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Old
04-23-2013, 01:33 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
What about 1/2 dimensional players like Boyle?
The 4th lines of NHL teams are littered with them. I dont think youll find a soul that doesnt agree Boyle should be a permanent 4th liner.

The problem is, the roster still isnt deep enough and theres still a spot at the #9 forward needing to be claimed by Boyle, Pyatt, or Kreider. I begrudgingly choose Boyle at this time, even though I dont think any of them should be a top 9 forward right now.

But guess what, this is the reality of the situation and that choice needs to be made. You complaining about Boyle doesnt make that issue any less real.

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04-23-2013, 02:15 PM
  #352
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The best thing to happen to this team is Brian Boyle being separated from Torts. I'd like to think that once he gets back Torts will put him where he belongs and not overuse him since it's now obvious we don't need him in the top 9 but... I'm not optimistic about that.

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04-23-2013, 02:16 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Affinity View Post
The best thing to happen to this team is Brian Boyle being separated from Torts. I'd like to think that once he gets back Torts will put him where he belongs and not overuse him since it's now obvious we don't need him in the top 9 but... I'm not optimistic about that.
Taylor Pyatt has won you over that quickly, huh?

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04-23-2013, 02:24 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Affinity View Post
The best thing to happen to this team is Brian Boyle being separated from Torts.
1994 Cup for me. Boyle getting injured is a close second.

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Old
04-23-2013, 02:30 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Ah, yes. The Jeff Halpern theorem.

So you would have preferred he fought Carkner, for what purpose?

And this discussion is incomplete without mentioning him fighting Jody Shelley in defense of a teammate.
Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Halpern physical?

Oh, you were serious?


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04-23-2013, 02:31 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
1994 Cup for me. Boyle getting injured is a close second.
-______-


Right now, sir. Right now. You don't need to be so sarcastically defensive about Boyle. I don't hate him, I hate Torts' usage of him. I think if he's centering our 4th line than we have one of the best 4Cs in the game. Saw it in the Jersey game that our 4th line is severely lacking Boyle, couldn't win a defensive faceoff and got pinned in the zone ALL GAME LONG. I like Powe, but like Boyle he is offensively inept except he's not so good on the faceoffs. Two players who should be on the 4th line, on the ice for the majority of our defensive zone faceoffs and on our PK.

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04-23-2013, 02:42 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Affinity View Post
-______-
I legitimately have no idea what this means.

I made a joke, I thought it was funny, I guess you didn't. Perhaps a should have been used.

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04-23-2013, 02:43 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Halpern physical?

Oh, you were serious?

No where did I say anything remotely like this.

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04-23-2013, 02:46 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
No where did I say anything remotely like this.
Oh, so you sniped a portion of the argument and replied to that?

even worse.

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04-23-2013, 02:58 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I legitimately have no idea what this means.

I made a joke, I thought it was funny, I guess you didn't. Perhaps a should have been used.
It's this face -_- just starring for longer. I just took your joke the wrong way no big deal.

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04-23-2013, 03:08 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The 4th lines of NHL teams are littered with them. I dont think youll find a soul that doesnt agree Boyle should be a permanent 4th liner.

The problem is, the roster still isnt deep enough and theres still a spot at the #9 forward needing to be claimed by Boyle, Pyatt, or Kreider. I begrudgingly choose Boyle at this time, even though I dont think any of them should be a top 9 forward right now.

But guess what, this is the reality of the situation and that choice needs to be made. You complaining about Boyle doesnt make that issue any less real.
Given John Moore's potential and success, as well as Stralman's consistency, and with McIlrath coming up, we should move one of our defensemen next year (MDZ, G, or Staal) in order to get another winger for this team that can score. I'm not sure that Kreider will be ready next year to give us consistent scoring, and I dont want Pyatt/Boyle holding that #9 forward spot.

Since Girardi is a RHD, and the other 3 are LHD (incl McD...though we should NOT move him), it comes down to MDZ or Staal. If it was up to me, I'd move Staal. We can get much more value from him, and I think we haven't seen the best of MDZ yet. I still think DZ will be solid on the PP in next few years, and he'll also be much much cheaper than Staal.

I said it a few weeks ago...Staal for Alex Semin/Evander Kane/Marian Hossa/Thomas Vanek, straight up. Put this winger on a line with Nash. Go.

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04-23-2013, 03:17 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
Given John Moore's potential and success, as well as Stralman's consistency, and with McIlrath coming up, we should move one of our defensemen next year (MDZ, G, or Staal) in order to get another winger for this team that can score. I'm not sure that Kreider will be ready next year to give us consistent scoring, and I dont want Pyatt/Boyle holding that #9 forward spot.

Since Girardi is a RHD, and the other 3 are LHD (incl McD...though we should NOT move him), it comes down to MDZ or Staal. If it was up to me, I'd move Staal. We can get much more value from him, and I think we haven't seen the best of MDZ yet. I still think DZ will be solid on the PP in next few years, and he'll also be much much cheaper than Staal.

I said it a few weeks ago...Staal for Alex Semin/Evander Kane/Marian Hossa/Thomas Vanek, straight up. Put this winger on a line with Nash. Go.
This is the kind of thing that has historically plagued this team. We trade player X because prospect Y is coming up, or rookie A has had a few good games, and we think they're going to be mainstays on the roster for the rest of their days. It rarely, if ever, works out like that. You trade good / cheap / young players when you have other better / cheaper / younger players pushing them out of the lineup.

I like Moore as much as anyone, but assuming he can absorb minutes that become available after the loss of a DZ or Staal is just poor asset management. If someone wants to offer up a top-nine forward and RH top-4 defender for DZ and Boyle, then I'm listening. However, just swapping a D for a winger is opening up one hole to fill another.

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04-23-2013, 03:19 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
This is the kind of thing that has historically plagued this team. We trade player X because prospect Y is coming up, or rookie A has had a few good games, and we think they're going to be mainstays on the roster for the rest of their days. It rarely, if ever, works out like that. You trade good / cheap / young players when you have other better / cheaper / younger players pushing them out of the lineup.

I like Moore as much as anyone, but assuming he can absorb minutes that become available after the loss of a DZ or Staal is just poor asset management. If someone wants to offer up a top-nine forward and RH top-4 defender for DZ and Boyle, then I'm listening. However, just swapping a D for a winger is opening up one hole to fill another.
You mean posters jump to conclusions here based on absurdly small (or zero) sample size? Sorry, I just dont buy it.

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Old
04-23-2013, 03:22 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
Given John Moore's potential and success, as well as Stralman's consistency, and with McIlrath coming up, we should move one of our defensemen next year (MDZ, G, or Staal) in order to get another winger for this team that can score. I'm not sure that Kreider will be ready next year to give us consistent scoring, and I dont want Pyatt/Boyle holding that #9 forward spot.

Since Girardi is a RHD, and the other 3 are LHD (incl McD...though we should NOT move him), it comes down to MDZ or Staal. If it was up to me, I'd move Staal. We can get much more value from him, and I think we haven't seen the best of MDZ yet. I still think DZ will be solid on the PP in next few years, and he'll also be much much cheaper than Staal.

I said it a few weeks ago...Staal for Alex Semin/Evander Kane/Marian Hossa/Thomas Vanek, straight up. Put this winger on a line with Nash. Go.
Have you seen our D since Staal went down? I truly don't understand people who watch almost every rangers game over the course of multiple years and still don't realize the value of Staal, above ANY of our other D-Men. The only one entering his realm is McD but he's taken a step back this year (after playing absurdly well last year).

Staal is our best d-man now and going forward. The only one i'd be open to trading is Girardi, since he is older, not as good as the others and takes a beating every game. I don't WANT to trade him, but i'd be open to hearing what he could bring back. This is only down the line though, not in the off-season. There is nothing saying McIlrath is ready. There is nothing saying Moore can absorb top 4 minutes. I love Stralman but it's clear that he's suited best as a 5th d-man that can slot in to the top 4 on occasion.

Also, you want to bring in Semin or Vanek after dumping Gaborik. Hossa and E. Kane won't be had for Staal.

P.S. -31-, I though your joke was funny

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04-25-2013, 12:35 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The 4th lines of NHL teams are littered with them. I dont think youll find a soul that doesnt agree Boyle should be a permanent 4th liner.

The problem is, the roster still isnt deep enough and theres still a spot at the #9 forward needing to be claimed by Boyle, Pyatt, or Kreider. I begrudgingly choose Boyle at this time, even though I dont think any of them should be a top 9 forward right now.

But guess what, this is the reality of the situation and that choice needs to be made. You complaining about Boyle doesnt make that issue any less real.
My point is that you seem to have no use for what you consider one dimensional players like Zucc and Parenteau but praise a player like Brian Boyle who is not good enough to be even considered one dimensional. He's ok on the 4th line. Parenteau and Zucc are so much more valuable to whoever they play for it's not even debatable. This is not a complaint; it is an indictment.

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04-25-2013, 12:39 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by zuckera1 View Post
Given John Moore's potential and success, as well as Stralman's consistency, and with McIlrath coming up, we should move one of our defensemen next year (MDZ, G, or Staal) in order to get another winger for this team that can score. I'm not sure that Kreider will be ready next year to give us consistent scoring, and I dont want Pyatt/Boyle holding that #9 forward spot.

Since Girardi is a RHD, and the other 3 are LHD (incl McD...though we should NOT move him), it comes down to MDZ or Staal. If it was up to me, I'd move Staal. We can get much more value from him, and I think we haven't seen the best of MDZ yet. I still think DZ will be solid on the PP in next few years, and he'll also be much much cheaper than Staal.

I said it a few weeks ago...Staal for Alex Semin/Evander Kane/Marian Hossa/Thomas Vanek, straight up. Put this winger on a line with Nash. Go.

marc staal is our best defenseman and our d is a lot worse without him in the lineup. i thought that was pretty apparent during his absence this season.

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Old
04-25-2013, 09:09 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
My point is that you seem to have no use for what you consider one dimensional players like Zucc and Parenteau but praise a player like Brian Boyle who is not good enough to be even considered one dimensional. He's ok on the 4th line. Parenteau and Zucc are so much more valuable to whoever they play for it's not even debatable. This is not a complaint; it is an indictment.
Its easy to misconstrue my points when you dont understand them. I would LOVE for Boyle to be on the 4th line. Unfortunately, this team is not deep enough right now to make that a reality. The fact that I can live with Boyle on the 3rd line, because I understand the 3rd line at the NHL level can be deployed with several different objectives, has apparently labeled me a "Boyle lover" or something silly like that.

If comparisons are being made between Boyle and Zuccarello, it just proves the lack of understanding regarding roles on a professional hockey team. They are completely different players that give you completely different things. But they do have one thing in common, they are both being asked to fill roles that are over their heads because of the poor roster construction.

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04-25-2013, 09:15 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its easy to misconstrue my points when you dont understand them. I would LOVE for Boyle to be on the 4th line. Unfortunately, this team is not deep enough right now to make that a reality. The fact that I can live with Boyle on the 3rd line, because I understand the 3rd line at the NHL level can be deployed with several different objectives, has apparently labeled me a "Boyle lover" or something silly like that.

If comparisons are being made between Boyle and Zuccarello, it just proves the lack of understanding regarding roles on a professional hockey team. They are completely different players that give you completely different things. But they do have one thing in common, they are both being asked to fill roles that are over their heads because of the poor roster construction.
When have you said anything as uncategorically negative about BB as you did about PA and Zucc. Don't hide behind semantics and team structure. That's dishonest and cowardly. What role is Zucc being asked to play that he can't handle? He battles away from the puck and on the defensive side of things and his offensive skills are clearly up to par.

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04-25-2013, 09:39 AM
  #369
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so what up with Boyle? Could use a 4th line Pker........I dont want him doing anything else but for that he's fine

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04-25-2013, 10:29 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
1994 Cup for me. Boyle getting injured is a close second.
Hahahahaha

Your blind love for Boyle is clearly clouding your judgment. The '94 Cup is overrated!

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04-25-2013, 10:30 AM
  #371
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so what up with Boyle? Could use a 4th line Pker........I dont want him doing anything else but for that he's fine
You can't have your cake and eat it too man.

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04-25-2013, 12:15 PM
  #372
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You can't have your cake and eat it too man.
"When people say "Oh you just want to have your cake and eat it too". ******* off. What good is a ******* cake you can't eat? What should I eat, someone else's cake instead?"

--George Carlin

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04-25-2013, 12:18 PM
  #373
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I've eaten literally every cake I've ever had.

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04-25-2013, 12:51 PM
  #374
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marc staal is our best defenseman and our d is a lot worse without him in the lineup. i thought that was pretty apparent during his absence this season.
He may be now but not in 3-4 years when McD and maybe DZ are fully developed. Our D hasn't been THAT bad this year, granted the corp has had some bad games but overall they're getting the job done in front of Hank.

We have the best goalie in the League, but we need to score for him! Why can't we sacrifice our most expensive defenseman who has the most market-value, who also may leave us in two years to play with his brother, for more offense? Why not get a LW that can play with Nash and can score for someone we may lose in a few years? Staal is a world-class defenseman but, in my view, he's not 10x better than G or McD, and a lot of people around the league don't view him as a #1 dman. More of like a 1st pairing dman. McD will be our #1 Dman in a few years, he's the next Brian leetch. I always thought Staal was a little overrated by our fan base.

Staal is also a stay-at-home-defenseman, but so are Girardi and McD. If we traded DZ we'd lose our best offensive defenseman.

Scoring has been our main problem this year, not defense. I'd advocate for trading Girardi but he's a RHD and has proven to be more durable over his time here. I know there was nothing Staal could do on that puck hitting him, but he was concussed for most of last year. What if it happens again?

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04-25-2013, 12:57 PM
  #375
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Quit taking this off-topic. This thread is about Brian Boyle falling down, how much faster Jeff Halpern is than Boyle and the Rangers winning without Boyle.

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