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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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Old
04-12-2013, 05:45 PM
  #376
MoneyGuy
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
Nonsense. The neighbourhood I live in is not urban sprawl, neither are the ones closer to downtown from me, neither are the ones immediately south. These are long time, well established older neighbourhoods in which the lifecycle of the roads and sidewalks are well well past due date. You also have to take a close look at the type of people you are trying to get to live downtown. Condos are not for everyone, the neighbourhoods surrounding that core are not for everyone. Try and encourage down town development? Sure go for it. Use infra money on new capital projects rather than what it is mostly meant for? No, bad idea.
Big Unit is correct. As you build a city out with low densities, it does cost more for all of those services and infrastructure. You reduce these costs by building up instead of out. He didn't say you can't build out, but you achieve economies by increasing densities. Condos are not for everyone, agreed, but how can you argue that building higher densities doesn't reduce these costs? You can also increase densities in established neighbourhoods with higher-density buildings. One I see is on the NE corner of...what is it, Stony Plain Road and 142 St. (if that's the street). A tower is going there, on the edge of Glenora. That's how you build sustainable cities.

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04-12-2013, 06:04 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by MoneyGuy View Post
Big Unit is correct. As you build a city out with low densities, it does cost more for all of those services and infrastructure. You reduce these costs by building up instead of out. He didn't say you can't build out, but you achieve economies by increasing densities. Condos are not for everyone, agreed, but how can you argue that building higher densities doesn't reduce these costs? You can also increase densities in established neighbourhoods with higher-density buildings. One I see is on the NE corner of...what is it, Stony Plain Road and 142 St. (if that's the street). A tower is going there, on the edge of Glenora. That's how you build sustainable cities.
One of the biggest problems with Edmonton, just want to keep sprawling. They want to annex part of the County of Leduc. I recall a while back someone wanted to build a couple of high towers, 20 storeys+, at the old Heritage mall site. But there was so much push back from the locals, mainly because they didn't want building that high net door to them. They ended up with buildings about half the size they originally wanted. A condo complex in Edmonton is lucky to be 4 storeys high. Edmonton is the worse city in Canada for sprawling as the attitude is that there is nothing but land, might as well use it.

I am guilty as I want to live in a big house with a double or triple garage and large yard.

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04-12-2013, 06:14 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
One of the biggest problems with Edmonton, just want to keep sprawling. They want to annex part of the County of Leduc. I recall a while back someone wanted to build a couple of high towers, 20 storeys+, at the old Heritage mall site. But there was so much push back from the locals, mainly because they didn't want building that high net door to them. They ended up with buildings about half the size they originally wanted. A condo complex in Edmonton is lucky to be 4 storeys high. Edmonton is the worse city in Canada for sprawling as the attitude is that there is nothing but land, might as well use it.

I am guilty as I want to live in a big house with a double or triple garage and large yard.


Councillors need to have the balls to do what's right, instead of what's popular. You have to put up with the petitions and the angry NIMBY'rs to do your job properly. At this level of politics, you know you'll take a lot of heat and you need to have your asbestos suit on. Higher densities is right, even when it's unpopular.

That's how to build sustainable cities. It costs roughly $1.30 for every dollar of tax revenue for each new house. They don't pay their way so cities have to find ways to reduce the costs of development, and this is one way.

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Old
04-12-2013, 06:33 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by The Big Unit View Post
The city of Edmonton (not metro just the city) has just over 810 000 people as of 2011 estimates and is 684 km2. Our population density is 1186 people/km2.

By contrast, the city of Toronto (not metro just the city) has over 2.7M people as of last month and is just 641 km2. Toronto's population density is 4149 people/km2.

But yeah, it's sheer nonsense that we have a sprawl problem in Edmonton.

http://www.toronto.ca/toronto_facts/geography.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton
Oklahoma City has an area of of 1,608 km2 and population of 596,742. 369 people per km2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City

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Old
04-12-2013, 06:36 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751 View Post
Oklahoma City has an area of of 1,608 km2 and population of 596,742. 369 people per km2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City


If I skip the post game shower, I should be able to make it home by 1 AM.

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04-12-2013, 06:37 PM
  #381
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The urban sprawl in this city is appalling. Size wise it's larger than a lot of major American cities and that's inexcusable.

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04-12-2013, 06:46 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The urban sprawl in this city is appalling. Size wise it's larger than a lot of major American cities and that's inexcusable.
Don't expect it to get better

They just annexed everything down to the international airport with intent of expanding all the silly subdivisions.

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04-12-2013, 08:47 PM
  #383
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Don't expect it to get better

They just annexed everything down to the international airport with intent of expanding all the silly subdivisions.
Nothing wrong with the city growing but it would be nice to see the downtown core get its due. The mayor is obviously pushing for it, it's a shame the province is not on board with the city's plan. As far as annexing goes, I believe the problem is that surrounding communities use lower taxes to lure business away from Edmonton while using it's services. Time to build a moat and toll bridge I guess.

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Old
04-12-2013, 08:51 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
Nothing wrong with the city growing but it would be nice to see the downtown core get its due. The mayor is obviously pushing for it, it's a shame the province is not on board with the city's plan. As far as annexing goes, I believe the problem is that surrounding communities use lower taxes to lure business away from Edmonton while using it's services. Time to build a moat and toll bridge I guess.
They need to promote density, not create a ton more low density suburbs in outlying areas that require tons more roads/services/transportation built up to support them.

The communities around Edmonton are a problem, but Edmonton is it's own worst enemy when it comes to the urban sprawl.

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Old
04-12-2013, 08:54 PM
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The urban sprawl in this city is appalling. Size wise it's larger than a lot of major American cities and that's inexcusable.
That's also because Edmonton is a unique situation of not having any natural barriers (no mountains, no oceaN) and sparse settlements (size wise) around it. A lot of the big metro areas either have a collection of smaller established cities hemming them in, or bodies of nature pushing them. Some other big cities HAVE to build up, instead of out.

That's not defending the city planning of Edmonton though. Just a thought.

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Old
04-13-2013, 08:32 AM
  #386
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So Edmonton will just keep on drifting outwards in every direction... bounded by NWT to the north, Rockies to the west, Sask to the east and Montana to the south (although might have to stop at Calgary as the big hats and piles of ******* will slow things down).

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Old
04-23-2013, 12:49 AM
  #387
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Diotte tweeted this tonight.

Quote:
KerryDiotte ‏@KerryDiotte 5h
Northlands will extend #Oilers lease for 2 years for $1 a yr while team waits for new DT arena Northlands 133rd AGM told tonite. #yeg

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Old
04-23-2013, 02:09 AM
  #388
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Interesting. I figured that this debate would pop up sooner or later.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/gretz...e-in-edmonton/

It is an interesting discussion. I mean, "Wayne Gretzky Drive" is right there and Northlands is where Gretzky set all of those records and won all of those championships.

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Old
04-23-2013, 03:00 AM
  #389
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Mark Messier trail or drive or whatever is pretty much in the middle of nowhere despite the St Albert ties. I don't see a problem with Wayne Gretzky drive not being near the statue or new arena. Seems stupid to leave it at a busted ass rink that will be eventually torn down.

They could build a new statue outside of the downtown arena depicting Caterina, Diotte, and Iveson throwing their own feces at the rink

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Old
04-23-2013, 11:39 AM
  #390
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so what does urban sprawl have to do with the arena agreement? I came for an update and thought I went to an OT thread.

at least the gretzky statue is on topic. I think the statue should stay where it is until the coliseum is town down. let the new rexall rink have a statue of Katz with a money bag in each hand.

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Old
04-23-2013, 11:42 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
so what does urban sprawl have to do with the arena agreement? I came for an update and thought I went to an OT thread.
I was thinking the same thing, but people like to crap on politicians.

I agree on the statue. Keep it where it is as long as Rexall remains standing. That's the arena where he wove his magic.

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04-23-2013, 11:52 AM
  #392
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Gotta agree, let's keep this on topic please folks.

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Old
04-23-2013, 12:07 PM
  #393
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Gotta agree, let's keep this on topic please folks.
The entire subject of annexation came up with the mayor's update about the arena and province's lack of support...hence the discussion.

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Old
04-23-2013, 12:12 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
The entire subject of annexation came up with the mayor's update about the arena and province's lack of support...hence the discussion.
The mayor is allowed to talk about whatever he wants, that doesn't mean it's fair game in this thread. This thread is about the arena and not Edmonton and all of the civic moves it makes. Otherwise it's a political thread and it gets shut down.

If it isn't about the arena, it will be removed from here.

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04-23-2013, 12:32 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
The mayor is allowed to talk about whatever he wants, that doesn't mean it's fair game in this thread. This thread is about the arena and not Edmonton and all of the civic moves it makes. Otherwise it's a political thread and it gets shut down.

If it isn't about the arena, it will be removed from here.
It is related when people use the make up of our city to be an excuse to fund an arena and everything else that is supposed to go along with it.

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Old
04-23-2013, 12:41 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
It is related when people use the make up of our city to be an excuse to fund an arena and everything else that is supposed to go along with it.
That is vague enough to allow anything city of Edmonton related into this thread.

This isn't up for debate. We can either have an open arena discussion thread, or a closed Edmonton politics thread. I want there to be a place to discuss the arena. So, posters that continue to try to make this a politics thread will be removed from the discussion.

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Old
04-23-2013, 12:47 PM
  #397
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David Staples is talking negatively today.

Quote:
David Staples ‏@dstaples 58m
Thanks to PC government dragging its heels on funding cities, downtown arena deal on deathbed. Arena haters can thank Redford #Oilers #ableg

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Old
04-23-2013, 12:59 PM
  #398
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I think if the government didn't drag its feet during all those surplus years to secure revenue in other areas/industries, there wouldn't even have been a problem in funding the arena as there would be even more surplus.

As for arena, is it still conditional on missing monies before shovels go into the ground, or is it still going ahead without the monies.

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Old
04-23-2013, 01:07 PM
  #399
Moonlapse Vertigo
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It's pathetic that this has the potential to fall apart now over 55 million dollars. All parties are to blame.

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Old
04-23-2013, 01:15 PM
  #400
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I wonder if this would have worked better on a federal P3 plan. Then federal government can chip in without controversy.

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