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Interview Dave Feschuk talks about his last article in the Star. Burke wants credit

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04-22-2013, 03:57 PM
  #351
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re-hire Burke

FIRE ANSELMI!

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04-22-2013, 04:03 PM
  #352
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You noticed he mentioned his guys first and just lumps in the rest? What an ego on this guy. Lets hope this is the last we hear of him. You notice other franchises who fire someone don't have their fanbases pining away for them months after the fact?
It's sad Burke still has to feed his ego .

It would have been nice if he mentioned the fan base that still supported this team over years of failure .

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04-22-2013, 04:17 PM
  #353
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Thank you Mr. Burke. You helped lift the spirit of an entire city.
Damn straight!

Very classy of him to send out his congrats. What a beauty

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04-22-2013, 06:26 PM
  #354
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Who is their starting goalie?
Who are Kulemin, Gunnarsson, and Komarov and the PK?

Sorry, but Burke didn't create this team out of nothing. The team is gifted with 7 draft picks every year, yes even if you were the GM the league would give you 7 draft picks.

Getting Phaneuf wasn't magic, they traded quite a few assets that were on the team for Phaneuf. And from what I read Nonis did a lot of the work on this deal. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413804

Schenn (Fletcher) begat van Riemsdyk.

Is Genesis 1:31 about Burke?

Lupul and Gardiner (what happened to him?) in my opinion are absolute steals that Burke did. Signing Beauchemin as UFA and then trading him back to the Ducks for a salary dump and prospect. Sometimes those salary dumps ...
You're right that it's difficult to separate the involvement Nonis had but the Phaneuf deal was grand ****ing larceny. Yes it was clear back then. It's even clearer now. We gave up nothing of value for him.

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04-22-2013, 06:32 PM
  #355
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You're right that it's difficult to separate the involvement Nonis had but the Phaneuf deal was grand ****ing larceny. Yes it was clear back then. It's even clearer now. We gave up nothing of value for him.
The best part was 3 of them were FA and the 4th overpaid (IMO). Most were going to allowed to walk for free. Making it even more funny (given people yapped incessantly about Phaneuf's contract) was the fact those guys were rewarded MORE salary than Dion cost. Not only did we get by far the best player but we saved money versus keeping those guys.

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04-22-2013, 06:34 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
You noticed he mentioned his guys first and just lumps in the rest? What an ego on this guy. Lets hope this is the last we hear of him. You notice other franchises who fire someone don't have their fanbases pining away for them months after the fact?
Ummm.....they're all his guys?

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04-22-2013, 07:12 PM
  #357
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Burkes biggest regret is giving RW that extension. other than that he was a marvelous GM from what he accomplished..... i havn't heard any of those people complaining about how edmonton did it against how toronto did things.
I disagree... Burke's biggest regret and IMO the reason why he was fired was his battle with the media. He lost a PR battle with the media with 2 media giants coming in as the new owners well lets just say it makes sense that only Burke from management was let go.

Ron Wilson wasn't perfect just like Carlyle hasn't been perfect either he's still one hell of a coach rather people like to see it or not. There was a reason why Fletcher jumped quickly to hire Wilson once San Jose let him go, anybody who thinks that if Wilson got the goaltending that Carlyle received this season that Wilson's tenure wouldn't have been different or that both he and Burke would still be here are kidding themselves.

I've been clear with this statement for some time now "Fix the goaltending and you'll fix the Leafs" EVERY SYSTEM is depended on sound goaltending to be effective and it's impossible to have a good PK with poor goaltending

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04-22-2013, 07:35 PM
  #358
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They only reason Burke was fired was because he had full control over the team, and the new power hunger mongs that bought the team didn't like that. Simple.

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04-22-2013, 07:59 PM
  #359
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Whether too low or unattainably high, my expectations are governed by an ability to consider circumstances in their entirety, rather than some revised, irrational sense of believing that salary equates to a GMs ability to control the performance of his players and the players of other teams.

The only financial advantage Toronto has, namely in it's potential to construct a superior administrative structure, was administered. Toronto's other financial advantage is measured in it's ability to subsidize it's competition. Whatever the application, there is no reasonable criticism you can invent that merits the label of irresponsible spending, if you're even remotely concerned with actual circumstances.

Within those circumstances would be the rejection of players Burke targeted (Sedins, Kesler, etc...) for other clubs. That had nothing to do with almost four years of Burke's service or perceived braggadocio, seasons after their availablilty in his first year here, and everything to do with the nature of the business that doesn't serve as Toronto's singular one-stop shop.

"You seem to think that 5 seasons minus 2 months was spectacular."

I might seem to think that in your mind, but if you're concerned how and what I think, you'd have directly responded to the numerous inconsistencies I've pointed out previously in your posts rather than participate in the conversation you wish I was engaged in.

I think, that with a season to consider what moves could and should be made excluded, that the yield Burke's actions ultimately produced are exemplary. If you think his participation is based on two factors: The Kessel trade and four seasons of missed playoffs, while excluding...JVR for Schenn, Lupul and Gardiner for Beauchemin, drafting Kadri, Phaneuf for Stajan, Hagman and White (Sweet Fancy Moses), Franson for Lebda, bringing in Carlyle and Nonis, then you are doing so in spite of reality.

"So, under that line of reasoning, would you be saying that Burke did a "pretty good job" if it took him 9 years to make the playoffs?"

Why not 29 years for increased dramatic effect? Either instance is a distortion of how I think and what I've presented. The FACT of the matter is, you cannot point to a single facet of this team's success, without citing an origin point of Brian Burke. Not one. And you cannot wish away, that in -- as is oft repeated to you -- three years and ten months, with two Burke principals steering Burke acquired assets that are amongst the best in the league, Toronto is assured of playoff hockey. Something consistently present in Burke's resume prior to coming to this once decimated club.

He rebuilt it ground up, top to bottom, and not for the short run, which is what I've asserted over and over and over again. Why? Because Burke repeated, he was not interested in short term moves that compromised the long-term integrity of the club. THAT sort of franchise building effort, I thought, was indicative of a GM who really regarded this club as hockey's most storied. As such, he was attempting to create a contending club...not for one season, but a foundation for all seasons. And it's looking, given the age of our top players, that he did exactly that.

"Would you be saying the same things as you are now? "Given the poor players he inherited, Burke still did a pretty good job."

I don't have to speculate in order to render a sound conclusion precisely because of those factors that completely undermine your hyperfocused, irrational assessment.

Are the Leafs coached by a Burke hire who previously won a Cup on a Burke club?

Are the Leafs managed by a Burke hire who has been characterized as "Burke's protoge"?

In the last two seasons, are the three players who have been at time or another, in the top ten in scoring, Burke acquisitions?

In this last season, are the two defencemen who have been in the top five in NHL scoring, Burke acquisitions?

Is it unreasonable to characterize four seasons, one less than stated as necessary to rebuild an entire franchise as a perrenial contender, an unreasonable amount of time to do so?

Can you name one other club that presently has two top scoring defencemen, and three forwards who in the last two season have placed in the top ten as young as Toronto heading into the playoffs?

And one could go on and on...You seem particularly silent on Wilson's absence, what he did or didn't contribute to the club, and Burke's contributions.

I regard the club's present situtation as being an amalgamation of a number of efforts finally pressing through the proverbial wall...But who knows, maybe we clinched because we only had to play half a season, and got lucky that it was the right half played.

Too bad, Burke wasn't as lucky this time around.
If I addressed every one of your arguments point by point, it would take 28 pages and 5 hours.

I think one of our fundamental disagreements is that I think Burke's financial advantage is much more substantial than you do.
I think having rich ownership that allows him to spend $10-16 million more on players than a substantial amount of the competition is a HUGE advantage.
You downplay that advantage simply because you "like" Burke, and feel the need to make excuses for him.

I compare the highest paid GM with the most financial advantages to the best of the best GM's, and say "he did a poor job".
People like you compare the highest paid GM with the most financial advantages to the worst of the worst GM's and say "Well, he did better than them... he's great".
I think that that is frighteningly low expectations.
Always comparing to pathetically poor teams like the Islanders and Panthers.
Let's compare a rebuild to another rich team big boy.

Last season, Montreal finished 3rd last in the nhl. The leaf team Burke inherited had just finished 7th last.
Montreal's forwards lacked elite talent (best player last year had like 65 points.)
The leafs best forwards lacked elite talent (forward on the leaf team Burke inherited had around 65 points.)
Montreals prospects last season were ranked lower than the prospects Burke inherited (according to both HF and the Hockey News)
Montreal had even WORSE albatross contracts to deal with (uh... Gomez?) than what Burke had to deal with.

Yet their GM turned the team around in 1 season.
ONE ****ING SEASON!!!!
If it ended up taking 5 nhl seasons (minus 2 months), Montreal fans like YOU would have said "Well, based on the team Bergevin inherited, taking 5 years was a GREAT JOB!!!! He had albatross contracts to deal with, pathetic prospects, and no elite 1st line talent!!!!" (Sound familiar?)

But it only took one year.

It's performances like THAT that I compare the highest paid GM in the league with the most financial advantages.

I'm sure you'll make a whole bunch of lame excuses as to why it was easier for Bergevin than for Burke...
but such arguments are a slippery slope.
At what point are you just saying "We can't compare burke to any other GM's because the teams were in different situations".
At what point is THAT argument just saying "I think Burke did a good job, regardless of any comparisons/facts that you bring up"?

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04-22-2013, 08:02 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by TeamBester View Post
They only reason Burke was fired was because he had full control over the team, and the new power hunger mongs that bought the team didn't like that. Simple.
Oh...
I thought it would have something to do with missing the playoffs 4 seasons in a row (all as the highest paid GM with the most financial advantages), and finishing 2nd last and 9th last without his 1st round picks.
Silly me...

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04-22-2013, 08:12 PM
  #361
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I would say that you spend far more time defending Burke than I spend criticizing him.
So copying and pasting would save you much more time than it would save me.

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04-22-2013, 08:12 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post

Last season, Montreal finished 3rd last in the nhl. The leaf team Burke inherited had just finished 7th last.
Montreal's forwards lacked elite talent (best player last year had like 65 points.)
The leafs best forwards lacked elite talent (forward on the leaf team Burke inherited had around 65 points.)
Montreals prospects last season were ranked lower than the prospects Burke inherited (according to both HF and the Hockey News)
Montreal had even WORSE albatross contracts to deal with (uh... Gomez?) than what Burke had to deal with.

Yet their GM turned the team around in 1 season.
ONE ****ING SEASON!!!!
If it ended up taking 5 nhl seasons (minus 2 months), Montreal fans like YOU would have said "Well, based on the team Bergevin inherited, taking 5 years was a GREAT JOB!!!! He had albatross contracts to deal with, pathetic prospects, and no elite 1st line talent!!!!" (Sound familiar?)

But it only took one year.

It's performances like THAT that I compare the highest paid GM in the league with the most financial advantages.

I'm sure you'll make a whole bunch of lame excuses as to why it was easier for Bergevin than for Burke...
but such arguments are a slippery slope.
At what point are you just saying "We can't compare burke to any other GM's because the teams were in different situations".
At what point is THAT argument just saying "I think Burke did a good job, regardless of any comparisons/facts that you bring up"?
As someone who lived in Montreal and watched a lot of habs games, why not look at the three seasons before last? Montreal was a much better team then their record last year. Montreal did not have a miraculous one year rebuild, no matter how hard anyone tries to spin it.

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04-22-2013, 08:19 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
I would say that you spend far more time defending Burke than I spend criticizing him.
So copying and pasting would save you much more time than it would save me.
All you do is **** all over Burke, nothing else. Nothing. I left a long time ago, and came back and here you are still saying the same ****.

I actually like talking about the team I cheer and love. You?


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04-22-2013, 08:19 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
If I addressed every one of your arguments point by point, it would take 28 pages and 5 hours.

I think one of our fundamental disagreements is that I think Burke's financial advantage is much more substantial than you do.
I think having rich ownership that allows him to spend $10-16 million more on players than a substantial amount of the competition is a HUGE advantage.
You downplay that advantage simply because you "like" Burke, and feel the need to make excuses for him.

I compare the highest paid GM with the most financial advantages to the best of the best GM's, and say "he did a poor job".
People like you compare the highest paid GM with the most financial advantages to the worst of the worst GM's and say "Well, he did better than them... he's great".
I think that that is frighteningly low expectations.
Always comparing to pathetically poor teams like the Islanders and Panthers.
Let's compare a rebuild to another rich team big boy.

Last season, Montreal finished 3rd last in the nhl. The leaf team Burke inherited had just finished 7th last.
Montreal's forwards lacked elite talent (best player last year had like 65 points.)
The leafs best forwards lacked elite talent (forward on the leaf team Burke inherited had around 65 points.)
Montreals prospects last season were ranked lower than the prospects Burke inherited (according to both HF and the Hockey News)
Montreal had even WORSE albatross contracts to deal with (uh... Gomez?) than what Burke had to deal with.

Yet their GM turned the team around in 1 season.
ONE ****ING SEASON!!!!
If it ended up taking 5 nhl seasons (minus 2 months), Montreal fans like YOU would have said "Well, based on the team Bergevin inherited, taking 5 years was a GREAT JOB!!!! He had albatross contracts to deal with, pathetic prospects, and no elite 1st line talent!!!!" (Sound familiar?)

But it only took one year.

It's performances like THAT that I compare the highest paid GM in the league with the most financial advantages.

I'm sure you'll make a whole bunch of lame excuses as to why it was easier for Bergevin than for Burke...
but such arguments are a slippery slope.
At what point are you just saying "We can't compare burke to any other GM's because the teams were in different situations".
At what point is THAT argument just saying "I think Burke did a good job, regardless of any comparisons/facts that you bring up"?
It's also one you've created in your own mind. 2 teams spent 16 M less than the cap. There isn't a team in the league this year whose cap total was more than $12 M off the max cap of Burke's era and all but one year all are $7M and under, so saying they can't spend that money is no more than a figment of your imagination. At $64 M next year, only two teams cap from this year is greater than $10 M.

Your Montreal argument is equally bunk. Their roster is largely the same as last year. All of 5 different players brought in from outside, mostly bottom feeders. The thing that was changed that made the difference in Montreal is a big part of what made the difference in Toronto and it should be obvious to an Observer.

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04-22-2013, 08:21 PM
  #365
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Anyway, its obvious they had no intentions of letting Burke make any decisions without their consent, and fired him before he could.

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04-22-2013, 08:31 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by leaffaninvictoria View Post
As someone who lived in Montreal and watched a lot of habs games, why not look at the three seasons before last? Montreal was a much better team then their record last year. Montreal did not have a miraculous one year rebuild, no matter how hard anyone tries to spin it.
But isn't it strange you can use the precise same arguments against Montreal last year as the team Burke inherited?

Montreal had no elite players, poorly rated prospects, and albatross contracts.
Doesn't that sound ridiculously similar to the team Burke inherited?

Granted, they already had a starting goalie at the beginning of their miraculous legendary one year rebuild... but if you look at his lackluster stats this year, he's hardly a contributing cause to their legendary turn around.

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04-22-2013, 08:35 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
But isn't it strange you can use the precise same arguments against Montreal last year as the team Burke inherited?

Montreal had no elite players, poorly rated prospects, and albatross contracts.
Doesn't that sound ridiculously similar to the team Burke inherited?

Granted, they already had a starting goalie at the beginning of their miraculous legendary one year rebuild... but if you look at his lackluster stats this year, he's hardly a contributing cause to their legendary turn around.
Using an outlier of a season to make the Leafs look bad, good one. Not.

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04-22-2013, 08:35 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
But isn't it strange you can use the precise same arguments against Montreal last year as the team Burke inherited?

Montreal had no elite players, poorly rated prospects, and albatross contracts.
Doesn't that sound ridiculously similar to the team Burke inherited?

Granted, they already had a starting goalie at the beginning of their miraculous legendary one year rebuild... but if you look at his lackluster stats this year, he's hardly a contributing cause to their legendary turn around.
Again to re build a team you have to rebuild a team. Show me what players were added to Montreal in the past year to rebuild the team n

3 years 10 months. Again show me a team that has added more young talent in 3'years 10 months. Also what happened to your seguin predictions. Do u think he will be a top 4 scorer by 25????

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04-22-2013, 08:36 PM
  #369
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All you do is **** all over Burke, nothing else. Nothing. I left a long time ago, and came back and here you are still saying the same ****.

I actually like talking about the team I cheer and love. You?
No... I haven't enjoyed watching the richest team in the league with the most financial advantages turn into the the laughing stock of the sport.
You shouldn't have enjoyed that either.

Instead of turn coating and finding another team... or (even worse) making lame excuses for every idiotic decisions our pathetic GM's have made over the past 7 years...
instead, I've taken the objective realist approach of criticizing the causes for our pathetic results in the standings.

Now that the team FINALLY has turned around (despite 7 seasons managed by idiots) I'm trying to jump back on board with the team I love.
It's just a lot harder when so many fans are praising a GM that took 5 nhl seaons (minus 2 months) to finally make the playoffs despite being the highest paid gm with the most financial advantages.

I will ALWAYS point out the truth in the face of such lies and distortion.
The day leaf fans stop making excuses for that abomination of a GM is the day it will be a lot easier for me to enjoy the team.

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04-22-2013, 08:40 PM
  #370
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I liked Burke. I didn't like that he tried running this team like they were the Phoenix Coyotes. I think Dave Nonis being put in charge was a blessing in disguise.

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04-22-2013, 08:40 PM
  #371
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Brian Burke was not in charge for 10 years. In fact he wasn't even allowed to make moves for 4 full years. That you would attempt to display it as such says a whole lot about the strength of your argument.
Obviously, everyone knows how long Burke was in charge, however the team itself didn't just become an expansion team when Burke arrived contrary to what many supporting Burke's record seem to suggest.

I guess when you cannot see that he isn't responsible for everything it is difficult to see beyond that bias.

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He was the Leafs' leading scorer in the 196364, 196667 and 196970 seasons, and the team's top goal scorer in 197071 and 197273. Keon was considered one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, and one of the best defensive forwards of his era.[3] He would usually play against the opposing team's top centre, and developed a reputation for neutralizing some of the league's top scorers. In 197071, he scored eight shorthanded goals, setting an NHL record.
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04-22-2013, 08:41 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
No... I haven't enjoyed watching the richest team in the league with the most financial advantages turn into the the laughing stock of the sport.
You shouldn't have enjoyed that either.

Instead of turn coating and finding another team... or (even worse) making lame excuses for every idiotic decisions our pathetic GM's have made over the past 7 years...
instead, I've taken the objective realist approach of criticizing the causes for our pathetic results in the standings.

Now that the team FINALLY has turned around (despite 7 seasons managed by idiots) I'm trying to jump back on board with the team I love.
It's just a lot harder when so many fans are praising a GM that took 5 nhl seaons (minus 2 months) to finally make the playoffs despite being the highest paid gm with the most financial advantages.

I will ALWAYS point out the truth in the face of such lies and distortion.
The day leaf fans stop making excuses for that abomination of a GM is the day it will be a lot easier for me to enjoy the team.
Have you posted in the post game bout playoffs thread to congratulate your team you love for making the playoffs? Post # please.

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04-22-2013, 08:42 PM
  #373
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Fletcher didnt "clear the deck"?

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04-22-2013, 08:43 PM
  #374
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If you have to sum up Burkes biggest failures in two words. Those would be: Ron Wilson. I don't know what Burke thought when he kept Ron Wilson.
It is Burke putting personal friendships above the team.

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04-22-2013, 08:44 PM
  #375
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The results are in the pudding DO, that's why people supported Burke. 3 years 10 months and into a 5th place playoff team. One of the youngest to boot. Too bad you spent all that time complaining about nothing,

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