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2013 NHL Draft Part 3 (Flyers own the 11th overall pick)

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04-24-2013, 10:22 AM
  #51
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BPA is who we take no matter what. Doesn't matter what position they play.

How could you get tire of the Flyers drafting and developing all star centers over the past 10 years like they have? I never worry about a center/forward we take in the draft. Now when we pick a defenseman, I worry. We just can't develop them.

If we do take another center, we have some trading chips as well. Use a position of strength for a position of weakness. Couts and Read maybe could be packaged(I don't want that package used for Yandle though) for a defender. A top notch defender at that. Laughton will probably play the 4th line center next year unless we trade Couts, then he will be our 3rd line center I believe.

You never know what type of players become available in the off-season. Some teams trying to shake it up or up against their internal budget.

Now I am not sure who goes where, but if Nurse is available, the Flyers will take him. They have been on record praising him. And yes I know, they won't publicly trash the player, but why comment on him at all if you aren't saying something positive? They really like him and for the right reason, he is going to be a stud.

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04-24-2013, 10:23 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
It certainly has some sex appeal to have our Finnish God of defense mentor Risto should they select him-- with Chris Pronger around to show him how to use that size.
Someone tell Kimmo's wife to start getting a room ready for Risto.

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04-24-2013, 10:27 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
BPA is who we take no matter what. Doesn't matter what position they play.

How could you get tire of the Flyers drafting and developing all star centers over the past 10 years like they have? I never worry about a center/forward we take in the draft. Now when we pick a defenseman, I worry. We just can't develop them.

If we do take another center, we have some trading chips as well. Use a position of strength for a position of weakness. Couts and Read maybe could be packaged(I don't want that package used for Yandle though) for a defender. A top notch defender at that. Laughton will probably play the 4th line center next year unless we trade Couts, then he will be our 3rd line center I believe.

You never know what type of players become available in the off-season. Some teams trying to shake it up or up against their internal budget.

Now I am not sure who goes where, but if Nurse is available, the Flyers will take him. They have been on record praising him. And yes I know, they won't publicly trash the player, but why comment on him at all if you aren't saying something positive? They really like him and for the right reason, he is going to be a stud.
Nurse is the 2nd best defenseman in this draft and the 4th best player in this draft.

If he falls to us, he's obviously BPA.

That said, loads of teams need forwards. Monahan, Shinkaruk, Nichushkin, Barkov, and Linholm could all go ahead of him on top of Jones, MacKinnon, and Drouin.

Best case scenario, he could fall as far as 9. He's DEFINITELY gone by 9 though; most likely 4 or 5.

It'll probably come down to Ristolainen vs. a forward. I don't know what our camp will do. My heart says defense, my brain says Monahan.

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Old
04-24-2013, 10:30 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
BPA is who we take no matter what. Doesn't matter what position they play.

How could you get tire of the Flyers drafting and developing all star centers over the past 10 years like they have? I never worry about a center/forward we take in the draft. Now when we pick a defenseman, I worry. We just can't develop them.

If we do take another center, we have some trading chips as well. Use a position of strength for a position of weakness. Couts and Read maybe could be packaged(I don't want that package used for Yandle though) for a defender. A top notch defender at that. Laughton will probably play the 4th line center next year unless we trade Couts, then he will be our 3rd line center I believe.

You never know what type of players become available in the off-season. Some teams trying to shake it up or up against their internal budget.

Now I am not sure who goes where, but if Nurse is available, the Flyers will take him. They have been on record praising him. And yes I know, they won't publicly trash the player, but why comment on him at all if you aren't saying something positive? They really like him and for the right reason, he is going to be a stud.
What "top notch defender" do you think can be had for Couturier + Read--particularly if you discount Yandle? I just don't see it.

Beyond value, I think it is a mistake. Read and Couturier are basically our two best defensive forwards (you could argue Giroux is in there as well, but he's been overused this year precisely for that reason; moving Couturier and Read would put even more of the PK / defensive-zone burden on him). Trading them for a PMD (which is what we'd obviously need) is going to have a significant impact on our team defense.

EDIT: I've advocated exploring a forward-for-defenseman swap, and I'm not completely opposed to the notion, depending on the pieces--but I don't think we can ship Couturier AND Read out together.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 04-24-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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Old
04-24-2013, 10:32 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
What "top notch defender" do you think can be had for Couturier + Read--particularly if you discount Yandle. I just don't see it.

Beyond value, I think it is a mistake. Read and Couturier are basically our two best defensive forwards (you could argue Giroux is in there as well, but he's been overused this year precisely for that reason; moving Couturier and Read would put even more of the PK / defensive-zone burden on him). Trading them for a PMD (which is what we'd obviously need) is going to have a significant impact on our team defense.
Yeah, I don't think Couturier's value is at its highest. No reason to trade him or Laughton at this point.

I'm in the "don't trade a forward for defense" camp right now; particularly because we don't know if Mason will perform well with our healthy defensive lineup. Methinks however that Mason, given his effort level so far, that he's going to perform extremely well in front of our excessively underrated defense.

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04-24-2013, 10:35 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
What "top notch defender" do you think can be had for Couturier + Read--particularly if you discount Yandle. I just don't see it.

Beyond value, I think it is a mistake. Read and Couturier are basically our two best defensive forwards (you could argue Giroux is in there as well, but he's been overused this year precisely for that reason; moving Couturier and Read would put even more of the PK / defensive-zone burden on him). Trading them for a PMD (which is what we'd obviously need) is going to have a significant impact on our team defense.
In my post I said I didn't know, but their are always players available in the summer that nobody would think would be. I am not saying I know what players will be available, but like I said in my previous post, internal budget, shake up, change of scenery, anything can happen.

I am not saying Piety or Weber either. People know I love those two guys(who doesnt?) but we might be able to acquire someone people really don't think is available, or no rumors have surfaced about.

EDIT: Also in my previous post I say I would only think about trading Couts if we get another top notch center. Read was thrown in there as a package deal to get a stud if one became available.

Quote:
"It's the evaluation process you go through this time of year whether you're in the playoff race or not, it's a daily thing," Holmgren said. "Once the season ends, you have conversations with everybody. Even when you're in the playoffs, you're talking to other teams about what they might be looking to do in the summertime. You're busy with your amateur guys preparing your draft list. It doesn't stop."
There is a pay wall for this article, so I will only post this quote from Homer.


Last edited by Prongo: 04-24-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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Old
04-24-2013, 10:37 AM
  #57
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The further we drop down, the less likely it becomes that we draft a forward, IMO. It would be one thing if Lindholm or Monahan was still on the board--a la 2011--but if we go 1-1-0 in these last two, I suspect we'll end up picking 10th. BPA should be a defenseman, I'd think.
I hope you are right. However, I have initially been angry at most of the past drafts, thinking the Flyers passed over better players or missed out on better players, and often, I am terribly wrong. I wanted Bob Sanguenetti (drafted one slot before) over Giroux - I didn't even know who he was. I wanted Turris over JVR. So, if they draft a forward, I'll be annoyed, but it would probably end up just fine in the long run - although we REALLY need defensemen.

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04-24-2013, 10:39 AM
  #58
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Apparently in Russian newspaper Nichuskin said he wants to play for the flyers, and also said he likes the rangers, but those are his two choices. Imagine we draft him, he'd be a steal. I've seen multiple scouts on twitter call him "The Next Malkin". While that is highly unlikely and obvious hyperbole, he will be a great player. He probably won't be over until 2015 though.

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04-24-2013, 10:43 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Apparently in Russian newspaper Nichuskin said he wants to play for the flyers, and also said he likes the rangers, but those are his two choices. Imagine we draft him, he'd be a steal. I've seen multiple scouts on twitter call him "The Next Malkin". While that is highly unlikely and obvious hyperbole, he will be a great player. He probably won't be over until 2015 though.
If he would come over and play immediately, we would draft him.

Otherwise we would not...

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04-24-2013, 10:47 AM
  #60
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If he would come over and play immediately, we would draft him.

Otherwise we would not...
I agree but Id still rather draft Nurse.

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04-24-2013, 10:49 AM
  #61
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I agree but Id still rather draft Nurse.
I think our board is...

1. Jones
2. Drouin
3. MacKinnon
4. Nurse
5. Monahan
6. Shinkaruk
7-15. Anyone could go...

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04-24-2013, 10:51 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I think our board is...

1. Jones
2. Drouin
3. MacKinnon
4. Nurse
5. Monahan
6. Shinkaruk
7-15. Anyone could go...
What makes you think Shinkaruk is on there over the 2nd-tier defenders, or even a strong two-way player like Lindholm.

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04-24-2013, 10:52 AM
  #63
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Nurse is going to be gone long before the Flyers pick.

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Old
04-24-2013, 10:53 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I think our board is...

1. Jones
2. Drouin
3. MacKinnon
4. Nurse
5. Monahan
6. Shinkaruk
7-15. Anyone could go...
I wish you were wrong but you're probably right about the forwards being that high. I also think Ristolainen is at number 5 before Monahan.

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04-24-2013, 10:55 AM
  #65
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What makes you think Shinkaruk is on there over the 2nd-tier defenders, or even a strong two-way player like Lindholm.
I don't know. I have this odd feeling that they may feel like Read has the potential to be gone via trade or lost to UFA because of overpricing. Briere obviously has one foot out the door already.

A small dynamic on the forward on the wing is as potentially important as the big guy on the other side.

Lindholm is potentially higher than him, but the Flyers love their CHL forwards.

I would also put Risto above him if he was a CHL player.

Basically, I put a lot of credence in the fact that the Flyers LOVE Canadian trained skaters.

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04-24-2013, 10:56 AM
  #66
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I wish you were wrong but you're probably right about the forwards being that high. I also think Ristolainen is at number 5 before Monahan.
Yeah, it's not perfect, but it's a rough guess.

I think Ristolainen is our #3 defenseman on our board, but like I said, when you start mentioning players overseas, you start seeing the Flyers edge off slightly. It's what they do.

They may make an exception for a slick Finnish guy like Risto though to learn from Timonen (assuming Risto will come over immediately).

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04-24-2013, 11:05 AM
  #67
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Apparently in Russian newspaper Nichuskin said he wants to play for the flyers, and also said he likes the rangers, but those are his two choices. Imagine we draft him, he'd be a steal. I've seen multiple scouts on twitter call him "The Next Malkin". While that is highly unlikely and obvious hyperbole, he will be a great player. He probably won't be over until 2015 though.
He's overrated. He skates and he shoots but his hockey IQ is low.

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04-24-2013, 11:07 AM
  #68
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He's overrated. He skates and he shoots but his hockey IQ is low.
The odds of us taking a Russian in the 1st round of any draft are slim to none. No need to worry.

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04-24-2013, 11:20 AM
  #69
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The odds of us taking a Russian in the 1st round of any draft are slim to none. No need to worry.
Plus the fact he wont be available by the time we pick. I think were going to draft Ristolainen or Shinkaruk. Hopefully Ristolainen, hes gonna be a good one.

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04-24-2013, 11:34 AM
  #70
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My money is on Monahan, the Flyers love their bigger two way centers and he's a guy I can see dropping down a few spots for them to pick up.

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04-24-2013, 11:36 AM
  #71
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My money is on Monahan, the Flyers love their bigger two way centers and he's a guy I can see dropping down a few spots for them to pick up.
I think Edmonton will take him.

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04-24-2013, 11:47 AM
  #72
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I think Edmonton will take him.
They desperately need him...but...

1. Florida - MacKinnon
2. Colorado - Jones
3. Tampa Bay - Drouin
4. Nashville - Monahan/Nichushkin/Barkov
5. Carolina - Nurse
6. Edmonton - Monahan/Nichushkin/Barkov
7. Calgary - Monahan/Nichushkin/Barkov
8. Buffalo - Lindholm/Shinkaruk/Ristolainen
9. Philadelphia - ???

That's the breakdown we're likely looking at.

Unless we win the lottery, all of Colorado, Carolina, and Edmonton will be picking before us. Even if Edmonton takes Monahan somehow, there is zero chance we end up with Nurse.

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04-24-2013, 11:51 AM
  #73
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I agree, I'm already fully on the Ristolainen bandwagon.

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04-24-2013, 11:54 AM
  #74
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BPA is who we take no matter what. Doesn't matter what position they play.
I agree, but with some clauses. Rarely is it that straightforward. For instance, if the Flyers truly aren't great at drafting defensemen, then perhaps they only select a BPA d-man if the pedigree is high enough that they "can't miss." The Flyers are great with forwards, but you need to draft the BPA (if the choice were between two BPAs -- a dead tie being the premise here), then you would select the one that best fits in with the organizational philosophy or is a legit need. Is he silky or more gritty? Flyers would lean towards gritty, etc. Or does G really need a silky winger? Then you would lean towards him.

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04-24-2013, 11:56 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
They desperately need him...but...

1. Florida - MacKinnon
2. Colorado - Jones
3. Tampa Bay - Drouin
4. Nashville - Monahan/Nichushkin/Barkov
5. Carolina - Nurse
6. Edmonton - Monahan/Nichushkin/Barkov
7. Calgary - Monahan/Nichushkin/Barkov
8. Buffalo - Lindholm/Shinkaruk/Ristolainen
9. Philadelphia - ???

That's the breakdown we're likely looking at.

Unless we win the lottery, all of Colorado, Carolina, and Edmonton will be picking before us. Even if Edmonton takes Monahan somehow, there is zero chance we end up with Nurse.
Eh, I don't think that's necessarily true.

1. Florida - MacKinnon
2. Colorado - Jones
3. Tampa Bay - Drouin
4. Nashville - Monahan/Barkov [no chance they take Nichushkin, IMO]
5. Carolina - Nichushkin [they did extend Semin, after all)
6. Edmonton - Monahan/Barkov/Lindholm
7. Calgary - Monahan/Lindholm
8. Philadelphia - Nurse

I agree it gets trickier if we are picking 9th instead of 8th.

Really, the one two teams in the top seven that I can see realistically picking Nichushkin are Tampa Bay (if they end up picking 4-7) and Carolina.

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