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04-25-2013, 01:57 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by canadiensnation View Post
I don't mind Randy Tieman.
Randy "Awe Shucks" And Other Stuff Like That.

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04-25-2013, 01:57 PM
  #52
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If he's not out of gas, he's one of the few guys we have left that hits. I really don't mind his veteran presence when used correctly. I bet he'd win a race with LJV.
This seems to be a lot of what people don't understand. Weber and Boullion aren't in competition with one another for a roster spot. They're different breeds with different roles to play. Our blueline breaks down into three groups - puck movers (Markov, Diaz, Weber and to a lesser extent Kaberle and Beaulieu), two-way guys (Subban, Gorges, Drewiskie and to a lesser extent Pateryn) and physical guys (Emelin, Boullion and to a lesser extent Tinordi). Now these buckets aren't perfect - Subban is clearly an elite puck moving defenseman as well as being a reliable two way player (and he can be physical too) - but that's why he's up for the Norris this season. You need, roughly speaking, two players from each group - thus Markov/Diaz from the puck movers, Subban/Gorges from the two way guys and, in an injury free world, Emelin/Boullion from the physical guys. With Emelin out we've had to change it up. We have no natural means of replacing him. Tinordi is young, better to let him get better in Hamilton. So you take a PMD or a 2-way guy and hope for the best.

Shocker - since Emelin's been down it hasn't been "the best". So we adjust try something different. However getting rid of one of our hitting, defensive guys to be replaced by an offensive, soft Weber is not wise.

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04-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #53
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Budaj on Saturday night ?
No chance IMO.

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04-25-2013, 02:12 PM
  #54
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This seems to be a lot of what people don't understand. Weber and Boullion aren't in competition with one another for a roster spot. They're different breeds with different roles to play. Our blueline breaks down into three groups - puck movers (Markov, Diaz, Weber and to a lesser extent Kaberle and Beaulieu), two-way guys (Subban, Gorges, Drewiskie and to a lesser extent Pateryn) and physical guys (Emelin, Boullion and to a lesser extent Tinordi). Now these buckets aren't perfect - Subban is clearly an elite puck moving defenseman as well as being a reliable two way player (and he can be physical too) - but that's why he's up for the Norris this season. You need, roughly speaking, two players from each group - thus Markov/Diaz from the puck movers, Subban/Gorges from the two way guys and, in an injury free world, Emelin/Boullion from the physical guys. With Emelin out we've had to change it up. We have no natural means of replacing him. Tinordi is young, better to let him get better in Hamilton. So you take a PMD or a 2-way guy and hope for the best.

Shocker - since Emelin's been down it hasn't been "the best". So we adjust try something different. However getting rid of one of our hitting, defensive guys to be replaced by an offensive, soft Weber is not wise.
I'm a big fan of Emelin's, but the point is still do you play Boullion or LJV. Markov, Subban, Gorges, Diaz and Tinordi are certainly in. That leaves Boullion and LJV. How is that not in direct competition?

You seem to be arguing that Tinordi is out, but he's not. He's in, so the choice is between the above. I was also of the mindset that Tinordi was better kept in the AHL despite me believing in him, only cuz he's not had much time with the team and has 2 games left, BUT he is a lot of what we need given Emelin's absence so given that he's here, I'm "appy".

While I think LJV has been good, if we need someone who can wear down opponents and clear the crease as well as be good on the PK, Tinordi fits the bill.

If I'm not wrong, you are basically questioning Tinordi being in, correct?

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04-25-2013, 02:12 PM
  #55
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Since everybody in our division is losing the habs still have a change of winning this and it could be nice and important in the end.

First game I can watch since quite some time time now, because of my finals, so just win.

Go habs go !

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04-25-2013, 02:21 PM
  #56
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go habs go (Probably our only hope)

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04-25-2013, 02:26 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by PyrettaBlaze View Post
Tinordi in, Weber out.

Price starting.
Of course, take the young guy and and keep playing your Buddy Bouillon who is the one that should be in the press box

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04-25-2013, 02:28 PM
  #58
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It's the team 690. They're all bad.
Marinaro is probably the worst, with Noel Butler a close second. I barely get one out of every 5 words Butler is spewing. Brutal.

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04-25-2013, 02:32 PM
  #59
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I'm a big fan of Emelin's, but the point is still do you play Boullion or LJV. Markov, Subban, Gorges, Diaz and Tinordi are certainly in. That leaves Boullion and LJV. How is that not in direct competition?

You seem to be arguing that Tinordi is out, but he's not. He's in, so the choice is between the above. I was also of the mindset that Tinordi was better kept in the AHL despite me believing in him, only cuz he's not had much time with the team and has 2 games left, BUT he is a lot of what we need given Emelin's absence so given that he's here, I'm "appy".

While I think LJV has been good, if we need someone who can wear down opponents and clear the crease as well as be good on the PK, Tinordi fits the bill.

If I'm not wrong, you are basically questioning Tinordi being in, correct?
Nope. I'm saying we need two "Emelin/Tinordi/Boullion-type" players in the lineup. We have been playing with one. Now there's no hard and fast rules about this type and that type and because the buckets are a little vague you could always argue about making a go of it with other lineup arrangements. But we've tried that and it has been hurting us.

For LJV to make the lineup on a consistent basis he has to take a role from Diaz or Markov (or change his game so that he can play a Gorges or an Emelin type role - that, of course, is significantly less likely at this stage, but not impossible). If we want to move Boullion out of the lineup on a full time basis Tinordi has to step up and prove he can stick (and tbh he's not that far out) or one of the other guys needs to add a more physical aspect to his game.

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04-25-2013, 02:32 PM
  #60
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04-25-2013, 02:34 PM
  #61
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Of course, take the young guy and and keep playing your Buddy Bouillon who is the one that should be in the press box
How many times are people going to have to explain the fact that they do not fill the same role on this team?

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04-25-2013, 02:37 PM
  #62
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Tinordi could win himself a permanent place on the team, if during those two games and the playoffs he play a solid game like he did when first called and add more physicality in his game (especially on the front of the net). I believe that he can do it.

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04-25-2013, 02:40 PM
  #63
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Tinordi needs to add 15-20 lbs. to his frame during the off season. His shutdown ability would be greatly enhanced.

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04-25-2013, 02:43 PM
  #64
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Nope. I'm saying we need two "Emelin/Tinordi/Boullion-type" players in the lineup. We have been playing with one. Now there's no hard and fast rules about this type and that type and because the buckets are a little vague you could always argue about making a go of it with other lineup arrangements. But we've tried that and it has been hurting us.

For LJV to make the lineup on a consistent basis he has to take a role from Diaz or Markov (or change his game so that he can play a Gorges or an Emelin type role - that, of course, is significantly less likely at this stage, but not impossible). If we want to move Boullion out of the lineup on a full time basis Tinordi has to step up and prove he can stick (and tbh he's not that far out) or one of the other guys needs to add a more physical aspect to his game.
Bouillon being able to hit is not a significantly important feature of his because he does not win puck battles even with his alleged and overrated hitting prowess. Rather than try to replace Emelin with a smaller, much crappier, not as offensively aware substitute, it is better to use an equivalently crappy Dman who can at least do something well, in which Weber can in running the 2nd wave PP. Bouillon is terribly overrated because he got Subban alot this season and playing with Subban makes even the worst of Dmen look decent. Weber never had such a luxury.

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04-25-2013, 02:44 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
No chance IMO.
Budaj will play Saturday night if Price wins tonight and plays a solid game.

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04-25-2013, 02:46 PM
  #66
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Nope. I'm saying we need two "Emelin/Tinordi/Boullion-type" players in the lineup. We have been playing with one. Now there's no hard and fast rules about this type and that type and because the buckets are a little vague you could always argue about making a go of it with other lineup arrangements. But we've tried that and it has been hurting us.

For LJV to make the lineup on a consistent basis he has to take a role from Diaz or Markov (or change his game so that he can play a Gorges or an Emelin type role - that, of course, is significantly less likely at this stage, but not impossible). If we want to move Boullion out of the lineup on a full time basis Tinordi has to step up and prove he can stick (and tbh he's not that far out) or one of the other guys needs to add a more physical aspect to his game.
So I guess you're suggesting Tinordi and LJV in and Boullion out IF Tinordi showed he was the real deal right now. Hard to put that much pressure on a rookie and the eternal healthy scratch.

I happen to like the fact that Boullion is in the lineup because if you look at him before the Emelin injury, he was making an impact. He can carry the puck up, is decently quick and if the team is not in a mad scramble, is actually effective at using his bowling ball stature. I'm not saying I am totally against what you're proposing, but Tinordi is too green to completely replace Boullion with Emelin out. If we had Emelin, I could see what you're proposing. Either way, it's MT, so we know what's going to happen.

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04-25-2013, 02:46 PM
  #67
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This thread is in dire need of jet ski dog.
Even though this is not a home game, jetski dog is back to warrant us a convincing W

Go Habs Go!
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04-25-2013, 02:49 PM
  #68
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I'm a big fan of Emelin's, but the point is still do you play Boullion or LJV. Markov, Subban, Gorges, Diaz and Tinordi are certainly in. That leaves Boullion and LJV. How is that not in direct competition?

You seem to be arguing that Tinordi is out, but he's not. He's in, so the choice is between the above. I was also of the mindset that Tinordi was better kept in the AHL despite me believing in him, only cuz he's not had much time with the team and has 2 games left, BUT he is a lot of what we need given Emelin's absence so given that he's here, I'm "appy".

While I think LJV has been good, if we need someone who can wear down opponents and clear the crease as well as be good on the PK, Tinordi fits the bill.

If I'm not wrong, you are basically questioning Tinordi being in, correct?
I know you're responding to idk, but I have a little comment to make.

Emelin was good at "digging" out the puck for Markov. Bouillon is not, it seems, because he is not paired with Markov. I don't see how Weber is worse than Bouillon at moving the puck for Tinordi. And I don't like Weber either. He's weak on his skates and falls down easily. But hell, he's not that worse than Bouillon and could give the 2nd PP wave some freaking life.

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04-25-2013, 02:50 PM
  #69
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Tinordi needs to add 15-20 lbs. to his frame during the off season. His shutdown ability would be greatly enhanced.
Isn't he at 6'6 218 lbs ?

Pronger played all his career at 6'6 220 lbs...

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04-25-2013, 02:50 PM
  #70
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Budaj will play Saturday night if Price wins tonight and plays a solid game.
I hope they don't. I get the logic (sheltering Price, essentially) but I don't like the thought that we're on the doorstep of the post-season and still having to protect our #1 goalie from scary match-ups.

Similarly if we play Price Saturday and he does well against the Leafs, that could be a big boost going into the playoffs against them. Rather than him having memories of the last time he played them still in his head.

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04-25-2013, 02:52 PM
  #71
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Budaj will play Saturday night if Price wins tonight and plays a solid game.
Very possible, but I would consider the following:

- We almost certainly need to win the last game to have a chance at the division.

- If the Leafs stay in 5th and us in 4th (if Petey can't pull out a win), Price would be going into the series reeling from the last loss. Not sure if that's good for him or the confidence of the team. He has to redeem himself against the leafs whether we're playing them or not in the first round.

- I don't think rest is an issue for him. Hasn't been too brutal of a schedule for him with Budaj helping out.

- Playing two solid games is far more reassuring than one. Look what happened after Tampa. He needs two wins going into the playoffs IMO. I totally trust Budaj to beat the Leafs, but for Carey's confidence, might be a good thing to play them. If he blows it, well we're screwed either way unless he somehow recovers two days later and for the rest of that series.

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04-25-2013, 02:54 PM
  #72
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Isn't he at 6'6 218 lbs ?

Pronger played all his career at 6'6 220 lbs...
Players' vitals on the net, are a real quagmire.

Elite prospects has him at 203 lbs.: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=20706

Other sites vary.

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04-25-2013, 02:55 PM
  #73
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Even though this is not a home game, jetski dog is back to warrant us a convincing W

Go Habs Go!
/



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Finally He's back!!!!!!!!!!!!

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04-25-2013, 02:55 PM
  #74
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Players' vitals on the net, are a real quagmire.

Elite prospects has him at 203 lbs.: http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=20706

Other sites vary.
Elite prospects is the worst all their weight stats are outdated.

The one I used is the AHL stats which is surely the most recent one.

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04-25-2013, 03:01 PM
  #75
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I know you're responding to idk, but I have a little comment to make.

Emelin was good at "digging" out the puck for Markov. Bouillon is not, it seems, because he is not paired with Markov. I don't see how Weber is worse than Bouillon at moving the puck for Tinordi. And I don't like Weber either. He's weak on his skates and falls down easily. But hell, he's not that worse than Bouillon and could give the 2nd PP wave some freaking life.
Well second PP is Diaz and while I agree that him + LJV packs a bigger punch, I'm not sure those specific mainly shooters are the best combo. Cube isn't that bad on the PP. When it's him and Gorges, it's horrrible, but IMO cuz of Gorges. Boullion can feed Diaz.

As for digging the puck out, Boullion and LJV seem to be equally good (or bad) at it ATM, but as much as this sounds like MT, I think Boullion brings some intangibles including experience that Weber doesn't. I actually think the latter has played well since his insertion into the lineup, I just don't know what Tinordi - LJV would look like. That's why I wish we had tried this stuff earlier instead. Unfortunately the auditions during good times + LJV's injury prevented us from testing it out.

If we are going to be more physical, Boullion hits, Weber does not. Has to be bottom pairing and minimal minutes though. Would love to see Tinordi and LJV both in, but no time.

Just remember that bringing in Boullion was one of the "great small moves" MB was praised for by all media before things went south so IMO it's about usage.

Our PP sucks because of our fwds, not our D. (Though lately Markov and PK have been flubbing it at the blueline.)

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