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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

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04-23-2013, 08:12 PM
  #426
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Why would the NHL WANT to move out of a market that loyally supports the chronic worst team in the league and that pays among the highest gates in the league to see its worst product.

Any sensible league would be wetting itself over what dreck this fanbase will line up to support.

A team might end up in Seattle. For that team to be the oilers makes zero sense for the NHL.

If I could add this is Edmonton, It would be unwise to say the least for the league to leave Edmonton and in bad terms (which would certainly be the case)
When Edmonton formerly didn't have an NHL club it, and other canadian cities and representatives were front center in devising/starting a competing league. I would imagine the same thing would happen again, possibly this time with the new league being an actual "world" league. I would line up for tickets to that league and forget about the NHL in a heartbeat.
There is no way a profitable franchise such as Edmonton is ahead of some of the NHL's basket cases in the 'move' Q.

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04-23-2013, 08:12 PM
  #427
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100X more people? How should anybody take a comment like that seriously?

If anything big ticket entertainment is a fairly exclusive activity. I wonder what proportion of the population regularly goes to a bigticket arena.

Add any economic downturn to the equation and the first thing to go is people spending huge amounts on entertainment.
Think about how many events happen at Rexall. Think about the number of people that go to events at Rexall.

The old Edmonton Art Gallery had attendance of about 20,000 PER YEAR. Rexall gets that in half a week in live attendance and thousands more watch events at Rexall on TV.

Of course, the budget for building a new arena is much greater than the budget for building the new art gallery, but the relative benefit to the Edmonton area is proportionally greater.

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04-23-2013, 08:12 PM
  #428
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Wrong. Historically, during economic depression and recession people end up spending more on entertainment and escapism.
They spend modest amounts on movies. Spend more on books, on cheap entertainment. This being very much the case. Correct.

A person that can't pay the mortgage doesn't instead pay 100bucks minimum/ticket, and several hundred bucks on a night out. If you know people like that I feel sorry for them. Wave at them for me as their house is foreclosed and they're out the door.

To suggest that people that don't have money pay regularly for bigticket entertainment is disingenuous if not impossible.

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04-23-2013, 08:15 PM
  #429
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Think about how many events happen at Rexall. Think about the number of people that go to events at Rexall.

The old Edmonton Art Gallery had attendance of about 20,000 PER YEAR. Rexall gets that in half a week in live attendance and thousands more watch events at Rexall on TV.

Of course, the budget for building a new arena is much greater than the budget for building the new art gallery, but the relative benefit to the Edmonton area is proportionally greater.
Wait, were including watching on TV as a benefit?

I don't know anybody around these parts that doesn't consider it a habituated chore. Cutting the lawn promises to be better entertainment.

But anyway, lets look quickly at some current downtown facilities. Current Art Gallery does over 100k patrons/year (****** I realize) Citadel theatre draws a lot larger numbers with multiple theatres and a good fanbase. Hard to guesstimate annual numbers but they could get 2k in one night in a facility that cost the city very little. Next Winspear which again cost very little with 1800 capacity.
WE could factor in Shaw Conference Center as well and look at annual numbers for that facility which can house as much as 5k for concert setting.

Point is all these downtown facilities combined cost the city far less than the current arena will and with combined patron use that would put them on a similar level to what the new arena would attract. You could get away with saying the new arena would attract twice as many people. But 100X? Forget it.


Last edited by Replacement: 04-23-2013 at 08:27 PM.
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04-23-2013, 08:16 PM
  #430
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When Edmonton formerly didn't have an NHL club it, and other canadian cities and representatives were front center in devising/starting a competing league. I would imagine the same thing would happen again, possibly this time with the new league being an actual "world" league. I would line up for tickets to that league and forget about the NHL in a heartbeat.
Yeah, let's start our own league! With blackjack, and hookers!

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04-23-2013, 08:25 PM
  #431
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Yeah, let's start our own league! With blackjack, and hookers!
Sounds like the KHL minus the criminals. Whats the problem?

Sorry you missed the WHA. On many nights a better, and much more compelling product.


Last edited by Replacement: 04-23-2013 at 08:35 PM.
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04-23-2013, 08:26 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Why would the NHL WANT to move out of a market that loyally supports the chronic worst team in the league and that pays among the highest gates in the league to see its worst product.

Any sensible league would be wetting itself over what dreck this fanbase will line up to support.

A team might end up in Seattle. For that team to be the oilers makes zero sense for the NHL.

If I could add this is Edmonton, It would be unwise to say the least for the league to leave Edmonton and in bad terms (which would certainly be the case)
When Edmonton formerly didn't have an NHL club it, and other canadian cities and representatives were front center in devising/starting a competing league. I would imagine the same thing would happen again, possibly this time with the new league being an actual "world" league. I would line up for tickets to that league and forget about the NHL in a heartbeat.
The league can wet itself all it wants. It can't force Katz to sell cheap, and they can't force him to lose money playing in Rexall and they can't tell him to pay for the arena himself.

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04-23-2013, 08:33 PM
  #433
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The league can wet itself all it wants. It can't force Katz to sell cheap, and they can't force him to lose money playing in Rexall and they can't tell him to pay for the arena himself.
What prevents another move into Seatlle by another owner BEFORE Katz?

Why would Katz move to seattle in what is a far worse deal than what he's stated he requires here?


Given that the Seattle arrangement wasn't attractive, and wasn't very enticing to a prospective NHL club (and why would it be in that market) what other prospective markets would offer a better deal? Finally, which of those would be viable, and better hockey markets than this one.

Sure Katz COULD move. But why would he?

Hypotheticals are interesting. Katz leveraging in this regard is sublime comedy. " I'll move really I will, if only I could find a better place and better deal"...

Watching Katz stumbling with idle threats and apologies has been the best entertainment offered by this org in years.

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04-23-2013, 09:14 PM
  #434
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If Seattle wants a team, and Katz wants to move there, I guarantee the NHL will allow it. And yeah, put Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yak in any other market and they will sell tickets. The NHL and city can't force Katz to build an arena with his own money
not a chance NHL allows it. NONE. Tell me, why hasnt Florida or Phoenix moved there? Its a far better market.
The market here is thriving. New arena or no new arena. One of the top 10 in the league.
So no, NHL wont allow a team to move from a thriving market t one where the NHL would get no expansion fees.

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04-23-2013, 09:17 PM
  #435
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I'm trying to figure out which multimillionaire/billionaire that Edmonton hasn't run out of town yet that would buy the Oilers.

Can't think of a single one.
Yeah, we are really running his inept ass out of town. Basically selling out every game for the worst team in the NHL over the last 7 years & gifting his greedy ass a new arena.
Yup, hes sure been run out of town

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04-23-2013, 09:20 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
The league can wet itself all it wants. It can't force Katz to sell cheap, and they can't force him to lose money playing in Rexall and they can't tell him to pay for the arena himself.
See, thats what you don't get. He's not losing money. He's making tons. To suggest he's losing $$$ is really just drinking the kool aid

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04-23-2013, 09:50 PM
  #437
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See, thats what you don't get. He's not losing money. He's making tons. To suggest he's losing $$$ is really just drinking the kool aid
I know he's making money now, but you can't keep making money in a building that is in a steep decline. When arena's are rated around the league Edmonton is always right at the bottom in pretty much every category.

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04-23-2013, 10:00 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
What prevents another move into Seatlle by another owner BEFORE Katz?

Why would Katz move to seattle in what is a far worse deal than what he's stated he requires here?


Given that the Seattle arrangement wasn't attractive, and wasn't very enticing to a prospective NHL club (and why would it be in that market) what other prospective markets would offer a better deal? Finally, which of those would be viable, and better hockey markets than this one.

Sure Katz COULD move. But why would he?

Hypotheticals are interesting. Katz leveraging in this regard is sublime comedy. " I'll move really I will, if only I could find a better place and better deal"...

Watching Katz stumbling with idle threats and apologies has been the best entertainment offered by this org in years.
It's literally new arena or bust for the Oilers. Can't get much simpler than that. Katz doesn't want to move the team at all, but if the future is unsustainable and we end up barely being able to afford a cap floor roster then its a strict business decision to sell.

I mean, what do you think is going to happen if this arena deal falls through? Katz just signs a 35 year lease anyway?

A new outside owner moves the team. Whether that's to Seattle, Quebec City, Nepal, it doesn't matter.

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04-23-2013, 10:34 PM
  #439
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Why don't you pop in a google image search of Calgary's skyline to find out. You can identify their companies at the top of the skyscrapers.
Yup, I googled it. So which one of those billionaires?

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04-23-2013, 10:42 PM
  #440
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A proposed $50 Million to remake Churchill Square.

The city will find the $ for the new arena if the Province doesn't pitch in.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Edito...981/story.html

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04-23-2013, 11:01 PM
  #441
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Yeah, let's start our own league! With blackjack, and hookers!
Love that show.

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04-23-2013, 11:18 PM
  #442
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So Staples wrote a piece about the Gretzky statue being moved tonight with none of the doomsaying from earlier today. Guy's bi-polar.

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04-23-2013, 11:40 PM
  #443
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meh. the old statue isn't big enough.

with the long stretch of losing and the desire to relive the glory days Katz needs a new statue to go along with his new arena. bigger too.

something like this.


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04-23-2013, 11:50 PM
  #444
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meh. the old statue isn't big enough.

with the long stretch of losing and the desire to relive the glory days Katz needs a new statue to go along with his new arena. bigger too.

something like this.

Sounds like a great idea what with the Oilers requiring divine intervention and all.

Theres still hope..

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04-23-2013, 11:53 PM
  #445
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A proposed $50 Million to remake Churchill Square.

The city will find the $ for the new arena if the Province doesn't pitch in.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Edito...981/story.html

This being an idea even city hall managed to laugh off the table. What a cluster****. Develop a new Churchill square just a decade ago that was designed to be lower than street level, spend 15M on it. then a decade later saying its all wrong and wanting to take the area back to street level where it always was....

With any luck we can have metropolis tents and giraffes and a 3 ring circus what with this being so close to silly hall.

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04-24-2013, 01:50 AM
  #446
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I apologize for the following wall of text.

TL;DR – Our loyalty as fans isn’t an issue. The economic realities of a market Edmonton’s size are.

It seems unbelievable that the Oilers could find a better fanbase than Edmonton but when there’s talk about the team moving, fan support is only one factor that DK and the NHL will look at before permitting relocation.

No one is questioning our loyalty. The reality is that you could put the Oilers in pretty much any other major Canadian market and the rink would sell out. Winnipeg is sold out for something like five years straight and I have to believe the same thing would happen in Hamilton or Quebec City or Toronto.

Edmonton is one of the smallest media markets in the league. With the possible exception of Winnipeg, every other Canadian franchise will charge more for things like rink boards and sponsorships. You can argue that Oilers fans are the most loyal fans in the NHL but we’re also one of the smallest fanbases in Canada. That means the Oilers receive less compensation for radio broadcast rights.

And because Northlands has its claws in Rexall Place, the Oilers only receive revenue for Oilers related events. When Justin Bieber or Beyonce come to town, the Oilers don’t see any of that revenue. That’s not the case in other buildings around the league. Same goes for parking and concession revenues. These are additional revenue streams that the Oilers don’t have access to.

The reason the NHL has been hesitant to move the Coyotes is the same reason it would allow the Oilers to move: an arena. Glendale partnered with an NHL owner to build a new arena and now the NHL feels it has a responsibility to do everything in its power to make the arrangement (as deeply flawed as it may be) work.

You don’t have to believe me. The NHL itself said that a franchise with no lease and no prospect of a modern facility is a prime candidate for relocation.

While the first priority would be to keep franchises in their existing markets, a relocation application may be considered if the franchise does not have a binding lease. Such an application involves the consideration of some 24 factors, as set forth in the NHL Constitution and By-Laws, and is subject to a majority vote of the Board of Governors. The prevailing rules emphasize current local market viability first and foremost. Franchises whose markets are not viable due to the absence of a state-of-the-art arena and a sustainable financial model for the franchise may be considered candidates for relocation, again assuming there is no binding lease obligation.

July 21, 2010 City Council Meeting
Item 5.4 – Sports and Entertainment Facility
Supplemental Questions from Mayor and Council Questions for the Katz Group


I’m a huge believer in this project, both for hockey fans and for Edmontonians as a group but even I’ve become weary of watching the team suck up and down the ice while watching this arena soap opera drag on for more than half-a-decade.

In 2013, a large percentage of stadiums and arenas get built with public dollars. You don’t have to like it but you need to accept the fact that the only way Edmonton gets a new arena is if taxpayers make a sizeable financial investment in the project.

If I haven’t bored you into a coma with my dissertation, you can read more about the reality of the situation here: http://www.yegarena.com/2012/10/find-way.html

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04-24-2013, 02:00 AM
  #447
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
If Seattle wants a team, and Katz wants to move there, I guarantee the NHL will allow it. And yeah, put Hall, Eberle, RNH and Yak in any other market and they will sell tickets. The NHL and city can't force Katz to build an arena with his own money
I doubt that the NHL will move from a market that is getting sellouts every game for one of the worst teams in the league. Only thing I could possibly see is another teams coming here and replacing the Oilers if they moved, but the more likely move is Katz would take the moving team to the new city.

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04-24-2013, 02:10 AM
  #448
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Everyone here knows you have an unabashed hate of Katz, but he hasn't been the one in city counsel chambers telling the citizens of Edmonton that provincial money is magically appearing over the next two decades. That's been Mandel and Co.
I agreed that Mandel was to blame and I added Katz too. He has not been a great negotiator through this process. Barely shows his face but has a lot of stipulations and even wanted the city to break a bylaw regarding guaranteed leases in Katz's office buildings. I don't have a clue where Mandel got the idea he was getting the money from the govt, he is looking to leave a legacy and the arena is it. He is proposing a fountain right outside each entrance for people to throw change into them so they can help fund the arena. The fountains will be called the Mandel Funnels

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04-24-2013, 02:16 AM
  #449
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Yeah, we are really running his inept ass out of town. Basically selling out every game for the worst team in the NHL over the last 7 years & gifting his greedy ass a new arena.
Yup, hes sure been run out of town
But we aren't giving enough. As a billionaire welfare queen he is entitled to more. Isn't he? Poor guy.

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04-24-2013, 02:25 AM
  #450
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Leaving the Katz hate out of this, everyone knew the arena was necessary and eventually going to happen. Why ***** and complain for years when we could have saved much more than the currently missing amount by putting the project through long ago.

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