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David Desharnais - "Time for a Change" Edition

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Old
04-24-2013, 07:40 PM
  #376
MXD
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You have indeed a very keen sense of observation if you noticed that I didn't even care to refute your points.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
The really funny part is you didnt refute any of my points. I dont hate him, nor does he make me angry its the opportunities that he is given when he so clearly doesnt deserve it that makes me angry.

If for the next few months you go to work (assuming your in the working world) and you give it your all, working overtime, not stopping until you go well above and beyond your job and you get passed over time and time again for someone who is well known not to be good at their job would you be a little frustrated?

Imagine how Pleks, Eller, Galch and Bourque feel right now. Pleks and Eller get cruddy assignments and starts, Pleks gets lucky and has some PP time but Eller has much more PIM than PP time (and by comparison Desharnais has over 4x Ellers PIM in PP time). Lets dig a little deeper, with ~100 more PP minutes than Eller and ~100 minutes more in icetime per game (likely because of the PP!) paired with the ridiculous O-zone start percentage, DD manages to get a whopping 1 more point than Eller. How can that be. Well we all know why, I think some of us just aren't willing to admit it.

Im happy with how Eller turned out, and there arent many things about this hockey team that I would change right now (within the realm of what we can change and despite the fact that the sky is falling down) but DD playing wing and being strictly a PP specialist is probably the biggest one. Two would be the fans leaving Price the **** alone but thats a different story for another day.

/rant.

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Old
04-24-2013, 08:00 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Kudos. Well said.
Signing DD to a four year extension was a very poor hockey decision. Let's see where this leads and how Bergevin recovers from this mistake.
It's not because you need to upgrade that re-signing him was a mistake.

What's the problem if he gets moved down to the 3rd line next year as a winger next to Galchenyuk and another big winger while still producing around 40-50pts?

His contract is perfect for what he could provide, offensive depth in the top 9.

In any event, his contract is movable.

A mistake is trading for Kaberle. A mistake is trading for Gomez. A mistake is signing George Laraque, or Gionta to 5M, etc..
Re-signing a 50-60pt player to 3.5M is not a mistake. Maybe you would have preferred to just let him walk, and upgrade (nothing prevents upgrading btw), but it's not an actual mistake.
The only way this becomes a mistake is if DD starts sucking some more and becomes a crap 3rd liner who puts up 30pts and actually hurts us. We'll see if that happens, but I seriously doubt it will.

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04-24-2013, 08:02 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
So let's start a play by play defense of DD play. Wait. No thanks.
I never said that. In fact, I never said any 'defense' of his play. I said, why aren't other criticized for same mistakes? Big difference.

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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk15 View Post
Why the love for DD?

Koivu were never good enough for Montreal Canadiens but DD is?? That's a joke?

Koivu was 5 times the player DD is or will be and Koivu still better when he sleep then DD on the ice. The finnish is a ****in true warrior, heart and soul, very good hockey player and he can play in all situation not a one trick pony. Koivu was better in all parts of the game than DD. Each time we have played a big game, you know Koivu will step up. Koivu never have a Pacioretty on his wing and he don't need that because it's a kind of center make look better the 2 wingers he play with, Zednik and Savage says hi! You can put who you want with Saku and he still produce. Can you said the same for DD?

If Koivu, 5'11", isn't good enough at the time, why Desharnais, 5'7", it is now? What I am missing? Explain me, please ...

In Montreal (Koivu)
Season : 792g 191-450=641 -10 (66,37pts per 82 games)
Playoff : 54g 16-32=48 +11

This year
Koivu 46g 9-18=27 +7 51,4% (faceoffs) .. 38 years old
Desharnais 46g 9-18=27 -3 49.8% (faceoffs) .. 26 years old
I love Koivu. Have an autograph picture of him on my wall. Not sure why you're comparing the two.

Koivu was let go because people wanted him to be a big #1 center or nothing. Now people want DD to be a big #2 center or gtfo too.

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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
Might be one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen.

Koivu was good enough for MTL... he played like 800 games here. Would be well over 1,000 if he stayed healthy.

Desharnais wasn't Koivu's replacement, he was Scott Gomez's replacement at less than half the salary.
Yah. Gomez was Koivu's replacement first, that's not DD's fault, wasn't even on the team.

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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Nice straw man attempt. Desharnais isn't versatile enough to play in a 3rd line role nor does to team want to play him on wing. Can't kill penalties, isn't a defensive presence, or a good faceoff player. The team is basically forced to play him in the offensive 2nd line role regardless of whether he produces or not. He is now signed long term thereby giving us the idea that this will be the case not now but long term.

Here are the 2nd line centers from healthy East playoff teams this season:

Pittsburgh: Evgeny Malkin
Boston: David Krejci
Washington: Mike Ribeiro
Montreal: David Desharnais
Toronto: Tyler Bozak
New York Islanders: Frans Nielsen
New York Rangers: Brad Richards
Ottawa: Kyle Turris

IMO he's not a 2nd line center for a playoff team. Ideally, either you have a C that is an offensive catalyst or one that can be good defensively/tough minute eater. He hasn't been either yet we will likely have him in that role for at least the next couple seasons. The West is pretty much the same thing:

Chicago: Sharp/Bolland/Kane
Anaheim: Koivu
Vancouver: Kesler
Los Angeles: Richards
San Jose: Pavelski/Couture
St.Louis: Berglund/Steen
Minnesota: Cullen
Columbus: Dubinsky/Anisimov/Johansen - No Idea
Detroit: Zetterberg

People can spin this and hate monger, but I don't think it's far fetched to suggest the Habs need to upgrade DD if they want to be a good team. One dimensional ~45-50 point player as #2 C is not ideal for a good team...regardless of cap hit.
FWIW Wats, many flaws. How is he not a #2C for a playoff team when we're comfortably in the playoffs?

Also, his faceoff ability is still better than Galchenyuk or Eller.

People are talking about buying out brad Richards not long ago, so not sure what this proves.

Finally, he's not even #2C. Him and Eller split #2 duties IMO. Only reason DD has more minutes is because of PP. We've gotten more PPs than PKs. If it were other way around, Eller would play more. Do I agree on PP ice time? Not really and I've said this in the past but ES minutes are fairly similar.

Habs ARE a good team though...honestly, habs could upgrade Plekanec, Eller, Bourque, Prust, Markov, Emelin, etc... So, yes...upgrades will increase the strength of the team on paper. No doubt about it but it's a little much to suggest DD is the problem. Eller at #2 is still a problem anyway. That's why they split duties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Do you trust the team's overall performance over 48 games vs last season's 82?

Worth the concern/discussion since he and Plekanec are the only C signed long term.
I wrote this before our collapse:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1402713

Clearly, I ******** you not but I put less emphasis on this year than an 82 game season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Yes I think we need to upgrade him to solidify the team as 'good'/contender. Indeed the team has been winning with him as the #2 for much of this season but IMO this is more due to the Habs having high end 3rd line production from Eller/Galchenyuk to compensate negatives from the top 6.

What is 'pretty good job'? He was one of the most sheltered forwards on the team and still lead all forwards on the team with 40+ games for GA/60min 5 on 5: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...23+24+13+15+29

I think you need a balance of on-ice value and cap hit value. Rene Bourque is also decent for his cap hit, doesn't mean we should be satisfied with this option long term.

I'd be thrilled with a Stastny for example, but would be happy with a for defensively sound C even if it means less points.
Offensive matchup sheltered, not defensive matchup sheltered. As we discussed earlier, Eller nor Galchenyuk do good on the road while facing other matchups that DD faces. To the point Galchenyuk goes from 17 points in his "super hard matchups" to 7 points when our coach can't put him in "tough situations". Ironic no?

Advanced stats are nice but still raw. They don't paint entire picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
If the Habs have a Stastny, Habs don't need Bourque to attempt to have 3 scoring lines (heck if DD is traded for Stastny, I'd assume Bourque is part of the package ). He can play Plekanec type tough minutes and provide better offensive production. His international chemistry/experience with Pacioretty and good faceoff skills would make him perfect for this team. Granted, it's a pipe dream since Avs likely wouldn't want DD or Bourque but IMO he's a perfect fit to making the team a contender.

The issue is he isn't playing a 3rd liner role and isn't versatile enough to be in any other role. With that cap hit and respectable GF/60 5 on 5 comes several negatives from needing to face lower-corsi opposition relative to the rest of the team, having the best corsi linemates relative to rest of the team, leading team in GA/60 5 on 5 2/3 seasons even with the prior two. My assumption is that he also will not be moved to wing. To me the negatives outweigh the positives - at least if the goal is to be a contender. In a vacuum, looking at only his production and cap hit, I can completely understand the idea he can be a long term asset on a good team. However, taking everything into consideration, I can't agree he's a building block piece to keep long term if the team wants to be a contender. I'd prefer a less GF/60 5 on 5 if that C can bring much less GA/60 5 on 5, play tough minutes, and be able to play with anyone.

What has he done on the PP last 3 years that makes him a special presence? Perhaps one of the top players on the Habs, but the Habs had the 28th ranked PP last season when he led the team in PP points. This season the Habs have a 4th ranked PP with little contribution from him point wise.
While I'd love Stastny in DD's place, what happens to the "galchenyuk is ready for #2C next year" whining we always see from others? Will Eller play wing now for Galchenyuk's development? That's what it comes with but yes DD+ for Stastny? Sign me up. I'd love that.

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Old
04-24-2013, 08:32 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
You have indeed a very keen sense of observation if you noticed that I didn't even care to refute your points.
Im not here to squabble, if you want to have an intelligent debate, I welcome it otherwise just leave it alone. This board is littered that crap.

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04-24-2013, 08:57 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Im not here to squabble, if you want to have an intelligent debate, I welcome it otherwise just leave it alone. This board is littered that crap.
You finished your previous post with ''/rant'' and now you're saying you'd welcome an intelligent debate?
Not quite sure it adds up...

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Old
04-24-2013, 09:57 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Im not here to squabble, if you want to have an intelligent debate, I welcome it otherwise just leave it alone. This board is littered that crap.
...but you indeed ended up involuntarily squabbling.

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Old
04-24-2013, 10:02 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by The n00b King View Post
By mentioning Koivu in this thread, I realize how much I miss the guy. He would have been perfect on this team. Never should have let that guy go. He'd be an upgrade on DD that's for sure. And he would finally be in the role everyone always wanted him in: 2nd line center.
I love Koivu, one of my fav players ever but really? Perfect? He's 38 going on 39, he ain't no spring chicken. Just how long do you think he'll be able to play? Besides, I don't want Pleks as a 1st line C (till Galch becomes 1st C anyhow). I want a top end legit 1st C. Keep Pleks as 2nd C, Eller as 3rd C. Develop Galch at whatever position/line till he's ready for 1st C. Put DD on the wing with Eller. And bring Koivu back (in management) to kick everyone's ass and teach what real effort really means. After he retires anyhow.
Well, I would love it if he comes back to retire as a Hab, that would be amazing

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04-24-2013, 10:09 PM
  #383
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Nevermind, not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I'm ok with DD in general. But accountability and utilization are issues, and that's not really on him. If he isn't producing or missing assignments then he isn't some special core player that gets any passes. I'd have hammered him on RFA contract negotiations too. Just because I could. But he's still a decent little player.
I agree to a point, he is overplayed. I am confused at how he got there in the first place (last season's production should have worn off a long time ago)


Last edited by Habiton: 04-24-2013 at 10:18 PM.
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Old
04-24-2013, 10:13 PM
  #384
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I'm ok with DD in general. But accountability and utilization are issues, and that's not really on him. If he isn't producing or missing assignments then he isn't some special core player that gets any passes. I'd have hammered him on RFA contract negotiations too. Just because I could. But he's still a decent little player.

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04-24-2013, 10:20 PM
  #385
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Considering how much time I spent answering you (a whole big fat 35 seconds in 4 posts), versus how much time you spent answering me (much more than 35 seconds), yeah, you're right : the rationnal fan has indeed been chased out.

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Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Anyone care to have a real discussion about DD? Its like I've traveled in time, people are more concerned with how the words are put together versus the words themselves. Its no wonder this board is so bipolar, all of the reasonable and rational fans get chased out.

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Old
04-24-2013, 10:22 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I'm ok with DD in general. But accountability and utilization are issues, and that's not really on him. If he isn't producing or missing assignments then he isn't some special core player that gets any passes. I'd have hammered him on RFA contract negotiations too. Just because I could. But he's still a decent little player.
To be honest... Bergevin wasn't THAT well placed to start hammering him during RFA contract negociations, as DD was a year away from being UFA, and there's a big group of player to renegociate with next sesaon. Starting with Subban.

But yeah, totally agree with everything else (except that very specific point).

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Old
04-24-2013, 10:28 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
To be honest... Bergevin wasn't THAT well placed to start hammering him during RFA contract negociations, as DD was a year away from being UFA, and there's a big group of player to renegociate with next sesaon. Starting with Subban.

But yeah, totally agree with everything else (except that very specific point).
Could have waited, at least. Clearly based on this season DD wasn't going to waltz into arbitration with a lot of ammunition. It might not have played out that way. But it did. Could have waited for that. Could have offered him $7.5M/3yrs. He might have been slightly miffed with that. It's intentionally below market value. But so what, he's a good little player, but miffing him doesn't carry much in the way of consequences. Even if he got some kind of crazy arbitration ruling, it's not binding, and he's non-core and redundant-ish enough to walk. Etc. I would have been pretty ready to play hardball with him. Even while liking him ok as a player. I mean, if you can do it with Subban, indeed you ought to be able to do it with anybody. When you can. Simply because you can.

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04-24-2013, 10:32 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Could have waited, at least. Clearly based on this season DD wasn't going to waltz into arbitration with a lot of ammunition. It might not have played out that way. But it did. Could have waited for that. Could have offered him $7.5M/3yrs. He might have been slightly miffed with that. It's intentionally below market value. But so what, he's a good little player, but miffing him doesn't carry much in the way of consequences. Even if he got some kind of crazy arbitration ruling, it's not binding, and he's non-core and redundant-ish enough to walk. Etc. I would have been pretty ready to play hardball with him. Even while liking him ok as a player. I mean, if you can do it with Subban, indeed you ought to be able to do it with anybody. When you can. Simply because you can.
I wouldn't have hated that deal myself for DD. Maybe it was actually offered to him... we can't tell. Sometimes, I'd like to be there during those negociations. We extrapolate about what should've be done... when it might actually have been tried.

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04-24-2013, 10:38 PM
  #389
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Everyone needs to lay off Drewiskie, he hasn't even played the last two games.

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04-24-2013, 10:39 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
I wouldn't have hated that deal myself for DD. Maybe it was actually offered to him... we can't tell. Sometimes, I'd like to be there during those negociations. We extrapolate about what should've be done... when it might actually have been tried.
I don't think that changes things. You can offer it... and then stick on it. Until the summer, at least. There wasn't pressure to get a deal done today.

All said while liking MB, liking DD, and thinking the deal was "fair", mind you. So just a nitpick.

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04-24-2013, 10:51 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Finally, he's not even #2C. Him and Eller split #2 duties IMO. Only reason DD has more minutes is because of PP. We've gotten more PPs than PKs. If it were other way around, Eller would play more. Do I agree on PP ice time? Not really and I've said this in the past but ES minutes are fairly similar.
Eller's ES icetime and linemates are of a 3rd liner. He actually averaged more last season/game oddly enough. Indeed Desharnais' icetime is reduced compared to last season but he's still well over 13 minutes in ES - which is top 6 (3rd on the Habs).

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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Habs ARE a good team though...honestly, habs could upgrade Plekanec, Eller, Bourque, Prust, Markov, Emelin, etc... So, yes...upgrades will increase the strength of the team on paper. No doubt about it but it's a little much to suggest DD is the problem. Eller at #2 is still a problem anyway. That's why they split duties.
The issue is that DD isn't nearly as versatile and has to be accommodated to optimize his performance rather than him being another piece of the puzzle. I don't think he's worth the accommodation and a more versatile/complete player would be a better fit even if he brings less offense to the table (assuming solid D and can play against good defensive players or offensive players). Never suggested he was the reason the team is losing right now. However, I feel the team would be closer to a true contender if they can get a true #2 center.

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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Offensive matchup sheltered, not defensive matchup sheltered. As we discussed earlier, Eller nor Galchenyuk do good on the road while facing other matchups that DD faces. To the point Galchenyuk goes from 17 points in his "super hard matchups" to 7 points when our coach can't put him in "tough situations". Ironic no?

Advanced stats are nice but still raw. They don't paint entire picture.
We don't exactly know what matchups they face though where, only the overall silhouette of the player tendency. This suggests DD, for 3 years, faces mostly the lowest Corsi players relative to his teammates, plays with mostly the highest Corsi players relative to the team, averages the among most goals against 5 on 5 relative to icetime played. My humble opinion is that the production doesn't make up for the issues.

Although I believe Eller and Galchenyuk can eventually becomes more overall effective top 6 C than DD, they are still 3rd liners at the moment. IMO their top end 3rd line production is a huge reason for the team's success and made up for a lot of the inefficiencies in the top 6.

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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
While I'd love Stastny in DD's place, what happens to the "galchenyuk is ready for #2C next year" whining we always see from others? Will Eller play wing now for Galchenyuk's development? That's what it comes with but yes DD+ for Stastny? Sign me up. I'd love that.
It wouldn't be something that comes with it since it'd be here regardless.

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04-24-2013, 11:01 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk15 View Post
Why the love for DD?

Koivu were never good enough for Montreal Canadiens but DD is?? That's a joke?
Pretty strange declaration. Desharnais fans were likely Koivu fans as well. Koivu haters probably hate Desharnais.

They face the same battles (short height, not very strong or physical, not being goal scorers. you know the less subtle aspects of hockey) and are the same type of players (playmaking centers). Koivu was superior of course, but he was expected to be our no1 center while Desharnais is expected to be our no2.

And I've met Koivu in person, no way in hell he's 5'11''.

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04-24-2013, 11:12 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
If the Habs have a Stastny, Habs don't need Bourque to attempt to have 3 scoring lines (heck if DD is traded for Stastny, I'd assume Bourque is part of the package ). He can play Plekanec type tough minutes and provide better offensive production. His international chemistry/experience with Pacioretty and good faceoff skills would make him perfect for this team. Granted, it's a pipe dream since Avs likely wouldn't want DD or Bourque but IMO he's a perfect fit to making the team a contender.

The issue is he isn't playing a 3rd liner role and isn't versatile enough to be in any other role. With that cap hit and respectable GF/60 5 on 5 comes several negatives from needing to face lower-corsi opposition relative to the rest of the team, having the best corsi linemates relative to rest of the team, leading team in GA/60 5 on 5 2/3 seasons even with the prior two. My assumption is that he also will not be moved to wing. To me the negatives outweigh the positives - at least if the goal is to be a contender. In a vacuum, looking at only his production and cap hit, I can completely understand the idea he can be a long term asset on a good team. However, taking everything into consideration, I can't agree he's a building block piece to keep long term if the team wants to be a contender. I'd prefer a less GF/60 5 on 5 if that C can bring much less GA/60 5 on 5, play tough minutes, and be able to play with anyone.

What has he done on the PP last 3 years that makes him a special presence? Perhaps one of the top players on the Habs, but the Habs had the 28th ranked PP last season when he led the team in PP points. This season the Habs have a 4th ranked PP with little contribution from him point wise.
I think you may be overrating Stastny a little, DD had a better season last year, and is pretty much the same this year. At 6.6m even if Stastny returns to his 75pt form, you'll get more points with Bourque + Desharnais then Stastny + a minimum salary player. Not too mention once Galchenyuk takes over as #1C it comes down to Statsny vs Plekanec and I think I'd go with Plekanec anyways.

You seem to stuck on the idea that a 3rd line has to be a shutdown line. It doesn't. Just look at how we played in the beginning of this year, both the DD line and the Gallys were getting soft minutes. It's doable and we already have all the pieces to make it work. I'm not looking at DD in a vacuum, we have a bunch of very good defensive/2-way players which means it makes a lot of sense to carry an offense first weak defensive player since it won't hurt the team as much.

As for the PP, he's struggled this year and if he can't get back on track that's a problem but given his past I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. Last year he was getting 3.96 points per 60min of PP time. Some guys around him are Kovalchuk, Skinner, Kessel. That's pretty good company.

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04-25-2013, 01:23 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Pretty strange declaration. Desharnais fans were likely Koivu fans as well. Koivu haters probably hate Desharnais.

They face the same battles (short height, not very strong or physical, not being goal scorers. you know the less subtle aspects of hockey) and are the same type of players (playmaking centers). Koivu was superior of course, but he was expected to be our no1 center while Desharnais is expected to be our no2.

And I've met Koivu in person, no way in hell he's 5'11''.
I see your point but there is one big difference though. Koivu had a chance to become an elite 1st C...but never was the same after his injury cycle began. Effectively stunted/squashed/killed his effectiveness. For DD, being in the NHL alone is an accomplishment.

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04-25-2013, 01:41 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
I see your point but there is one big difference though. Koivu had a chance to become an elite 1st C...but never was the same after his injury cycle began. Effectively stunted/squashed/killed his effectiveness. For DD, being in the NHL alone is an accomplishment.
Good observation. I was refering mostly to Koivu post injury, I don't really remember the start of his career well because I was quite young, but one thing that stands out is that before his knee injury he had serious wheels. Like Bure wheels. Something he definitely never recovered.

I think many people simply expect short guys to skate fast. Good positioning, accurate passing and anticipation can do the trick most of the time, after all the puck travels much faster than the guys skate. Sadly these are skills that don't really get noticed and they are not flashy. Koivu would have had far fewer detractors if he kept his speed, Desharnais would be far more appreciated if he was an incredible skater as well.

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04-25-2013, 09:11 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I don't think that changes things. You can offer it... and then stick on it. Until the summer, at least. There wasn't pressure to get a deal done today.

All said while liking MB, liking DD, and thinking the deal was "fair", mind you. So just a nitpick.
No doubt he could have waited for the summer before negotiating. I personally don't think you should start signing players to long term deals when you're in your first year as GM. It is a transitional year and I believe the GM should really take at least one season to assess what he has under his hands.
I mean, the only players you could sign in a transitional year are the ones that you know are sure bets. Ironically enough, the most sure bet player on our team is PK and Bergevin played serious hard ball with him (still don't understand this..).

That being said, I don't think DD's contract is bad, nor is it crippling us. It's still a movable one, even if DD has a bad year.

I'm more disappointed in Therrien for just keeping him in the top 6 as a center when we definitely have options to try other things.
I mean, even last year, I thought keeping DD with MaxPac-Cole was a mistake because we had nothing else on the other lines. They were a great trio, but that's pretty useless when they can't lead you to victories. I rather we tried spreading the wealth and maybe grinding out more wins. Even with very limited options, I wanted to break up that trio.
This year however, we have no shortage of options. To the point where you could possibly have a top 6 player on the 4th line. Our depth might not be the best, but it's definitely there. Plekanec-MaxPac-Eller-Gionta-Bourque-DD-Galla-Gally-Prust-Ryder, can all play in a top 6/9 role (10players), and despite having a rather average/mediocre year, DD has never dropped down in lines, consistently gets PP ice time, and still gets favorable match ups/faceoff starts.
If I recall correctly, early this year, Therrien said Eller had to prove himself this year. He did just that, the kid has had a good year, yet Therrien still doesn't give him PP opportunities.

So, I'm more disappointed wit how Therrien has handled the DD situation (and Eller).

In no way does this warrant the hate DD has gotten on these boards though, some of the things said are just ridiculous. Classic HF I guess.

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04-25-2013, 09:14 AM
  #397
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It's not because you need to upgrade that re-signing him was a mistake.

What's the problem if he gets moved down to the 3rd line next year as a winger next to Galchenyuk and another big winger while still producing around 40-50pts?

His contract is perfect for what he could provide, offensive depth in the top 9.

In any event, his contract is movable.

A mistake is trading for Kaberle. A mistake is trading for Gomez. A mistake is signing George Laraque, or Gionta to 5M, etc..
Re-signing a 50-60pt player to 3.5M is not a mistake. Maybe you would have preferred to just let him walk, and upgrade (nothing prevents upgrading btw), but it's not an actual mistake.
The only way this becomes a mistake is if DD starts sucking some more and becomes a crap 3rd liner who puts up 30pts and actually hurts us. We'll see if that happens, but I seriously doubt it will.
45 points with third line minutes?

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04-25-2013, 09:42 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
45 points with third line minutes?
Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are all on pace for that total over a full season, this with very little PP time as well. I don't see why it would be impossible for DD to do it.

You can be on a third line and still produce decently well. If you're paring up against weaker opponents, then you will spend most of your time in their zone, and if you have offensively skilled players on that third line, they'll produce.
Now, I know you'll come back with the defensive duties of that line, however if we have two top lines capable of playing solid defensively with Plek and Eller centering them, then they'll end up getting the heavier match ups anyways.

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04-25-2013, 09:52 AM
  #399
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
And I've met Koivu in person, no way in hell he's 5'11''.
Regardless of what someone may have typed somewhere, you know, of course, that Saku is actually listed as 5'10" everywhere, right; not 5'11". Seems like a small difference, but as someone who is 5'11 himself, it's pretty easy for me to tell the difference between those who are 5'10" and those who are 6'; despite only being an inch in either direction.

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Old
04-25-2013, 11:45 AM
  #400
WakeUpNHL
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are all on pace for that total over a full season, this with very little PP time as well. I don't see why it would be impossible for DD to do it.

You can be on a third line and still produce decently well. If you're paring up against weaker opponents, then you will spend most of your time in their zone, and if you have offensively skilled players on that third line, they'll produce.
Now, I know you'll come back with the defensive duties of that line, however if we have two top lines capable of playing solid defensively with Plek and Eller centering them, then they'll end up getting the heavier match ups anyways.
This whole argument is sophistry at it's best... sounds plausible but is totally fallacious. DD is not and will never be an effective third liner center or winger. Way too soft AND too slow a player to be of any effective use on a contending team.

Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are on pace for 45-50 points because these two rookies have first line type talent and grit... attributes DD lacks. Eller is a speedy physical beast, that can be a top 3rd line center in the NHL, again all attributes lacking in your darling DD.

I am sure that Bergevin regrets that signing now and will look at the first opportune moment to ship DD out to some bottom rung NHL team.

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