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2013-14 Flyers Overhaul

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Old
04-22-2013, 01:12 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by leftwinglocker View Post
Make a small deal for AHL Binghamton "C" - Mark Borowiecki (or offer sheet him this summer) Very underrated D man. 23 yr old Captain, AHL all star in his rookie year. Nasty, nasty guy to play against - ask guys on the Phantoms. Low cap hit, lots of upside. High end 5/6 right now, could easily end up being a 3/4. Would be a perfect Flyer (and would make us Clarkson alumn really, really happy)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7tS8T2OehE
there's absolutely no reason to send an offer sheet to someone like him.

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04-22-2013, 01:15 PM
  #602
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Hossa is rumored as a buy out candidate.
Zero % chance Hossa gets bought out

He would have to go thru waivers (He wouldn't clear) and a lot of teams would love to take him off Hawks hands knowing the Hawks would get screwed down line by his cap hit

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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
I doubt that. They have two guys burried in the minors who are more worthy of a buy-out than Hossa: Olesz and Montador. They may not buy-out Olesz though, since he only has one year left

Hossa's contract is too long to buy-out, plus he's still productive
Olesz and Monty gone in summer at this point

Unless a team is willing to take either in summer via trade they will be compliance

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04-22-2013, 01:19 PM
  #603
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yes, but this is what you're hoping will happen. Things don't always work out if you're banking in on hopes and dreams.
Kane makes 6.3M now
Toews makes 6.3M now

They will likely get bumped to 8M

So adding 3.4M to cap hit of Hawks core isn't a drastic cost

Bolland + Hjalmarsosn + Crawford are UFA's after 2014 = 9.5M in free cap room
Oduya is UFA in 2015 = 3.38M in free cap room

Outside of Saad in coming years there wont be any more big $$$ young guns for Hawks unless TT or Danault light it up

Bolland/Hjalmarsson/Oduya are all replaceable from Hawks organization ,, There is no doubt that Kane/Toews will be easily locked down longterm

Stan Bowman got Hawks out of cap hell and is showing no signs of putting team back into it ,,, He has designated a core (Sharp/Hossa/Kane/Toews/Keith/Seabrook) and has brought in some young talent that it is hoped become longterm core pieces (Leddy/Saad)

He has shown no signs of changing up his ways which is build from within to support core talent

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04-22-2013, 01:20 PM
  #604
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If the Flyers buy out Bričre and are able to deal Meszaros for a pick or prospect (ie, no significant salary coming back), what about swinging a deal for Dan Boyle (could theoretically include Meszaros in the deal)? He'll be on the last year of his contract at $6.7 mil. Alternatively, I'm thinking of signing someone like Gonchar or Streit to ~$5–6 mill, but for just next season.

My rationale is to have a bridging top-line defender while the Flyers integrate and assess their young D options. If a defenseman like Nurse, Zadorov or Ristolainen is selected, I'm a big proponent of them spending at least next season in the minors. Gustafsson should be part of next season's opening line-up, and hopefully will be given reasonable minutes, especially on the PP. Having a veteran on the top pairing alleviates the pressure to rush anyone along. However, the caveat is to only sign them for 1 year. The increase in D salary is only $1-2 mil with the moving of Meszaros, and it adds stability to the top of the roster.
I don't hate either of those ideas--but I don't think you could get Streit on a 1-year contract. I believe he wants 3 x $5.5--and I'd assume he'd settle for less AAV before giving up the additional years.

Not sure why the Sharks would move Boyle while taking Meszaros back--and of course it would depend on the price, which could be considerable, as Boyle could, at minimum, be a valuable trade deadline bargaining chip.

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04-22-2013, 01:32 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
If the Flyers buy out Bričre and are able to deal Meszaros for a pick or prospect (ie, no significant salary coming back), what about swinging a deal for Dan Boyle (could theoretically include Meszaros in the deal)? He'll be on the last year of his contract at $6.7 mil. Alternatively, I'm thinking of signing someone like Gonchar or Streit to ~$5–6 mill, but for just next season.

My rationale is to have a bridging top-line defender while the Flyers integrate and assess their young D options. If a defenseman like Nurse, Zadorov or Ristolainen is selected, I'm a big proponent of them spending at least next season in the minors. Gustafsson should be part of next season's opening line-up, and hopefully will be given reasonable minutes, especially on the PP. Having a veteran on the top pairing alleviates the pressure to rush anyone along. However, the caveat is to only sign them for 1 year. The increase in D salary is only $1-2 mil with the moving of Meszaros, and it adds stability to the top of the roster.
Personally, I'd rather not go the route of Streit or Boyle. I don't know about others on here, but my personal preference would be to let the younger players play. They're going to need the ice time and bringing in a guy like Boyle or Streit cuts into their development time and we'll never know if the younger players are ready by making a move like that. Having a top four of Timonen, Schenn, Grossmann and Gustafsson works and then a third pairing of Lauridsen and Huskins works. Gus and Oli are sheltered by good defensive partners and they'll continue to get much needed ice time.

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04-22-2013, 01:42 PM
  #606
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Personally, I'd rather not go the route of Streit or Boyle. I don't know about others on here, but my personal preference would be to let the younger players play. They're going to need the ice time and bringing in a guy like Boyle or Streit cuts into their development time and we'll never know if the younger players are ready by making a move like that. Having a top four of Timonen, Schenn, Grossmann and Gustafsson works and then a third pairing of Lauridsen and Huskins works. Gus and Oli are sheltered by good defensive partners and they'll continue to get much needed ice time.
Well, at least for Boyle, his premise was that Meszaros would be moved, so presumably there would still be a slot for Gustafsson:

Timonen-Schenn
Boyle-Coburn
Gustafsson-Grossmann

I can't really imagine going into the season with Lauridsen or Huskins penciled into the line-up, let alone put there together. I'd prefer Lauridsen go back to Adirondack for regular minutes; Huskins is fine as a 7th defenseman / fill-in.

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04-22-2013, 01:43 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Zero % chance Hossa gets bought out

He would have to go thru waivers (He wouldn't clear) and a lot of teams would love to take him off Hawks hands knowing the Hawks would get screwed down line by his cap hit
I was under the impression that compliance buyouts don't have to go through waivers. The Gomez/Redden buyouts, however, were a special arrangement between the NHLPA and NHL that required a waiver proicess because they were in-season moves and thus could have unfairly impacted competitive balance.

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04-22-2013, 01:46 PM
  #608
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I was under the impression that compliance buyouts don't have to go through waivers. The Gomez/Redden buyouts, however, were a special arrangement between the NHLPA and NHL that required a waiver proicess because they were in-season moves and thus could have unfairly impacted competitive balance.
This was also my impression--but I've seen a bunch of people suggest otherwise.

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04-22-2013, 01:46 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Personally, I'd rather not go the route of Streit or Boyle. I don't know about others on here, but my personal preference would be to let the younger players play. They're going to need the ice time and bringing in a guy like Boyle or Streit cuts into their development time and we'll never know if the younger players are ready by making a move like that. Having a top four of Timonen, Schenn, Grossmann and Gustafsson works and then a third pairing of Lauridsen and Huskins works. Gus and Oli are sheltered by good defensive partners and they'll continue to get much needed ice time.
Huskins is gone after the year. Homer pretty much said so himself along with Hall. He wasn't too keen on re-signing the replacement players he had to bring in for all the injuries. Rosehill provides us with a heavyweight, which we always carry at a low price. That's the only reason he was re-signed. Also Rosehill can also at least skate unlike Shelley. So he is somewhat usable.

Now if you want to go with a d group of

Timonen-Schenn
Grossmann-Gus
Lars-whoever(not Huskins)

That my friends is how we will win the lottery. This isn't the same pairings that we had when Pronger and Kimmo would anchor our top 2 pairs and play 25-30 minutes a night back in 2010. With that defense there is no way of making any kind of deep playoff run. Management won't be happy with that. Personally if we went into the year with a defense like that, I wouldn't be happy. Lars played well in his call up, but we all can see he needs some more grooming. He isn't quite ready to take substantial minutes as a 5-6 defender.

I made a case to sign Streit because he is older yes, but he started in the NHL at the age of 27. He is having one of his better seasons on the Islanders right now and is also a captain. His leadership will help younger players ease into their roles. 2 years would be perfect but his agent(according to reports) wants 3 years at 5.5 million per. If we move Coburn, he would fit very well into our d group.

A lot relies on Mez though. If we trade him, we will get next to nothing back because of his injuries the past few years. He has more value to us rebounding and having a comeback year for us than in trade. If he does make a comeback, and we are out of the playoffs, he would be a nice trading piece as well.

My defense for next year(at least what I would try for)

Kimmo-Schenn
Streit-Gus
Grossmann-Mez

3rd pairing can play a good amount of time and give Kimmo and Streit a rest. The only way I want to move Coburn though is if we make a move at the draft to get Streits rights. Give the Islanders a 3rd rounder(just a guess at his value, maybe less) and work out a deal. Then we have the power to trade Coburn. I know Coburn takes a beating around here, but if he really was put on the block, half the league would be calling for him. We should just take the best offer.

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04-22-2013, 01:54 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Huskins is gone after the year. Homer pretty much said so himself along with Hall. He wasn't too keen on re-signing the replacement players he had to bring in for all the injuries. Rosehill provides us with a heavyweight, which we always carry at a low price. That's the only reason he was re-signed. Also Rosehill can also at least skate unlike Shelley. So he is somewhat usable.

Now if you want to go with a d group of

Timonen-Schenn
Grossmann-Gus
Lars-whoever(not Huskins)

That my friends is how we will win the lottery. This isn't the same pairings that we had when Pronger and Kimmo would anchor our top 2 pairs and play 25-30 minutes a night back in 2010. With that defense there is no way of making any kind of deep playoff run. Management won't be happy with that. Personally if we went into the year with a defense like that, I wouldn't be happy. Lars played well in his call up, but we all can see he needs some more grooming. He isn't quite ready to take substantial minutes as a 5-6 defender.

I made a case to sign Streit because he is older yes, but he started in the NHL at the age of 27. He is having one of his better seasons on the Islanders right now and is also a captain. His leadership will help younger players ease into their roles. 2 years would be perfect but his agent(according to reports) wants 3 years at 5.5 million per. If we move Coburn, he would fit very well into our d group.

A lot relies on Mez though. If we trade him, we will get next to nothing back because of his injuries the past few years. He has more value to us rebounding and having a comeback year for us than in trade. If he does make a comeback, and we are out of the playoffs, he would be a nice trading piece as well.

My defense for next year(at least what I would try for)

Kimmo-Schenn
Streit-Gus
Grossmann-Mez

3rd pairing can play a good amount of time and give Kimmo and Streit a rest. The only way I want to move Coburn though is if we make a move at the draft to get Streits rights. Give the Islanders a 3rd rounder(just a guess at his value, maybe less) and work out a deal. Then we have the power to trade Coburn. I know Coburn takes a beating around here, but if he really was put on the block, half the league would be calling for him. We should just take the best offer.
I still don't understand trading Coburn to sign Streit. I think you sign Streit to play with Coburn (on the assumption you are dumping Meszaros).

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04-22-2013, 01:58 PM
  #611
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I still don't understand trading Coburn to sign Streit. I think you sign Streit to play with Coburn (on the assumption you are dumping Meszaros).
I don't think you can trade Mez. His injuries killed his trade value. They won't use a buyout on him for one year either. Well at least they shouldn't. Hopefully, which pretty much is the only reasonable thing the Flyers can do, is hope Mez bounces back from his injuries.

If they could move Mez though, I would be all for it to be honest. I just don't think they would be capable of it.

Kimmo-Schenn
Streit-Coburn
Grossmannnnn-Gus

That would be an ideal realistic lineup, just don't think it is that has a great chance of happening.

A team that might look hard at Coburn is Edmonton as well. MacT said he will not be patient, and we all know what an impatient GM has the capabilities of doing. I would get on the line with hi and see if there is any interest in him. Then try working a deal out if there is.

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04-22-2013, 02:11 PM
  #612
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I don't think you can trade Mez. His injuries killed his trade value. They won't use a buyout on him for one year either. Well at least they shouldn't. Hopefully, which pretty much is the only reasonable thing the Flyers can do, is hope Mez bounces back from his injuries.
He wont' return anything of value, that's for certain, but I'm not sure he's truly unmovable. The Islanders and Jets both have a long ways to go to get to the cap floor next year--I could imagine a scenario where they give up a conditional mid-round pick (based on games player or whatever).

Heck, I'd sooner the Flyers give Meszaros the "Upshall" treatment than trade Coburn for futures--which is basically the return he would yield.

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04-22-2013, 04:53 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
He wont' return anything of value, that's for certain, but I'm not sure he's truly unmovable. The Islanders and Jets both have a long ways to go to get to the cap floor next year--I could imagine a scenario where they give up a conditional mid-round pick (based on games player or whatever).

Heck, I'd sooner the Flyers give Meszaros the "Upshall" treatment than trade Coburn for futures--which is basically the return he would yield.
I don't think the Flyers can afford to do any more "Upshall" treatments. They need to restock the system and adding a second round pick to a player just to receive a marginal player in return does no good.

With regards to Coburn, now that MacTavish is running the show in Edmonton and he's pretty much said that they're going to shake things up there, I'd be interested in seeing what he's willing to part with for Coburn. For instance, if MacTavish is offering Martin Marcinin and a draft pick, I'd strongly consider, especially with Marcinin having a very strong year in the AHL. Marcinin is also a 6'4, 200 pound defenseman, so it's not as if any size is being lost and he's putting up good offensive numbers in AHL.

There's so many ways the Flyers can go, if they decide to do a full on rebuild.

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04-22-2013, 05:11 PM
  #614
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I don't think the Flyers can afford to do any more "Upshall" treatments. They need to restock the system and adding a second round pick to a player just to receive a marginal player in return does no good.
I'm not advocating it. I'm simply saying that it is a better way to clear salary than trading Coburn for futures.

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04-22-2013, 06:27 PM
  #615
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Trades

So who do we really think will be gone? I like to Briere,Mes and maybe Hartnell. so we'll need to pick up scoring and a solid Vet D/man. Like to see kids play more and Bryz to go next summer after we return to playoffs and win cup!!!!!!!!!

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04-22-2013, 06:40 PM
  #616
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Lets talk about who's safe not who's gonna go. i don't think anyones safe but giroux. i think there's gonna be some major changes this summer. missin the playoffs is the worst thing a flyers team can do. we have some really good assets to upgrade. who we kiddin. we all know we, the fans, and the flyers themselves don't have the patience to wait it out another year and just "hope".

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04-22-2013, 07:07 PM
  #617
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Lets talk about who's safe not who's gonna go. i don't think anyones safe but giroux. i think there's gonna be some major changes this summer. missin the playoffs is the worst thing a flyers team can do. we have some really good assets to upgrade. who we kiddin. we all know we, the fans, and the flyers themselves don't have the patience to wait it out another year and just "hope".
To think Giroux is the only safe one is assanine. Voracek clearly shows he deserves to be on this team, along with others like Luke Schenn, Simmer, Gus, and a few more.

The most important part of the offseason, IMO, is retooling the defense.

I would hope young players will take extra steps in their games next year including B. Schenn, Couts, and Read (assuming they're all here). Because this shortened season we had no consistency in anything besides special teams.

I wanna see this team excel in consistency with their offense or defense next year, and see improvments.

The more likely scenario is we will get our offensive mojo back, but Holmgrem will definately not stand pat and needs to do his job to make this team better.

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04-22-2013, 07:23 PM
  #618
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Just among roster players currently under contract for next season...

Completely safe:
Claude Giroux
Jakub Voracek
Wayne Simmonds
Brayden Schenn
Zac Rinaldo
Jay Rosehill
Luke Schenn
Nicklas Grossmann
Kimmo Timonen
Steve Mason

Not entirely safe:
Sean Couturier
Scott Hartnell
Maxime Talbot
Braydon Coburn
Matt Read

Unsafe:
Ilya Bryzgalov
Andrej Meszaros

In Pripyat:
Daniel Briere


Last edited by orange is better: 04-22-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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04-22-2013, 07:32 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Just among roster players currently under contract for next season...

Completely safe:
Claude Giroux
Jakub Voracek
Wayne Simmonds
Brayden Schenn
Zac Rinaldo
Jay Rosehill
Luke Schenn
Nicklas Grossmann
Kimmo Timonen
Steve Mason

Not entirely safe:
Sean Couturier
Scott Hartnell
Maxime Talbot
Braydon Coburn
Matt Read

Unsafe:
Ilya Bryzgalov
Andrej Meszaros

In Pripyat:
Daniel Briere
I can't imagine them trading Hartnell--not two years removed from a career year, with only this truncated monstrosity in the interim. Particularly if they let Briere go, I think they'll want at least one top-9 forward over the age of 27.

I'd also be surprised if Meszaros is moved--unless he's simply cap space in a bigger deal, or we pay someone to take him in order to make a bigger deal.

Otherwise, that list looks about right.

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04-22-2013, 07:50 PM
  #620
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Just among roster players currently under contract for next season...

Completely safe:
Claude Giroux
Jakub Voracek
Wayne Simmonds
Brayden Schenn
Zac Rinaldo
Jay Rosehill
Luke Schenn
Nicklas Grossmann
Kimmo Timonen
Steve Mason

Not entirely safe:
Sean Couturier
Scott Hartnell
Maxime Talbot
Braydon Coburn
Matt Read

Unsafe:
Ilya Bryzgalov
Andrej Meszaros

In Pripyat:
Daniel Briere
That's a pretty accurate list I'd say. I can't possibly imagine Briere or really Meszaros for that matter coming back next year, Bryz is iffy, and the not entirely safe list are guys that will only be moved out for the right price. I can't see more than two of them being moved, and it would likely either be for a 1st this year+ prospect or a PMD.

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04-22-2013, 07:51 PM
  #621
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No one is safe.

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04-22-2013, 08:23 PM
  #622
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In Pripyat:
Daniel Briere
Hahaha. I approve.

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04-22-2013, 08:44 PM
  #623
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Personally, I'd rather not go the route of Streit or Boyle. I don't know about others on here, but my personal preference would be to let the younger players play. They're going to need the ice time and bringing in a guy like Boyle or Streit cuts into their development time and we'll never know if the younger players are ready by making a move like that. Having a top four of Timonen, Schenn, Grossmann and Gustafsson works and then a third pairing of Lauridsen and Huskins works. Gus and Oli are sheltered by good defensive partners and they'll continue to get much needed ice time.
I know we want younger, but fact is a lot of teams that have these young guys aren't giving them up for a song and dance. They're going to ask for a significant return, which is going to significantly weaken the team's chances of competing. And it's not as if 35/36 for an offensive defenseman is all that old (when compared to a stay-at-home defenseman).

When the Penguins won their Cup in '09, Gonchar was about 35 years old - or roughly the same age as Streit and Boyle today. His partner, Orpik, was about 28, or roughly the same age as Grossmann. If somehow the Flyers could swap some of our question marks for proven puckmoves, this team gets a whole lot better for hardly any investment at all. What's more, each offensive defenseman is just about guaranteed a big-ass, young, stay-at-home defenseman to compliment his style. (We have that many.) The young guys are going to be doing virtually all the heavy lifting!

1) Trade Briere or buy him out... whatever.
2) Buy out Bryzgalov.
3) Draft well this season.
4) Move Mez before he slips a disc picking up a cracker.
5) Acquire a Boyle/Streit.

Timonen-Schenn
Grossmann-Boyle
Gustafsson-Coburn

Mason

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04-23-2013, 03:38 AM
  #624
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Lets offer sheet OEL
Lets offer sheet Pietrangelo
Lets offer sheet Shattenkirk
Sign Corey Perry for 5m
Sign Jimmy Howard for 4m
Insanity....
Can we just draft and develop our own players and NOT trade them for once???

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04-23-2013, 06:50 AM
  #625
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I can't imagine them trading Hartnell--not two years removed from a career year, with only this truncated monstrosity in the interim. Particularly if they let Briere go, I think they'll want at least one top-9 forward over the age of 27.

I'd also be surprised if Meszaros is moved--unless he's simply cap space in a bigger deal, or we pay someone to take him in order to make a bigger deal.

Otherwise, that list looks about right.
Hartnell's contract is going to look real ugly in like 2-3 years but yeah I think he's safe.

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