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If you had to choose: Trade Schneider or Buy-Out Luongo?

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Old
04-25-2013, 02:51 PM
  #201
Cogburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Leafer, missed ya in these threads.



Aye, which is why I wrote Dreger off. It's a pretty big difference between what he said before. I could have lived with this offer, although I might have tried to get a different but similar tier prospect to Colborne. If this is in any way accurate, I suppose Gillis did not bite since MacArthur may struggle to keep up with MayRay on the third line.
Glad I wasn't the only one.

And yes! Dreger just seemed to have lost it with his two seconds and Scrivens talk. That deal would have been bareable, compared to whats thrown around here, but still a "meh" compared to what I'd have hoped for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospector74 View Post
And if that is the case, I'm for trading Miller and moving on. That is too much coin tied up in a goalie. Miller has done a lot for Buffalo but I feel he is overpaid at $6.25M now for what he has brought the last few seasons. I would only be willing to pay that type of money for a guy like Hasek in his prime years. Miller is a step below that - still above average but not someone I would see as the heart of a team that needs to be retained at all costs. This is not a knock on Miller.

Back to the thread: I think with Miller potentially available and a number of other goalies out there as options (Bryz might get bought out in addition to the UFA's out there - say all you want about Bryz but if my options are Luongo forever or Bryz short term and cheap and I'm not an elite team I'm going with Bryz), that what is offered for Luongo will be next to nothing. If the Canucks want to get rid of his salary...okay but there won't me much/if any return. If they want real assets back, you will need to trade Schneider.
Miller is often mentioned as another phenominal goalie, maybe top 5, definately top 10, so I don't think 6.25 is an overpayment. At least when it comes to say Luongo is top 5, at least top 10. So 6.25, even with a falling cap, shouldn't be considered overpayment, looking at the other top flight goalies.

I agree that Schneider will get the better return, but look at the life span of GMs in this league...Luongo's contract will outlive theirs, and that will be for the next guy to deal with if it doesn't work out. That being said, for a team, like say Vancouver, that will be affected by the cap crunch, 5.33 for a top tier goalie, even considering the future implications, would have to be worth something, rather then rolling the dice on Miller and what he will get and where he will sign. Not all good goalies are going to sign Vokoun-esque contracts to rebound, look at the Rinnes, the Lundquists, the Prices, and even lesser goalies like Backstrom, Howard or Kipper (lesser due to the contract status).

Miller, and other UFAs of his calibre, will command serious money, and great goalies signed to good, short term, contracts aren't for sale. That in and of its self means there is some market for Lu.

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04-25-2013, 02:56 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I wasn't saying he'd be dealt to TO, i was saying he could be dealt to a number of locations if the price is low enough. FLA will happily take him on the cheap. They got clearence from management last season to take the contract. Markstrom has been ok, but not lights out.

And ya, Winnepeg, Jersey, Buffalo may all become players.
Which means the price goes up, no?

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04-25-2013, 03:00 PM
  #203
Vankiller Whale
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Where are you getting your stats?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

That's where I'm getting mine
Go to NHL leaders -> All Stats. Otherewise you get guys with 1 GP and such.

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04-25-2013, 03:02 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Vorkosh View Post
Bwahaha.

I mean jesus, I know you're happy you're finally in the playoffs after 9 years and Reimer helped get you there, but claiming he's a top 10 goalie is like saying Dan Cloutier is a perennial Vezina candidate
The Leafs are at the bottom of the league in the difference between shots on goal vs. shots at the other team's goal. Without Riemer, there is no way they make the play-offs. He should get credit for taking a somewhat weaker team to the playoffs.

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04-25-2013, 04:18 PM
  #205
Liferleafer
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Which means the price goes up, no?
If you think the price is going up.....you will be looking at Luongo in a Nucks uniform next season as well. Gillis played the "high price" card and lost. One of your goalies HAS to be moved this off season, i don"t think Gillis pkays the waiting game this time.

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04-25-2013, 05:12 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
If you think the price is going up.....you will be looking at Luongo in a Nucks uniform next season as well. Gillis played the "high price" card and lost. One of your goalies HAS to be moved this off season, i don"t think Gillis pkays the waiting game this time.
Gillis waiting to trade Luongo, expecting a better return is something he feels is best for the organization in both the near and long term. The return this summer, with more teams involved, will certainly garner more in trade then having only one interested partner.

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04-26-2013, 01:11 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Gillis waiting to trade Luongo, expecting a better return is something he feels is best for the organization in both the near and long term. The return this summer, with more teams involved, will certainly garner more in trade then having only one interested partner.
Think Winnipeg might be interested?

Two season in a row now they've just barely missed while having sub-par goaltending.

Also, was reading a Hockey News today and it said that Luongo could just refuse to report which would give the team a chance to void his contract...couldn't he just make an agreement to do that in 5 years (under the table of course) which would make his contract a good value again?


Last edited by DJOpus: 04-26-2013 at 01:39 AM.
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04-26-2013, 07:40 AM
  #208
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I don't think teams want to risk getting punished for cap circumvention.

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04-26-2013, 08:07 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Gillis waiting to trade Luongo, expecting a better return is something he feels is best for the organization in both the near and long term. The return this summer, with more teams involved, will certainly garner more in trade then having only one interested partner.
Gillis couldn't deal Luongo period. He had no takers. Just by Luongos expressions and attitude this was clear and apparent. That frustration didn't help with gaining any lleverage either.
The Summer is the worst time to deal him because these so called teams will have more options.

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04-26-2013, 09:27 AM
  #210
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People still think that there are teams that want that contract?

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04-26-2013, 09:48 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Gillis waiting to trade Luongo, expecting a better return is something he feels is best for the organization in both the near and long term. The return this summer, with more teams involved, will certainly garner more in trade then having only one interested partner.
You're ignoring the fact that other goalies will be available which will affect price.

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04-26-2013, 09:50 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by TheGooooch View Post
People still think that there are teams that want that contract?
Especially with the cap coming down!

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04-26-2013, 10:51 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
Especially with the cap coming down!
his cap hit is quite reasonable, it would be about the length and possible penalties for cap circumvention in the future that would be of concern, not the salary cap itself for next year

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04-26-2013, 01:04 PM
  #214
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Gillis waiting to trade Luongo, expecting a better return is something he feels is best for the organization in both the near and long term. The return this summer, with more teams involved, will certainly garner more in trade then having only one interested partner.
Maybe, but for each team looking for a goalie....another goalie hits the market.

Philly: Reported they will not buy out Bryz
Buffalo: Miller hits the market
Winnepeg: Pavelic hits the market
Caps: Youngsters have proven they can play
Devils: Still have Marty signed for another year
FLA: This is were i think Lu goes if the price is right
Tampa: Hitched thier wagon to Lindback/Bishop
Det: Just signed Howard
Chi: Possible wildcard here (if the deal for Lu, another goalie hits the market)
Leafs: Reimer has come up big

Not sure if i'm missing anyone....that is also not mentioning UFA's.


Last edited by Liferleafer: 04-26-2013 at 02:23 PM.
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04-26-2013, 01:25 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Go to NHL leaders -> All Stats. Otherewise you get guys with 1 GP and such.
I'm sure he knew that. Otherwise, .

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04-26-2013, 03:21 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Maybe, but for each team looking for a goalie....another goalie hits the market.

Philly: Reported they will not buy out Bryz
Buffalo: Miller hits the market
Winnepeg: Pavelic hits the market
Caps: Youngsters have proven they can play
Devils: Still have Marty signed for another year
FLA: This is were i think Lu goes if the price is right
Tampa: Hitched thier wagon to Lindback/Bishop
Det: Just signed Howard
Chi: Possible wildcard here (if the deal for Lu, another goalie hits the market)
Leafs: Reimer has come up big

Not sure if i'm missing anyone....that is also not mentioning UFA's.
Good list. I'd like to mention Minnesota possibly as well, as Backstorm is UFA, Kuemper I don't think has cut it, and Harding may not be the same player (although I wish him all the best dealing with his ailment). I'm not saying for Luongo, but in movements for a goalie of one kind, I wouldn't count them out.

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04-27-2013, 08:38 AM
  #217
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This really could end in many ways. For all we know:
Lou could just say...nope, not going to waive. Buy me out. Let me choose where to go. or,
if Lou waives...it will be where he wants to go. or,
if the value is not there, maybe Schneider gets dealt

anyone saying they know what will happen are just wrong.

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04-27-2013, 04:41 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
anyone saying they know what will happen are just wrong.
What we do know is Vancouver kept Luongo and look good heading into the playoffs.

The rumoured teams:
Toronto didn't pay for Luongo and look good, Reimer has been excellent.

Chicago didn't pay and look great.

The Oilers didn't pay and suffered for it, Dubnyk struggled early and the team couldn't get results and were out of it.

The Jets didn't pay and would almost certainly have made the playoffs if they did.

The Lightning didn't pay and have now given up way more assets than they would have needed to for Luongo, wasted a season, and still have questionable goaltending.

The Panthers didn't pay and seem to have forced a not ready Markstron into a starters role after their veteran starters didn't get the job done. Certainly wasted a season, maybe rushed a top prospect.

The Caps didn't pay and fans seem unsatisfied with their goaltending despite an amazing group of skaters. Still in the dance so they probably are good with their decision.

There are many teams that suffered for how they handled the Luongo situation and Vancouver isn't one of then yet.

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04-27-2013, 11:32 PM
  #219
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You trade Schneider and "make do" with Luongo. But ideally you do this before you completely alienate Luongo by telling him you prefer the other guy and leave him on the block for two years while you hope someone gives you premium value.

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04-27-2013, 11:45 PM
  #220
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Luongo is a good goalie so they should trade the one that will get them the best return.

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04-28-2013, 06:24 AM
  #221
BROOKLYnKNIGHTS
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
What we do know is Vancouver kept Luongo and look good heading into the playoffs.

The rumoured teams:
Toronto didn't pay for Luongo and look good, Reimer has been excellent.

Chicago didn't pay and look great.

The Oilers didn't pay and suffered for it, Dubnyk struggled early and the team couldn't get results and were out of it.

The Jets didn't pay and would almost certainly have made the playoffs if they did.

The Lightning didn't pay and have now given up way more assets than they would have needed to for Luongo, wasted a season, and still have questionable goaltending.

The Panthers didn't pay and seem to have forced a not ready Markstron into a starters role after their veteran starters didn't get the job done. Certainly wasted a season, maybe rushed a top prospect.

The Caps didn't pay and fans seem unsatisfied with their goaltending despite an amazing group of skaters. Still in the dance so they probably are good with their decision.

There are many teams that suffered for how they handled the Luongo situation and Vancouver isn't one of then yet.
No factual information only speculation.

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04-28-2013, 06:46 AM
  #222
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Luongo has value, so no point buying him out.

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04-28-2013, 08:58 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Luongo has value, so no point buying him out.
To what team? After a year of trying, the Nucks have failed to unload him and the market is getting worse, not better with the cap going down and a plethora of goalie options (Miller, Backstrom, Thomas etc.)

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04-28-2013, 09:15 AM
  #224
Tripod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
What we do know is Vancouver kept Luongo and look good heading into the playoffs.

The rumoured teams:
Toronto didn't pay for Luongo and look good, Reimer has been excellent.

Chicago didn't pay and look great.

The Oilers didn't pay and suffered for it, Dubnyk struggled early and the team couldn't get results and were out of it.

The Jets didn't pay and would almost certainly have made the playoffs if they did.

The Lightning didn't pay and have now given up way more assets than they would have needed to for Luongo, wasted a season, and still have questionable goaltending.

The Panthers didn't pay and seem to have forced a not ready Markstron into a starters role after their veteran starters didn't get the job done. Certainly wasted a season, maybe rushed a top prospect.

The Caps didn't pay and fans seem unsatisfied with their goaltending despite an amazing group of skaters. Still in the dance so they probably are good with their decision.

There are many teams that suffered for how they handled the Luongo situation and Vancouver isn't one of then yet.
lol....I am wondering how many of these teams Luongo waived his NMC for. Probably only Tampa and Florida. And they were bubble teams anyways. Maybe Vancouver should have looked for reasonable deals instead of looking to squeeze other teams for too much. And as you said...unless Vancouver wins the cup, then they too will have suffered for handling the situation wrong. His cap space could be a 2nd line player or top 4 D-man.

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