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All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

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Old
04-24-2013, 10:02 AM
  #726
shinchanyo
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Nah, with our schedule and the added depth, going 8-4 after the 6-1 win vs the Pens was easily doable. We are 6-4, I still stand with the prediction, we will win the next two.
Dont take that literally. I also don't have a blind grandma. Just saying eff this team for this predictable hope then fail routine

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04-24-2013, 10:13 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
People complaining about Torts pulling the goalie are just being opportunists, searching for anything to take a cheapshot.

I wish he had done it earlier, to be honest.
Not all of us complaining about him pulling the goalie are looking for cheapshots. I'm generally a Torts supporter and don't think that the game last night was on him. But I didn't like that move -- pretty much for why you said: the timing. Really don't like that he waited until he did. In my mind, you either pull Hank earlier to take full advantage of a 2-man adv, or you hope your PP comes through and wait until it is over to do it. I'll certainly acknowledge that it is a nit picky complaint though.

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04-24-2013, 10:14 AM
  #728
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Right percentage move for who? The Rangers? Their % when pulling the goalie in my lifetime has to be one of the worst in the league. I wish someone could pull that stat out there hole
Yeah, pulling the goalie has a very low success rate league-wide...it's not just the Rangers. The only thing that can be said is pulling the goalie gives you a better percentage chance of scoring than not pulling the goalie.

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04-24-2013, 10:18 AM
  #729
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Yeah, pulling the goalie has a very low success rate league-wide...it's not just the Rangers. The only thing that can be said is pulling the goalie gives you a better percentage chance of scoring than not pulling the goalie.
That's debatable, both 'the league fails as much as the Rangers do with the empty net', and that 'pulling the goalie gives you a better chance to score'.

When you pull the goalie while already up a man its a totally different story.

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04-24-2013, 10:34 AM
  #730
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That's debatable, both 'the league fails as much as the Rangers do with the empty net', and that 'pulling the goalie gives you a better chance to score'.

When you pull the goalie while already up a man its a totally different story.
It's very subjective when there is a power play...you can make the argument either way. For me, at the end of a game where we are having extreme difficulty scoring (and we have Dan Girardi at the point), pulling the goalie was the right move.

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04-24-2013, 10:42 AM
  #731
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This is a straw man argument, and completely ridiculous. We don't have Dan Ellis, we have Henrik Lundqvist. And any team with Dan Ellis as their #1 goaltender would be at the bottom of the league. See: Carolina after Ward went down. Gimme a break with this crap.

And RGY - the whole point of them citing the GAA between the two seasons (apparently lost on you) is that you were implying the defensive system is awful and specifically that it is worse this year because we don't have the shot-blocking personnel. Yet, the facts don't match up with these statements. You can want them to be so as much as you want - but the fact of the matter is that the Rangers have one of the best defenses in the league by the numbers in both seasons and this year's GAA is not significantly different than last year's. So how are those non-shot blocking personnel suddenly making the defensive system ineffective if there is no actual difference? Lundqvist is absolutely a part of those numbers; but the defense in front of him certainly doesn't hurt.
I understand the stats are similar and that is the point they are trying to make. My point is it is foolish to think this year's GAA with this team is comparable to last year's GAA. It is two different teams. They are playing in a 48 game shortened season. The GAA is great and all but one bounce here, one bounce there; one less heroic save by Lundqvist and this team could be in 10th place after finishing 1st last season. And the point being made by me is the team has seemingly spent much more time in their own end this year than last year. Yes I am saying seemingly so if someone has those stats somewhere provide them. I can handle criticism. From what I have witnessed all year the defensive units are nowhere near as cohesive as they were last season. They don't block shots as a unit anymore. Only some do. They are constantly out of position and chasing pucks. There have been countless times where Nash is in the center of the ice and a centerman or defenseman is sliding out to the point man he is supposed to be covering. And he isn't the only one. Too much running around. When you spend too much time in your own end you can't transition to offense efficiently. You can't get momentum going. You saw it last night late in the 3rd period. Florida kept pinning them and dumping deep. The Rangers couldn't get puck possession for about 1-2 minutes with under 5 minutes to go. That is a lot of time lost during desperation mode.

The defensive 6 in front of Lundqvist are great, but they aren't the problem. The problem lies with in the collapsing strategy that involves the forwards, not the defensemen. Especially the wingers. They allow too much room for the defensemen to keep the puck circulating in their own end. Go back to the WPG game that they lost in WPG. They were allowing Bogosian and Big Buff freelance along the blue line no problem. YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH THE SHOTS THEY HAVE. We may end up playing Boston in the first round. Are we really going to give Chara that much room. Probably because that's what we have been doing all year. It's stupid. I know it won't change now, there's two games left. The system should've changed 25 games ago.

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04-24-2013, 10:42 AM
  #732
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Just read on SNY that Sather was there, "shook his head and said "it's never easy"."

http://snyrangersblog.com/coachesgm/...on-last-night/

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04-24-2013, 10:45 AM
  #733
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Just read on SNY that Sather was there, "shook his head and said "it's never easy"."

http://snyrangersblog.com/coachesgm/...on-last-night/
13 years, and hes finding out what its like to be a Ranger fan. Difference is, this is entirely his fault.

At least I can rest my head at night knowing I didnt singlehandedly **** up the Rangers.

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04-24-2013, 10:52 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
13 years, and hes finding out what its like to be a Ranger fan. Difference is, this is entirely his fault.

At least I can rest my head at night knowing I didnt singlehandedly **** up the Rangers.
Yep, how'd he screw up such a sweet thing?


"In the '99-00 regular season, the Rangers finished in fourth place in the Atlantic Division with a 29–38–12–3 record. New York did not qualify for the Stanley Cup playoffs for the third consecutive season."

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04-24-2013, 11:03 AM
  #735
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Yep, how'd he screw up such a sweet thing?


"In the '99-00 regular season, the Rangers finished in fourth place in the Atlantic Division with a 29–38–12–3 record. New York did not qualify for the Stanley Cup playoffs for the third consecutive season."
Right, so I guess it was a 20 year plan from the start?

Im not saying he started the fire. He did proceed to throw several gallons of gasoline on it.

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04-24-2013, 11:03 AM
  #736
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Yep, how'd he screw up such a sweet thing?


"In the '99-00 regular season, the Rangers finished in fourth place in the Atlantic Division with a 29–38–12–3 record. New York did not qualify for the Stanley Cup playoffs for the third consecutive season."
...and it that same year drafted Henrik Lundqvist.

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04-24-2013, 11:29 AM
  #737
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Just read on SNY that Sather was there, "shook his head and said "it's never easy"."

http://snyrangersblog.com/coachesgm/...on-last-night/
Wow he's a quick learner.

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04-24-2013, 11:33 AM
  #738
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Right, so I guess it was a 20 year plan from the start?

Im not saying he started the fire. He did proceed to throw several gallons of gasoline on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
13 years, and hes finding out what its like to be a Ranger fan. Difference is, this is entirely his fault.

At least I can rest my head at night knowing I didnt singlehandedly **** up the Rangers.
sounds to me like you're blaming the whole thing on him....

you're also disregarding that in 04' he started in a different direction. Yes i know you don't aprove of that either, but nevertheless he did...

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04-24-2013, 11:35 AM
  #739
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Wow he's a quick learner.
at some point you have to start to look at your coaching staff and the players.

you can't blame the architect when the forman and his electricians burned the building down...

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04-24-2013, 11:38 AM
  #740
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Beg to differ. Does not work for this Rangers team.
No need for you to explain my 'fan reaction', thanks anyway.
You can beg to differ all you want but it's still wrong. You can dispute opinions not facts. The fact is coaches are significantly too conservative with how often they pull the goalie. It's proven not debatable. You should expect it not to work very often. But the extra chance it gives you helps out long term. Of course in the short term most of the time you won't see a goal. But giving up a goal makes no difference since losing by one is equivalent to losing by two and it improves the chance to score.

In an analogy with the NFL coaches are all significantly too conservative with their fourth down and two point conversion decisions because in general people are just risk averse. They'd rather minimize the chances something bad happens they take a play that has a higher expected value but also is higher variance (give up an empty net goal with say 5 minutes left like when the Devils puleld Brodeur vs. us - no we didn't score. Or punt the ball away on say a 4th and 4 around midfield instead of going). Again - NFL 4th down/two point conversion scenarios are essentially solved and proven so it's really not debatable at all. The main reason there isn't a huge outcry over any given coach not performing their optimally is because legitimately every coach is equally poor in these scenarios so it's not noticed (just the same as with pulling the goalie).

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04-24-2013, 12:25 PM
  #741
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I understand the stats are similar and that is the point they are trying to make. My point is it is foolish to think this year's GAA with this team is comparable to last year's GAA. It is two different teams. They are playing in a 48 game shortened season. The GAA is great and all but one bounce here, one bounce there; one less heroic save by Lundqvist and this team could be in 10th place after finishing 1st last season. And the point being made by me is the team has seemingly spent much more time in their own end this year than last year. Yes I am saying seemingly so if someone has those stats somewhere provide them. I can handle criticism. From what I have witnessed all year the defensive units are nowhere near as cohesive as they were last season. They don't block shots as a unit anymore. Only some do. They are constantly out of position and chasing pucks. There have been countless times where Nash is in the center of the ice and a centerman or defenseman is sliding out to the point man he is supposed to be covering. And he isn't the only one. Too much running around. When you spend too much time in your own end you can't transition to offense efficiently. You can't get momentum going. You saw it last night late in the 3rd period. Florida kept pinning them and dumping deep. The Rangers couldn't get puck possession for about 1-2 minutes with under 5 minutes to go. That is a lot of time lost during desperation mode.

The defensive 6 in front of Lundqvist are great, but they aren't the problem. The problem lies with in the collapsing strategy that involves the forwards, not the defensemen. Especially the wingers. They allow too much room for the defensemen to keep the puck circulating in their own end. Go back to the WPG game that they lost in WPG. They were allowing Bogosian and Big Buff freelance along the blue line no problem. YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH THE SHOTS THEY HAVE. We may end up playing Boston in the first round. Are we really going to give Chara that much room. Probably because that's what we have been doing all year. It's stupid. I know it won't change now, there's two games left. The system should've changed 25 games ago.
Using stats and saying "Finito" is oftentimes not going to tell the whole story and the bolded part explains perfectly why simply pointing to GAA does not tell the story. Our team D has taken a step back this year

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04-24-2013, 12:27 PM
  #742
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at some point you have to start to look at your coaching staff and the players.

you can't blame the architect when the forman and his electricians burned the building down...
Remind me who chose the coaches and the players for the past 13 years.

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04-24-2013, 12:43 PM
  #743
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Please, spare me. It should've been 3 goals (not counting the empty net), possibly more. Lundqvist bailed them out, just as he has bailed them out time and time and time again. It is a constant defense of Tortorella here with you two, especially Kel. He can do no wrong. Pull up the stats all you want, if you put a Dan Ellis in net those numbers are significantly higher. Watch the damn game please. The Rangers get pinned in their own end so often. The majority of times it is because their wingers are way too loose on the point men. The puck constantly gets cycled around the end boards and they constantly are chasing it. How many times has Nash gone down to block a shot this year? How about Powe, other than tonight where he finally went down and sacrificed the body. Or Pyatt? These guys are not Fedotenko, Prust, Mitchell, and Dubinsky. New players came in who don't play that shot blocking game and Torts never adjusted to them. The constant pinning in their own end has them struggling to transition to offense and breaking out of the zone.

I did say Torts was not the only one to blame tonight. Nash and Richards are the other culprits. It was Nash's turnover that led to the 1st goal. As usual trying to do too much with the puck and turning it over, rather than using his 4 teammates on the ice. It was Richards dumb penalty when he had Stralman back that led to the PP goal. It was Richards and Nash who did nothing on the PP tonight. They weren't even getting shots.

So I blame both sides of it. But to be that naive and not see what has been going on all year with their defensive strategy is unfortunate. And to bring up the GAA just hides the inadequacies. Henrik is a dominating factor in the GAA, not Torts' system, at least not this year.
Every post in every thread, if I disagree with you I'm an idiot or I'm naive or I didn't watch the game. Can we cool it with that kind of down-talk? It's a hockey game and I'm a person you know nothing about. Make your argument without that kind of crap. Where did I say Torts can do no wrong? I've repeatedly called his decisions in question in the past. All I did here was post the GA/G stats and draw attention to the fact that they're very similar this year. You're not refuting me by putting an argument in my mouth and then breaking it down.

The post I was responding to said the D strategy worked last year and it isn't working this year. I pointed out that the GA/G numbers are extremely similar, as are the league rankings. We can talk about what the team would look like if they had a completely forgettable goalie all day but it's a completely useless exercise because they have Hank. What if any team didn't have their best player? They'd change their strategy.

The offense is the most consistent problem in my opinion. Florida's D is terrible and their goalie is not up to par. Scoring 1 flukey goal until the last minute was the problem. The D works in my opinion. Yeah, they get pinned in their own zone sometimes, so does every team. Yeah, people make dumb turnovers now and then, so does everyone. If you score more than 1 goal a game it doesn't matter as much.

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04-24-2013, 01:04 PM
  #744
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Remind me who chose the coaches and the players for the past 13 years.
Bingo

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04-24-2013, 01:07 PM
  #745
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Remind me who chose the coaches and the players for the past 13 years.
13 now, not 20? Neil Smith.

but I thought the only 2 things you liked about this team were Torts and Boyle?

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04-24-2013, 01:34 PM
  #746
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Every post in every thread, if I disagree with you I'm an idiot or I'm naive or I didn't watch the game. Can we cool it with that kind of down-talk? It's a hockey game and I'm a person you know nothing about. Make your argument without that kind of crap. Where did I say Torts can do no wrong? I've repeatedly called his decisions in question in the past. All I did here was post the GA/G stats and draw attention to the fact that they're very similar this year. You're not refuting me by putting an argument in my mouth and then breaking it down.

The post I was responding to said the D strategy worked last year and it isn't working this year. I pointed out that the GA/G numbers are extremely similar, as are the league rankings. We can talk about what the team would look like if they had a completely forgettable goalie all day but it's a completely useless exercise because they have Hank. What if any team didn't have their best player? They'd change their strategy.

The offense is the most consistent problem in my opinion. Florida's D is terrible and their goalie is not up to par. Scoring 1 flukey goal until the last minute was the problem. The D works in my opinion. Yeah, they get pinned in their own zone sometimes, so does every team. Yeah, people make dumb turnovers now and then, so does everyone. If you score more than 1 goal a game it doesn't matter as much.
I'm pretty sure I didn't call you either in the post you quoted in your response. But I will be more aware of the sensitivities here.

The overall game play is different than last year. If we are going by stats so much then since the GAA are similar, then we should be in 1st place in the East right now, correct? It's not like the offense we had last year was lights out. It struggled just as much as this year. The PP was mind boggling a majority of last year as well. So what's different? I'll tell you, it's the personnel playing in the system that is different. The system Torts implements is strong in the area of defense and a low amount of goals. It has always been weak on the offensive side of things, especially creativity. So yeah I can see why the GAA is going to be tops in the league again, but that doesn't mean it is being achieved the same way it was last year as a 1st place team in the Eastern Conference. Good defense leads to good offense...normally. But a defense that looks lost at times, out of position, running around playing catch up with who they are supposed to be covering; gets tired, gains no momentum when they finally gain the puck, and either dump in and change, or dump in and get beaten to the puck. Null and void. Again not saying last year's offense was much better, but defensively they were much, much more organized as one unit. I'm more nervous when opposing teams have the puck in our zone this year than last year when you just knew we would stop the puck because of the 5 as a unit in front of lundqvist. Now who knows what's gona happen. Kuba is wide open last night with time and space, throws it at the net, deflected and in. It has happened all year, but it won't change now with 2 games left.

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04-24-2013, 01:55 PM
  #747
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I understand the stats are similar and that is the point they are trying to make. My point is it is foolish to think this year's GAA with this team is comparable to last year's GAA. It is two different teams. They are playing in a 48 game shortened season. The GAA is great and all but one bounce here, one bounce there; one less heroic save by Lundqvist and this team could be in 10th place after finishing 1st last season.
And the same could be said of last season. Without Hank there is no way that team finishes first in the Eastern Conference. Why does this matter? We do have Hank. And he has arguably stolen far fewer games this year than he did last year... This just screams straw man argument to me.


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And the point being made by me is the team has seemingly spent much more time in their own end this year than last year. Yes I am saying seemingly so if someone has those stats somewhere provide them. I can handle criticism.
I'm a stat nerd, so here they come -- This isn't quite the same thing as time in each zone, but it does give a sense of where the games are played (info from here if interested):

2011-2012 (stats at 5on5):

Offensive Zone Faceoffs: 29.4 %
Neutral Zone Faceoffs: 38.5 %
Defensive Zone Faceoffs: 32.1 %


2012-2013 (stats at 5on5):

Offensive Zone Faceoffs: 34.3 %
Neutral Zone Faceoffs: 35.8 %
Defensive Zone Faceoffs: 29.9 %

Seems to indicate that this year they are playing significantly more in the offensive zone, and a decent amount less in the defensive zone...

I don't know where to find defensive/offensive zone time stats - if someone does, please share.


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From what I have witnessed all year the defensive units are nowhere near as cohesive as they were last season. They don't block shots as a unit anymore. Only some do.
Not necessarily true. Here are some stats for you. I excluded anyone in either season who played less than 10 games in the aggregate stats (so in 2011-12 this excludes guys like Deveaux, Newb, Bell, Scott; in 2012-13 it excludes Ferriero, Newb, Mash, Thomas, Segal, Haley).


Team wide shot blocking and hitting (I know you weren't talking hitting - but I added it in out of curiosity):

2011-12:

1424 total games played / 1335 shots blocked / 2359 hits

Average shots blocked per player per game: 0.94.
Average hits per player per game: 1.66

2012-13:

804 total games played / 723 shots blocked / 1317 hits

Average shots blocked per player per game: 0.90
Average hits per played per game: 1.64

I'm not seeing a big difference there in terms of team shot blocking...


But I got curious and wanted to see the comparison between the new roster players and the major losses from last year.


2011-12 (Rupp, Dubi, Prust, Feds, Anisimov, Mitchell):

434 GP / 230 blocks / 704 hits

Average shots blocked per player per game: 0.53
Average hits per player per game: 1.62


2012-13 (Halpern, Asham, Nash, Pyatt, Powe):

176 GP / 81 blocks / 268 hits

Average shots blocked: 0.46
Average hits: 1.52

That shows a bit more of a difference, but still not huge.


And if you add in the recent acquisitions + Kreider/Miller, you get:

Average shots blocked: 0.46
Average hits: 1.64

So, more hits per game, slightly less blocks among those specific groups of players. But as a team, not much difference. Here are the player specific stats if you’re interested:


2011-12:
Player GP Blocks Hits Blocks/Game Hits/Game
Brandon Dubinsky 77 36 207 0.47 2.69
Brandon Prust 82 51 144 0.62 1.76
Ruslan Fedotenko 73 57 86 0.78 1.18
Artem Anisimov 79 46 75 0.58 0.95
John Mitchell 63 27 89 0.43 1.41
Mike Rupp 60 13 103 0.22 1.72


2012-13:
Player GP Blocks Hits Blocks/Game Hits/Game
Jeff Halpern 30 13 36 0.43 1.2
Arron Asham 26 4 37 0.15 1.42
Rick Nash 42 23 45 0.55 1.07
Taylor Pyatt 46 25 83 0.54 1.8
Darroll Powe 32 16 67 0.5 2.09
Chris Kreider 21 6 31 0.29 1.48
J.T. Miller 26 12 47 0.46 1.81
Ryane Clowe 11 4 30 0.36 2.73
Derick Brassard 11 5 25 0.45 2.28
John Moore 11 11 18 1.0 1.64



Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
They are constantly out of position and chasing pucks. There have been countless times where Nash is in the center of the ice and a centerman or defenseman is sliding out to the point man he is supposed to be covering. And he isn't the only one. Too much running around. When you spend too much time in your own end you can't transition to offense efficiently. You can't get momentum going. You saw it last night late in the 3rd period. Florida kept pinning them and dumping deep. The Rangers couldn't get puck possession for about 1-2 minutes with under 5 minutes to go. That is a lot of time lost during desperation mode.
This part of your argument doesn't get reflected in stats. That said, I'd agree with it. The new bodies acquired in the offseason to replace our FA losses/Dubi/Anisimov, overall, have been less defensively sound in terms of positioning and the defense corp has been much more prone to dumb mistakes.

The other piece of the puzzle - which also isn't reflected in stats - is that these replacements also haven't been as aggressive and solid on the forecheck as Dubi/Anisimov/Prust/Feds/Mitchell. That said, I think this was addressed somewhat with the Gabby trade and the Clowe acquisition.


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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
The defensive 6 in front of Lundqvist are great, but they aren't the problem. The problem lies with in the collapsing strategy that involves the forwards, not the defensemen. Especially the wingers. They allow too much room for the defensemen to keep the puck circulating in their own end. Go back to the WPG game that they lost in WPG. They were allowing Bogosian and Big Buff freelance along the blue line no problem. YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH THE SHOTS THEY HAVE. We may end up playing Boston in the first round. Are we really going to give Chara that much room. Probably because that's what we have been doing all year. It's stupid. I know it won't change now, there's two games left. The system should've changed 25 games ago.
I don't think the collapse is THE problem and see it as generally fairly effective, and keeps the other team to the outside with perimeter shots. I'll agree that I'm not a fan of how it leaves the points wide open though and would love to see that tweaked; but in the end don't see that as the primary reason the team has struggled.


Last edited by Richter Scale: 04-24-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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04-24-2013, 02:09 PM
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Right percentage move for who? The Rangers? Their % when pulling the goalie in my lifetime has to be one of the worst in the league. I wish someone could pull that stat out there hole
Don't really know how to determine for sure whether a goalie was pulled in a game unless an empty net goal was scored (which makes it hard to get total games played in which the Rangers pulled their goalie, but also games in which they scored after pulling their goalie). Also don't have historic #s and don't have a clue how to go about getting them... but here's what I've got for this season. As far as I can remember, the Rangers haven't scored this season (other than last night) with Hank or Marty pulled, correct?

Games played in which the Rangers likely pulled their goalie (1 or 2 goal losses):

Jan 19
Jan 20
Jan 24
Feb 5
Feb 19
Feb 26
Mar 8
Mar 12
Mar 14
Mar 21
Mar 28

Apr 8
Apr 16
Apr 23


Empty net goals were scored on the Rangers in all of the italicized and red games. In 7 out of a possible 14 games. Just one goal scored all season after pulling the goalie - in last night's game.

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Old
04-24-2013, 03:08 PM
  #749
RGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter Scale View Post
And the same could be said of last season. Without Hank there is no way that team finishes first in the Eastern Conference. Why does this matter? We do have Hank. And he has arguably stolen far fewer games this year than he did last year... This just screams straw man argument to me.




I'm a stat nerd, so here they come -- This isn't quite the same thing as time in each zone, but it does give a sense of where the games are played (info from here if interested):

2011-2012 (stats at 5on5):

Offensive Zone Faceoffs: 29.4 %
Neutral Zone Faceoffs: 38.5 %
Defensive Zone Faceoffs: 32.1 %


2012-2013 (stats at 5on5):

Offensive Zone Faceoffs: 34.3 %
Neutral Zone Faceoffs: 35.8 %
Defensive Zone Faceoffs: 29.9 %

Seems to indicate that this year they are playing significantly more in the offensive zone, and a decent amount less in the defensive zone...

I don't know where to find defensive/offensive zone time stats - if someone does, please share.




Not necessarily true. Here are some stats for you. I excluded anyone in either season who played less than 10 games in the aggregate stats (so in 2011-12 this excludes guys like Deveaux, Newb, Bell, Scott; in 2012-13 it excludes Ferriero, Newb, Mash, Thomas, Segal, Haley).


Team wide shot blocking and hitting (I know you weren't talking hitting - but I added it in out of curiosity):

2011-12:

1424 total games played / 1335 shots blocked / 2359 hits

Average shots blocked per player per game: 0.94.
Average hits per player per game: 1.66

2012-13:

804 total games played / 723 shots blocked / 1317 hits

Average shots blocked per player per game: 0.90
Average hits per played per game: 1.64

I'm not seeing a big difference there in terms of team shot blocking...


But I got curious and wanted to see the comparison between the new roster players and the major losses from last year.


2011-12 (Rupp, Dubi, Prust, Feds, Anisimov, Mitchell):

434 GP / 230 blocks / 704 hits

Average shots blocked per player per game: 0.53
Average hits per player per game: 1.62


2012-13 (Halpern, Asham, Nash, Pyatt, Powe):

176 GP / 81 blocks / 268 hits

Average shots blocked: 0.46
Average hits: 1.52

That shows a bit more of a difference, but still not huge.


And if you add in the recent acquisitions + Kreider/Miller, you get:

Average shots blocked: 0.46
Average hits: 1.64

So, more hits per game, slightly less blocks among those specific groups of players. But as a team, not much difference. Here are the player specific stats if you’re interested:


2011-12:
Player GP Blocks Hits Blocks/Game Hits/Game
Brandon Dubinsky 77 36 207 0.47 2.69
Brandon Prust 82 51 144 0.62 1.76
Ruslan Fedotenko 73 57 86 0.78 1.18
Artem Anisimov 79 46 75 0.58 0.95
John Mitchell 63 27 89 0.43 1.41
Mike Rupp 60 13 103 0.22 1.72


2012-13:
Player GP Blocks Hits Blocks/Game Hits/Game
Jeff Halpern 30 13 36 0.43 1.2
Arron Asham 26 4 37 0.15 1.42
Rick Nash 42 23 45 0.55 1.07
Taylor Pyatt 46 25 83 0.54 1.8
Darroll Powe 32 16 67 0.5 2.09
Chris Kreider 21 6 31 0.29 1.48
J.T. Miller 26 12 47 0.46 1.81
Ryane Clowe 11 4 30 0.36 2.73
Derick Brassard 11 5 25 0.45 2.28
John Moore 11 11 18 1.0 1.64





This part of your argument doesn't get reflected in stats. That said, I'd agree with it. The new bodies acquired in the offseason to replace our FA losses/Dubi/Anisimov, overall, have been less defensively sound in terms of positioning and the defense corp has been much more prone to dumb mistakes.

The other piece of the puzzle - which also isn't reflected in stats - is that these replacements also haven't been as aggressive and solid on the forecheck as Dubi/Anisimov/Prust/Feds/Mitchell. That said, I think this was addressed somewhat with the Gabby trade and the Clowe acquisition.




I don't think the collapse is THE problem and see it as generally fairly effective, and keeps the other team to the outside with perimeter shots. I'll agree that I'm not a fan of how it leaves the points wide open though and would love to see that tweaked; but in the end don't see that as the primary reason the team has struggled.
I do have class shortly, but I will give a little feedback.

I like your response. I like the give and take from you.

I still think there has been more of a requirement for Henrik to bail out this team this year more than last year's team. Unfortunately they don't tally heroic saves.

Stats are absolutely welcomed for food for thought. I don't think faceoff percentages tell the story at all. And I think in you're following responses you show this without trying to. I will stand by that there is more running around in their own, poor positioning, missed assignments, etc. They do get pinned more than last year. And you basically say it better than I do when you say they are less positionally sound. And expanding on your point about the previous players being more aggressive, that is absolutely true. Those players (dubinsky, fedotenko, prust, etc) read plays better. They had quicker reaction times so they didn't look as loose on the pointmen. They got to them faster and when they couldn't they blocked the shot. That is not the case this year. The stats show a disparity in shot blocking ability. Clowe adds to the grind it out game that torts like but he is still too damn slow and has poor reactionary time in his own end. So does Nash as far as reactions go. The 2011-2012 group were absolutely more aggressive and got in on the forecheck quicker therefore they were beating opposing teams to the dump in's and thus were able to wear teams down over the course of 60 minutes. The dump and chase worked last year for those reasons alone. There was less time in the defensive end and more time below the opposing teams goal line.

I think the collapsing defense is a huge part of the problem. I think when you have players like Nash, Clowe, and Pyatt who do not react quick enough you have to have them tighter on the points. Let that strong defensive 6 you have to do their job down low with the centermen we have. Stepan, Brassard, and Boyle have all shown efficient games down low imo when it comes to the defensive part of the game. And since Powe was moved to center, him too.

The strategy needs to change.

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Old
04-24-2013, 03:26 PM
  #750
Trxjw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
at some point you have to start to look at your coaching staff and the players.

you can't blame the architect when the forman and his electricians burned the building down...
And sometimes you have to realize that the constant is the problem and not the variables. What's more likely: Dozens of different player/coaching combinations all being the root cause of our mediocrity, or the fact that the same guy has been running the show for over a decade, and was the reason all of those combinations existed in the first place, has failed to do his job?

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