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04-24-2013, 08:30 AM
  #651
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Originally Posted by Rangers2319 View Post
imo he should be sent back to hfd if torts is going to keep him on the 4th line
It's a more puzzling issue that there isn't a player in Hartford's bottom six that management feels can take a spell on the 4th line in the NHL.

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04-24-2013, 08:33 AM
  #652
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It's a more puzzling issue that there isn't a player in Hartford's bottom six that management feels can take a spell on the 4th line in the NHL.
Its absurd. I dont expect the 4th line to score for any team, but I do expect them to provide energy. They're all looking dead out there for various reasons, and now they're just not playing.

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04-24-2013, 08:36 AM
  #653
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Too bad Dorsett won't be back this week. Sounds like he could provide the spark we need.

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04-24-2013, 08:38 AM
  #654
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I don't understand why someone like Bourque hasn't been tried as a 4th line spark plug. Good defensively. Tons of speed.

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04-24-2013, 08:44 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I don't understand why someone like Bourque hasn't been tried as a 4th line spark plug. Good defensively. Tons of speed.
I think management's making it clear that they want Kreider in the lineup. I feel like it's been that way all year, especially before the 1st recall when Torts said he wanted him to continue his streak in Hartford then boom, called up next day.

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04-24-2013, 09:00 AM
  #656
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3 mins for CK last night..

Which tea did he piss in to Get this treatment ?

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04-24-2013, 09:06 AM
  #657
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3 mins for CK last night..

Which tea did he piss in to Get this treatment ?
Its been about 10 months in the making.

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04-24-2013, 09:08 AM
  #658
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For those who watch closer than I do, what has been the difference for Kreider during last year's playoffs and this year's regular season? Production isn't there, but why?

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04-24-2013, 09:10 AM
  #659
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Its been about 10 months in the making.
At this point I don't know why anyone's surprised anymore

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04-24-2013, 09:14 AM
  #660
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For those who watch closer than I do, what has been the difference for Kreider during last year's playoffs and this year's regular season? Production isn't there, but why?
Confidence. He seems to be overthinking things instead of just letting himself play the game. Because of that, he is normally a half-second late.

Although lately he has improved. Hard to see with only 3 minutes of playing time.

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04-24-2013, 09:19 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
For those who watch closer than I do, what has been the difference for Kreider during last year's playoffs and this year's regular season? Production isn't there, but why?
I think part of it is that bringing him up in last year's playoffs was a whirlwind for him - he didnt have time to think and just went out and played. His confidence seems a bit shot this season. Im not a psychologist, but it seems like hes falling into a malaise because hes not playing with better players. Its up to him to snap out of it.

Torts isnt looking to screw him. I think hes looking for Kreider to take the bull by the horns and say "Ya know what, if Im going to play 3,5,7 minutes, Im going to play like hell and its going to be the best 5 mins I can give"

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04-24-2013, 09:22 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Confidence. He seems to be overthinking things instead of just letting himself play the game.
I agree with this. The other biggest difference between now and then is there are some expectations now.

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04-24-2013, 10:49 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think part of it is that bringing him up in last year's playoffs was a whirlwind for him - he didnt have time to think and just went out and played. His confidence seems a bit shot this season. Im not a psychologist, but it seems like hes falling into a malaise because hes not playing with better players. Its up to him to snap out of it.

Torts isnt looking to screw him. I think hes looking for Kreider to take the bull by the horns and say "Ya know what, if Im going to play 3,5,7 minutes, Im going to play like hell and its going to be the best 5 mins I can give"
Agree with this. The confidence is low right now. Seems to me like he second guesses himself a lot. On the other hand, it also looks very much like he is playing it safe out there, doesn't want to make a mistake. Doesn't want to take too long a shift. He isn't anticipating breakouts well or he just wants to make sure the defensive side of the game is taken care of and hopefully his line will be able to get some if at all offensive zone time.

I agree with the mentality to make the best of the little ice time he is getting but man 3 minutes is tough to swallow and do much with.

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04-24-2013, 11:01 AM
  #664
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Agree with this. The confidence is low right now. Seems to me like he second guesses himself a lot. On the other hand, it also looks very much like he is playing it safe out there, doesn't want to make a mistake. Doesn't want to take too long a shift. He isn't anticipating breakouts well or he just wants to make sure the defensive side of the game is taken care of and hopefully his line will be able to get some if at all offensive zone time.

I agree with the mentality to make the best of the little ice time he is getting but man 3 minutes is tough to swallow and do much with.
But weren't you trying to push the narrative earlier that Torts is trying to screw Kreider by limiting his time with more talented linemates?

I just dont get that thinking. The blueprint is there THIS SEASON with what happened to JT Miller. That kid made plenty of mistakes, but continued to get icetime because he played balls to the wall every shift. Personally, I think the narrative that Tortorella staples kids to the bench after one mistake is a false one.

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04-24-2013, 11:34 AM
  #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crease View Post
For those who watch closer than I do, what has been the difference for Kreider during last year's playoffs and this year's regular season? Production isn't there, but why?
Opportunity. Its hard to produce offensively when you're playing with Asham,Powe,Boyle and Pyatt. Last night in the 2nd period,Powe has the puck in the neutral zone. Kreider is open on the left side. Powe totally ignores Kreider. Powe carries the puck into the offensive zone and dumps the puck.

Both of Kreider's goals this season came off passes by Richards. Those were the only two times they were on the ice together. Kreider and Miller played together. They added some speed and energy. Torts doesn't trust them.

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04-24-2013, 11:37 AM
  #666
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When Boyle got hurt,the Rangers brass and Torts discussed who to bring up. Rangers management wanted Kreider up. Torts admitted he was not crazy about the idea because he doesn't believe Kreider is ready. Rangers management has a different view.

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04-24-2013, 11:41 AM
  #667
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Opportunity. Its hard to produce offensively when you're playing with Asham,Powe,Boyle and Pyatt. Last night in the 2nd period,Powe has the puck in the neutral zone. Kreider is open on the left side. Powe totally ignores Kreider. Powe carries the puck into the offensive zone and dumps the puck.

Both of Kreider's goals this season came off passes by Richards. Those were the only two times they were on the ice together. Kreider and Miller played together. They added some speed and energy. Torts doesn't trust them.
Torts doesn't trust him... bottom line. he will not tolerate Krieder brining offense at the expense of defensive gaffes, so he plays him with linemates that have a totally different job description.

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04-24-2013, 11:48 AM
  #668
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Let me ask this question...if Torts trusted Miller who had cowboyitis and was a turnover machine, but Kreider he doesn't trust, what's the problem here? Kreider doesn't turn the puck over nearly as much as Miller, they both have 2 goals, and one is doing too much, while the other is playing too safe. Who do you keep? Seems to me like Tortorella only kept J.T around because of his initials.

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04-24-2013, 12:05 PM
  #669
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Chris is always going to be one of those players who needs a guy on his line to get him the puck in open ice. He's just not the type who is going to take the puck out of his own end and beat defenders one on one like Nash. The best comparison I've found so far is James Neal. Neal is a big guy with a great shot and excellent release, but he doesn't really generate offense on his own. He's excellent with Malkin, but he's pretty average without him.

Some of the best goal scorers in the game are lousy one-on-one players and have problems creating their own chances on a regular basis. What makes them special is that when they get open space or a good opportunity to score, they bury their chances. Kreider can do that.

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04-24-2013, 12:08 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
But weren't you trying to push the narrative earlier that Torts is trying to screw Kreider by limiting his time with more talented linemates?

I just dont get that thinking. The blueprint is there THIS SEASON with what happened to JT Miller. That kid made plenty of mistakes, but continued to get icetime because he played balls to the wall every shift. Personally, I think the narrative that Tortorella staples kids to the bench after one mistake is a false one.
I never said Torts is trying to screw Kreider. Honestly I don't even know what Torts is thinking anymore. Like why is Nash out their on any PK when he is one of our worst defensive players by far. I don't thing Torts did it intentionally, but I think a part of Kreider's tentative game play right now is because he doesn't want to make a mistake. He is walking on egg shells out there. He didn't even do anything wrong last night and he got just 3 minutes of ice time. Not every player is going to play balls to the wall like Callahan does. By that thinking and expectation certain players get ice time over others? It was clear as day Miller needed to go back down to CT but stayed longer than he should have continually making mistakes. Why is that? Because he plays balls to the wall? That's no justification. It is obviously late in the season now, but Torts should have sat through the growing pains of Kreider and coached the kid more. Not putting him on buses back and forth between CT and NYC. Did it really make a difference in where this team is going to finish in the standings this year by sending Kreider down because it was shortened season and we didn;t have time to experiment? I don't think so.

RB reiterates what I had discussed yesterday below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Opportunity. Its hard to produce offensively when you're playing with Asham,Powe,Boyle and Pyatt. Last night in the 2nd period,Powe has the puck in the neutral zone. Kreider is open on the left side. Powe totally ignores Kreider. Powe carries the puck into the offensive zone and dumps the puck.

Both of Kreider's goals this season came off passes by Richards. Those were the only two times they were on the ice together. Kreider and Miller played together. They added some speed and energy. Torts doesn't trust them.
Agree completely, 100%. Again not saying Torts has this vendetta against Kreider, but the kid has had his best success playing with far better players than Powe, Asham, Boyle, and Pyatt. All of his goals from the playoffs and this year have come with better players on the ice with him.

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04-24-2013, 12:11 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Chris is always going to be one of those players who needs a guy on his line to get him the puck in open ice. He's just not the type who is going to take the puck out of his own end and beat defenders one on one like Nash. The best comparison I've found so far is James Neal. Neal is a big guy with a great shot and excellent release, but he doesn't really generate offense on his own. He's excellent with Malkin, but he's pretty average without him.

Some of the best goal scorers in the game are lousy one-on-one players and have problems creating their own chances on a regular basis. What makes them special is that when they get open space or a good opportunity to score, they bury their chances. Kreider can do that.


Hands down one of, if not, the best comparison on this board this year. Because of the expectations alone of Kreider, I think some here don't realize he is not a complete offensive player in that he can't carry a puck up the ice and constantly do it all himself like Nash can....at times. He needs a guy who can deter attention away from him, who can get him the puck in open space. A Brad Richards. I know Pyatt has two goals in the last two games, but his game is still pretty damn slow. I think you'd get a lot more out of Kreider playing with Richards. But that won't happen.

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04-24-2013, 12:22 PM
  #672
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We don't have the type of player on this team that Kreider needs to flourish. He needs a Stars-era Brad Richards or playmaking center ala Riberio.

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04-24-2013, 12:35 PM
  #673
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We don't have the type of player on this team that Kreider needs to flourish. He needs a Stars-era Brad Richards or playmaking center ala Riberio.
Coincidentally enough, who was his center when he scored his two goals this season? None other than THE Bradley "Beaver" Richards

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04-24-2013, 12:43 PM
  #674
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I never said Torts is trying to screw Kreider. Honestly I don't even know what Torts is thinking anymore. Like why is Nash out their on any PK when he is one of our worst defensive players by far. I don't thing Torts did it intentionally, but I think a part of Kreider's tentative game play right now is because he doesn't want to make a mistake. He is walking on egg shells out there. He didn't even do anything wrong last night and he got just 3 minutes of ice time. Not every player is going to play balls to the wall like Callahan does. By that thinking and expectation certain players get ice time over others? It was clear as day Miller needed to go back down to CT but stayed longer than he should have continually making mistakes. Why is that? Because he plays balls to the wall? That's no justification. It is obviously late in the season now, but Torts should have sat through the growing pains of Kreider and coached the kid more. Not putting him on buses back and forth between CT and NYC. Did it really make a difference in where this team is going to finish in the standings this year by sending Kreider down because it was shortened season and we didn;t have time to experiment? I don't think so.
Why not? Whats stopping them? This is a type of demand thats not out of reason.

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04-24-2013, 12:48 PM
  #675
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I would love to see CK get some time with Zuc and Richards, I know it's two LW's but Zuc + CK's speed matches up well, plus outside of maybe Stepan, those are the two best passers on a line with a big bodied quick shot.

I know it won't happen because he won't see light in the top 6 at this point it seems, but I think on a line with both those guys could be a spark plug for him.

All he'd need to do is crash the net every play and they'd find ways to get him the puck.

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