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David Desharnais - "Time for a Change" Edition

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Old
04-21-2013, 11:43 PM
  #176
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by NHLFutureGuy3 View Post
Hey come on, I didn't mean that I actually lost my mind. It's just an expression I used to illustrate that I am really frustrated. Also, I don't think anyone here thinks they have any bit of control over what happens with the Habs. We are just here on these message boards because it's fun to think of what it would be like if we did.

In all honesty though, I think Therrien has made mostly great decisions throughout the course of this season, except for those concerning Desharnais. However, I can't actually do anything about it other than complaining on a message board.
I'm just clarifying, I don't really get frustrated is all.

I think Therrien has surpassed expectations. Does not mean he's perfect but it doesn't mean he's doing things blindly either. We both agree it might've been an attempt to spark the line, let's see if it works and if not, what happens next. I give 2 games together and we need to see something of value.

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04-22-2013, 01:40 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I guess therrien wanted to get them on edge then bring them back and hope it motivated them.

With 3 games left makes more sense to spark a line than try to find new chemistry. Lets see if it pays off.
We will be watching diligently..., I'm sure RDS will mention something.

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04-22-2013, 01:53 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Gallagher is a warrior, but he's still small and having a smaller, softer player on his line does nothing for him...especially since he plays the type of game where he gets mugged after the whistle. As much as size is downplayed on here, it's extremely important. We have 3 players under 5'8 in the top 9. That is a problem.
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
2 players under 5'8 on the same line. Only in Habs land.
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Originally Posted by montreal961 View Post
Desharnais = infinite facepalm

Ridiculous how the Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher line is back together. Gallagher is being wasted on that line.

Boy do i agree with all of this. We're mostly about to face a team with giant D with half of our top 6 being below 5'8".

Gallagher is playing rock solid right now, but he's still way too green and small to play with Pacioretty (A player barely able to take care of himself) and DD (who is not even capable of taking care of himself)

Gallagher is a pest, he gets a lot of hate out there....he is going to get hurt if he doesn't get a little help on his line, and right now . he is not.

Opponent game plan against MTL : Hit them.
Plain and simple.

But here's one thing........and a lot of you will hate myself (even if it's already the case) for writing the following:

Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
(Some size, defense awareness, Offensive upside, special units specialist
and a lot of experience)

Pacioretty-Eller-Ryder
(After 6 years, finally a line with only 6' and more, defensive awareness, offensive upside, special units specialist, some grit, good forechecker and some energy)

Prust-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
(Since out top 2 lines got some defensive awareness, we can use our 3rd line as an offensive weapon with grit. Gallagher and Galchenyuk are protected by Prust, who should really play on the top 9...Gallagher and Prust bring lots of grit and energy, Galchenyuk his talent and some size down the middle and won't get destroy along the boards)

Just tell me one thing:

What dimension DD would bring that the habs absolutely need to be competitive?
What would the habs would be missing with this kind of line up?

Cause when i look at that........i'm getting kind of pissed cause we're:

Better reliable defensive forward
Better grit and energy
Better size
Same talent offensively (Better IMO but surely not less right now)
Better forecheck
Gallagher is protected
At least one bigger line
Galchenyuk take his rightfull place in the middle with less defensive duties cause Eller can take them on the second line

The only problem...one injuries and it's all screwed....
But still....tell me one thing that DD would bring,.....and what he brings should compensate for his lack of size, grit and defensive awareness that he is bringing with him


Last edited by Milhouse40: 04-22-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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04-22-2013, 04:09 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Boy do i agree with all of this. We're mostly about to face a team with giant D with half of our top 6 being below 5'8".

Gallagher is playing rock solid right now, but he's still way too green and small to play with Pacioretty (A player barely able to take care of himself) and DD (who is not even capable of taking care of himself)

Gallagher is a pest, he gets a lot of hate out there....he is going to get hurt if he doesn't get a little help on his line, and right now . he is not.

Opponent game plan against MTL : Hit them.
Plain and simple.

But here's one thing........and a lot of you will hate myself (even if it's already the case) for writing the following:

Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
(Some size, defense awareness, Offensive upside, special units specialist
and a lot of experience)

Pacioretty-Eller-Ryder
(After 6 years, finally a line with only 6' and more, defensive awareness, offensive upside, special units specialist, some grit, good forechecker and some energy)

Prust-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
(Since out top 2 lines got some defensive awareness, we can use our 3rd line as an offensive weapon with grit. Gallagher and Galchenyuk are protected by Prust, who should really play on the top 9...Gallagher and Prust bring lots of grit and energy, Galchenyuk his talent and some size down the middle and won't get destroy along the boards)

Just tell me one thing:

What dimension DD would bring that the habs absolutely need to be competitive?
What would the habs would be missing with this kind of line up?

Cause when i look at that........i'm getting kind of pissed cause we're:

Better reliable defensive forward
Better grit and energy
Better size
Same talent offensively (Better IMO but surely not less right now)
Better forecheck
Gallagher is protected
At least one bigger line
Galchenyuk take his rightfull place in the middle with less defensive duties cause Eller can take them on the second line

The only problem...one injuries and it's all screwed....
But still....tell me one thing that DD would bring,.....and what he brings should compensate for his lack of size, grit and defensive awareness that he is bringing with him
Not disagreeing with you, but if this happens, it'll be next season. Bergevin will not sit a player he just signed to an extension. He'll trade him first (though that is still unlikely). Rarely do GM's pull the old "sign 'n' trade", but I hope he does.
Love DD and all he's accomplished, but he's a wrong fit here. Just my slant.

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04-22-2013, 05:16 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
We will be watching diligently..., I'm sure RDS will mention something.
To be fair, I think you're obsessed. lol So, i'll expect negativity from you regardless of the outcome.

That's not to say there isn't negative aspects or it's impossible he plays below expectations(he currently is for instance).

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04-22-2013, 09:07 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by jwolf View Post
Not disagreeing with you, but if this happens, it'll be next season. Bergevin will not sit a player he just signed to an extension. He'll trade him first (though that is still unlikely). Rarely do GM's pull the old "sign 'n' trade", but I hope he does.
Love DD and all he's accomplished, but he's a wrong fit here. Just my slant.
bang on wrong fit period , hello Calgary

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04-22-2013, 09:17 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Easy. Let me explain.

Therrien's boss, aka Bergevin, just gave Desharnais a freaking four year contract.
Therrien can not make his boss look bad ... Desharnais will keep getting first line duty.

Bergevin f**ked up, and now Therrien has to deal with the backwash.
really fk`d on this one

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04-22-2013, 09:23 PM
  #183
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Not sure how extending someone that can put up .5+ to a 3.5M/4y deal is so bad.
It's a movable contract at the very worst case, but even if you don't move him, you can move DD to the wing and use him as a depth guy that still provides some offense.

Seriously, some of you guys need to freaking go back to the rds talkbacks bs board, or just chill out. The DD hate is way too over the top, and all this because he's short.

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Old
04-22-2013, 10:02 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not sure how extending someone that can put up .5+ to a 3.5M/4y deal is so bad.
It's a movable contract at the very worst case, but even if you don't move him, you can move DD to the wing and use him as a depth guy that still provides some offense.

Seriously, some of you guys need to freaking go back to the rds talkbacks bs board, or just chill out. The DD hate is way too over the top, and all this because he's short.
Or because he sucks and is short.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice and always plays the PP and never does anything on it.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice and always players the PP and never does anything on it and because he can't win face-offs or play defense.

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04-22-2013, 10:46 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Or because he sucks and is short.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice and always plays the PP and never does anything on it.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice and always players the PP and never does anything on it and because he can't win face-offs or play defense.
Always wondered but why does DD's faceoff percentage always seems to crop up into the conversation? He is barely beaten by Pleks, he is barely better than Eller...the only one significantly better is Halpern on this team...well, assuming you don't include headless White...
That is unless you count faceoff percentages as a negative for Pleks or Eller as well... Well, okay, I'll give Pleks a pass since he's 'technically' above 50% (50.2%).

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04-22-2013, 10:46 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
Always wondered but why does DD's faceoff percentage always seems to crop up into the conversation? He is barely beaten by Pleks, he is barely better than Eller...the only one significantly better is Halpern on this team...well, assuming you don't include headless White...
That is unless you count faceoff percentages as a negative for Pleks or Eller as well... Well, okay, I'll give Pleks a pass since he's 'technically' above 50% (50.2%).
Because DD always loses the important draws. Any time he is out there for an icing or a critical PP, or out to tie the game.. he loses the draw.

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04-22-2013, 10:52 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Not sure how extending someone that can put up .5+ to a 3.5M/4y deal is so bad.
It's a movable contract at the very worst case, but even if you don't move him, you can move DD to the wing and use him as a depth guy that still provides some offense.

Seriously, some of you guys need to freaking go back to the rds talkbacks bs board, or just chill out. The DD hate is way too over the top, and all this because he's short.

Moveable contract....are you sure?

I mean, GM's must run after the smallest center of the league. That's what teams are all looking for while teams like the Bruins and Kings are kicking their ass physically.

If he didn't get any better, his value will drop lower than it is now....

I'm not saying the he is not tradeable, cause he could help some teams and can definitely play in the NHL, no doubts here.

But would you get enough in return so the fans will accept this trade??
Can't really trade one of the fan's favorite for a 2nd draft pick either........

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04-22-2013, 10:55 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Moveable contract....are you sure?

I mean, GM's must run after the smallest center of the league. That's what teams are all looking for while teams like the Bruins and Kings are kicking their ass physically.

If he didn't get any better, his value will drop lower than it is now....

I'm not saying the he is not tradeable, cause he could help some teams and can definitely play in the NHL, no doubts here.

But would you get enough in return so the fans will accept this trade??
Can't really trade one of the fan's favorite for a 2nd draft pick either........
Certainly not this board's favourite...

I am pretty sure you would accept a 5th or 6th pick for him.

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04-22-2013, 11:05 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
Certainly not this board's favourite...

I am pretty sure you would accept a 5th or 6th pick for him.
C'mon don't be ridiculous! I was a DD fan because he's always learned to adjust at every level within 1 yr of play. But now he seems to have regressed for the first time in his hockey career. IMO the Habs should hold on to him until he turns it around, which he will, and then trade him when his value is moderately high.

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04-22-2013, 11:05 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Because DD always loses the important draws. Any time he is out there for an icing or a critical PP, or out to tie the game.. he loses the draw.
Err...so you are saying that he only wins the non-important faceoffs while losing all the important ones?

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04-22-2013, 11:06 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Moveable contract....are you sure?

I mean, GM's must run after the smallest center of the league. That's what teams are all looking for while teams like the Bruins and Kings are kicking their ass physically.

If he didn't get any better, his value will drop lower than it is now....

I'm not saying the he is not tradeable, cause he could help some teams and can definitely play in the NHL, no doubts here.

But would you get enough in return so the fans will accept this trade??
Can't really trade one of the fan's favorite for a 2nd draft pick either........
He's a .62 career PPG center with a current cap hit of 850k and cap hit a 3.5 M cap hit for the next 4 years. He's a number 1 center on a team that really has no #1 center.

Tyler Bozak, similar age, similar experience is a .56 career PPG center with a current cap hit of 1.5M and people are talk 5M+ on the UFA market. He's also not a true number 1 center.

So yeah, very tradeable contract.

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04-22-2013, 11:07 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
Certainly not this board's favourite...

I am pretty sure you would accept a 5th or 6th pick for him.
No, but i'm able to see that DD is not the type of players in high demands in the league......just like Gio. All teams will try to find an equal talent with size first or more upsides to their games.

DD could help some teams and even be a force in a couple of them
But he can't help every teams and would suck in a couple of them.
That's market....if there's not a high demands, don't expect to receive a good offer.

Making his contract harder to trade for Bergevin.

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04-22-2013, 11:09 PM
  #193
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And DD might be small, but he has shown he is durable and plays in traffic.

We always need our targets on this board don't we.

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04-22-2013, 11:24 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
No, but i'm able to see that DD is not the type of players in high demands in the league......just like Gio. All teams will try to find an equal talent with size first or more upsides to their games.

DD could help some teams and even be a force in a couple of them
But he can't help every teams and would suck in a couple of them.
That's market....if there's not a high demands, don't expect to receive a good offer.

Making his contract harder to trade for Bergevin.
He's a top-45 scoring center in this league signed for less than $4M. He would not be hard to move whatsoever.

Right now, he's still one of the best "bang-for-your-buck" point producers in the NHL.

And he's struggling on the powerplay. There are lots improvements he needs to make, but he has less big league experience than even Lars Eller.

He's also a top-30 point producing center at even-strength. His powerplay struggles are huge. If he had even 5-more PP points, he'd in the top-30 overall. He's one of he best ES producers on the team though. We do need to find a him a more reliable defensive winger though. Pacioretty, Desharnais and Gallagher all play way too deep in the zone.

People seem to forget that DD has produced at a 51-point pace (career) in less than 200 NHL games. Yes, he's older but it doesn't change the fact that he's still has a relatively young NHL career so far.

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04-22-2013, 11:40 PM
  #195
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Or because he sucks and is short.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice and always plays the PP and never does anything on it.
Or because he sucks and is short and is always on the ice and always players the PP and never does anything on it and because he can't win face-offs or play defense.
Right, he sucks. So, according to different fans of this board.
Before the season started, PK should have been traded for being selfish, and wasn't even top 30 Dman in the NHL.
As the season progressed, MaxPac is annoying, Gionta is crap, DD is crap, Eller was crap at some point, Plek hides when tough gets going, Markov is old wood, Gorges is a crybaby, Price is garbage, Drewiske is barely a NHL player, Emelin is now known as the piece that held everything together, Moen is crap, Armstrong is useless, Prust is our MVP, Bouillon sucks, Bergevin threw this season away..
These are things I've read on this board this year alone, and we're talking about a team that is fighting for the #2 spot in the Eastern conference.

DD does not suck. In what many would consider a very bad year for him, he is scoring at a higher pace than .5. I mean, if that's on a bad year, then he probably doesn't suck all that much after all.

You don't like DD, fine. Still, he doesn't suck. He battles hard, goes in the rough areas, gives it his all, doesn't give lazy effort backed up with cheap excuses, and still puts up a fair number of points.


If you think he's always on the ice, then the problem is Therrien not DD.
I've said it since the beginning of the season, Eller should have taken over DD's spot in the top 6. I also feel DD should have been tried on the wings. I think it's pretty ridiculous that DD-MaxPac are still used on the #1 PP unit. We have 9 very capable offensive players, which is a luxury, but we failed to really utilize them to our best advantage imo.
All that being said, in no way does this mean DD sucks, nor is it his fault.
You just showed that you turned him into your scapegoat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
Moveable contract....are you sure?

I mean, GM's must run after the smallest center of the league. That's what teams are all looking for while teams like the Bruins and Kings are kicking their ass physically.

If he didn't get any better, his value will drop lower than it is now....

I'm not saying the he is not tradeable, cause he could help some teams and can definitely play in the NHL, no doubts here.

But would you get enough in return so the fans will accept this trade??
Can't really trade one of the fan's favorite for a 2nd draft pick either........
Absolutely it's movable.

It's not about getting the best return for him. If it's gone to the point where DD's contract becomes a burden (because that's what I was responding to, people complaining about the extension) on us because he's not living up to what fans think 3.5M should be, then it really doesn't matter what the return is, they just want the contract moved.

Even you acknowledge that some teams could surely use his help and would likely be interested, so yea, it's a movable contract. There's no need to whine about it.
At that price, even if his value drops, it's not a huge contract, I'm sure some teams would be willing to give this guy a 2nd chance.

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04-23-2013, 12:22 AM
  #196
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Right, he sucks. So, according to different fans of this board.
Before the season started, PK should have been traded for being selfish, and wasn't even top 30 Dman in the NHL.
As the season progressed, MaxPac is annoying, Gionta is crap, DD is crap, Eller was crap at some point, Plek hides when tough gets going, Markov is old wood, Gorges is a crybaby, Price is garbage, Drewiske is barely a NHL player, Emelin is now known as the piece that held everything together, Moen is crap, Armstrong is useless, Prust is our MVP, Bouillon sucks, Bergevin threw this season away..
These are things I've read on this board this year alone, and we're talking about a team that is fighting for the #2 spot in the Eastern conference.

DD does not suck. In what many would consider a very bad year for him, he is scoring at a higher pace than .5. I mean, if that's on a bad year, then he probably doesn't suck all that much after all.

You don't like DD, fine. Still, he doesn't suck. He battles hard, goes in the rough areas, gives it his all, doesn't give lazy effort backed up with cheap excuses, and still puts up a fair number of points.


If you think he's always on the ice, then the problem is Therrien not DD.
I've said it since the beginning of the season, Eller should have taken over DD's spot in the top 6. I also feel DD should have been tried on the wings. I think it's pretty ridiculous that DD-MaxPac are still used on the #1 PP unit. We have 9 very capable offensive players, which is a luxury, but we failed to really utilize them to our best advantage imo.
All that being said, in no way does this mean DD sucks, nor is it his fault.
You just showed that you turned him into your scapegoat.



Absolutely it's movable.

It's not about getting the best return for him. If it's gone to the point where DD's contract becomes a burden (because that's what I was responding to, people complaining about the extension) on us because he's not living up to what fans think 3.5M should be, then it really doesn't matter what the return is, they just want the contract moved.

Even you acknowledge that some teams could surely use his help and would likely be interested, so yea, it's a movable contract. There's no need to whine about it.
At that price, even if his value drops, it's not a huge contract, I'm sure some teams would be willing to give this guy a 2nd chance.
0.5 pts/game for DD, who is playing on the #1 line with our top wingers, is HORRIBLE. It's suckitude of the highest order.

One goal for DD in his last 19 games is suckitude of GOMEZ order.

And as far as moving his contract... that will only happen if the Nordiques get back in the NHL. Anyone else will laugh in Bergevin's face!

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04-23-2013, 12:32 AM
  #197
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i think the negative reactions to DD are exaggerated...

but I do wonder what MB envisions down the middle over the next 2 seasons.

Plekanec and Eller are clearly more effective players (i was amazed to see that Eller has the same PP production as DD this year... despite playing 100 fewer minutes on the PP!).

so the question becomes how long does Galchenyuk get used as a winger for?

not too mention how long do you wait before giving Eller consistent PP minutes?

DD being on the roster pushes both of those further away, I can see it for next season (perhaps even somewhat splitting Galch/DD in an offensive line/PP role @ C over the course of the season, alternating one for the other as the centre for that line... injuries excluded of course).

but I can't see the 4 of them co-existing effectively by Galch's 3rd season. If he's to be an NHL centre, than he needs to be playing primarily in that role by then, and I don't see Eller doing anything but improving between now and then.

DD is solid now, but does he have it in him to reach a level of effectiveness that definitively puts him ahead of what those two bring?

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04-23-2013, 12:36 AM
  #198
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0.5 pts/game for DD, who is playing on the #1 line with our top wingers, is HORRIBLE. It's suckitude of the highest order.
Umm...that's a little extreme...if it wasn't, well, all our C's probably fit closely to that level of sucktitude as no one is frankly lighting it up significantly more.
And please don't say, if player A had DD's pp time etc. because if Player A was producing significantly better in even strength then they probably would have DD's pp time.
Actually now that you mention sucktitude, there is a distinct lack of 'elite' level offensive prowess in C. Chucky may get there in time but as of now, meh.
Mind you, this is in no way to say that I don't believe DD should be given less pp time because I think he should get less. I also believe that his line should be shuffled with Patches going elsewhere for at the very least a little while (and if that works, keep it that way).

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04-23-2013, 12:42 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
DD is solid now, but does he have it in him to reach a level of effectiveness that definitively puts him ahead of what those two bring?
Galch? No. Eller? Well, if Eller stalls and DD bounces back, maybe. Personally I think Eller will continue to improve but he probably won't be the powerhouse everyone thinks he would be. DD will most likely bounce back. But what does that mean? We shall see.

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04-23-2013, 12:52 AM
  #200
Rosso Scuderia
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DD's stat is boost up because he gets all opportunities in the world to produce. Not want to discredit him or anything because he did have a decent season but he played with two hot wingers that scored over 30 goals each but in the end, it was in a year that we were dead last in the EC.

He's good but not good enough if our goal is to win the cup, which it is.

Bottom line, I don't want him as our 2nd center. As a third center, I'd rather have a more versatile player.

So if we keep him, he has to be on the wing because I'm not feeling comfortable to have him centering one of the first three lines. I don't think he would be that bad on the wing, I dunno why MT hasn't try yet.

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