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2013 NHL Entry Draft Thread | "Don't Be A Moran, Draft Monahan"

View Poll Results: Who Would You Draft Of These Options?
Sean Monahan 141 52.61%
Elias Lindholm 26 9.70%
Valeri Nischushkin 34 12.69%
Darnell Nurse 45 16.79%
Rasmus Ristolainen 8 2.99%
Curtis Lazar 14 5.22%
Voters: 268. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-23-2013, 12:29 PM
  #651
Toydarian
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Originally Posted by Nugie Boy View Post
I think the size factor is getting blown out of proportion just a little bit. Just because a guy is 6'4" doesn't mean he will be more physical or harder to play against than a guy who is 6'0"... Just look at Dustin Brown versus Dustin Penner as an example
I agree with this.

However, a bigger player (height and weight) is harder to knock over or push around than a smaller player, regardless of skill. Penner is harder to knock off the puck than Dustin Brown. What I find most frustrating about the Oilers is the number of players who are easy to knock off the puck. Sam Gagner is a perfect example of this. The Oilers don't just need grit and physical play, they also need guys that don't fall over at the slightest amount of physicality.

A player like Monahan or Barkov probably isn't going to skate around wrecking guys with big hits, but I bet they will both be very good at protecting the puck and maintaining possession when games getting physical.

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04-23-2013, 12:34 PM
  #652
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this team need a center badly...Barkov or Monahan would preferable due to their size but Lindholm would be great too

our forward prospects are brutal

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04-23-2013, 12:49 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
He played the point man on the powerplay with Sproul carrying the puck up and bombing it from the top of the left circle from what I saw. I think he had 10 powerplay assists and 1 or 2 goals there. Nurse is actually a decent distributor but he's definitely not a puck rusher or anything, he makes smart plays with solid passes, shots that get through and crisp outlets while playing with a nasty edge. Bogosian got 61 pts in 60 games at the same age in the same league and I'd say you're looking at a pretty good comparable right there in terms of overall skillset and what they will bring to the table at the NHL level.
I like Nurse but he's not even close to Bogosian at the same age.

Bogosian put up 61 points in 60 games, leading his team in points as a d-men, AND played on the Petes who had a record of 28-36-4 AND were among the leagues worst in goals scored. Not to mention Bogosian was just an absolute monster at the combine.

Compare that to Nurse, who put up who scored 41 points in 68 games (3rd in D-scoring, and 10th overall on his team) playing on a stacked team including Sproul and Cousins that had one of the highest goals per game ratio in the OHL...

I don't mean to put down Nurse as I like him quite a bit but he's a huge step back from Bogosian at the same age.

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04-23-2013, 12:59 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
I like Nurse but he's not even close to Bogosian at the same age.

Bogosian put up 61 points in 60 games, leading his team in points as a d-men, AND played on the Petes who had a record of 28-36-4 AND were among the leagues worst in goals scored. Not to mention Bogosian was just an absolute monster at the combine.

Compare that to Nurse, who put up who scored 41 points in 68 games (3rd in D-scoring, and 10th overall on his team) playing on a stacked team including Sproul and Cousins that had one of the highest goals per game ratio in the OHL...

I don't mean to put down Nurse as I like him quite a bit but he's a huge step back from Bogosian at the same age.
My only counter to that would be Pietrangelo. He recorded 53 points in 60 games the same season on a team that scored 272 goals (73 more than the Petes and 10 more than the 2012/13 Greyhounds). Pietrangelo, has proven to be the superior defenseman in the NHL.

Not that I am disagreeing with you about Bogosian being much better developed than Nurse at the same age.

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04-23-2013, 01:17 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Toydarian View Post
My only counter to that would be Pietrangelo. He recorded 53 points in 60 games the same season on a team that scored 272 goals (73 more than the Petes and 10 more than the 2012/13 Greyhounds). Pietrangelo, has proven to be the superior defenseman in the NHL.

Not that I am disagreeing with you about Bogosian being much better developed than Nurse at the same age.
Completely different styles and Pietrangelo still led his team in D-scoring. I get where you're trying to go though.

I'd say a better comparable though would be Eric Gudbranson-lite, to look at a recent early pick.

Nurse has 41 points in 68 games (0.62 per game), was 3rd in D-scoring on his team, and his team scored 262 goals.

Gudbranson had 34 points in 44 games (0.77 per game), was 2nd in D-scoring on his team, and his team scored 245 goals.

However, Gudbranson displayed better offensive skills in both his pre-draft and draft year and was a known leader. Nurse has neither of those and I would argue Gudbranson was meaner at the same age.

Stats aren't everything but what Nurse did points-wise considering the team he played on really isn't that impressive. He's had a pretty similiar draft year, stats-wise, as Griffin Reinhart - both played on great teams that inflated their numbers but really didn't put up amazing numbers. I don't think his play style is similiar to Reinhart's though, just statistical.

I'd say an "ideal upside" comparable would be something like Brent Seabrook who has averaged about 33 points per season in the NHL while playing on the top pairing.

EDIT: Main point I'm trying to make - I like Nurse, and young d-men are completely unpredictable, but based on what he has done so far, I would not expect him to be a major offensive contributor in the NHL. Guys like Gudbranson, Hickey, Alzner all posted better numbers than Nurse in junior and have slotted in primarily as shutdown d-men. Guys like Seabrook have posted similiar numbers as well and outside of one season he has averaged just over 30 points per season.


Last edited by dyzfunctioned: 04-23-2013 at 03:13 PM.
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Old
04-23-2013, 02:02 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
I'm wondering about this Nurse kid.
What interests me is the fact that he's basically tripled his output from this year to last. There must be a reason - playing with Sproul?

What I would be doing as an amateur scout is finding all of the data/stats people in hockey at my disposal and I would tell them to go out and find examples of all the players who took massive leaps in their second year of college play and see how that projects to NHL success.

Is his improvement a fluke or a sign of a future stud. Would suck to pass on this kid and look back in 5-8 years and think we passed on him.

Thoughts/input?
Its a crap shoot. But a lot of guys have a big leap forward in production in their second year in a junior league. They grow physically, and develop their games, the coaches trust them more, they get better ice time due to older players moving on... Any number of reasons.

But generally scouts seem to like to see that improvement in their draft year. It projects well. If he had the same number of points last year as this, they would say that he's plateaued.

It's one of the reasons that MacKinnon was supposed to be a sure fire #1. But he hasn't dramatically improved in his draft year, so he's dropped. Drouin on the other hand has improved so much that he went from a probable 1st rounder to top 3.

That massive leap in production in the draft year seems to be the better omen. Better than busting the door down in your first year and then plateauing, and definitely not as bad as being draft +1 or +2 before putting up serious numbers.

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04-23-2013, 02:10 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
EDIT: Main point I'm trying to make - I like Nurse, and young d-men are completely unpredictable, but based on what he has done so far, I would not expect him to be a major offensive contributor in the NHL. Guys like Gudbranson, Hickey, Alzner all posted better numbers than Nurse in junior and have slotted in primarily as shutdown d-men. Guys like Seabrook have posted similiar numbers as well and outside of one season he has averaged just over 30 points per season.
I don't think many are expecting him to be a major offensive contributor.

I would easily use a 3rd-8th overall pick on a Seabrook with Nurse's skating.

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04-23-2013, 02:26 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
Completely different styles and Pietrangelo still led his team in D-scoring. I get where you're trying to go though.

I'd say a better comparable though would be Alex Gudbranson-lite, to look at a recent early pick.

Nurse has 41 points in 68 games (0.62 per game), was 3rd in D-scoring on his team, and his team scored 262 goals.

Gudbranson had 34 points in 44 games (0.77 per game), was 2nd in D-scoring on his team, and his team scored 245 goals.

However, Gudbranson displayed better offensive skills in both his pre-draft and draft year and was a known leader. Nurse has neither of those and I would argue Gudbranson was meaner at the same age.

Stats aren't everything but what Nurse did points-wise considering the team he played on really isn't that impressive. He's had a pretty similiar draft year, stats-wise, as Griffin Reinhart - both played on great teams that inflated their numbers but really didn't put up amazing numbers. I don't think his play style is similiar to Reinhart's though, just statistical.

I'd say an "ideal upside" comparable would be something like Brent Seabrook who has averaged about 33 points per season in the NHL while playing on the top pairing.

EDIT: Main point I'm trying to make - I like Nurse, and young d-men are completely unpredictable, but based on what he has done so far, I would not expect him to be a major offensive contributor in the NHL. Guys like Gudbranson, Hickey, Alzner all posted better numbers than Nurse in junior and have slotted in primarily as shutdown d-men. Guys like Seabrook have posted similiar numbers as well and outside of one season he has averaged just over 30 points per season.
I'm guessing you meant Eric, not Alex...? Alex is not the player you are describing in your post based on what I've seen.

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04-23-2013, 03:13 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by 17Kurri View Post
I'm guessing you meant Eric, not Alex...? Alex is not the player you are describing in your post based on what I've seen.
Typo - thanks

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04-23-2013, 03:21 PM
  #660
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Drouin, why is this even a question? If Jones and Mac are off the board, you take Drouin.
This. Drouin was a far more dominant player at the WJC playing against the world's best. If the Oilers weren't in need of a C, I could see myself taking him over MacKinnon.

Oddly, I am hoping right now for 5th overall, meaning one of Barkov/Monahan will be the pick. The thought of being 6th overall with the board going...

Jones
MacKinnon
Drouin
Barkov
Monahan

would be my least favourite scenerio. Another consolation is if teh Oilers were to pick around 10 or so would mean reaching for Lazar. Not fond of that either. They wouldn't take him with 5 or 6....or then again...would they?

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04-23-2013, 03:27 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Slats432 View Post
This. Drouin was a far more dominant player at the WJC playing against the world's best. If the Oilers weren't in need of a C, I could see myself taking him over MacKinnon.

Oddly, I am hoping right now for 5th overall, meaning one of Barkov/Monahan will be the pick. The thought of being 6th overall with the board going...

Jones
MacKinnon
Drouin
Barkov
Monahan

would be my least favourite scenerio. Another consolation is if teh Oilers were to pick around 10 or so would mean reaching for Lazar. Not fond of that either. They wouldn't take him with 5 or 6....or then again...would they?
With Lindholm (and Nichuskin) around we'll end up with a quality player anywhere in the top 6. I'd love to get into the top 4 though... but only team I can really see surpassing us is Carolina.

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04-23-2013, 04:20 PM
  #662
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It's all gravy if the Oilers draft 5th/6th or even 7th. They get a potential stud no matter what. 8th is not quite as good because then they get the "leftover" from the big 8... still a pretty nice leftover.

It's possible the Oilers scouts might also see more value in a guy like Ristolainen/Pulock/Zadorov as well. I know everyone is saying Nurse is the best dman outside of Jones... but I don't think those other 3 are very far behind.

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04-23-2013, 04:23 PM
  #663
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It's all gravy if the Oilers draft 5th/6th or even 7th. They get a potential stud no matter what. 8th is not quite as good because then they get the "leftover" from the big 8... still a pretty nice leftover.

It's possible the Oilers scouts might also see more value in a guy like Ristolainen/Pulock/Zadorov as well. I know everyone is saying Nurse is the best dman outside of Jones... but I don't think those other 3 are very far behind.
In 2011 Boston was pretty happy getting the 'leftover' of the big 8, with the 9th pick. lol

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04-23-2013, 05:06 PM
  #664
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Huge implications tonight.

Go Buffalo, Philly, Calgary or Nashville (great matchup for us), Carolina, and Colorado.

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04-23-2013, 05:40 PM
  #665
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Huge implications tonight.

Go Buffalo, Philly, Calgary or Nashville (great matchup for us), Carolina, and Colorado.
The Nashville/Calgary game will be interesting. Even if Nashville wins we will still be behind them. They win the tie breaker with less wins.

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04-23-2013, 05:56 PM
  #666
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For one of our later picks I want Juuse Saros.
Elite Prospects Page
He's small but I hear he is good and he put up 49 saves at the WJC-U18 against USA in a 2-1 win.
Most of our goalies either aren't highly projected (Bunz, Roy) or might not get signed (Perhonen, Tuohimaa) and I don't know much about Niko Hovinen.
Last year I wanted Korpisalo or Dansk but CBJ picked them both.

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04-23-2013, 05:56 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
The Nashville/Calgary game will be interesting. Even if Nashville wins we will still be behind them. They win the tie breaker with less wins.
Yeah it's tricky, our best hope is an OT Calgary win in my opinion. That way we have a cushion at 6th overall in the event we win 1 or 2 of our last 3.

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04-23-2013, 06:03 PM
  #668
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The Nashville/Calgary game will be interesting. Even if Nashville wins we will still be behind them. They win the tie breaker with less wins.
I'm hoping the Preds can win tonight and then they get up for playing the Red Wings and knock them out of contention. They hate the Wings so that could be like their Stanley Cup this year.

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04-23-2013, 06:06 PM
  #669
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I like Nurse but he's not even close to Bogosian at the same age.

Bogosian put up 61 points in 60 games, leading his team in points as a d-men, AND played on the Petes who had a record of 28-36-4 AND were among the leagues worst in goals scored. Not to mention Bogosian was just an absolute monster at the combine.

Compare that to Nurse, who put up who scored 41 points in 68 games (3rd in D-scoring, and 10th overall on his team) playing on a stacked team including Sproul and Cousins that had one of the highest goals per game ratio in the OHL...

I don't mean to put down Nurse as I like him quite a bit but he's a huge step back from Bogosian at the same age.
No sorry, I worded this wrong. I meant to say that Nurse's offensive potential isn't amazing or anything, I was trying to use Bogosian as a point of comparison as a guy that was more offensively gifted at the OHL level but has settled into a more shutdown role not as focused on offense at the NHL level - which I think Nurse would project to at the NHL level as well. Had an exam this afternoon didn't word it as well as I could have.

I thought I'd seen Nurse wearing an A in some games this year so don't know about the leader thing.

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04-23-2013, 06:12 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
No sorry, I worded this wrong. I meant to say that Nurse's offensive potential isn't amazing or anything, I was trying to use Bogosian as a point of comparison as a guy that was more offensively gifted at the OHL level but has settled into a more shutdown role not as focused on offense at the NHL level - which I think Nurse would project to at the NHL level as well. Had an exam this afternoon didn't word it as well as I could have.

I thought I'd seen Nurse wearing an A in some games this year so don't know about the leader thing.
This is fair - Nurse's offensive potential is really up in the air at this point - but the defensive "shutdown" ability can't be debated.

He's one of those "top 8" blue-chip prospects in this draft that people are getting excited about, so there's definitely something there.

He's trending a bit behind Pietrangelo/Hamilton did in their pre-draft OHL years, and he's had the luxury of playing with a sublime partner in Ryan Sproul.

Although I made the reference earlier to him being similar to guys like Pietrangelo/Hamilton/OEL in pre-draft immaturity, he's definitely not at the same level as these players offensively.

I retract my earlier statement about his "big-time" potential - I don't think he possesses the hockey sense or offensive skills to be that kind of player. But his gritty style and big-body presence could still be a difference-making asset - anyone have an NHL comp for him? I'm having a hard time coming up with one.

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04-23-2013, 06:13 PM
  #671
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I'm hoping the Preds can win tonight and then they get up for playing the Red Wings and knock them out of contention. They hate the Wings so that could be like their Stanley Cup this year.
Asking the preds to win 2 out of their last 3 while we loss all 3 of ours seems very improbable.

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04-23-2013, 06:26 PM
  #672
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Asking the preds to win 2 out of their last 3 while we loss all 3 of ours seems very improbable.
Nashville plays Detroit and Columbus to close out the sked. Talk about an opportunity to play spoiler.

Same goes for Edmonton playing in Minnesota. The one game the Oilers will probably get up for the rest of the way. Minny has L.A., Edm and Colorado left.

West playoff scenarios are actually really uncertain. Dallas could still make it in multiple ways.

I would not be shocked to see Dallas make it in. They have SJ tonight. If they can pull that one out, they have Columbus and Detroit at home...crazy. They control their fate. Would be poetic justice after they got bounced by Minny a few years ago in the final game of the season.

Detroit ends with L.A., Nashville and Dallas...

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04-23-2013, 06:27 PM
  #673
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Asking the preds to win 2 out of their last 3 while we loss all 3 of ours seems very improbable.
Asking us to lose all 3 is very reasonable. MIN-VAN-CHI aren't slouch teams.

Asking the Preds to go 1-1-1 vs CGY-DET-CBJ isn't unreasonable.

Asking CAR to go 1-2 or 0-1-2 vs NYI-NYR-PIT will be tough.

Having TBL go 1-1-1 vs TOR-BOS-FLA seems doable as well.

It would take a miracle from god for COL to go 2-1-0 vs STL-PHX-MIN though, haha.

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04-23-2013, 06:37 PM
  #674
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As long as the Oilers don't "slip" to 8th... then they'll be in danger of a team from 9-14th winning the lottery and knocking them down a spot to 9th (although it's a slim chance that a really long shot team wins it... still possible).

At 9th they'd be looking at Pulock/Ristolainen/Zadorov/Lazar. Still good but a little deflating from being in the running for Barkov/Monahan/Lindholm.

Even if they end up trading the pick... a top 6/7 pick is obviously better trade bait than a #9 pick.

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04-23-2013, 06:53 PM
  #675
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What about a dman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
this team need a center badly...Barkov or Monahan would preferable due to their size but Lindholm would be great too

our forward prospects are brutal
I thought that Edmonton was in solid shape in the centre position (tentative of course Ganger comes back). The Oilers need defense more than anything. I recommend all you Oilers fans learn about darnell nurse and ryan pulock. These would be excellent picks for the oilers and would address defense which everybody complains about.

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