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Is this the most lopsided trade ever?

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Old
01-17-2010, 11:05 PM
  #76
mobilus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
unusual circumstances, but in '57...
Yes, the Lindsay trade to Chicago was to break up Ted's activities in trying to organize a Player's Union.

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Old
01-18-2010, 07:58 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
unusual circumstances, but in '57...

Ted Lindsay, age 31, had just led the NHL in assists, finished 2nd in scoring, and had his career high in points. he was named 1st AS for the 8th time. his line with Ullman and Howe had just set a new record for points by a line in a season.

Glenn Hall, age 25, was in the middle of a streak of 502 consecutive starts. he had just been voted 1st AS and had been 2nd AS in his rookie season ('56) and won the calder.

DRW finished 1st in the regular season.



Jack Adams traded Hall and Lindsay to Chicago for:


Johnny Wilson, age 28, a good 2nd liner. Wilson was traded 2 years later for Barry Cullen, who played only 55 more games.

Forbes Kennedy, age 22, a checking C who played 168 games for DRW before being traded for Andre Pronovost.

Hank Bassen, age 24, a backup goalie.



after the trade, DRW were not above .500 for 5 seasons.


since Hall was gone and Bassen was not good enough to be a starter, DRW needed a goalie.

they traded some cash and 22 year old Johnny Bucyk for Terry Sawchuk.
Actually the Wings acquired Sawchuk on July 10 prior to trading Hall to Detroit on July 23. Still a bad trade. You have to think the Wings might have won another Cup or two in the late 50's early 60's if they had hung on to Hall and Bucyk.



Some terrible one for one trades involving Hall of Famers would include:

Detroit trading Red Kelly to Toronto for Marc Reaume. Kelly helped the Leafs win four Cups. Reaume played 47 games for Detroit.

Toronto trading Leo Boivin to Boston for Joe Klukay. Boivin played 12 years for Boston while Klukay played 74 games for Toronto.

Chicago trading Bert Olmstead to Montreal for Leo Gravelle. Olmstead was a key member of four Stanley Cup teams for Montreal while Gravelle would play just 18 more NHL games.

New York trading Bill Gadsby to Detroit for Les Hunt. Gadsby helped get the Wings to three finals while Hunt never played a game in the NHL.

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Old
01-18-2010, 08:23 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by mobilus View Post
True, but Vernon played goal for the Cup run and Ramage was nothing more than reliable. Ramage was gone within a year and a half to the Leafs, with Gilmour and Wamsley following to Toronto another year after that. Although Wamsley and Ramage were there for the Cup in '89, I don't believe either were the crucial element that put the Flames on top. If Calgary had kept that 1988 core together, they would have had Gilmour, Hull, Fleury, Roberts, Nieuwendyk, MacInnis and Vernon all in their primes at the same time. Peter Zezel centered Hull for his 72 goal season in St. Louis. I would imagine Doug Gilmour could have done just as good with Hull in Calgary. As Edmonton was a power throughout the '80s, Calgary could have been for the '90s.
It is amazing to think how strong Calgary could have been if not for those two trades. But even so I don't think they would have been a powerhouse quite on Edmonton's level as the Oilers were in the 80s.

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01-18-2010, 10:25 PM
  #79
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I think the main thing that would've prevented Calgary from being a powerhouse would be Vernon. Wasnt he atleast partially responsible for some of Calgary's more disappointing play-off exits during that time period?

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01-18-2010, 11:42 PM
  #80
nik jr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoaster View Post
Actually the Wings acquired Sawchuk on July 10 prior to trading Hall to Detroit on July 23. Still a bad trade. You have to think the Wings might have won another Cup or two in the late 50's early 60's if they had hung on to Hall and Bucyk.



Some terrible one for one trades involving Hall of Famers would include:

Detroit trading Red Kelly to Toronto for Marc Reaume. Kelly helped the Leafs win four Cups. Reaume played 47 games for Detroit.

Toronto trading Leo Boivin to Boston for Joe Klukay. Boivin played 12 years for Boston while Klukay played 74 games for Toronto.

Chicago trading Bert Olmstead to Montreal for Leo Gravelle. Olmstead was a key member of four Stanley Cup teams for Montreal while Gravelle would play just 18 more NHL games.

New York trading Bill Gadsby to Detroit for Les Hunt. Gadsby helped get the Wings to three finals while Hunt never played a game in the NHL.
thanks for the correction. i wonder why i always thought hall and lindsay were traded first.

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Old
01-19-2010, 01:23 AM
  #81
ted1971
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May 15, 1973: Traded to Philadelphia by Toronto with Toronto's 2nd round choice (Larry Goodenough) in 1973 Amateur Draft for Philadelphia's 1st round choice (Bob Neely) in 1973 Amateur Draft and future considerations (Doug Favell, July 27, 1973), May 15, 1973.

Parent won 2 Cups for the Flyers, while the Leafs received 2 players that didn't do a thing for Them.

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Old
01-19-2010, 03:49 AM
  #82
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It would have been really interesting to see what would have happened if Forsberg would not have been included in that trade. Flyers would have been an interesting team to watch with Lindros and Forsberg.

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01-19-2010, 12:00 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
In retrospect, sure...but this was a potential for potential+now trade...Naslund was doing relatively little for Pittsburgh with a stacked top six...and it was the last year of his contract (he was going to be restricted and therefore paid more, a lot more)...the Pens needed toughness and Stojanov was recently like a 7th overall pick (IIRC)...so they made the swap...

Pretty much no matter what, Naslund wasn't part of the Pens future plans...they hoped Stojanov was a late-blooming power forward...the Canucks even let Naslund sit a bit as an RFA before they finally signed him - not that I read a ton into his value from that...but maybe the Canucks weren't immediately sold on him either (there was once talk amongst Penguins fans that Naslund wasn't even given an qualifying offer, but I found a newspaper article a while ago that debunked that)

I believe Stojanov's career was short circuited by a car accident too...which didn't help matters...

I guess there's mildly-elaborate justifications for a lot of trades, but at the time, this wasn't an awful idea for Pittsburgh...when it's said and done, it's a horrific trade for the Pens, as we all well know...
correct and correct on both players.

If I recall correctly, Naslund was buried on the third line, wasn't getting a whole lot of minutes, and the Pens were looking to upgrade in the toughness department.

Stojanov was indeed injured in a car accident in late December 1996. Here's a newspaper clip saying that he'd be out 10 days, but I'm almost certain he didn't play much the rest of the season.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5148,8887982
Lower right corner, a few sentences deep under the "Notes" header.

Going through the google archives, it even appears that 10 months later that Stojanov was still having injury problems related to the accident.

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Old
01-19-2010, 02:53 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco543 View Post
I think the main thing that would've prevented Calgary from being a powerhouse would be Vernon. Wasnt he atleast partially responsible for some of Calgary's more disappointing play-off exits during that time period?
I don't think that was on him. The Flames were just usually overshadowed by an even greater team around that time. If not for the Oilers, the Flames may have had three Cups in the 80s. Vernon was a five-time All-star, took the Flames to the finals in '86 with a little help from Steve Smith, and won a Conn Smythe with Detroit in the 90s. Vernon was a bit inconsistent but also clutch, like a rich man's Marc-Andre Fleury. Being a Calgary native, he was especially pumped for the Battes of Alberta and usually delievered solid performances. Also, the Flames used to actually be a run-and-gun team in the 80s with the exception of predominantly stay-at-home defenders like Rob Ramage. It's not like the Flames had anything like a New Jersey-esque defensive system in place to boost Vernon's stats. I would rate Kiprusoff as slightly better, but the latter is the foundation of the Flames today. Vernon wasn't needed to be with the likes of Joe Nieuwendyk, Joe Mullen, Joel Otto, Hakan Loob, Gary Suter, Al MacInnis, Doug Gilmour, and Lanny MacDonald. It was a solid core all-around at that time with no serious weak spots in my opinion.

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Old
01-19-2010, 03:09 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippasus View Post
If not for the Oilers, the Flames may have had three Cups in the 80s. .
If not for Peter Pocklington, the Oilers would likely have won 8 cups.

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01-19-2010, 03:55 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Daryn Duliba View Post
If not for Peter Pocklington, the Oilers would likely have won 8 cups.
Or 9?

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Old
04-20-2013, 12:16 AM
  #87
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It may not be most lopsided trade ever, but the Habs sent Rod Langway, Brian Engblom, Doug Jarvis, and Craig Laughlin to Washington for Ryan Walter and Rick Green.


Last edited by Hawkman: 04-20-2013 at 12:26 AM.
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04-20-2013, 12:19 AM
  #88
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Habs/Avs trade most definitely.

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Old
04-20-2013, 01:51 AM
  #89
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Some terribly lopsided trades:

Larry Murphy from Toronto to Detroit for nothing
Barry Pederson Bruins to Canucks for Cam Neely, 1987 1st (Glen Wesley)

Draft picks are always risky but I find these of not in the lopsided screw up department.

Calgary trades their 1st, 2nd and 2nd to the Devils for a 1st and a 2nd in the 90s draft. Flames picked Kidd and Viitakoski. Devils picked Brodeur...

Blues trades drafts picks that became Sandis Ozolinsh and Nazarov to protect Mike Craig from the expansin draft. Though karma bit sharks in the ass a couple of drafts later when they traded away the pick that became Pronger (so they could select Viktor Kozlov).

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Old
04-20-2013, 01:52 AM
  #90
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Every time a thread like this comes up, I like to think what if...

Detroit and Oates had been able to agree on a contract in 1989?

Oates doesn't get traded. Neither do Murphy or Graves in the infamous Carson deal; Klima is probably still sent packing.

That's already much better than where the team was. They don't miss the playoffs that year if they have Oates, Graves, and Murphy instead of Carson.

And the next season saw Fedorov come in, and the next few seasons saw aslew of wingers coming in such as Ysebaert, Kevin Miller (eventually traded for Ciccarelli), Sheppard (eventually traded for Larionov), Slava Kozlov, Drake (sadly, was a throw-in to get rid of Tim Cheveldae), and more. Keith Primeau saw time on the wing. Imagine if the Wings had Oates as the 2C, with Fedorov on Yzerman's wing, when they first picked up Sheppard? Holy smokes.

Instead Oates and Paul MacLean were dumped off to St. Louis for a near-retirement Bernie Federko (who was barely as good at his best as Oates was at the time) and a washed-up grinder in Tony McKegney. Federko+McKegney wasn't worth MacLean alone, let alone Oates+MacLean. I'd have liked to see more of an effort to get a younger center as the centerpiece, or alternatively something like the Shanahan deal where a high-end winger is the return. Rick Tocchet or Cam Neely is more along the lines of a fair return for performance at the time. Philadelphia didn't have a real #1C, and likely would have been willing to part with Tocchet to put Oates with Tim Kerr (then only 29). Boston might have been less willing, but still probably gives up Neely to get Oates+MacLean (with Linseman then slotting into his proper #2C role). Alternatively, Oates and MacLean go for Kerr and Mark Howe, who was having injury troubles (and would sign with Detroit at the end of his existing contract). This leaves a hole at 2C on the 89-90 Wings, so the Carson trade potentially still happens. But with Kerr on RW, does Murphy play his natural center position? Perhaps he does well enough that Detroit feels it's not necessary. And Kerr/Tocchet/Neely were certainly enough of an upgrade over Dave Barr to say that Yzerman (127) passes Mark Messier (129) in the scoring race with any of them on his line, and potentially challenges Gretzky (142) for the Art Ross. And with Oates not on the Blues (mostly PP that season, some ES) it's unlikely Hull beats Yzerman's 62 goals.

Alternatively, if Oates had stayed, it's entirely possible Yzerman is traded to acquire a top-pair defenseman, strong 2C/weak 1C, and good winger (at minimum all of those things). Perhaps a deal of Yzerman+MacLean for Mullen+Gilmour+Suter or perhaps Neely+Linseman/Janney+Wesley? Alternate reality revolving around better deals than Oates/Federko is fun.

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Old
04-20-2013, 01:38 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le CH View Post
To Philadelphia Flyers: Eric Lindros

To Quebec Nordiques: Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, Mike Ricci, Kerry Huffman, Steve Duchesne, a 1st round selection (Jocelyn Thibault) in 1993, a 1st round selection (later traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs, later traded to the Washington Capitals - Nolan Baumgartner) and $15,000,000 cash.
The Avs won no doubt but Lindros was hardly a bust. In fact even with the injuries he was a dominant force when he played in those 1st 7 seasons.

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04-21-2013, 12:22 AM
  #92
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The Joe Thornton trade is up there. It's a quirky one because San Jose hasn't won a cup since and Boston has, but the Bruins win sure wasn't because of any contributions made by any player they received in this deal.


Bruins GP G A P +/- PIM
Wayne Primeau 101 13 16 29 -25 115
Brad Stuart 103 17 31 48 -28 64
Marco Sturm 302 106 87 193 +24 156

Sharks GP G A P +/- PIM
Joe Thornton 589 162 501 663 +132 370

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Old
04-21-2013, 09:25 PM
  #93
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Yashin for Chara and the pick used to choose Spezza ranks way up there, as do most Mike Milbury deals from that era......

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Old
04-21-2013, 09:57 PM
  #94
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Russ Courtnall for John Kordic.

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Old
04-21-2013, 10:12 PM
  #95
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Detroit in 75 trading Marcel Dionne & Bart Crashley to LA for Maloney,
Harper and a 2nd round pick. Not the "most lopsided ever", just dumb.

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Old
04-23-2013, 11:16 PM
  #96
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Penguins Gets:
Samuelsson, Ron Francis and Grant Jennings

Hartford Gets:
John Cullen, Jeff Parker and Zarley Zalapski

Ronny Francis!
Cullen was a very, VERY good player who was cursed by injury and cancer. I've always thought it very unfair the way people have used his name as a punchline.

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Old
04-23-2013, 11:24 PM
  #97
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Is it true that the Norris brother on Detroit used to basically give away players he didn't like to his brother on Chicago or just send players to help out Chicago? I was looking at that Hall + Lindsay trade to Chicago....wow, not like either of them was even close to being psat his prime either.

I mean, they traded two arguably top 50 or 60 players of all time for four guys none of which would even be top 500. I don't think a single one of the four players Detroit got back can even be considered as a notable NHLer let alone a great one.

WIth the Lindros trade....at least Philadelphia got back a solid star player in Lindros even if they gave up too much.

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