HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Question about 1985 Series

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-09-2006, 07:46 PM
  #1
Pelle Lindbergh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
Question about 1985 Series

I was young at this time, and i don't remember why the Flyers used Bob Froese and Darren Jensen as goalies at the end of the playoffs vs Edmonton, instead of Pelle Lindbergh

Pelle Lindbergh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-09-2006, 08:27 PM
  #2
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelle Lindbergh View Post
I was young at this time, and i don't remember why the Flyers used Bob Froese and Darren Jensen as goalies at the end of the playoffs vs Edmonton, instead of Pelle Lindbergh
Lindbergh was injured.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-09-2006, 08:39 PM
  #3
Pelle Lindbergh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Lindbergh was injured.
thanks
do you know , how and when he was injured ?

Pelle Lindbergh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-09-2006, 11:11 PM
  #4
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,359
vCash: 1431
Lindbergh suffered a knee injury in the Quebec series, the Wales Conference Finals, on a shot by Mario Marois.

During Game 3 of the Finals (the first game in Edmonton) he was replaced by Froese on two different occasions in attempting to change momentum.

During Game 4, he was replaced by Froese due to a deterioration of the injury which was eventually diagnosed as a torn quadricep (the muscle that moves the knee joint).

For Game 5 (the last of the series), Froese was the starter.

Jensen never played in the Finals to my recollection.

MiamiScreamingEagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-09-2006, 11:28 PM
  #5
Chalupa Batman
Mod Supervisor
 
Chalupa Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Jensen never played in the Finals to my recollection.
That's correct - moreover, Darren Jensen never appeared in net during the NHL playoffs over the course of his career.

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/jensend.html

Chalupa Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 12:03 AM
  #6
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,359
vCash: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No View Post
That's correct - moreover, Darren Jensen never appeared in net during the NHL playoffs over the course of his career.

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/jensend.html
Darren Jensen was the starting goalie in the Flyers' first game following Lindbergh's death (November 1985). It was against Edmonton who offered to postpone the game. Froese was the scheduled starter but during a practice he was drilled by a Lindsay Carson shot (I recall a descriptive account in the newspaper that I will avoid here -- let's just say his cup was cracked ) and couldn't play in that game. The backup, the guy who technically replaced Lindbergh on the roster, was Mike Bloski who never appeared in an NHL game and backed up Jensen who got the nod.

MiamiScreamingEagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 12:40 AM
  #7
Chalupa Batman
Mod Supervisor
 
Chalupa Batman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,006
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Darren Jensen was the starting goalie in the Flyers' first game following Lindbergh's death (November 1985). It was against Edmonton who offered to postpone the game. Froese was the scheduled starter but during a practice he was drilled by a Lindsay Carson shot (I recall a descriptive account in the newspaper that I will avoid here -- let's just say his cup was cracked ) and couldn't play in that game. The backup, the guy who technically replaced Lindbergh on the roster, was Mike Bloski who never appeared in an NHL game and backed up Jensen who got the nod.
Only thing I'll add here is that Jensen and the Flyers beat the Oilers that night, in the first matchup between the two since the previous spring's Stanley Cup Finals.

Chalupa Batman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 12:58 AM
  #8
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,359
vCash: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor No View Post
Only thing I'll add here is that Jensen and the Flyers beat the Oilers that night, in the first matchup between the two since the previous spring's Stanley Cup Finals.
Yup. The Flyers were in the midst of a streak that would reach 13 wins in a row which is still a team record. The last win of the streak was improbable, against a very solid Islanders' team, a 5-4 win in OT that was one of the most exciting ever. The Flyers overcame two 3-goal deficits to keep the streak alive. Two nights later, the teams met on Long island and I think the Isles had a 5-1 lead in the second, the Flyers made it within one at 7-6 and then NY scored an empty netter with a second or two left. A boatload of emotions at that time.

MiamiScreamingEagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 05:56 AM
  #9
Pelle Lindbergh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 85
vCash: 500
Thanks , for your infos !

Pelle Lindbergh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 10:44 AM
  #10
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Lindbergh suffered a knee injury in the Quebec series, the Wales Conference Finals, on a shot by Mario Marois.

During Game 3 of the Finals (the first game in Edmonton) he was replaced by Froese on two different occasions in attempting to change momentum.

During Game 4, he was replaced by Froese due to a deterioration of the injury which was eventually diagnosed as a torn quadricep (the muscle that moves the knee joint).

For Game 5 (the last of the series), Froese was the starter.

Jensen never played in the Finals to my recollection.
Thanks - do you recall what other players were missing from the Flyers lineup in the Finals in addition to their #1 goalie. I thought Kerr, their leading scorer was out?

And for the Oilers?

chooch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 11:40 AM
  #11
thegabe
Registered User
 
thegabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: City of No Champions
Posts: 216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Thanks - do you recall what other players were missing from the Flyers lineup in the Finals in addition to their #1 goalie. I thought Kerr, their leading scorer was out?

And for the Oilers?
The Flyers didn't actually ice an NHL team that series. Due to injuries, they were forced to play what amounted to an AHL team in the finals. Of course, this is the only reason Edmonton won that series.

In fact, every cup the Oilers have won is just a result of serendipity. See, the Eastern conference, being so much more r0xx0rz than the West, was so much more physical that by the time the Finals would roll around, the Eastern team was physically spent, leading them to be easy pickings for those free-wheeling Barishnikovs from the West.

Edmonton never had any superstar players, generational talent, intense leadership, ridiculous skill, extensive depth, or drive, or will to win. It wasn't like Coffey and 99 walked all over that Flyers team in '85, scoring at will or anything.

They just benefitted from a less physical conference and an easier travel schedule.



On another note...
RIP Pelle.

thegabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 03:00 PM
  #12
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Thanks - do you recall what other players were missing from the Flyers lineup in the Finals in addition to their #1 goalie. I thought Kerr, their leading scorer was out?

And for the Oilers?
Not sure about the Oilers, but the Flyers were without Kerr (leading goal scorer) and Brad McCrimmon (2nd best defenseman, which borke up the NHL's best defense pairing).

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 04:34 PM
  #13
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,359
vCash: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Thanks - do you recall what other players were missing from the Flyers lineup in the Finals in addition to their #1 goalie. I thought Kerr, their leading scorer was out?

And for the Oilers?
In 1985, the Flyers had a far less significant volume of injuries than they had in 1987. I am not sure of Edmonton's injuries in 1985.

In the 1985 Playoffs, some players like Poulin (busted ribs) missed games in previous rounds but at least dressed, though not at full health, in the Finals; only Lindbergh, McCrimmon (as JFF mentioned, hurt in the Quebec series and never played in the Finals) and Kerr (who did dress in three of the five games), to my recollection, missed games in the Finals because they were hurt...unless you count the benching of Todd Bergen with hurt feelings .

EDIT: Checking the HockeyDB site, of the main regular season contributors in 1985 Kerr missed 7 playoff games, Poulin 8, McCrimmon 8 and Thomas Eriksson 10 (though I am not sure if his was due to injury).

In 1987, the list was lengthy.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 09-10-2006 at 04:43 PM.
MiamiScreamingEagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 08:40 PM
  #14
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
In 1985, the Flyers had a far less significant volume of injuries than they had in 1987. I am not sure of Edmonton's injuries in 1985.

In the 1985 Playoffs, some players like Poulin (busted ribs) missed games in previous rounds but at least dressed, though not at full health, in the Finals; only Lindbergh, McCrimmon (as JFF mentioned, hurt in the Quebec series and never played in the Finals) and Kerr (who did dress in three of the five games), to my recollection, missed games in the Finals because they were hurt...unless you count the benching of Todd Bergen with hurt feelings .

EDIT: Checking the HockeyDB site, of the main regular season contributors in 1985 Kerr missed 7 playoff games, Poulin 8, McCrimmon 8 and Thomas Eriksson 10 (though I am not sure if his was due to injury).

In 1987, the list was lengthy.
Thanks didnt know that it was that bad that you are missing your starting goalie and #2 defenceman and top goal scorer.

What about in 87 when they took the Oilers to 7

chooch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 08:43 PM
  #15
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Thanks didnt know that it was that bad that you are missing your starting goalie and #2 defenceman and top goal scorer.

What about in 87 when they took the Oilers to 7
Injuries are part of the game. If you can't stay healthy and can't win with players out, you are not the best team.

I suspect, that if the Oilers exact roster played for the Canadiens in the 80s, and Gretzky's name was actually Bouchard, chooch would sing their praises to his dying day.

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 09:36 PM
  #16
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,191
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
In 1985, the Flyers had a far less significant volume of injuries than they had in 1987. I am not sure of Edmonton's injuries in 1985.

In the 1985 Playoffs, some players like Poulin (busted ribs) missed games in previous rounds but at least dressed, though not at full health, in the Finals; only Lindbergh, McCrimmon (as JFF mentioned, hurt in the Quebec series and never played in the Finals) and Kerr (who did dress in three of the five games), to my recollection, missed games in the Finals because they were hurt...unless you count the benching of Todd Bergen with hurt feelings .

EDIT: Checking the HockeyDB site, of the main regular season contributors in 1985 Kerr missed 7 playoff games, Poulin 8, McCrimmon 8 and Thomas Eriksson 10 (though I am not sure if his was due to injury).

In 1987, the list was lengthy.
Who were they missing in `87? Other than Kerr, the roster for the Final looks like their top guys, though that doesn`t say which guys may have been playing hurt.

There was a Strachan column years ago when he said the night before Game 7 in `87 the Flyers held a year-end banquet which players were required to attend where alcohol was readily available and a few Flyers partied too hard that night. Don`t know if there`s any truth to it, but it would explain the team's sluggish performance (other than Hextall) in Game 7 after they fought and clawed their way back to win Games 5 and 6.

reckoning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-10-2006, 10:23 PM
  #17
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,359
vCash: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
Who were they missing in `87? Other than Kerr, the roster for the Final looks like their top guys, though that doesn`t say which guys may have been playing hurt.

There was a Strachan column years ago when he said the night before Game 7 in `87 the Flyers held a year-end banquet which players were required to attend where alcohol was readily available and a few Flyers partied too hard that night. Don`t know if there`s any truth to it, but it would explain the team's sluggish performance (other than Hextall) in Game 7 after they fought and clawed their way back to win Games 5 and 6.
In the Finals, Kerr missed all seven games with a busted left shoulder, Sinisalo missed a couple of games (2 and 3 I think) and Craven missed Game One. Overall in the playoffs, Kerr missed 14 of the 26 games with the shoulder; Poulin (like 1985) had broken ribs which caused him to miss 11 games and donned a flak jacket when he did play; Craven didn't dress for 14 games with a broken foot suffered in the opening round but returned for the most of the Finals; Ron Sutter missed 10 games with a stress fracture in a vertebra -- back; Zezel played with a tear in his left knee while Mellanby and Daigneault were in and out of the lineup, too.

MiamiScreamingEagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2006, 07:25 AM
  #18
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
In the Finals, Kerr missed all seven games with a busted left shoulder, Sinisalo missed a couple of games (2 and 3 I think) and Craven missed Game One. Overall in the playoffs, Kerr missed 14 of the 26 games with the shoulder; Poulin (like 1985) had broken ribs which caused him to miss 11 games and donned a flak jacket when he did play; Craven didn't dress for 14 games with a broken foot suffered in the opening round but returned for the most of the Finals; Ron Sutter missed 10 games with a stress fracture in a vertebra -- back; Zezel played with a tear in his left knee while Mellanby and Daigneault were in and out of the lineup, too.
Boy, sure seems like the Flyers got banged up en route to the 87 Finals. It seems almost as bad as in 85. Still they took the Oilers to a 7th game 1 goal defeat.

What was the injury situation for the Oilers in 85 and 87? Surely they also had a tough road to the Finals?

chooch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2006, 04:10 PM
  #19
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,359
vCash: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Boy, sure seems like the Flyers got banged up en route to the 87 Finals. It seems almost as bad as in 85. Still they took the Oilers to a 7th game 1 goal defeat.

What was the injury situation for the Oilers in 85 and 87? Surely they also had a tough road to the Finals?
In 1987, Edmonton played 21 PO games and, looking at the HockeyDB site, their players who appeared in 60+ r/s games who did not play in all 21 PO games were Coffey (missed 4 games), Muni (missed 7 games) and Steve Smith (missed 6 games). In the 1987 Finals, from what I can tell, Pouzar replaced Buchberger after Game 3 and played the rest of the way and Muni replaced Steve Smith after Game 2 and played the rest of the way. I think those were the only lineup changes they had in that series though I am not sure if the changes were due to injuries or the usual reasons for lineup changes.

In 1985, looks like rookie Esa Tikkanen made his NHL debut in Game 2 of the Finals and played in Games 2, 3, and 4 that year (but not 5). Looks like all their main players appeared in all five 1985 Finals games with these exceptions: Lumley played in 1 game (Game 1), Hughes played in 4 games (2, 3, 4, 5), Pouzar played in 1 game (Game 1), Billy Carroll played in 2 games (Games 1 and 5), Semenko played in 4 games (2, 3, 4, and 5), Randy Gregg played in 4 games (1, 2, 4 and 5) and Melynk played in one game (Game 3). I'm not sure the reasons, injuries or otherwise.

MiamiScreamingEagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2006, 07:37 PM
  #20
chooch*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
In 1987, Edmonton played 21 PO games and, looking at the HockeyDB site, their players who appeared in 60+ r/s games who did not play in all 21 PO games were Coffey (missed 4 games), Muni (missed 7 games) and Steve Smith (missed 6 games). In the 1987 Finals, from what I can tell, Pouzar replaced Buchberger after Game 3 and played the rest of the way and Muni replaced Steve Smith after Game 2 and played the rest of the way. I think those were the only lineup changes they had in that series though I am not sure if the changes were due to injuries or the usual reasons for lineup changes.

In 1985, looks like rookie Esa Tikkanen made his NHL debut in Game 2 of the Finals and played in Games 2, 3, and 4 that year (but not 5). Looks like all their main players appeared in all five 1985 Finals games with these exceptions: Lumley played in 1 game (Game 1), Hughes played in 4 games (2, 3, 4, 5), Pouzar played in 1 game (Game 1), Billy Carroll played in 2 games (Games 1 and 5), Semenko played in 4 games (2, 3, 4, and 5), Randy Gregg played in 4 games (1, 2, 4 and 5) and Melynk played in one game (Game 3). I'm not sure the reasons, injuries or otherwise.


Looks like the Flyers werent tough enough to handle the playoffs in 85 or 87.
The Oilers certainly were full value for these 2 Cups; they DID NOT , I repeat DID NOT take advantage of their soft division to romp to the Finals.

I mean in 85 they didnt even have Randy Gregg available for all playoff games...

chooch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2006, 10:00 PM
  #21
Ogopogo*
 
Ogopogo*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch View Post
Boy, sure seems like the Flyers got banged up en route to the 87 Finals. It seems almost as bad as in 85. Still they took the Oilers to a 7th game 1 goal defeat.

What was the injury situation for the Oilers in 85 and 87? Surely they also had a tough road to the Finals?

Well choocher, if we are going to put asterisks next to Stanley Cup wins, I think we should start with the Canadiens wins prior to 1969. They were allowed to scoop all players produced in the province of Quebec so, American teams and the Leafs had no shot at getting them. The Habs build their teams on unfair trade practices.

When you look back at the Oilers cup wins, it was not the peewee tournament that you describe.

In 83-84, the average team the Oilers faced in the playoffs, prior to the finals, had 81 points during the regular season. Their finals opponents, the Islanders, faced an average opponent of 89.67.

In 84-85 the Oilers faced an average opponent of 87 points, the Flyers faced an average opponent of 79.67.

In 86-87, the Oilers faced 78.67 and the Flyers faced 83.33.

In 87-88 the Oilers faced 91.67 and the Bruins faced 90.

In 89-90 the Oilers were up against 82.67 and the Bruins were up against 85.33.


Looking at these numbers, twice in five cup runs, the Oilers faced BETTER competition than did their Wales conference rivals - including 84-85 where the Oilers faced SIGNIFICANTLY better opponents in the Kings (82 points), the Jets (96 points) and the Blackhawks (83 points). The Flyers faced the Rangers (62 points), the Islanders (86) and Quebec (91).

So, your argument is false, chooch. Try again next time and bring some real evidence to your arguments.

And remember, the Oilers were just that good.

Ogopogo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2006, 10:16 PM
  #22
Murphy
Registered User
 
Murphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,104
vCash: 500
I'd just like to throw in there that I was there for game 5, Oilers returning home up
3-1. I was going to see the cup hoisted live! Unfortunately Hextall played the game of his life and I went home disappointed.

I do remember thinking at the time that it was blessing that Kerr was injured but it's part of the game. I might have my years messed up but wasn't it 84-85 that the Flyers went undefeated for 30+ games. Throughout that streak the Oilers were still ahead of them in the standings.

I also think that was the year Lowe played through a broken wrist and broken ribs?

Murphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2006, 10:25 PM
  #23
reckoning
Registered User
 
reckoning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,191
vCash: 500
The Flyers were missing two of their five best players in the 1976 Final against Montreal. MacLeish had been their leading playoff point-getter in their two Cup years, and of course Parent won the Conn Smythe those two years. Stephenson played well in that series, but Parent was the best goalie in the game at the time and who knows what may have happened if he was healthy.

reckoning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-11-2006, 10:57 PM
  #24
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,359
vCash: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy2 View Post
I'd just like to throw in there that I was there for game 5, Oilers returning home up
3-1. I was going to see the cup hoisted live! Unfortunately Hextall played the game of his life and I went home disappointed.

I do remember thinking at the time that it was blessing that Kerr was injured but it's part of the game. I might have my years messed up but wasn't it 84-85 that the Flyers went undefeated for 30+ games. Throughout that streak the Oilers were still ahead of them in the standings.

I also think that was the year Lowe played through a broken wrist and broken ribs?
It was 1979-80 when the Flyers' had the NHL record 35-game unbeaten streak. They ended 1984-85 regular season with a 16-1-0 run followed by six wins to open the playoffs.

http://www.shrpsports.com/nhl/teamseas.php

MiamiScreamingEagles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-12-2006, 12:01 AM
  #25
shawnmullin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Swift Current
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,172
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to shawnmullin Send a message via MSN to shawnmullin
Why is Chooch even allowed to post in this forum anymore? His arguments are so laughable it's pointless to even bother with him.

Take away Carolina's cup, Roloson was injured. Their division sucks. Etc.

shawnmullin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.