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2013 Draft Discussion Part 2

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Old
04-23-2013, 09:12 AM
  #976
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On paper we should go 0-3. With that being said, we're going 2-1.

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04-23-2013, 09:20 AM
  #977
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A modest proposal for future drafts: Two lotteries, one for the 1st pick, the other for the 2nd.

For the first overall, retain the existing formula--worst team has a 25 percent chance, etc. For the 2nd overall, list the 14 non-playoff teams by their records over the last 10 games (NHL.com keeps this stat anyway), and use the same formula for a lottery (in other words, the team that misses the playoffs but has the best late-season record has a 25 percent chance to jump to 2nd overall--it would have to be tweaked a bit, since there would only be 13 teams eligible after the 1st overall draw (the team that wins that, obviously can't win 2nd as well).

After the 1st and 2nd slots are determined, the rest of the draft order follows the inverted regular season standings. So no team could drop more than two lines, instead of the existing 1.

Thoughts? I came up with this over two pieces of raisin bread and a glass of orange juice. It probably needs work.

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04-23-2013, 09:28 AM
  #978
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I wonder if there's any chance we'd think about making a trade for the #1 overall. It seems like it could happen.

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04-23-2013, 09:28 AM
  #979
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Just get rid of the lottery all together. Never liked it. The team with the worst record holds the pick. Same rules beyond that though, like no team can select 1st overall 3 times in a row I believe it is.

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04-23-2013, 09:29 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Just get rid of the lottery all together. Never liked it. The team with the worst record holds the pick. Same rules beyond that though, like no team can select 1st overall 3 times in a row I believe it is.
Hall, RNH, Yakupov.....

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04-23-2013, 09:32 AM
  #981
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I wonder if there's any chance we'd think about making a trade for the #1 overall. It seems like it could happen.
Not trying to be rude, but how does it seem like it could happen? There hasn't been any indication or such regarding the first overall because nobody even knows who holds it?

I could see us moving up maybe 2-3 spots for a player if possible. Flyers of course have states they do like Nurse and everybody love Jones. If we finish 7-9th overall, I wouldn't be upset for them to move up 2-3 spots using a 3rd rounder from this year and a second rounder from next year. If that doesn't do it, I stay where we are then.

Moving up to grab the top pick would require a massive over payment also. We aren't just talking about picks anymore, we are talking about high end players and picks. Couturier would have to be included for it+our first rounder. Probably a little more.

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Old
04-23-2013, 09:33 AM
  #982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
A modest proposal for future drafts: Two lotteries, one for the 1st pick, the other for the 2nd.

For the first overall, retain the existing formula--worst team has a 25 percent chance, etc. For the 2nd overall, list the 14 non-playoff teams by their records over the last 10 games (NHL.com keeps this stat anyway), and use the same formula for a lottery (in other words, the team that misses the playoffs but has the best late-season record has a 25 percent chance to jump to 2nd overall--it would have to be tweaked a bit, since there would only be 13 teams eligible after the 1st overall draw (the team that wins that, obviously can't win 2nd as well).

After the 1st and 2nd slots are determined, the rest of the draft order follows the inverted regular season standings. So no team could drop more than two lines, instead of the existing 1.

Thoughts? I came up with this over two pieces of raisin bread and a glass of orange juice. It probably needs work.
If the NHL is going to do that, why not just have a lottery for all the non-playoff teams picks then? I say to get rid of the lottery all together. Then, we run into the problem of team purposefully tanking to get the 1st overall like some teams in sports have done. However, to stop that put in a rule that punishes teams who do this. Also, have a rule that states a team cannot have the #1 overall more than 2 times in a row or 3 times in the last 5 years.

Those are my thoughts. Probably not the best way, but I am too lazy to detail it out.

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Old
04-23-2013, 09:33 AM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Hall, RNH, Yakupov.....
They changed it in this CBA now so teams can not manage that anymore is what I meant.

EDIT: trying to find it but can't. Not sure if I remember correctly or not but thought they were putting that in there.

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Old
04-23-2013, 09:59 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
They changed it in this CBA now so teams can not manage that anymore is what I meant.

EDIT: trying to find it but can't. Not sure if I remember correctly or not but thought they were putting that in there.
I don't remember hearing or reading anything about that in the CBA discussions.

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Old
04-23-2013, 10:02 AM
  #985
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I don't remember hearing or reading anything about that in the CBA discussions.
I might be getting confused a little. All this knowledge I have retained, I tend to hit a stumbling block down a few roads

I think someone might have wrote about it, but it's not a provision in the new CBA.

The lottery still should go, I am not a fan of it. Don't get me wrong though, if we win it, I become it's biggest fan for a year.

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04-23-2013, 10:18 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I might be getting confused a little. All this knowledge I have retained, I tend to hit a stumbling block down a few roads

I think someone might have wrote about it, but it's not a provision in the new CBA.

The lottery still should go, I am not a fan of it. Don't get me wrong though, if we win it, I become it's biggest fan for a year.
I would be there right with you. I am not a fan of the lottery either.

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Old
04-23-2013, 10:46 AM
  #987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingPhilly View Post
I would be there right with you. I am not a fan of the lottery either.
Throw me in that category as well. Kind of like a reverse NIMBY. If it doesn't happen to us I hate it. If it does I love it.

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Old
04-23-2013, 11:44 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Not trying to be rude, but how does it seem like it could happen? There hasn't been any indication or such regarding the first overall because nobody even knows who holds it?

I could see us moving up maybe 2-3 spots for a player if possible. Flyers of course have states they do like Nurse and everybody love Jones. If we finish 7-9th overall, I wouldn't be upset for them to move up 2-3 spots using a 3rd rounder from this year and a second rounder from next year. If that doesn't do it, I stay where we are then.

Moving up to grab the top pick would require a massive over payment also. We aren't just talking about picks anymore, we are talking about high end players and picks. Couturier would have to be included for it+our first rounder. Probably a little more.
I'm not saying I have any reason to believe that we would, simply stating that this team obviously needs a franchise building block on the back end, and jones seems to be that. I think couturier is completely expendable if it means getting Seth Jones. I think he's going to be an elite defenseman. I would have absolutely no reservations about doing couturier, our 1st + for jones.

The reason I said it seems like it 'could' happen is because the flyers are in the business of making bold moves when things aren't going right. They assess the teams biggest needs and usually, at least attempt, to resolve the issue. We saw it with the pronger trade, we saw it with bryzgalov and we saw it when they signed weber to an offer sheet. There has been speculation that couturier could possibly be sacrificed to bring in a #1 defenseman, especially with Laughton waiting in the wings, and couturier isn't going to get you Shea weber or Drew doughty or Alex Pietrangelo or Oliver Ekman-Larsson. I think it's entirely plausible that they make a push for the #1 pick. Not saying its probable, or even that the team holding the pick would be interested, just that its a plausible scenario.


Last edited by orange is better: 04-23-2013 at 11:49 AM.
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Old
04-23-2013, 11:49 AM
  #989
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I would agree that it would not surprise me at all if the Flyers did trade for the #1 overall if they don't win the lottery. If we had to give up Couts I would most likely do it but it would hurt. But that is what you have to do to get a player of that caliber. With that said if there was any way to get Jones and keep Giroux, B. Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds, L. Schenn, Timonen, Grossmann and one of read and Laughton I would definitely do it.

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Old
04-23-2013, 11:54 AM
  #990
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It all depends who wins the lottery I'd say.

If a team like Colorado wins, there's no chance in hell they will trade that pick.

If a team like Nashville wins the lottery, maybe. Honestly, in any scenario I can't think of a definite team that would trade the #1 pick, considering the elite talent in the top 3-4 picks.

Edit: Pretty sure Nashville hates us, so nevermind about them, hahaha.

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04-23-2013, 12:02 PM
  #991
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I would agree that it would not surprise me at all if the Flyers did trade for the #1 overall if they don't win the lottery. If we had to give up Couts I would most likely do it but it would hurt. But that is what you have to do to get a player of that caliber. With that said if there was any way to get Jones and keep Giroux, B. Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds, L. Schenn, Timonen, Grossmann and one of read and Laughton I would definitely do it.
I don't see anyone trading the #1 pick. I mean, historically it doesn't really happen. The only time I remember is the draft when Rick Nash went #1 overall, but I honestly don't remember if that was a draft day trade or if that happened during the season or previous seasons. I think the more likely scenario (still unlikely) would be if a team took MacKinnon or Drouin first then a team trading up to #2 (or #3 if the forwards went 1-2). I think it would cost too much to move up. If the cost was our first plus Couturier, I'd do it. But I think the price would be steeper.

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04-23-2013, 12:04 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Sniped View Post
It all depends who wins the lottery I'd say.

If a team like Colorado wins, there's no chance in hell they will trade that pick.

If a team like Nashville wins the lottery, maybe. Honestly, in any scenario I can't think of a definite team that would trade the #1 pick, considering the elite talent in the top 3-4 picks.

Edit: Pretty sure Nashville hates us, so nevermind about them, hahaha.
I think the only team that might consider trading it would be Florida. If they got a top 10 this year plus a top six forward or top 4 dman, plus a first next year they might consider it. But im not getting my hopes up

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04-23-2013, 12:05 PM
  #993
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It all depends who wins the lottery I'd say.

If a team like Colorado wins, there's no chance in hell they will trade that pick.

If a team like Nashville wins the lottery, maybe. Honestly, in any scenario I can't think of a definite team that would trade the #1 pick, considering the elite talent in the top 3-4 picks.

Edit: Pretty sure Nashville hates us, so nevermind about them, hahaha.
What about a team like Flordia perhaps? Lets, for example, say that the price is Couturier, 1st and Gustafsson.

That gives Florida a young C with high upside to play with Huberdeau, a still high first to select what is likely to be an impact player for them, be it someone like Nurse, Lindholm, Nichushkin, Zadorov etc. and a decent young puck mover who's an RFA.

It gives us the young corner stone defenseman this team desperately needs that can grow with our young core and be a building block for years.

It's alot to give up, but I think it would make this team better in the long run, and jones will be an NHL player next season.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Gagne-Schenn-Simmonds
McGinn-Laughton-Read
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot
Rosehill

Timonen-Schenn
Jones-Coburn
Meszaros/Manning-Grossmann

Ducks
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04-23-2013, 12:06 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I think the only team that might consider trading it would be Florida. If they got a top 10 this year plus a top six forward or top 4 dman, plus a first next year they might consider it. But im not getting my hopes up
Tallon (Florida's GM) has been with his scouts at the Halifax games, pretty sure they are set on drafting MacK or Drouin (I think MacK) to play with Huberdeau and build their franchise around those 2 players.

So, I highly doubt they will trade their first or second pick (if they don't win the lottery).

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04-23-2013, 12:09 PM
  #995
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Who does Snider have to pay and how much to win the lottery?

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04-23-2013, 12:11 PM
  #996
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Who does Snider have to pay and how much to win the lottery?
If only it could work that way.

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04-23-2013, 12:11 PM
  #997
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I would agree that it would not surprise me at all if the Flyers did trade for the #1 overall if they don't win the lottery. If we had to give up Couts I would most likely do it but it would hurt. But that is what you have to do to get a player of that caliber. With that said if there was any way to get Jones and keep Giroux, B. Schenn, Couturier, Voracek, Simmonds, L. Schenn, Timonen, Grossmann and one of read and Laughton I would definitely do it.
While I agree that trading up for #1 is the kind of deal Homer might make, you have to wonder if there will be a deal there to be made. If say, Florida is willing to pass on Jones because they want a forward, will they pass up the chance to draft MacKinnon or Druin in return for Couturier, the Flyers #1, and something? If the Flyers end up with around the eighth pick, is it worthwhile for Florida to give up say, MacKinnon for Couturier and maybe Lindholm? I think it would probably take more than just Couturier plus the Flyers' first. Maybe more than Homer is willing to give.

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04-23-2013, 12:12 PM
  #998
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What about a team like Flordia perhaps? Lets, for example, say that the price is Couturier, 1st and Gustafsson.

That gives Florida a young C with high upside to play with Huberdeau, a still high first to select what is likely to be an impact player for them, be it someone like Nurse, Lindholm, Nichushkin, Zadorov etc. and a decent young puck mover who's an RFA.

It gives us the young corner stone defenseman this team desperately needs that can grow with our young core and be a building block for years.

It's alot to give up, but I think it would make this team better in the long run, and jones will be an NHL player next season.

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Gagne-Schenn-Simmonds
McGinn-Laughton-Read
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot
Rosehill

Timonen-Schenn
Jones-Coburn
Meszaros/Manning-Grossmann

Ducks
Mason
I'm pretty sure Florida is looking to get a #1 center to compliment Huberdeau, they are in the perfect position to draft MacK, an elite #1 center the franchise has never really had.

Couts isn't gonna be a #1 center in this league, and that's what Florida wants I firmly believe.

What we are giving up is pretty fair I'd say, but I just think Florida thinks they are in too good of a spot to trade it. Considering Tallon scouting Halifax for sometime now.

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04-23-2013, 12:16 PM
  #999
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While I think that the 1st overall is out of the question, both from the Flyers ending up with it and spending the resources needed to land it, I'm of the mind that Holmgren would be spending his time well talking over what it would cost to move up 2-3 spots depending on final standings, of course to be in the Nurse area.

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Old
04-23-2013, 12:29 PM
  #1000
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Beef or MSE or any mod, we are missing a lock here.

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