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*OFFICIAL* Plymouth Whalers 2012-2013 Season Thread

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04-22-2013, 08:09 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
I believe this kid can steal the series. .
The adage "stealing a series" refers to an unlikely outcome..or an "underdog" winning something they were not suppose to win. Plymouth is no underdog in this series. They are on equal terms with London and have been for the past few seasons. It just took a few years to get the match-up everybody wanted to see.

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04-22-2013, 08:50 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by PhlyerPhanatic View Post
The adage "stealing a series" refers to an unlikely outcome..or an "underdog" winning something they were not suppose to win. Plymouth is no underdog in this series. They are on equal terms with London and have been for the past few seasons. It just took a few years to get the match-up everybody wanted to see.
I agree Plymouth has been very strong in recent years, but Plymouth had no business winning Game 2. 61 saves for the kid and was huge on the PK in overtime. Ned deserves a TON of credit for this type of performance from a rookie goalie. London will try and break his will early next game or the goalie will really start to mess with Londons head. Alot of net presence from London in Game 3, I imagine.

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04-22-2013, 09:18 PM
  #503
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I agree Plymouth has been very strong in recent years, but Plymouth had no business winning Game 2. 61 saves for the kid and was huge on the PK in overtime..
I'm of the opinion London had no business winning game 1...so we're tied 1-1 on games neither team really should have won

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04-22-2013, 10:28 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 View Post
I agree Plymouth has been very strong in recent years, but Plymouth had no business winning Game 2. 61 saves for the kid and was huge on the PK in overtime. Ned deserves a TON of credit for this type of performance from a rookie goalie. London will try and break his will early next game or the goalie will really start to mess with Londons head. Alot of net presence from London in Game 3, I imagine.
I don't think that's necessarily being fair to Plymouth. It was a pretty back and forth game except when the ice was really tilted in London's favor for the first 10 mins of OT, shots were in favor of London 15-3 but Plymouth had some push back the last half of OT.

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04-22-2013, 11:14 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by WhalerBlue View Post
My observations from today were-

1. Way over officiated.
2. Both goalies stood on their heads
3. Both teams missed some prime opportunities.
4 (a). Both teams benefited from missed calls.
4 (b). Both teams had bad calls against them.
5. Both teams solid on defense.
6. Both teams could have ended it in either overtime period.
7. Both teams were/are tired.

Best of 5 starts on Tuesday night.
Totallyagree Except the 2nd "too many men" call on Plymouth was crap - thank God it didnt' decide the game. Here's why officiating has to be so sharp - these teams are very evenly matched (on paper). I think Plymouth is stronger defensively (positional play - working as a team/unit), London is strong offensively (same reason, but Plymouth has more depth and talent on the attack), and London has a teeny-tiny edge in goal only because Ned is so young. Defensively, London relies more heavily on a couple of stars, but the Whalers play team defense a little better imho. Ned's not playing like a rookie, and both teams's defense are stifling. I think London's biggest advantage is the defensive play of their forwards. Breakdowns in Plymouth's defense more often come on lapses by fowards wheras London's breakdowns seem more often on the rear-guard side. Maybe not always, but just seems that way as I watch things unfold.

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04-23-2013, 01:47 AM
  #506
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Since Nedeljkovic's Game 4 loss in Owen Sound to tie that series 2-2 and getting pulled, this is how the 96 born rookie has responded:

Game 5 vs OS shutout/19 saves 1.000
Game 6 vs OS 32 saves/33 shots .970
Game 1 vs LK 29 saves/31 shots .935
Game 2 vs LK 61 saves/64 shots .953

* I think we are witnessing the next really big deal in net for hockey/NHL. His 19-2-1-1 regular season record was astonishing. This is huge for a 20 yr old, let alone a 16, now 17 yr old rookie. His run in February to the end of the regular season was something u just shake your head at and cant believe.

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04-23-2013, 06:01 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Rally Donkey View Post
Totallyagree Except the 2nd "too many men" call on Plymouth was crap - thank God it didnt' decide the game. Here's why officiating has to be so sharp - these teams are very evenly matched (on paper). I think Plymouth is stronger defensively (positional play - working as a team/unit), London is strong offensively (same reason, but Plymouth has more depth and talent on the attack), and London has a teeny-tiny edge in goal only because Ned is so young. Defensively, London relies more heavily on a couple of stars, but the Whalers play team defense a little better imho. Ned's not playing like a rookie, and both teams's defense are stifling. I think London's biggest advantage is the defensive play of their forwards. Breakdowns in Plymouth's defense more often come on lapses by fowards wheras London's
breakdowns seem more often on the rear-guard side. Maybe not always, but just seems that way as I watch things unfold.
That's a good insight, but I think London has better depth at forward. Not entirely sure they're more talented either, in points maybe, but let's remember that points don't necessarily mean talent and just because someone doesn't play to potential that they don't have the talent to do so.

Also as good as Ned is, I don't think you can hoist him as the next big thing in net from a backup role in the reg season (correct?) and 1 playoff run, even as a rookie. Still betting my money on Fucale lol.

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04-23-2013, 07:06 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by kaelanstorm View Post
That's a good insight, but I think London has better depth at forward. Not entirely sure they're more talented either, in points maybe, but let's remember that points don't necessarily mean talent and just because someone doesn't play to potential that they don't have the talent to do so.

Also as good as Ned is, I don't think you can hoist him as the next big thing in net from a backup role in the reg season (correct?) and 1 playoff run, even as a rookie. Still betting my money on Fucale lol.
Referring to Ned as a backup in the regular season is not really accurate. He started the season as the 3rd string goalie and quickly moved to backup when Riley Corbin (another rookie) struggled as the backup. Matt Mahalak began the season as the starter, but he's never been very solid, even when backing up Scott Wedgewood the past two seasons. He once again struggled, this time as the starter, and Nedeljkovic took over the starting role in mid-February after Mahalak was pulled in consecutive outings. Young Alex has really taken to the role, as he has had only one bad outing in the regular season and playoffs combined (getting pulled against OS in the 2nd round).

With that being said, I would not characterize this as Ned "stealing" the series if the Whalers win. He certainly needs to be a big part of the effort, but the team has too much talent and depth for this to be a solo effort by Ned -- if the entire team isn't contributing, London will win the series easily. I will say, though, there is no way Plymouth wins Sunday's game with Mahalak in net.

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04-23-2013, 10:14 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by kaelanstorm View Post
That's a good insight, but I think London has better depth at forward. Not entirely sure they're more talented either, in points maybe, but let's remember that points don't necessarily mean talent and just because someone doesn't play to potential that they don't have the talent to do so.

Also as good as Ned is, I don't think you can hoist him as the next big thing in net from a backup role in the reg season (correct?) and 1 playoff run, even as a rookie. Still betting my money on Fucale lol.
I think Plymouth has better forwards, London might have the talent but some guys aren't performing.

Broadhurst 1g in his last 8 games
Griffith 2g in 11 playoff games
Rupert before injury 1 goal in 7 games
Anderson 1 goal in 11 games
Welychka 1 goal in 6 games

Right there if Rupert is healthy almost half of London's forwards. Not to mention that London doesn't get a lot of offense from the blueline which can put more stress on the fact the forwards aren't producing. Harrington terrific defensive dman but has some of the worst instincts ever on the offensive end. Points doesn't mean talent? But if you're not getting points the team isn't scoring goals either especially with the defense not producing much.

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04-23-2013, 12:31 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I think Plymouth has better forwards, London might have the talent but some guys aren't performing.

Broadhurst 1g in his last 8 games
Griffith 2g in 11 playoff games
Rupert before injury 1 goal in 7 games
Anderson 1 goal in 11 games
Welychka 1 goal in 6 games

Right there if Rupert is healthy almost half of London's forwards. Not to mention that London doesn't get a lot of offense from the blueline which can put more stress on the fact the forwards aren't producing. Harrington terrific defensive dman but has some of the worst instincts ever on the offensive end. Points doesn't mean talent? But if you're not getting points the team isn't scoring goals either especially with the defense not producing much.
So then you would argue Kunitz is one of the best players in the NHL?

Admittedly our forwards aren't producing quite as well as I would hope in the playoffs, but I was mainly talking about overall, reg season and playoffs.

Griffith was injured and is still very shaky after that injury.
Anderson could use a couple goals, but he's rocking it physically and defensively.
Welychka has barely played and his minutes are very low.

Why are you looking at just goals and not points anyways? :p

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04-24-2013, 06:38 AM
  #511
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Wild game last night. Poor defensive play by the Whalers ultimately cost them the game. All three first period Knights goals were from poor positioning (first goal) and turnovers (2 shorthanded goals). The game winner in the 3rd period was also a poor defensive effort, allowing Griffith to skate in all alone.

It will be interesting to see how Plymouth starts out tonight. They need to play in the first period like they did in the 3rd last night.

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04-24-2013, 06:46 AM
  #512
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Wild game last night. Poor defensive play by the Whalers ultimately cost them the game. All three first period Knights goals were from poor positioning (first goal) and turnovers (2 shorthanded goals). The game winner in the 3rd period was also a poor defensive effort, allowing Griffith to skate in all alone.
Thank you for seeing the outcome of the game for what it actually was.

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They need to play in the first period like they did in the 3rd last night.
I hope they do(like they did in the last 7 minutes)...cuz this series will be over Friday if they do

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04-24-2013, 08:21 AM
  #513
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The officials were terrible. They made calls that didn't exist, changed calls and didn't make a call only to issue a penalty five minutes after the fact. That call on Carrick was a joke. I am starting to think that the officials, league wide, really don't care about officiating any games in the U.S. Saginaw gets the same crappy calls and officiating. Why is that? Plymouth made a huge comeback only to have this game decided by the officials. I fully expect that the league will want to suspend half of Plymouth as well as our coaches because they let the officials know how bad they really were. On another topic-Stolarz has nearly perfected the art of knocking his net off the moorings. He did it three times last night and he did it in London and a goal was waved off. Plymouth is a pretty good team, but they will never win this series with the type of officiating that has become the norm in this league. Plymouth' only shot at winning this series will be to score 6 or more goals every game. Plymouth is afraid to get physical as they already get bad calls for non existent penalties. London is pretty good in their own right, but they ain't unbeatable. Being a season ticket holder since Plymouth moved out to Beck road, it is disappointing to see this terrible officiating that wreaks of bias. Games like last night make me think about not renewing. I can't stand watching games where the young men playing the game know more about the rules then the referees and linesman put together. That also can be said for some of our loyal fans that know every rule in the OHL book. Coach Vellucci may have to pay a fine after last night. He agrees with the nearly 3000 Plymouth fans that walked away grumbling.

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04-24-2013, 09:00 AM
  #514
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The officials were terrible. They made calls that didn't exist, changed calls and didn't make a call only to issue a penalty five minutes after the fact. That call on Carrick was a joke. I am starting to think that the officials, league wide, really don't care about officiating any games in the U.S. Saginaw gets the same crappy calls and officiating. Why is that? Plymouth made a huge comeback only to have this game decided by the officials. I fully expect that the league will want to suspend half of Plymouth as well as our coaches because they let the officials know how bad they really were. On another topic-Stolarz has nearly perfected the art of knocking his net off the moorings. He did it three times last night and he did it in London and a goal was waved off. Plymouth is a pretty good team, but they will never win this series with the type of officiating that has become the norm in this league. Plymouth' only shot at winning this series will be to score 6 or more goals every game. Plymouth is afraid to get physical as they already get bad calls for non existent penalties. London is pretty good in their own right, but they ain't unbeatable. Being a season ticket holder since Plymouth moved out to Beck road, it is disappointing to see this terrible officiating that wreaks of bias. Games like last night make me think about not renewing. I can't stand watching games where the young men playing the game know more about the rules then the referees and linesman put together. That also can be said for some of our loyal fans that know every rule in the OHL book. Coach Vellucci may have to pay a fine after last night. He agrees with the nearly 3000 Plymouth fans that walked away grumbling.
The call on Carrick was a crosscheck..and an easy call for the official to make. The Heard play was a bush league play. A linesman can make a major penalty call..and that is exactly what happened. It was the correct call.
Like I've stated numerous times...If you don't want the officials to make calls that you feel decide the outcome of a hockey game...don't put yourself in the position for those calls to be made.
Plymouth unraveled and it all started on their bench..period. Call me a homer..call me whatever you wish..don't care...the bottom line is how you battle adversity makes you a winner. Mettle defines a team.
To squawk and moan every time you feel you've been slighted is the ultimate cop out.

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04-24-2013, 09:46 AM
  #515
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Originally Posted by PhlyerPhanatic View Post
The call on Carrick was a crosscheck..and an easy call for the official to make. The Heard play was a bush league play. A linesman can make a major penalty call..and that is exactly what happened. It was the correct call.
Like I've stated numerous times...If you don't want the officials to make calls that you feel decide the outcome of a hockey game...don't put yourself in the position for those calls to be made.
Plymouth unraveled and it all started on their bench..period. Call me a homer..call me whatever you wish..don't care...the bottom line is how you battle adversity makes you a winner. Mettle defines a team.
To squawk and moan every time you feel you've been slighted is the ultimate cop out.
For all the MMA and boxing fans out there, they will tell you "don't leave it in the hands of the judges". So as stated above, dont' put yourselves in that position. Simple. Bad officiating goes both ways. Funny how nobody can admit that bad officiating happens against the Knights ever, but it always happens against 'your' team when they play the Knights. Its like the Oilers in the 80's....they were so talented that teams had to hook and grab just to keep up...maybe thats what happens here too. Sorry folks, Knights are a good hockey team.
The calls will be poor both ways, so instead of using it as excuses lets just call it a wash and discuss the good parts of the game(s).
Wilson again is leading the charge for the Whale, I would expect more though to step up.

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04-24-2013, 10:41 AM
  #516
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The call on Carrick was a crosscheck..and an easy call for the official to make. The Heard play was a bush league play. A linesman can make a major penalty call..and that is exactly what happened. It was the correct call.
Like I've stated numerous times...If you don't want the officials to make calls that you feel decide the outcome of a hockey game...don't put yourself in the position for those calls to be made.
Plymouth unraveled and it all started on their bench..period. Call me a homer..call me whatever you wish..don't care...the bottom line is how you battle adversity makes you a winner. Mettle defines a team.
To squawk and moan every time you feel you've been slighted is the ultimate cop out.
The Carrick call was a joke. That was weak at best. All calls are easy to make if they actually happen as described in the rulebook. The officials did not have a clue what they were or were not going to do about the Heard deal. These two referees have been in too many games that they either made the wrong call, made controversial calls that never existed or let stuff go that should be called only to make a weak call later. Waiting 3 or 4 minutes to make some kind of call is BS. They give the coaches different explanations of the Heard incident. Hunter gets version 1 and Vellucci gets version 2. Then they recant earlier versions to get their explanations straight amongst the officiating crew. You being a Knights fan are going to say what you feel best serves your interest. I am not calling you a Homer, but you and I must not be watching the same games. I hope that Plymouth comes out tonight and hits everything that moves. They didn't last night and have not since Mistele' suspension from the opening game of the playoffs against Sarnia. Fear is a powerful thing. These players should let it all hang out and whatever calls go against them, so be it. If you are going to get a call against you, make it worth your time and make that penalty legitimate. I will tell you that there were some atrocious weak calls and some of those went against London. Plymouth was terrible in the 1st and part of the 2nd. The 3rd was good but not their best. How can these officials not see intentionally knocking the net off the mooring? They don't want to make that call. Why? They have seen it on several occasions last night and in London as well. Do the Hunter' scare them? Do the Hunter' pay them? I don't know on either count, but the officiating consistency is suspicious at best. Referee #35 has been involved in a ton of suspicious calls, controversial calls and this goes back to the start of the season. Not just with Plymouth, but league wide. He makes calls and ignores others and the appearance is that he gives a team an advantage that should not be there. Some would call that bias. What team is not going to have a performance advantage when they get to go on the PP 8, 9, or 12 times a game? Not many in this league. If these officials are some of the best the league has to offer, then this league has big problems. Every series so far has had atleast one game that was terrible in regards to officiating. There is a common factor in those games. You figure it out. I spent many hours looking at the game sheets, box scores and it didn't take me long to figure out that something is amiss. These things that stick out are not just a Plymouth problem. They have effected several teams this year. Too bad it ruins playoff hockey.

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04-24-2013, 11:21 AM
  #517
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The Carrick call was a joke. That was weak at best. All calls are easy to make if they actually happen as described in the rulebook. The officials did not have a clue what they were or were not going to do about the Heard deal. These two referees have been in too many games that they either made the wrong call, made controversial calls that never existed or let stuff go that should be called only to make a weak call later. Waiting 3 or 4 minutes to make some kind of call is BS. They give the coaches different explanations of the Heard incident. Hunter gets version 1 and Vellucci gets version 2. Then they recant earlier versions to get their explanations straight amongst the officiating crew. You being a Knights fan are going to say what you feel best serves your interest. I am not calling you a Homer, but you and I must not be watching the same games. I hope that Plymouth comes out tonight and hits everything that moves. They didn't last night and have not since Mistele' suspension from the opening game of the playoffs against Sarnia. Fear is a powerful thing. These players should let it all hang out and whatever calls go against them, so be it. If you are going to get a call against you, make it worth your time and make that penalty legitimate. I will tell you that there were some atrocious weak calls and some of those went against London. Plymouth was terrible in the 1st and part of the 2nd. The 3rd was good but not their best. How can these officials not see intentionally knocking the net off the mooring? They don't want to make that call. Why? They have seen it on several occasions last night and in London as well. Do the Hunter' scare them? Do the Hunter' pay them? I don't know on either count, but the officiating consistency is suspicious at best. Referee #35 has been involved in a ton of suspicious calls, controversial calls and this goes back to the start of the season. Not just with Plymouth, but league wide. He makes calls and ignores others and the appearance is that he gives a team an advantage that should not be there. Some would call that bias. What team is not going to have a performance advantage when they get to go on the PP 8, 9, or 12 times a game? Not many in this league. If these officials are some of the best the league has to offer, then this league has big problems. Every series so far has had atleast one game that was terrible in regards to officiating. There is a common factor in those games. You figure it out. I spent many hours looking at the game sheets, box scores and it didn't take me long to figure out that something is amiss. These things that stick out are not just a Plymouth problem. They have effected several teams this year. Too bad it ruins playoff hockey.
Including last nights game..the PP totals are 21-18 in London's favour. Hardly a slanted edge. London lost game 2 on a marginal call..but it was a penalty. It was a penalty 2 minutes into a game..and it was a penalty in overtime. Carrick's call was a crosscheck by definition. Marginal? maybe..but it was still a penalty. I realize every fan will see the game differently, but a penalty is a penalty when it's called no matter the time of the game it's whistled down...it's a discretionary game and you're at the mercy of how any particular official sees the game. The "blame game" is old. I've coached for a number of years and have been on each side. Believe me it can be frustrating, but you have to battle through that sort of thing in order to win.

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04-24-2013, 11:35 AM
  #518
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The call on Carrick was a crosscheck..and an easy call for the official to make. The Heard play was a bush league play. A linesman can make a major penalty call..and that is exactly what happened. It was the correct call.
Like I've stated numerous times...If you don't want the officials to make calls that you feel decide the outcome of a hockey game...don't put yourself in the position for those calls to be made.
Plymouth unraveled and it all started on their bench..period. Call me a homer..call me whatever you wish..don't care...the bottom line is how you battle adversity makes you a winner. Mettle defines a team.
To squawk and moan every time you feel you've been slighted is the ultimate cop out.
You're the absolute king of cliche. Why do you view things in a vacuum? Remember these games are played by teenagers. The call on Carrick was a very poor call, there was an exact type of play in the other end a London player did it to a Plymouth player and there was no call. The Heard call isn't exactly how it went if you listen to Vellucci when originally there wasn't a call. It's easy for a fan of the winning team to say this stuff when they get the benefit of every call even in game 2 for a too many men on the ice call when there was only 5 players on the ice. Why do you always defend the officials? These guys have been awful all series, why can't you just go out and admit?

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04-24-2013, 11:39 AM
  #519
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Big game tonight for the Whalers, if we lose tonight I don't like our chances of winning 3 straight with games 5 and 7 in London. I fully expect the Whalers to play a full 60, and I think they will win. If not though, it's going to be a tough three games to win.

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04-24-2013, 11:40 AM
  #520
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WhalerBlue you don't need to explain anything. At the end of the game Dale was swearing up a storm to the referee and if you notice not a peep is said. The refs will penalize Vellucci, Wilson and Trocheck. I wonder how that stuff is rationalized. Let me guess Dale just giving the officials best wishes?

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04-24-2013, 11:41 AM
  #521
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You're the absolute king of cliche. Why do you view things in a vacuum? Remember these games are played by teenagers. The call on Carrick was a very poor call, there was an exact type of play in the other end a London player did it to a Plymouth player and there was no call. The Heard call isn't exactly how it went if you listen to Vellucci when originally there wasn't a call. It's easy for a fan of the winning team to say this stuff when they get the benefit of every call even in game 2 for a too many men on the ice call when there was only 5 players on the ice. Why do you always defend the officials? These guys have been awful all series, why can't you just go out and admit?
I've been on both sides as a coach. To cry foul everytime you feel slighted is the oldest cop out in the book. Winners win..whiners whine. Where do you fit into that cliche? Bad calls are made in every sport. Live with it..or get a new hobby.

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04-24-2013, 11:41 AM
  #522
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I did not see the Carrick penalty, so I cannot comment on it -- just saw the aftermath of both players laying on the ice behind the net. The biggest issue I had with the officiating was the disallowed goals due to the net getting "dislodged".

However, the Whalers lost because of their defensive play, not the officiating. Giving up two shorthanded goals on the same power play is inexcusable. The team played as poorly in the first period as I have seen all season.

The turning point in the game for London, I think, was an incredible glove save Stolarz made after the Whalers had gone up 4-3. That should have been a goal, but Stolarz made as good a glove save as you will ever see. If that puck goes in, it's 5-3 Plymouth and the game is over.

BTW, I didn't realize Stolarz was that big -- 6'6"! The kid is HUGE! Very unusual to see a goalie that big.

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04-24-2013, 11:46 AM
  #523
PhlyerPhanatic
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Originally Posted by Whalers Fan View Post

However, the Whalers lost because of their defensive play, not the officiating. Giving up two shorthanded goals on the same power play is inexcusable. The team played as poorly in the first period as I have seen all season.
.
Careful...rational thoughts are not allowed

London lost game 2 the same way. Got complacent...gave away too many chances late in a one goal game. Can't do that if you want to win.

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04-24-2013, 11:49 AM
  #524
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I've been on both sides as a coach. To cry foul everytime you feel slighted is the oldest cop out in the book. Winners win..whiners whine. Where do you fit into that cliche? Bad calls are made in every sport. Live with it..or get a new hobby.
I guess as a coach you have never heard of the idea of defending your players and fighting for them to possibly get a call. Why do you act like everybody should be a robot and there's no room in the game for human emotion? Of course it's easy to say those things when your team has been getting a great whistle for the better of 6 or 7 years but don't act like it's easy for these other teams to let it happen.

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04-24-2013, 11:52 AM
  #525
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I guess as a coach you have never heard of the idea of defending your players and fighting for them to possibly get a call. Why do you act like everybody should be a robot and there's no room in the game for human emotion? Of course it's easy to say those things when your team has been getting a great whistle for the better of 6 or 7 years but don't act like it's easy for these other teams to let it happen.
Yes Vellucci has every right to defend his players..and I expect him to. But what I don't expect or respect for that matter is his display that was no less than a clown act. Hunter's action are pathetic when he does it too. It's hard because of emotion in the sport, but I can guarantee you once Vellucci looks back on his actions he will see he displayed his displeasure in the least favourable way. Yes he wants to deflect the issue onto him, but there are less theatrical ways to do it. Nobody can be proud of making a spectacle of themselves like that.

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