), because Torts enjoys doing that or something.

Bottom line is, even with the depth moves, one of Boyle, Pyatt, or Kreider is getting top 9 minutes. Pick your poison. They've all played poorly this year.

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04-22-2013, 05:12 PM
  #319
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toi for the great one in april

4/1/13 jets: 17:49
4/3/13 pens: 16:12
4/5/13 pens: 15:57
4/6/13 canes: 19:18
4/8/13 leafs: 13:28
4/10/13 leafs: 15:52
4/13/13 isles: 14:50
4/16/13 flyers: 4:50 (left game injured)

with 118:15 minutes of ice time boyle has 3 points (1 EN goal and 2 assists)

rangers scored 23 goals in those 8 games. in the 3 games without boyle they have 18.

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04-22-2013, 05:16 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
rangers scored 23 goals in those 8 games. in the 3 games without boyle they have 18.
This reminds me of when Tortorella took over for Renney and they scored some goals in a short stretch and all the anti-Renney crowd went: "SEE?!"

Except this is more ridiculous.

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Old
04-22-2013, 05:20 PM
  #321
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pyatt, boyles replacement, has the same stats (1 goal 2 assists) in these 3 games as boyle does for all of april. only difference is pyatt scored on a goalie

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04-23-2013, 08:51 AM
  #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
It's not quite that dramatic.

Boyle:
ES TOI/Gm = 11:45
PK TOI/Gm = 0:34

Kreider:
ES TOI/Gm = 9:37
PP TOI/Gm = 0:42
Not sure how you get that Boyle is only playing 12:19 per game (per the math above) when both NHL.com and http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.php?3487 both have him over 14 minutes a game.

And it is dramatic when you consider that Boyle has 18 more games at 14+ minutes a game and only 2 more assists than Kreider.

Not to mention that Boyle is the ONLY NYR player with a double digit +/- with a -13.

Boyle at this stage may not even BE an upgrade over Kreider for the role that is asked. However, lets assume for a second that I concede that he IS an upgrade. The upgrade is marginal at best.

Personally, I would prefer to go with the guy that is going to be here long term (Kreider) over the guy that will be gone, probably as soon as this summer.

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04-23-2013, 10:29 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Not sure how you get that Boyle is only playing 12:19 per game (per the math above) when both NHL.com and http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.php?3487 both have him over 14 minutes a game.

And it is dramatic when you consider that Boyle has 18 more games at 14+ minutes a game and only 2 more assists than Kreider.

Not to mention that Boyle is the ONLY NYR player with a double digit +/- with a -13.
Simple, add Boyle's 1:53 SH TOI per game and you get 14:12 per game. I was showing that the majority of the difference in TOI/Gm was penalty kill, and if you have an issue with Boyle getting penalty kill time over Kreider....

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04-23-2013, 12:16 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Simple, add Boyle's 1:53 SH TOI per game and you get 14:12 per game. I was showing that the majority of the difference in TOI/Gm was penalty kill, and if you have an issue with Boyle getting penalty kill time over Kreider....
not what I said or insinuated.

Kreider doesn't kill penalties. He doesn't have to.

We have not missed a beat on the PK w/o Boyle.

What I am saying and have proven is that in the minutes that Kreider plays, the difference between he and Boyle is tracing-paper thin.

The biggest difference that I see is that at least with Kreider and his pedigree, we are more dangerous offensively with him in the line up over a very overrated Boyle.

The team without Boyle is a faster team to play against. A much tougher match up.

The arguments being made for Boyle were made for Betts before his absence was NEVER felt.

Boyle is just like Betts, a dime-a-dozen 4th line PK'er that is overrated by the fan base.

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04-23-2013, 12:35 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
not what I said or insinuated.

Kreider doesn't kill penalties. He doesn't have to.

We have not missed a beat on the PK w/o Boyle.

What I am saying and have proven is that in the minutes that Kreider plays, the difference between he and Boyle is tracing-paper thin.

The biggest difference that I see is that at least with Kreider and his pedigree, we are more dangerous offensively with him in the line up over a very overrated Boyle.

The team without Boyle is a faster team to play against. A much tougher match up.

The arguments being made for Boyle were made for Betts before his absence was NEVER felt.

Boyle is just like Betts, a dime-a-dozen 4th line PK'er that is overrated by the fan base.
I agree, rangers fans seem to love 4th liner plugs who offer nothing

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