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04-26-2013, 09:58 AM
  #726
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Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
If the Rangers had traded Kreider instead of Dubinsky, how much better is this team right now?
I wouldn't trade Kreider for Dubinksy.

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04-26-2013, 10:08 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I wouldn't trade Kreider for Dubinksy.
All I'm saying is that for this year and next 1 or 2, having Dubinsky would help this team much more than Kreider. They really miss that two-way center play and puck possession ability, not to mention grit.

Kreider may well have the better career, but he doesn't seem like the player you keep at all costs because you build a Cup winning team around him.

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04-26-2013, 10:14 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
All I'm saying is that for this year and next 1 or 2, having Dubinsky would help this team much more than Kreider. They really miss that two-way center play and puck possession ability, not to mention grit.

Kreider may well have the better career, but he doesn't seem like the player you keep at all costs because you build a Cup winning team around him.
You can't look at these things like that in a cap world.

I can't answer who would help this team more. If the Rangers have Dubinksy, do they make the trade for Brassard, Moore and Dorsett?

I would rather have kept Kreider over Dubinsky last summer. I'd rather have Kreider now. He hasn't been what we hoped he would be, but he's not really hurting the team. And I still have high hopes for him.

I can honestly say, there has never been a time this season when I've said to myself, "I really miss Dubinsky."

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04-26-2013, 10:22 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You can't look at these things like that in a cap world.

I can't answer who would help this team more. If the Rangers have Dubinksy, do they make the trade for Brassard, Moore and Dorsett?

I would rather have kept Kreider over Dubinsky last summer. I'd rather have Kreider now. He hasn't been what we hoped he would be, but he's not really hurting the team. And I still have high hopes for him.

I can honestly say, there has never been a time this season when I've said to myself, "I really miss Dubinsky."
I've found myself saying it a couple times, along with Prust. Not particularly for their talent, but they both had the ability to put a spark to the team. Theres been so many times where I feel like the team is operating until this cloud of malaise. Even in the 3rd period last night, with the playoffs on the line, there wasnt much emotion.

But before I go too far down that road, I remember that emotion isnt worth almost $7M for those 2 in a cap world.

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04-26-2013, 10:23 AM
  #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
If the Rangers had traded Kreider instead of Dubinsky, how much better is this team right now?
Are you saying you would've rather traded Kreider than Dubi? Ridiculous if so.

Dubinsky is vastly overpaid and overrated, not to mention his cap hit next year would be crippling.

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04-26-2013, 10:30 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I've found myself saying it a couple times, along with Prust. Not particularly for their talent, but they both had the ability to put a spark to the team. Theres been so many times where I feel like the team is operating until this cloud of malaise. Even in the 3rd period last night, with the playoffs on the line, there wasnt much emotion.

But before I go too far down that road, I remember that emotion isnt worth almost $7M for those 2 in a cap world.

Prust, yes. Dubinsky, no.

To me, Dubinsky at times was the hockey version of a rally killer watching him make horseshoes going from point to behind the net to point with the puck and then never doing anything with it.

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04-26-2013, 10:38 AM
  #732
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When are we gonna see Kreider getting some minutes in the big club? It doesn't look like Torts have any confidants in the youngster.

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04-26-2013, 10:57 AM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
If the Rangers had traded Kreider instead of Dubinsky, how much better is this team right now?
Not that much better because we wouldn't have the depth, due to Dubi's cap hit

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04-26-2013, 10:58 AM
  #734
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Coach vs GM conflict... Kreider isn't ready. He doesn't show it at all.

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04-26-2013, 11:11 AM
  #735
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I fully expect Kreider to make the team and get decent minutes next year. This season was a mess on so many levels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
If the Rangers had traded Kreider instead of Dubinsky, how much better is this team right now?
Not much better. Dubi's cap hit is still way, wayyyy too high for his production.

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04-26-2013, 02:43 PM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Prust, yes. Dubinsky, no.

To me, Dubinsky at times was the hockey version of a rally killer watching him make horseshoes going from point to behind the net to point with the puck and then never doing anything with it.
He's doing something w/ it in Columbus.

My final attempt to defend Dubi v. Kreider. Puck Daddy posted FO% rankings over past couple weeks:

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04-26-2013, 02:47 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
He's doing something w/ it in Columbus.
If you want to consider 1 goal and 17 assists "doing something with it". All that with a 4.2M price tag.

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04-26-2013, 03:11 PM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If you want to consider 1 goal and 17 assists "doing something with it". All that with a 4.2M price tag.
Let me try to relate my concern to Kreider and move on, because I don't discount your point about salary.

My concern is the Rangers are missing Centers who win faceoffs, hit, play D, and can possess the puck in the O zone. All so they can grab as many guys who can score goals on paper or have the potential to, and then wonder why the team is inconsistent. It's inconsistent because scoring is not just about having guys who finish plays, it's about playing well across the whole rink, and retaining a structured game. It's not the NBA, you can't just hand the puck to some guy in the offensive half and let him go 1-on-1.

I could be wrong, I certainly don't think Dubi and Kreider will seal anyones fate here, but they better move forward in a way that plugs that hole (and token point shot defenseman comment) or they'll never win.

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04-26-2013, 03:44 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
If you want to consider 1 goal and 17 assists "doing something with it". All that with a 4.2M price tag.
To be fair, he has those 17 assists in only 28 games. He's had a good season when he's played.

That said, yeah, I would not have included Kreider in that trade over Dubinsky.

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04-26-2013, 03:53 PM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
Let me try to relate my concern to Kreider and move on, because I don't discount your point about salary.

My concern is the Rangers are missing Centers who win faceoffs, hit, play D, and can possess the puck in the O zone. All so they can grab as many guys who can score goals on paper or have the potential to, and then wonder why the team is inconsistent. It's inconsistent because scoring is not just about having guys who finish plays, it's about playing well across the whole rink, and retaining a structured game. It's not the NBA, you can't just hand the puck to some guy in the offensive half and let him go 1-on-1.

I could be wrong, I certainly don't think Dubi and Kreider will seal anyones fate here, but they better move forward in a way that plugs that hole (and token point shot defenseman comment) or they'll never win.
I don't really see many, if any, one-dimensional goal scorers on the team at this point. Yeah, it's great to have centers who can play a tough, puck possession game, but you have to take the cap into account as well as the fact that Dubi is years and years ahead of Kreider in terms of development and Dubi has now had two disappointing seasons in a row in terms of production compared to what is expected of him. Also, The Rangers are among the best in the league in terms of GA/G and they are lagging far behind in G/G. Stats don't tell the whole story, but I think it's clear that they need help putting the puck in the other teams' net more than they need help keeping it out of their own.

I agree that the team is too inconsistent, but to me, Dubi wouldn't have changed that much. He's about as inconsistent as players come these days. As for Kreider, it's way too early to put any labels on him, but I think he'll provide scoring on a level that Dubi didn't and couldn't, therefore I think it's better that they kept him.

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04-26-2013, 04:06 PM
  #741
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Kreider still has the potential to be a better offensive player than Dubi so I wouldn't have traded Kreider over Dubi.

However, we certainly could have used Dubi's physicality, PK ability, and puck possession game this year. He would be on pace for around 50 assists if this was an 82-game season. Still overpaid but from what I've seen he's been playing better than last year.

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04-26-2013, 05:14 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleury4ever View Post
Let me try to relate my concern to Kreider and move on, because I don't discount your point about salary.

My concern is the Rangers are missing Centers who win faceoffs, hit, play D, and can possess the puck in the O zone. All so they can grab as many guys who can score goals on paper or have the potential to, and then wonder why the team is inconsistent. It's inconsistent because scoring is not just about having guys who finish plays, it's about playing well across the whole rink, and retaining a structured game. It's not the NBA, you can't just hand the puck to some guy in the offensive half and let him go 1-on-1.

I could be wrong, I certainly don't think Dubi and Kreider will seal anyones fate here, but they better move forward in a way that plugs that hole (and token point shot defenseman comment) or they'll never win.
Do you honestly think players like Dubinsky are the key to winning? We're not suffering from a lack of grit or giving up too many goals. Our problem is that our powerplay sucks and the scoring is touch and go. He doesn't fix either of those problems.

Dubi wasn't playing center for us most of the time anyway. Plus, he was never that great of a defender. Nobody would mistake him for Callahan in his own zone. Contending teams can't afford to pay offensively inconsistent, high effort guys $4.2 million cap hits. Besides, we have a young defensive center who's strong in the faceoff dot coming in Lindberg.

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04-30-2013, 09:05 AM
  #743
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Happy Birthday to Chris Kreider. He turns 22 today.

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04-30-2013, 10:25 AM
  #744
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Kreider and playoffs should be like apple pie and ice cream.

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04-30-2013, 11:59 AM
  #745
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Happy Birthday to Chris Kreider. He turns 22 today.
Rangers who elevated their game at 22/23 yrs old:

Lundqvist
Callahan
Staal
Girardi
Mcdonagh
Stepan

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04-30-2013, 02:35 PM
  #746
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Get it Chris. Hopefully he can get his confidence back and contribute as a top 9 forward. As much as some people on this board don't think he deserves it we need him to be confident and provide some offensive pop 5 on 5 (its obvious he won't get powerplay time).

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04-30-2013, 02:57 PM
  #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Happy Birthday to Chris Kreider. He turns 22 today.
Yup. Thank you.

....and that is where this discussion ends. For me at least.

Young guy trying to mature and find his way. All the talent and tools in the world. He just needs people to be patient and give him the time to get his mind around the reality of playing in NHL.

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04-30-2013, 02:59 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Yup. Thank you.

....and that is where this discussion ends. For me at least.

Young guy trying to mature and find his way. All the talent and tools in the world. He just needs people to be patient and give him the time to get his mind around the reality of playing in NHL.
Been a humbling year, Im sure.

Lets hope he has a good playoffs, and spends the summer finding his game.

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04-30-2013, 04:44 PM
  #749
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Rangers who elevated their game at 22/23 yrs old:

Lundqvist
Callahan
Staal
Girardi
Mcdonagh
Stepan
Really don't see any comparsion--every player you mention had already played several years professionally (in the NHL actually--except for Lundqvist who had already played several years in the SEL) by the time they were 22/23 years old. If anything, thinking about the players on your list makes it even more obvious that Kreider needs more time to adjust to the way the game is played professionally.

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04-30-2013, 05:03 PM
  #750
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Really don't see any comparsion--every player you mention had already played several years professionally (in the NHL actually--except for Lundqvist who had already played several years in the SEL) by the time they were 22/23 years old. If anything, thinking about the players on your list makes it even more obvious that Kreider needs more time to adjust to the way the game is played professionally.
No, not every player on that list played several years before 22/23 yrs old.

Everyone on that list, first year, 21yrs old or over, sans Staal, he was 20 his first full year. And only Hank and Stepan were top performers their first year Pro.

Kreiders first full year was not even a full season.

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