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2013 NHL Draft Part 3 (Flyers own the 11th overall pick)

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04-26-2013, 07:47 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
This may not be accurate, but I remember reading somewhere that Pulock has a higher offensive ceiling than Risto, but Risto is ready to go within a year or two and Pulock is probably a couple years out. Could be wrong, but I think I remembe reading that about someone. Might have been Nurse if not Pulock.
That's what I've read. Pulock has much better offensive numbers than Risto, but he's put them up playing in Junior as opposed to SM-liiga.

ISS described Ristolainen as being as NHL-ready as Seth Jones.

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04-26-2013, 07:49 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
This may not be accurate, but I remember reading somewhere that Pulock has a higher offensive ceiling than Risto, but Risto is ready to go within a year or two and Pulock is probably a couple years out. Could be wrong, but I think I remembe reading that about someone. Might have been Nurse if not Pulock.
Pulock's offensive upside is probably as high as there is amongst defensemen in this draft, so its certainly reasonable to suggest that.

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04-26-2013, 07:52 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
That's what I've read. Pulock has much better offensive numbers than Risto, but he's put them up playing in Junior as opposed to SM-liiga.

ISS described Ristolainen as being as NHL-ready as Seth Jones.
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Pulock's offensive upside is probably as high as there is amongst defensemen in this draft, so its certainly reasonable to suggest that.
Well that all sounds pretty good. As long as they take a defenseman I'll be happy.

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04-26-2013, 07:58 AM
  #229
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Don't give 2 ****s about who if the two has higher offensive ceiling. Whoever can play .... Wait for it .... D the best I want.

Must be a fantastic or have the better..... Wait for it .... Puck moving skills.

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04-26-2013, 07:59 AM
  #230
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I find it difficult to rank the defenceman in the draft, or even find a fairly consensus opinion on who is better etc.

Can anyone give a general ranking?

Jones is obviously number 1. After that I am seeing Nurse, Pulock, Ristolainen, Morrissey interchanged to some degree, with Zadorov, Hagg and even Mueller getting mixed about as well.

Some say Nurse will be available at the 10 spot, others say gone by 6. Would it be fair to group them as follows, in terms of ability?

1. Seth Jones
2-4. Nurse, Ristolainen, Zadorov
5-6. Pulock, Morrissey
7-10. Mueller, Hagg, Bigras

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04-26-2013, 08:13 AM
  #231
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That seems like the consensus, but I don't think Nurse will be on the board by the time the Flyers pick. As I see it they have a 2 or 3% chance of picking Jones, and a 0% chance of getting Nurse.

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04-26-2013, 08:20 AM
  #232
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I said this earlier but I'll post it again. Other teams rank guys differently. The top three is pretty clear. After that, every team has a different board. Everyone wants the Flyers to go BPA and take a forward if that is the case, yet they expect some teams in front of the Flyers to draft based on need and not go BPA. And even if all 8-10 teams ahead of the Flyers do go BPA, the Flames BPA is likely different from Nashville's who is likely different from Tampa Bay's who is likely different from Philadelphia's.

Essentially, I think at this point they have the same shot at getting Nurse as they do Risto as they do Zadorov as they do Lindholm, etc. Pretty much anyone not named MacKinnon, Jones, or Drouin.

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04-26-2013, 08:29 AM
  #233
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So according to twitter:

"@AlexSerenRosso: So, Nichushkin to Dynamo for 10 million dollars, 2 years contract with out-clause after 1 year, 2 millions per. #NHLEntryDraft"

With an out clause after one year and the want to play in the NHL i dont think he drops that far anymore. This is if in right and its an nhl out clause.

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04-26-2013, 08:29 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I said this earlier but I'll post it again. Other teams rank guys differently. The top three is pretty clear. After that, every team has a different board. Everyone wants the Flyers to go BPA and take a forward if that is the case, yet they expect some teams in front of the Flyers to draft based on need and not go BPA. And even if all 8-10 teams ahead of the Flyers do go BPA, the Flames BPA is likely different from Nashville's who is likely different from Tampa Bay's who is likely different from Philadelphia's.

Essentially, I think at this point they have the same shot at getting Nurse as they do Risto as they do Zadorov as they do Lindholm, etc. Pretty much anyone not named MacKinnon, Jones, or Drouin.
Exactly this, not many people would have thought Couturier fall outside the top 4-5 the other year... and look where he ended up.

I personally thought in that draft Landeskog, Larsson, Nugent-Hopkins and Couts were a cut above the rest, with Huberdeau and Hamilton in the bracket behind them... tbh I would have been happy with any of those 6 in that draft.

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04-26-2013, 08:33 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
So according to twitter:

"@AlexSerenRosso: So, Nichushkin to Dynamo for 10 million dollars, 2 years contract with out-clause after 1 year, 2 millions per. #NHLEntryDraft"

With an out clause after one year and the want to play in the NHL i dont think he drops that far anymore. This is if in right and its an nhl out clause.
I am struggling to understand this transaction. Dynamo pays the club 10 million to his club and just gets to pay him 2 mil for next season only to likely lose him after one year? It seems bizarre to me.

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04-26-2013, 08:40 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I said this earlier but I'll post it again. Other teams rank guys differently. The top three is pretty clear. After that, every team has a different board. Everyone wants the Flyers to go BPA and take a forward if that is the case, yet they expect some teams in front of the Flyers to draft based on need and not go BPA. And even if all 8-10 teams ahead of the Flyers do go BPA, the Flames BPA is likely different from Nashville's who is likely different from Tampa Bay's who is likely different from Philadelphia's.

Essentially, I think at this point they have the same shot at getting Nurse as they do Risto as they do Zadorov as they do Lindholm, etc. Pretty much anyone not named MacKinnon, Jones, or Drouin.
I understand that completely, Im not asking for a mock draft. Im asking if those groupings are accurate.

You could make arguments within them for who is 2nd or 4th best defender in the draft, but its clear you could not make that argument for the 10th best defender to be the 2nd, if that makes sense.

Also have to weigh NHL readiness. A player like Ristolainen is said to be nearly as NHL ready as Jones. The Flyers may value him more, as a more immediate contributor, from a position of need, then a defender who may potentially have a slightly higher ceiling long term, but not ready for NHL for 2-3 years.

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04-26-2013, 08:56 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
I understand that completely, Im not asking for a mock draft. Im asking if those groupings are accurate.

You could make arguments within them for who is 2nd or 4th best defender in the draft, but its clear you could not make that argument for the 10th best defender to be the 2nd, if that makes sense.

Also have to weigh NHL readiness. A player like Ristolainen is said to be nearly as NHL ready as Jones. The Flyers may value him more, as a more immediate contributor, from a position of need, then a defender who may potentially have a slightly higher ceiling long term, but not ready for NHL for 2-3 years.
Oh for sure. I think the rankings above are spot on. But ranking defenseman on HFBoards is a lot different than how teams rank them though.

Scenario: Zadorov looks like he is a shut down defenseman. Pulock looks like an offensive defenseman. Risto and Nurse may be NHL ready. If Calgary values a PMD more than a shut down guy, Pulock may be higher on the list. If Nashville values shut down more, then Zadorov is going to be higher on the list. If Tampa Bay values NHL readiness more, Risto or Nurse will be higher. Maybe Edmonton sees something in Haag or someone else that no one else does.

If you are just looking at it from an objective POV, then those rankings are probably correct for defensemen in this draft. But if you are looking at it from the POV from each individual team, I wager those rankings will look different for each team.

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04-26-2013, 09:08 AM
  #238
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Either by trade or whatever, I think Mackinnon ends up in Fla and the Avs get Jones.

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04-26-2013, 09:54 AM
  #239
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Either by trade or whatever, I think Mackinnon ends up in Fla and the Avs get Jones.
IF available, there is a zero percent chance Jones does not pass Avs.

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04-26-2013, 10:16 AM
  #240
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I'd be willing to do our 1st, Couturier, Coburn and McGinn for the 1st overall. I REALLY want jones on this team.

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04-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I'd be willing to do our 1st, Couturier, Coburn and McGinn for the 1st overall. I REALLY want jones on this team.
godpleaseno

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04-26-2013, 10:21 AM
  #242
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I'd be willing to do our 1st, Couturier, Coburn and McGinn for the 1st overall. I REALLY want jones on this team.
Swap Couturier for Laughton or read and I'm in. Can even swap McGinn for next years first if they would take Laughton/Read instead of couts

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04-26-2013, 10:33 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
I'd be willing to do our 1st, Couturier, Coburn and McGinn for the 1st overall. I REALLY want jones on this team.
Idk about that. Swapping Coburn with Jones (presumably who would be selected at #1) doesn't really fix anything. I think the guys we have on the blueline right now (Gross/Timonen/Schenn/Coburn) plus Jones would be excellent now and moving forward. Swapping Coburn for Jones, however, really doesn't do much IMO for the time being and moving forward we would be looking at replacing Coburn (and Timonen when he goes next season).

I have no idea what the 1st pick is worth. I know if we #1 overall, I would seriously consider a top ten pick, Couturier, and McGinn. Throw Coburn in at is a no-brainer, but coming from the team dealing Coburn, I wouldn't make it.

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04-26-2013, 10:35 AM
  #244
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I want Jones as much as the next person, the most I would be willing to trade for that pick is our own first, plus Laughton, Read or Coburn. (only one of them + 1st)

Nothing more.

HIGHLY doubt that gets it done.

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04-26-2013, 10:41 AM
  #245
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If we're going to do a massive overpayment I'd rather it be for someone who is already established and can play now. And I'd still really really rather not do that. Especially since quite a few of those pieces could fetch us 1sts on their own. I'd rather end up with 3 1sts total in this draft by trading Coburn and Laughton, and use McGinn and Cousins as secondary pieces if need be. Having 3 of Zadorov, Ristolainen, Monahan, Pulock, Lindholm, Mantha, etc. is going to be better for the team than just Jones. If deals centered around Coburn and Laughton can get us 1sts that would see us drafting especially those 1st 3 players, I'd do it in a heartbeat. They're just too damn good to pass up. Couturier in my mind is also too damn good to even consider trading. He's a player worth sticking with and giving the time to develop.

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04-26-2013, 10:44 AM
  #246
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Trading Coburn, unless it's for another defenseman of the around the same age & experience, is a fantasy when Mezaros and Grossmann are still injured and may not be fully healthy to start next season.

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04-26-2013, 10:44 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Flyers2point0 View Post
If we're going to do a massive overpayment I'd rather it be for someone who is already established and can play now. And I'd still really really rather not do that. Especially since quite a few of those pieces could fetch us 1sts on their own. I'd rather end up with 3 1sts total in this draft by trading Coburn and Laughton, and use McGinn and Cousins as secondary pieces if need be. Having 3 of Zadorov, Ristolainen, Monahan, Pulock, Lindholm, Mantha, etc. is going to be better for the team than just Jones. If deals centered around Coburn and Laughton can get us 1sts that would see us drafting especially those 1st 3 players, I'd do it in a heartbeat. They're just too damn good to pass up. Couturier in my mind is also too damn good to even consider trading. He's a player worth sticking with and giving the time to develop.
My problem with this is who is going to be willing to trade their #1 defenseman that is already established? I really can't think of any team off the top of my head.

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04-26-2013, 11:07 AM
  #248
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My problem with this is who is going to be willing to trade their #1 defenseman that is already established? I really can't think of any team off the top of my head.
Exactly that's why I said I'd reallllly rather not do that anyway. What I was saying was if we're willing to do such massive overpayment then why not get a handful of 1sts in a deep draft as opposed to gambling everything on one player?

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04-26-2013, 11:16 AM
  #249
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Russian fans quite upset on the prospects board over the Nichuskin thing.

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04-26-2013, 11:24 AM
  #250
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Russian fans quite upset on the prospects board over the Nichuskin thing.
Upset because of the new deal being worked out, or upset that people are snubbing him because he is a Russian?

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