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04-22-2013, 05:38 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
You are entitled to your opinion. So are you are willing to pay 5 mill a year for 5 years for that production including his 0 goals in 28 games before the trade?
Love to know how you deduced that from my comment.

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04-22-2013, 05:39 PM
  #552
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Sorry for the wall of text/multiple posts in a row – I was out of town so didn’t check in with these boards until today. If you don’t want to read them; skip it. They are mostly responding to one poster/sentiment anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Has nothing to do with the scoresheet. The shift he got the assist on was his best one but then again he was fresh off the bench against tired panthers players.
Yea - I thought that was a good shift – but I actually thought it was pretty far from his best one; and can see your point about the Panther players being tired, even if I don’t take the same perspective as you do on it.

He had what I’m fairly certain were back to back(?) shifts in the first period of that game that were very solid. The first shift he out hustled two Florida players (one defender, one backchecking forward) to be the second man in a 2 on 1 – Brassard tried to pass and failed. The second shift he created two scoring chances by winning puck battles and making nice, simple passes (Clowe, to Nash, to Moore & Clowe to Brass(? – memory isn’t great)). Add that to the Zucc goal, that he had 3 hits that game, and that he was consistently the first forward back backchecking on his line all game, and I’d say that was a very solid effort.

Obviously, since I missed the first 9 min or so of that game, I missed the bad shift you’re talking about. One bad shift does not mean the whole game was a bad game for the guy though.

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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
He has made some poor decisions with the puck. He made a stupid play icing the puck in the first.
Outside of this shift that you’re referencing – which I didn’t see – I didn’t see any egregious errors or turnovers that he made. Do you have examples, or is this just a general statement that isn’t supported? What other bad decisions did he make in that game (or others)?

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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
He has been very slow out there, getting beat to pucks and space.
I don’t disagree that he is slower. But I don’t think he is slow as in Rupp-slow… The guy has consistently been the first guy back on the back-check, has been able to dig out loose pucks, and join in on the rush. If his speed were god awful, none of those things would be the case.

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He is not using his size against a young and vulnerable team. I can understand you want to look at the good but there's been more bad than good
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I'm not even discussing that from an offensive standpoint. I'm looking at it in the sense that he is too slow to get in and finish a check; by the time he's there it'd be a late hit and/or the play is gone already. That is just not efficient for the type of player he is and what you expect.
I agree that I would like to see him crash the net a bit more (even though he did screen Marty in one of the goals yesterday) – but your statements here just don’t have a basis in reality. In the Florida game he had three hits -- that was better than virtually everyone else on the team. Cally is the only Ranger with more hits than Clowe in the past 10 games – including defenders. Clowe is averaging 2.5 hits per game (25 total in 10 games). Callahan has 33 hits in that time, averaging 3.3 per game. Seems like he’s doing fine finding ways to get physical.

Unfortunately, I didn’t see the Buffalo or NJD games this weekend (was traveling Friday evening and Sunday afternoon). But from what I saw in the Florida game and limited replays, he was also consistently the first forward on his line getting back on the back-check (and though I wasn’t paying quite as close attention in the games prior to this – he seemed to do a decent job defensively in those games as well). He’s clearly finding a way to stay in position on that side of the puck. He is a +8 in the past 10 games.

Even the ****** goal he got on Miller the other night – yes it was gift wrapped for him – but that was the result of him forechecking hard and getting himself into the right position.

He has been a part of a few odd man rushes…

So where are these plays that his speed is preventing him from being a part of?


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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
So do we say the same for Richards? Did we say the same for Drury? Clowe is on the wrong side of 30, getting slower and less effective. The past is the past.
Yes, for the most part many would say the same thing for those two. Drury had multiple years to turn it around, and wasn’t actually all that bad his first couple seasons here. He was beat down in the end by his body deteriorating which was what led to the bad production. Richards, even though he has been the fan favorite (myself included) whipping boy this year, has never – among the reasonable people – been suggested as a buyout candidate for this summer. Everyone has been incredibly pissed – rightfully so – with his performance this year; but from what I’ve seen, are willing to give him a chance next season without the wackiness that comes with a lockout shortened season. So yea – he also gets a pass for a down year. I see the concern about Clowe and his physical game – but the Rangers are in a better position than us to determine whether his injury issues this season will be persistent or not.

Again, no one is saying that these guys will get better – that is nave at this point in their careers. Nor are the proponents of keeping Clowe realistically saying he returns to 70 pt form. At best, the most you can reasonably expect is somewhere in the range of 45-50 pts. In my eyes, that is more than solid for a guy who brings everything else he does to the team and more than worth $4 – 4.5 mil per year for a few years.

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I don't see him being a 30 goal scorer for this team. I don't see him being a 25 goal scorer. I see POSSIBLY 20 goals and 25-30 assists.
He has never in his career been a 30 goal scorer. There were only thirty players last year who scored 30 or more goals… That said, he hasn’t ever cracked 25 goals either – though he has been on pace for it over 82 games in two seasons. So I don’t get where either of these #s are coming from.

If anyone was anticipating those numbers, they are delusional – I agree. But he is more than capable of putting up 15-20 goals and 25-30 assists. In his worst career year he outpaced that production. I can understand concern that his production will continue to slip slightly, but I feel like the hysteria over this is coming from misconstrued or misguided expectations of what kind of player he is and the pt production that can be expected from him.


Last edited by Richter Scale: 04-22-2013 at 05:52 PM.
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Old
04-22-2013, 05:40 PM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
He has 2 goals in 36 games.
Why is there a need to justify Clowe as a top 6 player, when he clearly hasnt been one, just so we can sign him to a contract that will inevitably be too high with too much term?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
You are entitled to your opinion. So are you are willing to pay 5 mill a year for 5 years for that production including his 0 goals in 28 games before the trade?
This has been repeated ad infinitum already… but I’ll say it again: He was playing through an injury that was clearly affecting him from the beginning of the season through when SJS forced him to take some time off to recuperate (after their March 16 game). If you had seen him play at any point in his career (even his down year last year) and compared it to his first 20 to 25 games this year, you would realize that something was up.

Lo-and-behold, he takes ten days off to heal, and comes back and has now scored 10 points in 13 games.

Now, that is obviously a small sample size – and a better ppg pace than you can probably realistically expect him to put up moving forward – but it shows the type of player he can be when healthy. Stop with the “ZOMG ZERO GOALS IN 25 GAMES” meme. It is just foolish.

I would argue he has absolutely been a top 6 player. There were only 30 players last year who scored 30 or more goals in the season. Every single one of them who wasn’t on an ELC or wasn’t an RFA was paid above $4.5 mil per – most well above. Even in a career low year last year, there were only 115 forwards who had more total points than him. This is obviously simplifying it a bit - since some teams will have more talent than others and the total point metric doesn’t include injuries – but with 30 teams, the top two lines of every team are composed of 180 players. If you’re simply placing players on lines based on pt production, he was in the top third of second line players in a down year for him.

Name me more than a handful of third liners who have consistently put up 45+ pts in a season.

But we won’t know what the contract terms are until he signs one… it is a legitimate concern, but there really is no point for blowing a gasket assuming he will be signed for $5 or $6 mil until or unless Sather actually does that. No one here wants him signed for that much. Stop putting words in people’s mouths and using it as a straw man argument.


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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Pointless in 5 out of 7 games.
And now he’s got points in 5 out of 10 games! Points in 3 of the last 3 games! 7 of the last 13 since he returned from injury! Look what fun we can have with small sample sizes!


Last edited by Richter Scale: 04-22-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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04-22-2013, 05:48 PM
  #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Love to know how you deduced that from my comment.
I asked you a question regarding the contract terms he reportedly wants. I did not make a deduction. You must like to argue.

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04-22-2013, 05:51 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
I asked you a question regarding the contract terms he reportedly wants. I did not make a deduction. You must like to argue.
Do I give him 5 per for 5? Of course not.

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04-22-2013, 05:59 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Do I give him 5 per for 5? Of course not.
So what would you give him at his age?

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04-22-2013, 06:01 PM
  #557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickyfotiu View Post
so what would you give him at his age?
3.8 - 4 @ 5.

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04-22-2013, 06:12 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
3.8 - 4 @ 5.
It may end up something like that. I'd prefer 3 years at 3-3.5mill a year but I realize that is unlikely.

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04-22-2013, 06:15 PM
  #559
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Sather had better be smart in this deal...there will be no way out of another bad deal . In 3 years time...he will be almost designated goon status with virtually no speed or offense to offer us...and just what is that worth...a Million by then that 3rd year ? .

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04-22-2013, 11:52 PM
  #560
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I don't touch him at 4m unless he wants one year. He's not worth what Cally is getting

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04-23-2013, 12:38 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I don't touch him at 4m unless he wants one year. He's not worth what Cally is getting
Cally is getting slightly more and his contract will end next season. I see Cally getting 4.5-5 mil per season.

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04-25-2013, 07:53 PM
  #562
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Concussion??

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04-26-2013, 09:19 AM
  #563
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Brooks reporting its a leg injury -- not so sure about that.

Regardless, this could be a blessing in disguise. No reason to re-sign this old tomato can.

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04-26-2013, 10:10 AM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Brooks reporting its a leg injury -- not so sure about that.

Regardless, this could be a blessing in disguise. No reason to re-sign this old tomato can.
So two high picks for a rental, or 3 so we can have the honor of overpaying for another guy on his way down.

Alot has changed around here.....

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04-26-2013, 10:16 AM
  #565
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So two high picks for a rental, or 3 so we can have the honor of overpaying for another guy on his way down.

Alot has changed around here.....
Clowe will be a fascinating study on if management has changed.

Cut the losses, please. Giving up multiple picks for the guy is done - don't let that rope you into giving a bad contract too.

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04-26-2013, 10:17 AM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Clowe will be a fascinating study on if management has changed.

Cut the losses, please. Giving up multiple picks for the guy is done - don't let that rope you into giving a bad contract too.
I think the interesting thing to see is if Clowe's reported asking price has to come back to reality after a season when his production has declined again and dealing with injuries.

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04-26-2013, 10:19 AM
  #567
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I think the interesting thing to see is if Clowe's reported asking price has to come back to reality after a season when his production has declined again and dealing with injuries.
Yup. If the guy is willing to take a 1-2 year deal to prove himself, Sather should listen.

At this point, I wouldnt touch 3 years with a 10 foot pole.

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04-26-2013, 10:21 AM
  #568
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Yup. If the guy is willing to take a 1-2 year deal to prove himself, Sather should listen.

At this point, I wouldnt touch 3 years with a 10 foot pole.
Doubt that he takes very little then signs for 3 years. 2 years max at a low price, and even that might not be good enough for a guy who thinks his worth is still at its peak.

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04-26-2013, 10:36 AM
  #569
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What is the going rate for dinosaur speed & cement hands & concussed type guys these days ??? Please walk away Sather....walk quickly . I think Haley can do everything he does under a good teacher or possibly somebody else a bit younger and cheaper .

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04-26-2013, 10:59 AM
  #570
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I'm very afraid of what we might offer him. I really hope we don't end up with a guy well past his prime on a big fat contract for several years.

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04-26-2013, 11:01 AM
  #571
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What is the going rate for dinosaur speed & cement hands & concussed type guys these days ??? Please walk away Sather....walk quickly . I think Haley can do everything he does under a good teacher or possibly somebody else a bit younger and cheaper .
Not sure Haley is a top 9 forward. And, warts and all, Clowe is. Also seems like Haley is not a favorite with the powers that be (my own speculation).

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04-26-2013, 11:19 AM
  #572
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Like how they are saying right leg injury when he was putting weight on both legs lol.

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04-26-2013, 11:25 AM
  #573
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3 years at $3.5 mill a year is all I would do.

4 years is a stretch. Forget 5.

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04-27-2013, 05:33 PM
  #574
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wrong thread lol.

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04-29-2013, 04:26 PM
  #575
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
3 years at $3.5 mill a year is all I would do.

4 years is a stretch. Forget 5.
Clowe is damaged goods, who just got more damaged playing here. You'd give him 3 years? Easy crowd.

Im not even getting into that, outside of a game or 2, he really hasnt played that well for the Rangers.

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