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Old
04-24-2013, 03:03 PM
  #26
nameless1
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
What's the word on Shayne Taker? Was he signed?
Doesn't seem to be any news yet.
Maybe he is still looking through his options...
Or he could always go back to school.

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04-24-2013, 03:08 PM
  #27
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I like Gradin, but we overrate the **** out of him as a scout.
What's not to like? Produces NHLers with ****** picks.

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04-24-2013, 03:14 PM
  #28
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What's not to like? Produces NHLers with ****** picks.
If we're judging him by the same criteria we judge others then you could question him on the Rodin pick. You could also wonder why he didn't spot Karlsson. Lots of other good Swedish draft picks that got by him.

Andersson is a good pick but Marcus Kruger went only a few spots later.

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Old
04-24-2013, 03:21 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
If we're judging him by the same criteria we judge others then you could question him on the Rodin pick.
One can overlook some of the Rahimi's if he can select an Edler. Batter average might by iffy but it's a whole lot better than the "strike-out kings" on number of the other scouting personnel (eg., Canadian amateur scouts).

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Old
04-24-2013, 03:27 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
If we're judging him by the same criteria we judge others then you could question him on the Rodin pick. You could also wonder why he didn't spot Karlsson. Lots of other good Swedish draft picks that got by him.

Andersson is a good pick but Marcus Kruger went only a few spots later.
A scout's job is to find value. I don't consider 'missing' on players a failure of a scout, as that implies an ability to be everywhere at once. For example, he probably did scout Karlsson, but he certainly wasn't kicking around Ontario to scout Hodgson. That was a call of someone else.

Perfect batting average is an unreasonable expectation, too. We agonize too much on hindsight here on HFboards. Who is producing value? Who isn't? That's the expectation we should have as fans.


Last edited by Wisp: 04-24-2013 at 03:32 PM.
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Old
04-24-2013, 03:28 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
What's not to like? Produces NHLers with ****** picks.
9 years ago.

edit* Wisp, keep in mind I said I like Gradin, I just think we overrate him a fair bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
One can overlook some of the Rahimi's if he can select an Edler. Batter average might by iffy but it's a whole lot better than the "strike-out kings" on number of the other scouting personnel (eg., Canadian amateur scouts).
I like your analogy here.

We have lots of strike out kings.


Last edited by arsmaster: 04-24-2013 at 03:51 PM.
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Old
04-24-2013, 03:29 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
A scout's job is to find value. I don't consider 'missing' on players a failure of a scout, as that implies an ability to be everywhere at once. For example, he probably did scout Karlsson, but he certainly wasn't kicking around Ontario to scout Hodgson. That was someone else's call.
1st round picks tend to be the call of the GM - though it might be a bit fuzzy in this case as Gillis was just recently hired.

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Old
04-24-2013, 03:33 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisp View Post
A scout's job is to find value. I don't consider 'missing' on players a failure of a scout, as that implies an ability to be everywhere at once. For example, he probably did scout Karlsson, but he certainly wasn't kicking around Ontario to scout Hodgson. That was a call of someone else.

Perfect batting average is an unreasonable expectation, too. We agonize too much on hindsight here on HFboards. Who is producing value? Who isn't? Simple as that.
Sure, but you can also say that Gradin isn't "pushing" hard enough to draft his guys.

He obviously pushed for Edler (9 years ago), and it sounds like he also pushed really hard for Anton Rodin, considering Gillis said they had him in their 1st round in 2009.

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Old
04-24-2013, 03:36 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
If we're judging him by the same criteria we judge others then you could question him on the Rodin pick. You could also wonder why he didn't spot Karlsson. Lots of other good Swedish draft picks that got by him.

Andersson is a good pick but Marcus Kruger went only a few spots later.
At 10 in 2008...
It was Hodgson vs. Beach...
At the time Karlsson was thought to be a 1st rounder...
Although in the 20s to late round range...
Even at 15....
He is thought to be a reach.
His selection is to the credit of the Sens' scouts...
And I certainly don't blame the Canucks for not selecting him.
He is just too far back to be considered...
On most expert's lists.

A lot of posters use Edler as an example...
But he is more luck than anything.
Both Håkan Andersson...
The Detroit European scout who found Datsyuk and Zetterberg...
And Gaudin heard about him from a third party...
But only Gaudin saw him live...
Due to some unforeseen circumstance on Andersson's part.

I agree that Gaudin might be overrated...
But he has sources in Europe...
Demonstrated most notably by Edler...
And that goes a long way.
He is also able to find good NHLers...
In the top 6 and top 9...
That is to his credit...
And credit has to be given when it is due.

Mats Frøshaug and Rodin are probably good picks at the time...
But they are derailed by injuries.
I certainly don't blame him for it.
Development is just as important as scouting.

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Old
04-24-2013, 07:55 PM
  #35
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Gaunce scores to tie up the game.

Need to win to tie the series.

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04-24-2013, 08:17 PM
  #36
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From what I've seen through twitter, etc. is that Gaunce has been a two way force, battling hard along the board and blocking shots at every opportunity.

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04-24-2013, 09:21 PM
  #37
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Aaaaand it's done.

Barrie wins 4-3 in overtime.

Gaunce 1 goal in the loss.

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Old
04-24-2013, 09:28 PM
  #38
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Aaaaand it's done.

Barrie wins 4-3 in overtime.

Gaunce 1 goal in the loss.
Now they're down 3-1 in the series?

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Old
04-25-2013, 03:12 AM
  #39
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Whoever is doing the scouting in Ontario is doing a good job. Drafted Corrado late, also identified Price and Hutton in the Junior provincial League and picked up some free agents like Archibald and McEneny.

While none of these players are established in the NHL, all appear to be legit pick ups with at least some chance to make the Canucks. That's not bad when you are drafting late or taking un-drafted players. This record gives me some hope that he may be right on Gaunce.

This seems to be, by far, our best area of scouting in NA. Both the drafting from Western Canada (including many missed players in the provincial leagues) and Quebec is open to a lot criticism. Many of these pick-ups from these areas have left you shaking your head and wondering what anyone could see in these players

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Old
04-25-2013, 03:14 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Whoever is doing the scouting in Ontario is doing a good job. Drafted Corrado late, also identified Price and Hutton in the Junior provincial League and picked up some free agents like Archibald and McEneny.

While none of these players are established in the NHL, all appear to be legit pick ups with at least some chance to make the Canucks. That's not bad when you are drafting late or taking un-drafted players. This record gives me some hope that he may be right on Gaunce.

This seems to be, by far, our best area of scouting in NA. Both the drafting from Western Canada (including many missed players in the provincial leagues) and Quebec is open to a lot criticism. Many of these pick-ups from these areas have left you shaking your head and wondering what anyone could see in these players
Good to have at least 1 strong area.
OHL is very competitive too...
A lot of elite players come from that league.

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Old
04-25-2013, 03:35 AM
  #41
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by nameless1 View Post
Doesn't seem to be any news yet.
Maybe he is still looking through his options...
Or he could always go back to school.

Thanks for the confirmation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Whoever is doing the scouting in Ontario is doing a good job. Drafted Corrado late, also identified Price and Hutton in the Junior provincial League and picked up some free agents like Archibald and McEneny.

While none of these players are established in the NHL, all appear to be legit pick ups with at least some chance to make the Canucks. That's not bad when you are drafting late or taking un-drafted players. This record gives me some hope that he may be right on Gaunce.

This seems to be, by far, our best area of scouting in NA. Both the drafting from Western Canada (including many missed players in the provincial leagues) and Quebec is open to a lot criticism. Many of these pick-ups from these areas have left you shaking your head and wondering what anyone could see in these players


The OHL is the most "safe" league to draft from, so good scouting there is a must. The QMJHL and WHL scouting has been questionable and/or non-existent. Once they get these areas ironed out, we should see an improvement overall.

Right now, I see the strengths of the scouting staff as such:

OHL - Very good.
NCAA - Good.
Sweden - Average-Good.

WHL - Non-existent.
QMJHL - Poor-Average.
Other leagues - NA or inconclusive.

They really need to get the WHL going again, and "correct" their mixed QMJHL scouting.

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Old
04-25-2013, 09:22 AM
  #42
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QMJHL can't even have the word average in it.

It is by far the league we've gone to the well the most in, and very few are even average picks.

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Old
04-25-2013, 10:11 AM
  #43
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QMJHL can't even have the word average in it.

It is by far the league we've gone to the well the most in, and very few are even average picks.

I may have been too kind. But on the whole, Grenier, Mallet, Honzik should all be on contracts next year. That's better than I would have expected. Poor might still be more accurate, but it's not abysmal.

On another note, for the people that follow the draft more closely, what have you seen that would lead you to question the future of a prospect like Joseph Labate? He has a good combination of size and mobility, plus he can think the game at an average-good level. So what would ultimately cause him to bust? Have you seen similar players bust before?

I look at him like a Shawn Matthias type, who can also move for his size. Matthias is just turning the corner now at the age of 25. Should Labate be afforded the same leeway? I think he will get a contract regardless. I'm just curious as to his chances of making this league given the progression of similar players before him. His skill-set is uncommon to me (as is Grenier's), so he should still have a legitimate shot.

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Old
04-25-2013, 10:22 AM
  #44
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I may have been too kind. But on the whole, Grenier, Mallet, Honzik should all be on contracts next year. That's better than I would have expected. Poor might still be more accurate, but it's not abysmal.

On another note, for the people that follow the draft more closely, what have you seen that would lead you to question the future of a prospect like Joseph Labate? He has a good combination of size and mobility, plus he can think the game at an average-good level. So what would ultimately cause him to bust? Have you seen similar players bust before?

I look at him like a Shawn Matthias type, who can also move for his size. Matthias is just turning the corner now at the age of 25. Should Labate be afforded the same leeway? I think he will get a contract regardless. I'm just curious as to his chances of making this league given the progression of similar players before him. His skill-set is uncommon to me (as is Grenier's), so he should still have a legitimate shot.
On the Q, it depends where you draw the line. We've been OK there, but we still seem to keep drafting guys like Sawyer Hannay there.

The Q scout does not deserve the leeway he gets in his selections, especially if you go back 10 years.

Our record in the Q is awful.



-----


Labate seems like a late bloomer, he looks like he'll be able to put mass on, but at this point he's just a tall skinny kid, who is fairly weak for his size. No doubt he gets signed when he leaves school, but I think he stays for the next two. If he adds another 10-15lbs this summer, he should be quite the player for Wisconsin next year.


Last edited by arsmaster: 04-25-2013 at 10:34 AM.
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Old
04-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #45
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Labate seems like a late bloomer, he looks like he'll be able to put mass on, but at this point he's just a tall skinny kid, who is fairly weak for his size. No doubt he gets signed when he leaves school, but I think he stays for the next two. If he adds another 10-15lbs this summer, he should be quite the player for Wisconsin next year.

I'm more wondering about the players with his attributes and their success/fail rates... Specifically, being able to skate like he does at his size. Are there players in the past that have had his type of frame and skating ability that have flopped? How does a guy like Oreskovich compare? Matthias? Bickell? Pouliot? etc...

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04-25-2013, 12:45 PM
  #46
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Think we see Gaunce come practice with the big club when his season is over?

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Old
04-25-2013, 12:47 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Whoever is doing the scouting in Ontario is doing a good job. Drafted Corrado late, also identified Price and Hutton in the Junior provincial League and picked up some free agents like Archibald and McEneny.

While none of these players are established in the NHL, all appear to be legit pick ups with at least some chance to make the Canucks. That's not bad when you are drafting late or taking un-drafted players. This record gives me some hope that he may be right on Gaunce.

This seems to be, by far, our best area of scouting in NA. Both the drafting from Western Canada (including many missed players in the provincial leagues) and Quebec is open to a lot criticism. Many of these pick-ups from these areas have left you shaking your head and wondering what anyone could see in these players
This is an area where it seemed Gillis upgraded (positively). Kind of a mixed bag in the rest of Canada (re: before he got here vs after he got here).

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Old
04-25-2013, 02:37 PM
  #48
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I'm more wondering about the players with his attributes and their success/fail rates... Specifically, being able to skate like he does at his size. Are there players in the past that have had his type of frame and skating ability that have flopped? How does a guy like Oreskovich compare? Matthias? Bickell? Pouliot? etc...
If you want to look at past examples with similar attributes to Labate who have flopped, there are probably lots of them. Though I seem to recall reading somewhere that power forwards drafted in a certain range almost certainly never panned out - can't remember for the life of me what it was though.

MS for instance seems to have already labelled him a bust, and that's probably due to looking at the odds based on production for guys at the same age. Perhaps he just had a poor start to the year? Still think it's too early to draw any meaningful conclusions. Next season should be the one that's most telling IMO. Even if he tops out as a Bickell-type of player I'd be happy with the pick.

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Old
04-25-2013, 04:06 PM
  #49
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we draft too much from QMJHL...

never get anything out of them.

how many 2nd selection picks have we spend there in the last few years? too many.

since 2000 the most games played and most productive player we drafted from the Q is Jason King...

in fact you have to go back to 1986 to Ronnie Stern to beat Jason King.


Last edited by jigsaw99: 04-25-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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Old
04-25-2013, 04:12 PM
  #50
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there still a chance Gauce and his team could win the series......just need to win two straight games

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