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2013 NHL Draft Part 3 (Flyers own the 11th overall pick)

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04-24-2013, 02:00 PM
  #101
LegionOfDoom91
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I don't see the Flyers drafting Russians in the first round.
I would say his contract is more of a barrier than his ethnicity. I'm not expecting the Flyers to draft him though.

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04-24-2013, 02:07 PM
  #102
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That's a very good description but bigger and a little meaner.
Yeah, definitely meaner and a bit bigger, but the overall game is very similar. I miss Desjardins. He was such an underrated player.

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04-24-2013, 02:12 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Yeah, definitely meaner and a bit bigger, but the overall game is very similar. I miss Desjardins. He was such an underrated player.
It's a shame that he had absolute slop to play with on the back end when he was here. If Clarke had just a little more respect for upgrading the defense instead of always acquiring forwards, the Flyers would have won a cup.

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04-24-2013, 02:50 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Picture Eric Desjardins and you've got Ristolainen.
While perhaps not the sexiest pick in the world, then, I really think he's a better option than some of the second tier forwards (Monahan, Shinkaruk, etc.) He's exactly the kind of player we need, and it would set the defensive corps up nicely going forward.

If you look at some of the recent draft winners, you don't necessarily need a franchise-caliber #1--just a few very good top-pairing defenders that compliment each other and the team's system.

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04-24-2013, 02:59 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
It's a shame that he had absolute slop to play with on the back end when he was here. If Clarke had just a little more respect for upgrading the defense instead of always acquiring forwards, the Flyers would have won a cup.
If he hadn't missed the 2004 playoffs I think the Flyers would have won that year. Not sure of the actual pairs, but I believe the healthy top 8 was:

Desjardins
Johnsson
Timmander
Malakhov
Markov
Ragnarsson
Therien
Pitkanen


Last edited by Curufinwe: 04-24-2013 at 03:07 PM.
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04-24-2013, 03:39 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Picture Eric Desjardins and you've got Ristolainen.
I would really like another Rico.

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04-24-2013, 04:02 PM
  #107
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I would really like another Rico.
Rico was such a good defenseman. I don't think a lot of people truly appreciated just how good he was until he retired. That season from hell showed just how much he was missed.

If Ristolainen turns out to be a 35 point per year, top minute playing defenseman, I think whoever ends up with him will be really happy.

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04-24-2013, 04:13 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I would say his contract is more of a barrier than his ethnicity. I'm not expecting the Flyers to draft him though.
Theoretically, could Holmgren send a representative over to Mother Russia and speak with both Nichushkin and Traktor to ask about the amount it would take to buy him out and bring him over for next season? If Nichushkin is true to his word about hoping to become a Flyer, that might be leverage to grab him that other clubs wouldn't necessarily have.

I know, I know, take everything with a grain of salt.

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04-24-2013, 04:19 PM
  #109
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Really want Ristolainen if we don't get incredibly lucky and win the first pick. But I am fine with them taking a forward at 8th. BPA always.

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04-24-2013, 05:57 PM
  #110
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Do you guys think that if we end up taking a forward with our first that homer will try to move couturier for a young defenseman?

Opinions aside, and I like couturier, if we were to take a forward with the 1st, I think it at least strengthens the chance that Couts is traded.

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04-24-2013, 06:04 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Really want Ristolainen if we don't get incredibly lucky and win the first pick. But I am fine with them taking a forward at 8th. BPA always.
Hopefully he is the Finnish Brodin.

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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Do you guys think that if we end up taking a forward with our first that homer will try to move couturier for a young defenseman?

Opinions aside, and I like couturier, if we were to take a forward with the 1st, I think it at least strengthens the chance that Couts is traded.
I have said a couple of times if we do draft a top end forward, we might look to move Couts for a defender. Yandle comes to mind, but the offseason is a different ball game. Players we don't know about could be discussed.

Hell none of the big named analysts knew Weber was in Philly for a tour and didn't know about the trade talk until after the offer sheet.

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04-24-2013, 06:04 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Do you guys think that if we end up taking a forward with our first that homer will try to move couturier for a young defenseman?

Opinions aside, and I like couturier, if we were to take a forward with the 1st, I think it at least strengthens the chance that Couts is traded.
I think it is easy to say that it would, but I'm not 100 percent sure its true. The player who would make Couturier "expendable" in this scenario (I'm not convinced) is Lauhgton, who's already in the system. If we draft say, Monahan, then obviously something has to give at some point--but who's to say that it doesn't end up being Laughton who gets moved then, with the assumption that the line-up, long-term, shapes out like this:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds
_____-Monahan-Read

I really don't believe that you're going to get enough value for Couturier right now to make it worthwhile to move him.

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04-24-2013, 07:29 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Do you guys think that if we end up taking a forward with our first that homer will try to move couturier for a young defenseman?

Opinions aside, and I like couturier, if we were to take a forward with the 1st, I think it at least strengthens the chance that Couts is traded.
I do think that becomes more likely, but I'm a bit skeptical that Homer will be able to get a real franchise defenseman that way. Those guys are hard to come by and don't get traded that often.

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Old
04-24-2013, 09:47 PM
  #114
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CSS has released their final rankings.

Here is the NA skaters.

North American: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=8...d=nhl:topheads

European: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=8...d=nhl:topheads

Some interesting things of note. Top NA defenders are Jones, Nurse and then Mueller. Interesting that Mueller has risen up from 9th NA skater. Zykov is also in top 10 at 7th. Also he Ian McCoshen is an interesting name. Defender who could go in the 2nd round and is going to BC next season.

Other players:

Zadarov: 22nd
Risto: 4th (European)
Mantha: 10th

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Old
04-24-2013, 10:49 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
CSS has released their final rankings.

Here is the NA skaters.

North American: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=8...d=nhl:topheads

European: http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=8...d=nhl:topheads

Some interesting things of note. Top NA defenders are Jones, Nurse and then Mueller. Interesting that Mueller has risen up from 9th NA skater. Zykov is also in top 10 at 7th. Also he Ian McCoshen is an interesting name. Defender who could go in the 2nd round and is going to BC next season.

Other players:

Zadarov: 22nd
Risto: 4th (European)
Mantha: 10th
If Nurse really does go top 5/6, I could see us pulling for Rist anywhere between 8 and 10.

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Old
04-25-2013, 12:47 AM
  #116
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Risto and Zadorov (2nd rd) - I am now thinking about who will be up on the board in the 2nd round....

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04-25-2013, 06:09 AM
  #117
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I think the Flyers should go defense in the first round, even if there is a "better" forward. If they do draft a forward in the top ten, I don't want to see them draft a center. I get it...BPA blah blah blah. But the Flyers have so many centers already, that drafting another one is only going to be like drafting someone to trade them. If they don't draft a defender it has to be a winger (or a center that they are going to convert to wing).

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04-25-2013, 06:22 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think the Flyers should go defense in the first round, even if there is a "better" forward. If they do draft a forward in the top ten, I don't want to see them draft a center. I get it...BPA blah blah blah. But the Flyers have so many centers already, that drafting another one is only going to be like drafting someone to trade them. If they don't draft a defender it has to be a winger (or a center that they are going to convert to wing).
You don't draft an 18 year old to fill a current need. The majority of them won't be ready for a couple of years at least. A lot can happen between then especially with the way Homer turns over the roster. They have to find a way to sign their three centers next summer. Laughton doesn't project to be as good as any of them so a center could actually be in need in a couple of years. Not saying I want a center, but I wouldn't be upset if they took one @ 8 barring it wasn't some crazy selection.

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04-25-2013, 06:31 AM
  #119
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I find it rather fun watch you guys call Timonen "Timo" and Ristolainen "Risto" as those quoted are actually often used first names in Finland.

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04-25-2013, 06:44 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Rico was such a good defenseman. I don't think a lot of people truly appreciated just how good he was until he retired. That season from hell showed just how much he was missed.

If Ristolainen turns out to be a 35 point per year, top minute playing defenseman, I think whoever ends up with him will be really happy.
One of the best to lace them up for the Black and Orange on defense.

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04-25-2013, 07:14 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
You don't draft an 18 year old to fill a current need. The majority of them won't be ready for a couple of years at least. A lot can happen between then especially with the way Homer turns over the roster. They have to find a way to sign their three centers next summer. Laughton doesn't project to be as good as any of them so a center could actually be in need in a couple of years. Not saying I want a center, but I wouldn't be upset if they took one @ 8 barring it wasn't some crazy selection.
I agree with this in most cases. But this Flyers team is not most cases. This team has exactly zero guys in the system that project to legitimate top four defenders and a glut of high-ceiling centers. Ghost maybe has an outside chance to fall into the category of potential top four defenders, but at this point he is still too far away to really say he'll make it there. The rest of the defenders really don't project to anything more than borderline NHLers or bottom pairing guys, which can be had in the free agent market on a yearly basis. Even if they passed on a Monahan type player for a defender and Monahan ends up being "better" than the defender, I think you still do it.

There is a difference between better and valuable that some people on here don't seem to recognize. Look at the JvR trade. JvR is probably "better" than Luke Schenn. But at the time of the trade the team had an excess of offensive talent and no young shut down defenders. They traded a "better" player for a more "valuable" player. If you just look at the names or stats in a vaccuum, things look different. If you look at what this team is in desparate need of (defense, young defensemen), choosing a "lesser" player is still a more "valuable" selection. At this point in time, a center that might be a top six guy in a couple years is not as vauable to this team as a defender who might be a top four guy in a couple years. Yes, a lot can change and maybe the Flyers make a trade or whatever and acquire a young top four defender. But at the same time they may also make a trade and get a dud while giving up something good. I'd rather draft the defenseman who may be slightly less talented but has the potential to make a bigger impact on this team than draft the center who is more talented but his impact would be less felt.

I'm not suggesting they draft a defender to step in and play next season, I'm suggesting they draft a defender so that the team has a decent prospect coming up. The Flyers system is full of centers. They will re-sign Couturier, Giroux, and Schenn next year. Giroux will get a nice raise, but Schenn and Couturier are not getting huge raises. They have not earned them and they are still on their first contracts. Laughton looks to be like a solid two-way forward and my guess is he is on the team next year. Cousins looks like he should be able to make the jump to the NHL in the next couple years. Someone is going to get moved to wing or be traded. Why draft another guy that is going to either have to switch positions or be traded? Go defense or go wing, but going center (outside of MacKinnon) doesn't make sense.

EDIT: Look at from a more obvious scenario. If the Kings were up in the first round and the BPA was a goalie, do you think they would draft him? I would bet not. Flyers can go BPA in rounds 2-7. First round take a defenseman.

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Old
04-25-2013, 07:32 AM
  #122
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One of the best to lace them up for the Black and Orange on defense.
I'd say he's the 2nd best ever behind Howe.

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04-25-2013, 07:39 AM
  #123
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Quote:
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I'd say he's the 2nd best ever behind Howe.
I think if we are just talking about best players and not best Flyers careers I'd go with a list like this:

Pronger
Howe
Coffey
Timonen
Desjardins

If we are talking about best Flyers careers I'd go with what you said. Howe then Desjardins.

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04-25-2013, 07:43 AM
  #124
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Nikita Zadorov is #7 OVERALL in ISS April rankings and #22 in North America in CSS April rankings. Anyone have a guess why they are so different?

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04-25-2013, 07:45 AM
  #125
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I'm pretty well sold on the Ristolainen pick--I had read good things about him a month or so back, but then I thought we were going to be picking in a range that wouldn't really make sense for him (5-7 or so). At this point, we'll probably be a bit lucky to pick 10th, which is right around where he is projected to go. But I think he's a great fit--short-term (regarded as near NHL-ready) and long-term (PPQB, steadying influence on the play, RH shot).

Of course, this means that there's absolutely no chance we'll draft him...

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