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2013 NHL Draft Part 3 (Flyers own the 11th overall pick)

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04-25-2013, 09:03 AM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I'm pretty well sold on the Ristolainen pick--I had read good things about him a month or so back, but then I thought we were going to be picking in a range that wouldn't really make sense for him (5-7 or so). At this point, we'll probably be a bit lucky to pick 10th, which is right around where he is projected to go. But I think he's a great fit--short-term (regarded as near NHL-ready) and long-term (PPQB, steadying influence on the play, RH shot).

Of course, this means that there's absolutely no chance we'll draft him...
Is Risto a physical guy? I have heard a lot about his game but I don't remember hearing if he is physical or not. It wouldn't influence my picking him because I think the Flyers are physical enough on the blueline (Schenn, Grossmann, potentially Lauridsen on the bottom pair).

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04-25-2013, 09:07 AM
  #127
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Would anyone do this or something a long the lines of this.

Trade next year's first, Couturier, and this year's second for #1 overall.

Trade Read and next year's second for CBJ's highest pick.

Draft Jones #1, Risto with the Flyers pick, Mantha with CBJ's pick.

Just curious. Not saying I would do this (or that the other teams would). Just don't have much to do at work right now and throwing it out there. Haha.

Hartnell-G-Voracek
Simmonds-Schenn-Mantha
Gagne-Laughton-UFA/Cousins/McGinn
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot
Rosehill

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Jones
Grossmann-Mez
Huskins

Next year Risto makes the jump and replaces Mez.

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04-25-2013, 09:21 AM
  #128
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Is Risto a physical guy? I have heard a lot about his game but I don't remember hearing if he is physical or not. It wouldn't influence my picking him because I think the Flyers are physical enough on the blueline (Schenn, Grossmann, potentially Lauridsen on the bottom pair).
From what I've read, he's not overly physical, no. But he doesn't shy away from contact either. In other words, he'll probably never go out of his way to throw a big check to change the momentum of a game, but he can use his size adequately in the course of defending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Would anyone do this or something a long the lines of this.

Trade next year's first, Couturier, and this year's second for #1 overall.

Trade Read and next year's second for CBJ's highest pick.

Draft Jones #1, Risto with the Flyers pick, Mantha with CBJ's pick.
That wouldn't be enough for the #1 overall, honestly. I'm not sure our pick (say, 10th) + Couturier is enough to get up there either--but its not a price I'd want the team to play.

As for the Read thing--I'm firmly against trading him. I think he's our most underrated forward, and incredibly valuable. I keep him and try to re-sign him. If you can't, then deal him as a rental in season. Whatever Mantha's potential, it is far from certain that he ever matches Read's offensive production (25-25-50), let alone his strong two-way play.

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04-25-2013, 09:34 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Would anyone do this or something a long the lines of this.

Trade next year's first, Couturier, and this year's second for #1 overall.

Trade Read and next year's second for CBJ's highest pick.

Draft Jones #1, Risto with the Flyers pick, Mantha with CBJ's pick.

Just curious. Not saying I would do this (or that the other teams would). Just don't have much to do at work right now and throwing it out there. Haha.

Hartnell-G-Voracek
Simmonds-Schenn-Mantha
Gagne-Laughton-UFA/Cousins/McGinn
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot
Rosehill

Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Jones
Grossmann-Mez
Huskins

Next year Risto makes the jump and replaces Mez.
Trading Couturier to put more rookies in the lineup isn't a good idea IMO. Laughton will not be able to replace Couturier next year. He is not as talented and he will have to go thru the same growing pains Couturier just went thru and continues to go thru. The same goes for Mantha who might not even be NHL ready and Jones. One of the biggest problems with this years Flyers was that it was too young; B.Schenn and Couturier were put into roles they weren't ready for. Same thing happened with Richards and Carter in 2007. Hopefully Schenn and Couturier will be breaking thru at some point next year. Doesn't make sense to reboot so to speak with new rookies and have to wait another 2-3 years thur their growing pains.

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Old
04-25-2013, 10:11 AM
  #130
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At this point if I am Holmgren I am not trading Giroux, Couts, B. Schenn, L. Schenn, Voracek, or simmonds. If there was a deal to be worked out for the number one pick not involving any of them I would most likely do it. I have said before that I would do 2013 1st + 2014 1st + Read or Coburn for #1 overall. It might be overpayment on our behalf but I still don't know if that would get it done for a team like Florida. But if it did we would have

Schenn-Giroux-Voracek
Harntell-Couts-FA/Read
Gagne-Laughton-Simmonds
Talbot-Hall-Rinaldo
Rosehill

Timonen-Jones
FA/Coburn-Schenn
Grossmann-Gus

Mason
Bryz

So at that point all we would need is either a top 9 forward or a defenseman. Don't really think Florida would do it, but it would be something I would be comfortable with

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04-25-2013, 10:12 AM
  #131
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i would do this years first, Couturier and Coburn for the 1st overall. i want jones that much.

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04-25-2013, 10:12 AM
  #132
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Lots of players break out in their third years, e.g. Mike Richards.

We should hold on to B Schenn and Couturier and let them grow.

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04-25-2013, 10:16 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Lots of players break out in their third years, e.g. Mike Richards.

We should hold on to B Schenn and Couturier and let them grow.
IMO its not about letting couturier grow. it's about the fact that we have a logjam at his position and a deficiency on the back end.

letting players grow doesn't change the fact that we need young defenseman to grow with this team as well to be successful in the future, just look at the cup winners in the past, what, 8 years? they all have defenseman that were drafted or developed by the team that were major contributors to their cups.

IMO not every one of Schenn, Couturier and Laughton will reach their potential without adequate playing time and responsibility. they're not going to get that here all competing with one another for ice time.

someone needs to go in my opinion.

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04-25-2013, 10:16 AM
  #134
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I would trade Laughton but not couturier. I think Couts is going to be a very important player for us in the future. Actually he already is defensively but be should be getting some better linemates next season and I think we will really see what we have then. That's not to say I'm not high on Laughton I just wouldn't let him get in the way of me getting jones

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04-25-2013, 10:28 AM
  #135
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Couturier should be the second line center and Schenn should play wing, and they should draft Ristolainen.

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04-25-2013, 10:30 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Couturier should be the second line center and Schenn should play wing, and they should draft Ristolainen.
I definitely would like to see Schenn on the Wing and Couts as the second line center. Would like to see Schenn play LW, not RW, with either Giroux or Couts.

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04-25-2013, 10:30 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
IMO its not about letting couturier grow. it's about the fact that we have a logjam at his position and a deficiency on the back end.

letting players grow doesn't change the fact that we need young defenseman to grow with this team as well to be successful in the future, just look at the cup winners in the past, what, 8 years? they all have defenseman that were drafted or developed by the team that were major contributors to their cups.

IMO not every one of Schenn, Couturier and Laughton will reach their potential without adequate playing time and responsibility. they're not going to get that here all competing with one another for ice time.

someone needs to go in my opinion.
This. I am not saying get rid of the guy because he isn't good or won't be good, I am saying the same thing as you. There is a ton of talent at the Center position on this team (now and in the pipe). There is little to no talent on the back end. If a guy can be traded to fill the defensive needs (or for a pick to draft that guy), I think you do it. I'm not advocating just trading him to trade him, but I think if you can upgrade the blue line in exchange for Couturier, you do it.

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04-25-2013, 10:36 AM
  #138
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The question is, is Rist even ready to play in the NHL off the bat or would he need another year overseas/in the AHL?

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04-25-2013, 10:37 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
This. I am not saying get rid of the guy because he isn't good or won't be good, I am saying the same thing as you. There is a ton of talent at the Center position on this team (now and in the pipe). There is little to no talent on the back end. If a guy can be traded to fill the defensive needs (or for a pick to draft that guy), I think you do it. I'm not advocating just trading him to trade him, but I think if you can upgrade the blue line in exchange for Couturier, you do it.
exactly.

i like couturier, a lot actually. but the fact is that with giroux and schenn ahead of him in the organizations eyes, i don't believe he's going to reach his potential here, and laughton is capable of stepping in and playing in the 3rd line c role next year, and actually might be more effective in that role long term.

i don't WANT to trade couturier just to make a move. i think that if you can get a very good young defenseman with a similar ceiling or package him for the #1 pick and get jones it would be a tremendous move for this team.

with Giroux, Schenn and Laughton down the middle for the foreseeable future and jones and schenn on the backend for the forseeable future, we'd be in a very healthy position.

i'd rather watch 3 good young centers and a young potential elite defenseman grow, than 4 good young centers and then continue to complain about how we don't have a building block on the back end.

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04-25-2013, 11:01 AM
  #140
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The question is, is Rist even ready to play in the NHL off the bat or would he need another year overseas/in the AHL?
http://www.isshockey.com/iss-top-30-released-for-april/

ISS Top 30 Roundup
#10 Rasmus Ristolainen
Every bit as NHL ready as Jones. Very mature & reliable defender who can do a bit of everything

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04-25-2013, 11:03 AM
  #141
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The question is, is Rist even ready to play in the NHL off the bat or would he need another year overseas/in the AHL?
From what I've read, him and Zadorov could play in the NHL next year.

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04-25-2013, 11:12 AM
  #142
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If we got Rist, and considering all his goals are wristers (from what I've seen of videos), what should we call it? Risters? Just thinking random thoughts .

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04-25-2013, 11:14 AM
  #143
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Hunter Shinkaruk

If we do not trade our number 1 pick or trade down and our pick turns out to be 10 or 11 is anyone adverse to Hunter Shinkaruk? Think Mat Read at a higher level; faster, slightly bigger, extremely high hockey IQ, and seems like a really good student of the game. He is captain and goes against the best D men. He would add speed to compliment Giroux on the top line. Though one draftnik says he can be taken off the puck, but the highlights I have seen, he gets back up and gets the puck back........he is soooo quick and soooo shifty. I know everyone wants a D man, but after the first few [ if all the really good ones are taken before 8-11], it pretty much evens out until around 40-50th pick. Though for forwards it seems lots of people like Anthony Mantha. Though the speediest dude, super quick hands in the Q is Laurent Dauphin....no question....but can be taken off the puck but unlike Hunter who gets mad as heck and retreives the puck he lost, Laurent does not seem to pursue and kind of gives up.

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04-25-2013, 11:25 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
From what I've read, him and Zadorov could play in the NHL next year.
I wonder if they would play though. They may be ready to play in the NHL right away, but I'm not so sure that they would, given the recent history of not developing defensive prospects very well. They may be hesitant to throw a guy right into the mix without ever playing professionally in NA. Just a thought.

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04-25-2013, 11:32 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by macleish1974 View Post
If we do not trade our number 1 pick or trade down and our pick turns out to be 10 or 11 is anyone adverse to Hunter Shinkaruk? Think Mat Read at a higher level; faster, slightly bigger, extremely high hockey IQ, and seems like a really good student of the game. He is captain and goes against the best D men. He would add speed to compliment Giroux on the top line. Though one draftnik says he can be taken off the puck, but the highlights I have seen, he gets back up and gets the puck back........he is soooo quick and soooo shifty. I know everyone wants a D man, but after the first few [ if all the really good ones are taken before 8-11], it pretty much evens out until around 40-50th pick. Though for forwards it seems lots of people like Anthony Mantha. Though the speediest dude, super quick hands in the Q is Laurent Dauphin....no question....but can be taken off the puck but unlike Hunter who gets mad as heck and retreives the puck he lost, Laurent does not seem to pursue and kind of gives up.
I mentioned earlier that Shinkaruk probably looks more interesting to the Flyers than many suspect. And a high-end Read is basically a prime Briere. Though I'm not sure Shinkaruk will ever drop a 90-point bomb on the NHL, he's a real shifty player.

That said, if we get rid of Briere and Bryz, Read can stay. No real need for Shinkaruk.

Besides, there's a few wingers we can look for with our 2nd round pick. If anyone can pull off a golden forward out of the early 2nd round, it's the Flyers. This year runs deep on forwards, and I think the Flyers are licking their chops.

That said though, it's time to bite the bullet. We're not getting Jones or Nurse.

Ristolainen is not as shiny, but he could get the chance to work with Timonen for one year. He'd make a great partner for Grossmann or Coburn.

I say we get a vet PMD like Streit, draft Ristolainen (or Nurse or Jones), let our draft pick battle Gustafsson, watch Gostisbehere carefully, keep an eye on Stolarz, keep our defense in tact, sign Eriksson, and let Mason battle Bryzgalov for the future of our net. (When Bryz loses at the end of next season, buy him out.)

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04-25-2013, 11:44 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Is Risto a physical guy? I have heard a lot about his game but I don't remember hearing if he is physical or not. It wouldn't influence my picking him because I think the Flyers are physical enough on the blueline (Schenn, Grossmann, potentially Lauridsen on the bottom pair).
Risto is a physical defender and he's also got a mean streak. Now, he won't go out of his way to run over someone, but he's incredibly smart as to when to use the body or lower the boom. As mentioned, he's got a mean streak though and usually if throws a good hit early in the game, that mean streak can become incredibly pronounced.

Desjardins was very similar in that he was physical when he needed to be and he also had a mean streak as well. Desjardins was more stick work mean than Risto. I have to admit, the more I watch Risto and the more I see him play against men in Finland and how he holds his own, the more I warm up to the idea of him being a Flyer.

I think because I watch the North Americans more, I have a tendency to be more biased. I'd really love to do some European scouting because I think it really it is a bit of a different experience in terms of how players develop and a lot of the Elite leagues the kids play in, they're already facing men and holding their own.

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04-25-2013, 11:47 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Couturier should be the second line center and Schenn should play wing, and they should draft Ristolainen.
x 3.

Giroux wasn't right to start the season--I don't think we read Schenn's slow start at wing to mean that he can't make the conversion work.

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04-25-2013, 11:51 AM
  #148
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x 3.

Giroux wasn't right to start the season--I don't think we read Schenn's slow start at wing to mean that he can't make the conversion work.
I really think Schenn can be a Bobby Ryan-esque player on the wing.

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek could be a magical line.

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04-25-2013, 11:55 AM
  #149
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I really think Schenn can be a Bobby Ryan-esque player on the wing.

Schenn - Giroux - Voracek could be a magical line.
Schenn doesn't have the overall skill that Bobby Ryan has. That's not a knock on Schenn, but Ryan has some of the softer hands in the league. They play two different games as well. Schenn is at his best when he is physical while Ryan is at his best when he is in the open ice and has the puck on his stick.

Schenn has skill, we have all seen it, but not the skill level Ryan has.

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04-25-2013, 11:57 AM
  #150
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I mentioned earlier that Shinkaruk probably looks more interesting to the Flyers than many suspect. And a high-end Read is basically a prime Briere. Though I'm not sure Shinkaruk will ever drop a 90-point bomb on the NHL, he's a real shifty player.
Really? Briere was a defensively valuable player during his prime? Or are you just speaking in terms of offense?

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