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Habs' off-season moves (all trades, proposals & free agent talk here)

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Old
04-25-2013, 03:32 PM
  #301
LePoche69
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
That's your opinion.

However, I'm sure you'd find that my opinion would be echoed by most (if not all) NHL executives.
I would doubt their opinion would be that they're "astronomically" appart.

Price hasn't done much to be consider something else than a top tier goalie (top 10). So what? Dubnyk is a middle of the pack AHL goalie, then?

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04-25-2013, 03:40 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I don't know how often you've seen Dubnyk play but when you say that Price isn't much faster than him, it's a false affirmation. If anything, Dubnyk's biggest fault is that he's slow on his feet, getting back up and moving across his crease... and that coming from someone here, out west.
I said Price isn't much faster not because Dubnyk is that fast, but because Price simply isn't that fast himself. I can name at least 10 starting goalies faster than him lateraly and with faster legs overall:

Fleury
Rask
Ward
Miller
Anderson
Lundquist
Schneider
Luongo
Quick
Rinne

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04-25-2013, 03:46 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I would doubt their opinion would be that they're "astronomically" appart.

Price hasn't done much to be consider something else than a top tier goalie (top 10). So what? Dubnyk is a middle of the pack AHL goalie, then?
I think you'll have a better reception if you have this discussion on the Oiler's board. I have no idea why Price hasn't been very good the past couple weeks, maybe he's not 100 % healthy but I have no interest or reason to compare him to Dubnyk, or Niemi or Bryzgalov.

Other then you being a troll, I don't see the purpose of this discussion. Most Habs fan seem happy enough with Price and I know I wouldn't be happy with Dubnyk as our starter.

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04-25-2013, 04:11 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I think you'll have a better reception if you have this discussion on the Oiler's board. I have no idea why Price hasn't been very good the past couple weeks, maybe he's not 100 % healthy but I have no interest or reason to compare him to Dubnyk, or Niemi or Bryzgalov.

Other then you being a troll, I don't see the purpose of this discussion. Most Habs fan seem happy enough with Price and I know I wouldn't be happy with Dubnyk as our starter.
You have a strange definition of what is a troll. It's a discussion rather rational started by a poster who state that Dubnyk and Price were astronomically appart. I just asked to justify that assertion, even stating myself that Price is better. I just stated that they weren't "astronomically" appart.

If that is being a troll, wow, we wouldn't be able to have any discussion...

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04-25-2013, 04:58 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I would doubt their opinion would be that they're "astronomically" appart.

Price hasn't done much to be consider something else than a top tier goalie (top 10). So what? Dubnyk is a middle of the pack AHL goalie, then?
Dubnyk is an atrocious starting goalie. He's a career back-up, nothing more.

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Old
04-25-2013, 05:37 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
You have a strange definition of what is a troll. It's a discussion rather rational started by a poster who state that Dubnyk and Price were astronomically appart. I just asked to justify that assertion, even stating myself that Price is better. I just stated that they weren't "astronomically" appart.

If that is being a troll, wow, we wouldn't be able to have any discussion...
I'm not saying it's you specifically but, this "discussion" has got to be one of the weakest I've seen on these boards. I am not an expert, I don't want to seem as if I'm claiming to be.

Based off of my personal experience as a goaltender, Dubnyk and Price are miles apart in terms of skill, ability, mental toughness, and athleticism. I'm not looking at numbers, I'm just looking at how they play the game and what their strengths and weaknesses are. This is based on the games I've watched Price play since the WJCs and limited viewings of Dubnyk as I can't stand Edmonton. I've seen the absolute worst of Price, I've also seen him at his best. I've seen Dubnyk win a couple games and saw him lose a couple games, not a large sample size.

Dubnyk does not have the athleticism or "Goalie IQ" that Price has, nor does he have the speed. Price is elite in his control and awareness. Like a good defender he controls the game from the back end, his stick work and rebound control are at an undoubtedly elite level. This is a very understated responsibility of goaltenders and benefits the team as much as an elite defenceman. This determines zone starts, puck battles, breakout plays, defender positioning, basically it helps determine anything done within the defending zone. Price plays a percentage game, he's not a scrambling goaltender. He relies on positioning, size and efficiency to make a save. His lateral mobility and speed are important in his game but not paramount to his success. Luckily, he is incredibly quick and can scramble if needed. Excellent speed post-to-post and very effective up top. If his game is off, it's way off, there's very little middle ground. When he is on his game he is an elite goalie.

From my limited viewings, Dubnyk is an average goalie at best. He does nothing to contribute to a team but stop pucks and even that's often questionable. He is not a true #1 goalie, surely not someone you could build a team around. His positioning is a weak point in his game, he's often caught and is not quick enough to react to the save. Poor rebound control has resulted in goals in almost every game I've seen him play, that's something a goalie controls, not defensive breakdowns and weak defence. He has good size, decent mobility, NHL-level reflexes and awareness but he is not a #1 goaltender.

This is just what I know, my opinion. You aren't a troll, you're just ignorant to the facts and don't know a lot about the topic. Goaltending isn't a numbers game. If a team is producing wins, the goaltender is doing his job. Let's all end this ridiculous "discussion" and move on to something more interesting.

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Old
04-25-2013, 05:40 PM
  #307
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Dunno about the offense , but Would love MB to sing Scuderi !

Makorv-Gorges
Emelin-Subban
Scuderi-Diaz
Bouillon

Tinordi/Beaulieu

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Old
04-26-2013, 09:10 AM
  #308
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Don't know if he was mentioned before, but what about Mark Fistric? He might've been injured for quite a bit this season, but to me he looked like a steady, physical defender. He's becoming an UFA this summer, currently sitting at $1.475m and had negotiations with the Oilers before the deadline.

Some info about him:
26y, 6'2", 233lbs
15:39 TOI/G
23 GP
4 A
83 hits
51 blocks
14 Gva

In comparison, the stats of Lydman, Scuderi & Hejda:

Toni Lydman
35y, 6'2", 213lbs
$3.000m (UFA)
19:22 TOI/G
34 GP
0 G
6 A
80 hits
74 blocks
18 Gva

Rob Scuderi
34y, 6'1", 216lbs
$3.400m (UFA)
21:59 TOI/G
47 GP
1 G
10 A
27 hits
63 blocks
40 Gva

Jan Hejda
34y, 6'4", 237lbs
$3.250m (through 14/15)
19:33 TOI/G
44 GP
1 G
9 A
93 hits
98 blocks
29 Gva

The "problem" with all of those would be their age. If I had to chose one of those, it'd be Hejda.

Would be interesting to know if Fistric's capable of averaging around 20 mins per game, cause he only played 20+ minutes once this season, but in terms of physicality, he shouldn't be that far away from Emelin.

What about guys like Ron Hainsey (UFA), O'Byrne (UFA) or Mark Stuart (through 13/14)?

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Old
04-26-2013, 09:38 AM
  #309
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Hey there, do you guys think you'll resign Armstrong? I was a fan of his 5-6 years ago and while I don't want my team to sign him, I'm surprisingly curious. I know he's had a lot of injuries and a sharp drop-off in play..

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04-26-2013, 09:45 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by open0rclosed View Post
Hey there, do you guys think you'll resign Armstrong? I was a fan of his 5-6 years ago and while I don't want my team to sign him, I'm surprisingly curious. I know he's had a lot of injuries and a sharp drop-off in play..
Not the worst player, just doesn't bring what the Habs need. Still an NHL player but there's been a big drop off from where he was 5 years ago. I don't think he'll be resigned.

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Old
04-26-2013, 09:55 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
I'm not saying it's you specifically but, this "discussion" has got to be one of the weakest I've seen on these boards. I am not an expert, I don't want to seem as if I'm claiming to be.

Based off of my personal experience as a goaltender, Dubnyk and Price are miles apart in terms of skill, ability, mental toughness, and athleticism. I'm not looking at numbers, I'm just looking at how they play the game and what their strengths and weaknesses are. This is based on the games I've watched Price play since the WJCs and limited viewings of Dubnyk as I can't stand Edmonton. I've seen the absolute worst of Price, I've also seen him at his best. I've seen Dubnyk win a couple games and saw him lose a couple games, not a large sample size.

Dubnyk does not have the athleticism or "Goalie IQ" that Price has, nor does he have the speed. Price is elite in his control and awareness. Like a good defender he controls the game from the back end, his stick work and rebound control are at an undoubtedly elite level. This is a very understated responsibility of goaltenders and benefits the team as much as an elite defenceman. This determines zone starts, puck battles, breakout plays, defender positioning, basically it helps determine anything done within the defending zone. Price plays a percentage game, he's not a scrambling goaltender. He relies on positioning, size and efficiency to make a save. His lateral mobility and speed are important in his game but not paramount to his success. Luckily, he is incredibly quick and can scramble if needed. Excellent speed post-to-post and very effective up top. If his game is off, it's way off, there's very little middle ground. When he is on his game he is an elite goalie.

From my limited viewings, Dubnyk is an average goalie at best. He does nothing to contribute to a team but stop pucks and even that's often questionable. He is not a true #1 goalie, surely not someone you could build a team around. His positioning is a weak point in his game, he's often caught and is not quick enough to react to the save. Poor rebound control has resulted in goals in almost every game I've seen him play, that's something a goalie controls, not defensive breakdowns and weak defence. He has good size, decent mobility, NHL-level reflexes and awareness but he is not a #1 goaltender.

This is just what I know, my opinion. You aren't a troll, you're just ignorant to the facts and don't know a lot about the topic. Goaltending isn't a numbers game. If a team is producing wins, the goaltender is doing his job. Let's all end this ridiculous "discussion" and move on to something more interesting.
Fair enough.

And fair enough for your post too.

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Old
04-26-2013, 10:01 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by HabsGER View Post
Don't know if he was mentioned before, but what about Mark Fistric? He might've been injured for quite a bit this season, but to me he looked like a steady, physical defender. He's becoming an UFA this summer, currently sitting at $1.475m and had negotiations with the Oilers before the deadline.

Some info about him:
26y, 6'2", 233lbs
15:39 TOI/G
23 GP
4 A
83 hits
51 blocks
14 Gva

In comparison, the stats of Lydman, Scuderi & Hejda:

Toni Lydman
35y, 6'2", 213lbs
$3.000m (UFA)
19:22 TOI/G
34 GP
0 G
6 A
80 hits
74 blocks
18 Gva

Rob Scuderi
34y, 6'1", 216lbs
$3.400m (UFA)
21:59 TOI/G
47 GP
1 G
10 A
27 hits
63 blocks
40 Gva

Jan Hejda
34y, 6'4", 237lbs
$3.250m (through 14/15)
19:33 TOI/G
44 GP
1 G
9 A
93 hits
98 blocks
29 Gva

The "problem" with all of those would be their age. If I had to chose one of those, it'd be Hejda.

Would be interesting to know if Fistric's capable of averaging around 20 mins per game, cause he only played 20+ minutes once this season, but in terms of physicality, he shouldn't be that far away from Emelin.

What about guys like Ron Hainsey (UFA), O'Byrne (UFA) or Mark Stuart (through 13/14)?
I would be all to build a package to get both Hejda and Bordeleau from Colorado. It shouldn't cost too much since Col needs help and it would be a rather small move that could have a bigger impact than we think.

I would be willing to give someone like Ellis or Didier or Thrower (Habs have other prospect d-men) + a second round pick. I'm not sure it's enough, but it would have Col listening for sure. Completing the package wouldn't be a problem, I think.

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Old
04-26-2013, 10:08 AM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by open0rclosed View Post
Hey there, do you guys think you'll resign Armstrong? I was a fan of his 5-6 years ago and while I don't want my team to sign him, I'm surprisingly curious. I know he's had a lot of injuries and a sharp drop-off in play..
Therrien really likes him, and apparently he's very popular in the room. So while most people will say no based on his play, I don't think it's impossible. I think almost all Hab fans would prefer to let him go and look for an upgrade, though.

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04-26-2013, 10:11 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Therrien really likes him, and apparently he's very popular in the room. So while most people will say no based on his play, I don't think it's impossible. I think almost all Hab fans would prefer to let him go and look for an upgrade, though.
I like him, and wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back. If he can be upgraded for cheap then sure, but you don't spend too much money on those types of players.

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04-26-2013, 11:12 AM
  #315
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I don't think it's been talked about too much but Eller has had an outstanding season this year. He has the same amount of points as DD with 2mins/game less playing time and little to no PP time. He also plays an excellent defensive game, unlike DD. I think this year he has earned the right to a #2 C position on the team. Desharnais can't play wing and Galchenyuk needs time at center. In my opinion, Desharnais is no longer needed on the team and would be best served by being traded.

Unfortunately, going into a new season without a proven #2 is risky. If were able to sign Stephen Weiss, I believe this would alleviate a lot of pressure off our young centers while providing the flexibility to ensure a smooth transition. Weiss is capable of playing both center and wing, he plays a good two-way game and he does not require top-6 minutes. He has been out for most of the year with a wrist injury but should be recovering soon. He is a bit of a gamble but could have a big impact on the team.

Pacioretty-Eller-Weiss
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Stalberg-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Moen-Prust-Torres

Prust and Torres are both capable of playing on the 3rd line if there's an injury. Weiss can play as a #1 or #2 centre or as a top-6 winger where needed. I'm sure I've explained the benefits of Stalberg several times and Torres brings grit and a little bit of what's missing since Emelin was injured. Weiss played unspectacularly before his injury and likely could potentially be signed for around 4.25-4.5mil.

Too much risk? Not enough size and toughness to beat certain goony divisional rivals?


Last edited by Draft: 04-26-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Old
04-26-2013, 11:34 AM
  #316
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I don't think it's been talked about too much but Eller has had an outstanding season this year. He has the same amount of points as DD with 2mins/game less playing time and little to no PP time. He also plays an excellent defensive game, unlike DD. I think this year he has earned the right to a #2 C position on the team. Desharnais can't play wing and Galchenyuk needs time at center. In my opinion, Desharnais is no longer needed on the team and would be best served by being traded.

Unfortunately, going into a new season without a proven #2 is risky. If were able to sign Stephen Weiss, I believe this would alleviate a lot of pressure off our young centers while providing the flexibility to ensure a smooth transition. Weiss is capable of playing both center and wing, he plays a good two-way game and he does not require top-6 minutes. He has been out for most of the year with a wrist injury but should be recovering soon. He is a bit of a gamble but could have a big impact on the team.

Pacioretty-Eller-Weiss
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Stalberg-Galchenyuk-Rookie
Moen-Prust-Torres

Prust and Torres are both capable of playing on the 3rd line if the rookies aren't suitable or ready. Weiss can play as a #1 or #2 centre or as a top-6 winger where needed. I'm sure I've explained the benefits of Stalberg several times and Torres brings grit and a little bit of what's missing since Emelin was injured. Weiss played unspectacularly before his injury and likely could potentially be signed for around 4.25-4.5mil.

Too much risk? Not enough size and toughness to beat certain goony divisional rivals?
Too soff...need Clarkson and Clowe and no Weiss

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Old
04-26-2013, 11:37 AM
  #317
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Stu Bickell and a guy like Mitchell or Greene in LA, or Klesla in PHO would be just great, and enough.

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04-26-2013, 11:42 AM
  #318
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I don't think it's been talked about too much but Eller has had an outstanding season this year. He has the same amount of points as DD with 2mins/game less playing time and little to no PP time. He also plays an excellent defensive game, unlike DD. I think this year he has earned the right to a #2 C position on the team. Desharnais can't play wing and Galchenyuk needs time at center. In my opinion, Desharnais is no longer needed on the team and would be best served by being traded.

Unfortunately, going into a new season without a proven #2 is risky. If were able to sign Stephen Weiss, I believe this would alleviate a lot of pressure off our young centers while providing the flexibility to ensure a smooth transition. Weiss is capable of playing both center and wing, he plays a good two-way game and he does not require top-6 minutes. He has been out for most of the year with a wrist injury but should be recovering soon. He is a bit of a gamble but could have a big impact on the team.

Pacioretty-Eller-Weiss
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Stalberg-Galchenyuk-Rookie
Moen-Prust-Torres

Prust and Torres are both capable of playing on the 3rd line if the rookies aren't suitable or ready. Weiss can play as a #1 or #2 centre or as a top-6 winger where needed. I'm sure I've explained the benefits of Stalberg several times and Torres brings grit and a little bit of what's missing since Emelin was injured. Weiss played unspectacularly before his injury and likely could potentially be signed for around 4.25-4.5mil.

Too much risk? Not enough size and toughness to beat certain goony divisional rivals?
What about Gallagher in your rookie spot?

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04-26-2013, 11:47 AM
  #319
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What about Gallagher in your rookie spot?
That's the one. I will change that so as not to look too deranged.

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Old
04-26-2013, 11:59 AM
  #320
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Stu Bickell and a guy like Mitchell or Greene in LA, or Klesla in PHO would be just great, and enough.
Bickell + Stallberg and then Sesito as the 13th F

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04-26-2013, 12:22 PM
  #321
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Not Stu Bickell, of course, but Bryan Bickell !

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04-26-2013, 12:56 PM
  #322
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Would anyone be willing to sign Latendresse at a low cost? Just by curiosity, I'm not sure I would do it, but for sure he's big and has good hands.

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04-26-2013, 01:06 PM
  #323
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Would anyone be willing to sign Latendresse at a low cost? Just by curiosity, I'm not sure I would do it, but for sure he's big and has good hands.
He has a hard time staying healthy. May be a decent fallaback option if Ryder walks and Plan B, C and E fail.

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04-26-2013, 01:07 PM
  #324
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I would be all to build a package to get both Hejda and Bordeleau from Colorado. It shouldn't cost too much since Col needs help and it would be a rather small move that could have a bigger impact than we think.

I would be willing to give someone like Ellis or Didier or Thrower (Habs have other prospect d-men) + a second round pick. I'm not sure it's enough, but it would have Col listening for sure. Completing the package wouldn't be a problem, I think.
Bordeleau will be a UFA July 1st unless they re-sign him. Unless you were talking about trading for his rights?

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04-26-2013, 01:50 PM
  #325
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Bordeleau will be a UFA July 1st unless they re-sign him. Unless you were talking about trading for his rights?
Didn't know that. Thanks. Habs should sign him as a 12th-13th-14th forward. And the fact that he's french would ease the mediatic workload of others (something more valuable than people think).

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