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Does anybody have any insight as to JR's strategy? (if he even has one)

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04-23-2013, 01:09 PM
  #26
wallym
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I'd rather have a healthy defense playing in front of Dan Ellis, than Cam Ward playing in front of the defense with Faulk or Pitaknen (or both) out.

Faulk-Gleason is a good top pairing.
Pitkanen-??? is an okay 2nd pairing
Harrison-Corvo is a good 3rd pairing.

Alas, we ended up with

Corvo-Gleason
Harrison-Murphy
McBain-Jordan

Or some such abomination for a couple games at one point.

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04-23-2013, 01:16 PM
  #27
Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
I'd rather have a healthy defense playing in front of Dan Ellis, than Cam Ward playing in front of the defense with Faulk or Pitaknen (or both) out.

Faulk-Gleason is a good top pairing.
Pitkanen-??? is an okay 2nd pairing
Harrison-Corvo is a good 3rd pairing.

Alas, we ended up with

Corvo-Gleason
Harrison-Murphy
McBain-Jordan

Or some such abomination for a couple games at one point.
Faulk didn't get hurt until after Ward was out, so I'm not sure what you are trying to get at.

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04-23-2013, 03:13 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I agree that McBain is gone. If you take him off the powerplay, you eliminate the reason he should be playing big minutes for you. Even there he's not a game changer. If you believe you have one in Murphy, then McBain becomes somewhat expendable.

Agreed on Pitkanen too, but doubt we can find anybody to take him after such a horrific injury. That broken heel could be a game changer. People are going to want to see him back healthy before they commit that kind of coin to him.

But the truth is that we'll probably just stick with the status quo on defense. I don't see too many big chances for the roster this offseason, save potentially working a draft pick into the lineup. That'll be our big offseason addition.
This. JR is quick to blame failures on the IR list. Justifiable this season. The healthy team we watched this seasons that dominated at times will be the same one next year. Fingers crossed injuries stay far away.

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04-23-2013, 03:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
I'm pumped we got Jordan staal. We got the best player. We have him for a long time. Sutter wouldn't have done anything to change this season and isn't at the same level as staal. Never has been.

It was a bad year. Off to a bad start, turned it for a month, then injuries and reality set in. We don't have depth. Jr cant fix everything at once. I can't believe the guy made the biggest moves and had the strongest summer of his career and people are whining about the job he did. It wasn't going to be a one summer move. Our d sucked last year, and its the same now. He could only do so much in one summer. He has acknowledged the defense issue, so I will reserve judgement till next season to see what's changed. I don't defend jr often, but I feel obligated after last summer. He's gone after top talent, he let kids play. We need depth and better d. I'm looking forward to next year, we showed we have the basis of a very good team. I don't get the questioning of jrs plan 45 games after he finally starts making the moves we've been waiting years for him to do.

Everyone's cool with the suck for all these years, but we want him gone now? Should've been gone a decade ago. Now we ride out where this is going.
After I fell out of my chair, I needed to quote this. Bleedgreen defending JR?

FWIW, I agree with what you say.

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04-23-2013, 03:31 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
In regards to the overall team identity, there's no doubt that this team has lacked one for a couple of years now. In the late 2000s, the Canes were a model "new NHL" team. Small, fast, good at drawing and scoring on penalties. With the league going back into "old NHL" mode, the team needs to update its style.

.
Think you are on to something here too. We restructured for the "new" game, and the PTB decided they didn't really want to keep that after all. Remember how good Canes and Sabres were in 05-06? the new look fast-paced NHL? Seems like a long time ago now.

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04-23-2013, 03:41 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Yes.

ouch--I take it back.

Maybe a Tiger the golfing theme?

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04-23-2013, 03:55 PM
  #32
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by Citizen Cane View Post
Think you are on to something here too. We restructured for the "new" game, and the PTB decided they didn't really want to keep that after all. Remember how good Canes and Sabres were in 05-06? the new look fast-paced NHL? Seems like a long time ago now.
FWIW, I think Muller is trying to get an identity for the team. He wants them to be an aggressive forechecking team with some physical players in the bottom 6. I think he really wants them to be hard to play against. Unfortunately, the personnel doesn't match the coaches desire, in fact, in some cases it's the exact opposite.

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04-23-2013, 04:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
FWIW, I think Muller is trying to get an identity for the team. He wants them to be an aggressive forechecking team with some physical players in the bottom 6. I think he really wants them to be hard to play against. Unfortunately, the personnel doesn't match the coaches desire, in fact, in some cases it's the exact opposite.
This is one of the reasons I'm willing to give Muller a bit of leash despite some obvious struggles this season. He's made it clear that he wants a tougher, grittier team and JR goes out and gets him... Joe Corvo and Marc-Andre Bergeron. To JR's credit, he has made some attempts to beef up the 4th line but it's clearly going to be at least another season before Muller has the roster he wants.

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04-23-2013, 04:10 PM
  #34
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I'm pumped try finally gave Blanchard a chance. He's played well, good decisions with the puck, aggressive forechecking, effective hitter and better than average hands for a role player/ fourth liner.


Last edited by bleedgreen: 04-23-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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04-23-2013, 04:54 PM
  #35
wallym
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
Faulk didn't get hurt until after Ward was out, so I'm not sure what you are trying to get at.
My opinion is that Ellis + a healthy defense > Ward + banged up defense.

I think if Faulk and Ellis don't get hurt, we probably could have hung on, and made the playoffs.

We went 1-8 when Faulk was out. Maybe his name should start showing up in the team MVP discussion?

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04-23-2013, 05:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
My opinion is that Ellis + a healthy defense > Ward + banged up defense.

I think if Faulk and Ellis don't get hurt, we probably could have hung on, and made the playoffs.

We went 1-8 when Faulk was out. Maybe his name should start showing up in the team MVP discussion?
Agreed.

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04-23-2013, 06:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
I'm pumped try finally gave Blanchard a chance. He's played well, good decisions with the puck, aggressive forechecking, effective hitter and better than average hands for a role player/ fourth liner.
Yes. Put Blanchard with Wallace and probably Sutter next year. That's a pretty good fourth line that can hit, forecheck, play defense and even scrap a little. I like that group quite a bit.

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04-23-2013, 06:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
Yes. Put Blanchard with Wallace and probably Sutter next year. That's a pretty good fourth line that can hit, forecheck, play defense and even scrap a little. I like that group quite a bit.
Agreed. A true gritty energy line that can lay some pain is exactly what the Canes need.

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04-23-2013, 07:11 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
Yes. Put Blanchard with Wallace and probably Sutter next year. That's a pretty good fourth line that can hit, forecheck, play defense and even scrap a little. I like that group quite a bit.
love Sutter. I want this line next year.

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04-24-2013, 07:46 AM
  #40
Joe McGrath
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
Yes. Put Blanchard with Wallace and probably Sutter next year. That's a pretty good fourth line that can hit, forecheck, play defense and even scrap a little. I like that group quite a bit.
I wouldn't presume any of those players while grouped together would be effective forecheckers and defensively reliable. Wallace has shown that he isn't, and if Brett Sutter was he probably would already be on someone's fourth line. I think anyone of those players on their own would be OK fourth liners/reliable AHL call ups, but going in with that as a fourth line is asking for trouble. What you describe is exactly what I would want for a fourth line, I just wouldn't expect to get it from that particular combination of players.

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04-24-2013, 09:55 AM
  #41
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Uncle Jimmy has to address the defense...eventually...I hope. My biggest gripe with JR is evidenced by what he did last summer with the D. He says he's going to make a splash in free agency on defense. He sticks his toe in the free agent pool and shivered. He then signed Corvo and said "We like our group". You can not assemble an NHL defense that way. I agree that he has put his eggs in the Cam Ward basket thinking it's cheaper to pay one goalie than 6 defensemen, and that's worked out like gangbusters.

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04-24-2013, 09:58 AM
  #42
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JR is a genius man, he'll have a plan for everything!

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04-24-2013, 10:09 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by sheriff bart View Post
Uncle Jimmy has to address the defense...eventually...I hope. My biggest gripe with JR is evidenced by what he did last summer with the D. He says he's going to make a splash in free agency on defense. He sticks his toe in the free agent pool and shivered. He then signed Corvo and said "We like our group". You can not assemble an NHL defense that way. I agree that he has put his eggs in the Cam Ward basket thinking it's cheaper to pay one goalie than 6 defensemen, and that's worked out like gangbusters.
While what you wrote is true, the free agent defensive crop was pretty woeful this past year with very few worthy players being courted by a lot of teams.

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04-24-2013, 10:27 AM
  #44
sheriff bart
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
While what you wrote is true, the free agent defensive crop was pretty woeful this past year with very few worthy players being courted by a lot of teams.
True, but then how about a trade?

I thought that Corvo was really a stop gap until Murphy came in. I thought for sure that he was going to try to do a package deal containing McBain (pre-suck McBain) and something else to bring in a serviceable d-man that didn't mess his britches or chase shiny objects on a regular basis. This team has been woeful on defense for a long time and JR keeps signing the Alberts, Harrisons, and Corvos of the world while ignoring defense in the draft for the longest time. Faulk and McBain are the only ones on the squad that were drafted by the Canes, and we have the pitchforks and torches out for McBain right now.

disclaimer: I really like Harrison. He's steady, but not a top 4 guy.

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04-24-2013, 10:53 AM
  #45
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by sheriff bart View Post
True, but then how about a trade?

I thought that Corvo was really a stop gap until Murphy came in. I thought for sure that he was going to try to do a package deal containing McBain (pre-suck McBain) and something else to bring in a serviceable d-man that didn't mess his britches or chase shiny objects on a regular basis. This team has been woeful on defense for a long time and JR keeps signing the Alberts, Harrisons, and Corvos of the world while ignoring defense in the draft for the longest time. Faulk and McBain are the only ones on the squad that were drafted by the Canes, and we have the pitchforks and torches out for McBain right now.

disclaimer: I really like Harrison. He's steady, but not a top 4 guy.
Don't disagree with what you wrote, but trades are easier said than done as you need a willing dance partner. Teams typically aren't willing to give up solid top 4 "defensive" defensemen. I'm not trying to defend Rutherford, as the defense is a mess and he owns that. I just don't think there were a lot of options this last off-season specifically. The issue I do have is that this has been a long time coming and he's had multiple seasons to try and do something about it and has failed. Hopefully that can be rectified in the next couple of years without gutting the team to do it.

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04-24-2013, 11:18 AM
  #46
sheriff bart
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Don't disagree with what you wrote, but trades are easier said than done as you need a willing dance partner. Teams typically aren't willing to give up solid top 4 "defensive" defensemen. I'm not trying to defend Rutherford, as the defense is a mess and he owns that. I just don't think there were a lot of options this last off-season specifically. The issue I do have is that this has been a long time coming and he's had multiple seasons to try and do something about it and has failed. Hopefully that can be rectified in the next couple of years without gutting the team to do it.
The reasons you stated are exactly why it is so important to draft and develop your own players. JR has publicly stated that he didn't like to take d-men with high draft choices because by the time they developed, they were into free agency. Well, you have to get them somewhere. I agree that trades are tough because what team is looking to move a top 4 d-man. Getting them in free agency is tough because the demand is greater than the supply. If Jimmy doesn't want to draft them, can't trade for them, and can't sign them, where are they supposed to come from?

He has changed that policy of not drafting defense high the last couple of years, but the team is still paying the price.

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04-25-2013, 09:39 AM
  #47
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We now have chip joining Luke and Tripp on the "there will be changes" bandwagon. It's the best we can hope for, in other years we hear how the team wasn't really that bad and use the late season push as reason for optimism. Jr himself has said they have to fix some things, especially d - as well all these other insiders that usually only speak up when such things are done deals. Will it be a melichar/babchuk fix or a real one? That's what I'll reserve judgement on. To me the question is what can they do?

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04-25-2013, 10:40 AM
  #48
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Give up on these PMD's that don't add much offense and make huge numbers of boneheaded plays resulting in 2 on 1's or worse?

We've got the offense to score points, lets get a defense that isn't going to hand it right back.

It's been one of the most infuriating parts of the year. The team plays well, goes up a goal, and then one of our PMD's makes a risky pinch with minimal upside, and gives up an odd man rush to let the other team to tie it up.

It's also one of the more optimistic aspects of the game. Because it's 1 player making 1 stupid play. That's a lot easier to fix, than if the team is being pinned in their own zone night in and night out, and just outmatched line vs line.

We mostly get beat because our bad players are epically bad. Peters/McBain/Sangs in particular have each taken it upon themselves to lose us games almost singlehandedly.

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