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Explosions at Marathon Part 14

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04-23-2013, 01:09 PM
  #501
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Sad that 60 minutes has like 300,000 followers and someone like lil wayne has 1 million.

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04-23-2013, 01:13 PM
  #502
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Sad that 60 minutes has like 300,000 followers and someone like lil wayne has 1 million.
weezy f and the f is for followers

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04-23-2013, 01:18 PM
  #503
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On WEEI the announcers are referring to the two terrorists as "Failure 1" and "Failure 2" which I think describes them very accurately

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04-23-2013, 01:23 PM
  #504
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On WEEI the announcers are referring to the two terrorists as "Failure 1" and "Failure 2" which I think describes them very accurately
I can think of worse to call them, but those are pretty good.

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04-23-2013, 01:31 PM
  #505
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I wouldn't disagree that constitutions shouldn't ever be modified - in fact, they are from time to time. My worries aren't so much with bag searches, etc. - a reasonable amount of security is fine - than with taking away due process rights for some people and what happens to people after they're detained for an alleged crime. Because once you start giving lawmakers and prosecutors the ability to do that for some people, it's easier to do it for others.

Maybe police and courts should have provisions for dealing with "enemies of the state," but then the issue becomes who defines who an enemy of the state is.

Lessons from history shouldn't be forgotten. It didn't take long after defeating a totalitarian dictator for US politicians to start a committee that ruined people's lives and ran roughshod over the US constitution by deeming people "unamerican" because of their political views and who they may have associated with. Don't think it can't happen again, because it can. There will always be politicians who will use fear (justified as it may be) and paranoia to further their own ends.

When people thank soldiers serving overseas for protecting their freedoms, this is what they're protecting. The rights and freedoms enshrined in documents like the US constitution, the Bill of Rights and similar documents that other nations have.

It's not the stuff of "bleeding heart liberals" - it's the foundation that all western democracies are built on. To be able to express or hold a political belief without being thrown into jail for it or detained and "questioned" for days with no charges being laid. To be able to associate legally with whomever you choose.

It's not by coincidence that the US constitution is a product of the Age of Reason, not the Age of Emotion. I know the past week has been an emotional one for people in Boston and elsewhere, a truly scary week. But just societies are built on big universal ideals like Justice and Equality, and these things need to endure. If you start chipping away at them, pretty soon you'll find yourself living in a different kind of society. Like Iran, or Russia, or...

I hope I don't sound preachy, but we always seem to take our rights and freedoms for granted and I think that's among the worst things any citizen of a democracy can do. People have fought and died for these ideas - abroad and at home.

It's a fine balancing act between security and justice, but we need to get it right and keep the big picture in mind while dealing with immediate concerns.
Excellent post; well said. I actually don't disagree with anything you've written there. I suppose I'd like to see a stricter carve out not for "enemies of the state" because, yes, that might turn into too slippery a slope, but for "acts of terror with weapons of mass destruction". I thought we had that with the NDAA (allowing even US citizens to be indefinitely detained) but experts are saying that such would apply to an American abroad but maybe not to a citizen here.

As I said, I view these as existential threats and therefore feel they warrant extraordinary measures. I, frankly, am not at all convinced that a jury would convict Suspect #2 if he ends up being well-represented, as we know he will be. He may not even end up getting life in prison. Meanwhile, his condition is being upgraded to "fair". Unfortunately, there will be no upgrade in condition for our deceased and permanently maimed. And, what message do we suppose future terrorists will get from our hand-wringing over ensuring justice for the accused? It won't be one of deterrence, I can assure you.

For the perpetrators of these kinds of acts, I do advocate a much harsher treatment than typical violators of criminal statutes. Someday, this will become a widely accepted view. Unfortunately, it will take a catastrophe to bring that home.

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04-23-2013, 01:32 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by BMC View Post
On WEEI the announcers are referring to the two terrorists as "Failure 1" and "Failure 2" which I think describes them very accurately
I referred to them as Thing 1 and Thing 2 early on, but upon reflection, found it to be too disrespectul to the esteemed Dr. Suess.

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04-23-2013, 01:43 PM
  #507
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On WEEI the announcers are referring to the two terrorists as "Failure 1" and "Failure 2" which I think describes them very accurately
You sure they weren't talking about Dennis and Callahan?

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04-23-2013, 01:45 PM
  #508
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You sure they weren't talking about Dennis and Callahan?
Now THEY would be Thing 1 and Thing 2.

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04-23-2013, 02:07 PM
  #509
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And, what message do we suppose future terrorists will get from our hand-wringing over ensuring justice for the accused? It won't be one of deterrence, I can assure you.
I would argue the message sent is that a civilized society's system of justice and equalities has endured despite their attempts to attack it with violence and anarchy.

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04-23-2013, 02:10 PM
  #510
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I can think of worse to call them, but those are pretty good.
Oh I can too but if I put them in a post they come out censored

And the guys on the radio have to be careful- the FCC let David Ortiz off but they would be sure to come down hard on radio & tv types who "slip up"

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04-23-2013, 02:12 PM
  #511
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You sure they weren't talking about Dennis and Callahan?
Well I would have said Ordway & Shepard but they're gone already thank you God

Not that I'm a D & C fan, I can tolerate them for about 5 minutes.

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04-23-2013, 02:32 PM
  #512
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I'm just going to start threadbanning people who cant stay on topic. Not that anybody pays attention to my posts anyway. But at least I warned people.
Try a nice big font or color, might work

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04-23-2013, 02:36 PM
  #513
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Any news since yesterday? All I found is that he's blaming his brother and says they worked alone.

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04-23-2013, 02:40 PM
  #514
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Any news since yesterday? All I found is that he's blaming his brother and says they worked alone.
S2 says they found out how to make the explosives from an AQ outlet.

Something about S1 being closely tied to a triple murder in Waltham a couple years ago. Perhaps it's been mentioned earlier in this thread (I haven't kept close track in here since yesterday afternoon), but it seems to be running with some steam today (at least according to the radio news I've got on in the office).

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04-23-2013, 02:40 PM
  #515
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Any news since yesterday? All I found is that he's blaming his brother and says they worked alone.
What did he say that blames his brother? I missed that part

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04-23-2013, 02:42 PM
  #516
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For folks coming thru Cambridge tommorrow:

Cambridge to close major roads for slain officer's memorial service
Police have announced what they are calling significant traffic restrictions and road closures in Cambridge Wednesday for the memorial service for slain MIT Police Officer Sean Collier.

According to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the White House has confirmed that Vice President Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, will attend the service, along with Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick and other dignitaries.

The memorial service on Briggs Field at noon Wednesday is only for members of law enforcement and the members of the MIT community with valid MIT identification, according to Cambridge Police. As many as 10,000 people are expected to attend, according to MIT.


http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/...jor_roads.html

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04-23-2013, 02:43 PM
  #517
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What did he say that blames his brother? I missed that part
Claims his brother was the 'driving force' is what an article says.


Quote:
Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has reportedly told investigators that his brother was the driving force behind the attack and that the pair were not connected to any wider terrorist network.


A US government source told CNN that the 19-year-old, still in a serious condition in Boston’s Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital, claimed that his brother Tamerlan had organised the bombings because he wanted to “defend” Islam.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-8584555.html

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04-23-2013, 02:44 PM
  #518
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searching people's houses in the name of security is the first step down a very, very slippery slope for a lot of people. that's the point.
I would be more than happy to let SWAT into my house if they asked so long as they were respectful enough. They aren't soldiers tearing apart your house in a search for a HVT and I doubt they have the time to care about what they see in your home so long as the target isn't there.

I care about freedom, but sometimes, just sometimes the end justifies the means. If the end is a safer community and a potent threat eliminated, they have my blessing essentially.

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04-23-2013, 02:44 PM
  #519
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Try a nice big font or color, might work
When I have to get a message across and have a couple extra seconds,


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04-23-2013, 02:51 PM
  #520
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http://world.time.com/2013/04/22/tsa...tan/?hpt=hp_t2

There you go. While in Russia he went to regions and mosques well known for extremism, and radical islam. Russia knew he was bad news, and b/c the FBI didn't find him making bombs, or waving a black flag, they shrugged it off. As in all likelihood, a judge would have probably turned them down for a warrant to do much else despite only being a naturalized citizen.

Meanwhile, it didn't take long for this to devolve into a political, or civil rights debate. Draconian measures being taken to take away our right to d/l porn and hack twitter accounts. Artemis and her immigrant husband being accused of being IRA, arbitrarily rounded up at gunpoint. Again, when has this happened in this country since 2001? Show me. Next I'm going to be lectured on the Japanese in internment camps in WWII.

No one has to tell me that all muslims are not terrorists. Do you think the people that followed Bin Laden's courier looked like James Bond? When you hear a/b a foiled terrorist plot in the US, b/c a terrorist tried to buy high explosives from an FBI agent posing as a sympathizer, he looked like Jack Bauer? If you believe that, you're naïve. Because they didn't, many of them were American born muslims/Arabs/Pashtu, who bust their ass and risk their lives to defend this country.

But when someone is getting tossed out of mosques here, and the Russian FSB warns you that he's associating w/ bad actors over there. One look at his youtube channel would have told you where his head was. Well, guess what would be civil rights activists? That's not crime. Otherwise, a lot of college professors would be under surveillance by "Big Brother", too. Judges want good probable cause for a warrant, they don't give you warrants b/c you think someone may be up to something. There's a mountain of difference between intelligence, and evidence.

In the end, this what it's going to come down to. Same deal as 9-11. Some of the 9-11 hijackers were on the CIA's radar. But not the FBI's. Because one deals in intelligence and probability, the other in evidence that can be proven in a court of law. In fact, before 9-11, it was illegal for the two agencies to share information, and for that very reason.

This could have been prevented. And, w/o crumpling up the constitution. Have to do better next time. Because there will be a next time, as you found out yesterday.

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04-23-2013, 02:54 PM
  #521
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weezy f and the f is for followers


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04-23-2013, 02:55 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
http://world.time.com/2013/04/22/tsa...tan/?hpt=hp_t2

There you go. While in Russia he went to regions and mosques well known for extremism, and radical islam. Russia knew he was bad news, and b/c the FBI didn't find him making bombs, or waving a black flag, they shrugged it off. As in all likelihood, a judge would have probably turned them down for a warrant to do much else despite only being a naturalized citizen.

Meanwhile, it didn't take long for this to devolve into a political, or civil rights debate. Draconian measures being taken to take away our right to d/l porn and hack twitter accounts. Artemis and her immigrant husband being accused of being IRA, arbitrarily rounded up at gunpoint. Again, when has this happened in this country since 2001? Show me. Next I'm going to be lectured on the Japanese in internment camps in WWII.

No one has to tell me that all muslims are not terrorists. Do you think the people that followed Bin Laden's courier looked like James Bond? When you hear a/b a foiled terrorist plot in the US, b/c a terrorist tried to buy high explosives from an FBI agent posing as a sympathizer, he looked like Jack Bauer? If you believe that, you're naïve. Because they didn't, many of them were American born muslims/Arabs/Pashtu, who bust their ass and risk their lives to defend this country.

But when someone is getting tossed out of mosques here, and the Russian FSB warns you that he's associating w/ bad actors over there. One look at his youtube channel would have told you where his head was. Well, guess what would be civil rights activists? That's not crime. Otherwise, a lot of college professors would be under surveillance by "Big Brother", too. Judges want good probable cause for a warrant, they don't give you warrants b/c you think someone may be up to something. There's a mountain of difference between intelligence, and evidence.

In the end, this what it's going to come down to. Same deal as 9-11. Some of the 9-11 hijackers were on the CIA's radar. But not the FBI's. Because one deals in intelligence and probability, the other in evidence that can be proven in a court of law. In fact, before 9-11, it was illegal for the two agencies to share information, and for that very reason.

This could have been prevented. And, w/o crumpling up the constitution. Have to do better next time. Because there will be a next time, as you found out yesterday.
I believe you are correct, and I believe the agencies involved will come to similar conclusions and ideally, they will adapt for the future. I mean...it's not like the FSB was passing this info along for ***** and giggles. They hate terrorists as much as we do.

A lot was changed after 9/11. Streamlining a little more so this sort of thing doesn't fall between the cracks when foreign agencies give us the info isn't much of a leap.

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04-23-2013, 02:57 PM
  #523
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I would argue the message sent is that a civilized society's system of justice and equalities has endured despite their attempts to attack it with violence and anarchy.
Well said, as well as your original post.

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04-23-2013, 03:02 PM
  #524
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[QUOTE=LyricalLyricist;64518143]Claims his brother was the 'driving force' is what an article says.

Quote:
Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev has reportedly told investigators that his brother was the driving force behind the attack and that the pair were not connected to any wider terrorist network.


A US government source told CNN that the 19-year-old, still in a serious condition in Boston’s Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital, claimed that his brother Tamerlan had organised the bombings because he wanted to “defend” Islam.



Ahhh...now it all makes sense! Cuz clearly those marathon runners and spectators were all out there in a concerted effort to bring down Islam.

Dirt bag #1 got off too lightly.

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04-23-2013, 03:07 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by Neely08 View Post
http://world.time.com/2013/04/22/tsa...tan/?hpt=hp_t2

There you go. While in Russia he went to regions and mosques well known for extremism, and radical islam. Russia knew he was bad news, and b/c the FBI didn't find him making bombs, or waving a black flag, they shrugged it off. As in all likelihood, a judge would have probably turned them down for a warrant to do much else despite only being a naturalized citizen.

Meanwhile, it didn't take long for this to devolve into a political, or civil rights debate. Draconian measures being taken to take away our right to d/l porn and hack twitter accounts. Artemis and her immigrant husband being accused of being IRA, arbitrarily rounded up at gunpoint. Again, when has this happened in this country since 2001? Show me. Next I'm going to be lectured on the Japanese in internment camps in WWII.

No one has to tell me that all muslims are not terrorists. Do you think the people that followed Bin Laden's courier looked like James Bond? When you hear a/b a foiled terrorist plot in the US, b/c a terrorist tried to buy high explosives from an FBI agent posing as a sympathizer, he looked like Jack Bauer? If you believe that, you're naïve. Because they didn't, many of them were American born muslims/Arabs/Pashtu, who bust their ass and risk their lives to defend this country.

But when someone is getting tossed out of mosques here, and the Russian FSB warns you that he's associating w/ bad actors over there. One look at his youtube channel would have told you where his head was. Well, guess what would be civil rights activists? That's not crime. Otherwise, a lot of college professors would be under surveillance by "Big Brother", too. Judges want good probable cause for a warrant, they don't give you warrants b/c you think someone may be up to something. There's a mountain of difference between intelligence, and evidence.

In the end, this what it's going to come down to. Same deal as 9-11. Some of the 9-11 hijackers were on the CIA's radar. But not the FBI's. Because one deals in intelligence and probability, the other in evidence that can be proven in a court of law. In fact, before 9-11, it was illegal for the two agencies to share information, and for that very reason.

This could have been prevented. And, w/o crumpling up the constitution. Have to do better next time. Because there will be a next time, as you found out yesterday.
Man, I may not agree with you 100% of the time, but you've put out some clear, concise and sensible posts since this creeyap went down.

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