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What's your opinion on PK Subban ?

View Poll Results: What do you think of Subban ?
Always liked him, still do. 189 63.00%
Didnt like him back then, now I do. 26 8.67%
Liked him back then, now I don't. 16 5.33%
Never liked the guy, never will. 69 23.00%
Voters: 300. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-25-2013, 10:53 PM
  #76
TopShelfYzerman
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
If I was a fan of another team that played against him often, I would hate him so much as a player, plus a lot of annoying antics, but if you ever watch his sport game interviews or when he worked for sportsnet during the lockout, so mature, and so much respect for in the game in the sense that he leaves everything on the ice.

IMO some of the issues is that he is simply a fan and loves to play hockey, and he has a lot too much energy, everyone of his little fights with his teammates was because Subban was taking practice too seriously.
he got into physical fights with his team mates? WOW

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04-25-2013, 11:17 PM
  #77
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He's from Rexdale. So I like him.

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04-25-2013, 11:21 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Habs hockey games with Subban in it is what I meant lol. He has been cool, calm and relaxed this season, and far from media attention.
Yes, I was obviously refering to Habs games. If you go through the thread, you'll notice that we're just re-ashing bad habits (or misinterpreted good habits, according to some). As for myself, while I still see flaws in his game and on ice attitude, I commend him on this years' turnaround, as I stated earlier. I'm just not convinced that the "good behaviour" is permanent. Could be, could not. He's still only a few months removed from a hold out for money that, at the time, he didn't deserve. He is however holding his end of the bargain in order to obtain the contract he wants, and good on him. We'll see if once he does this behaviour will come along with it.

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04-25-2013, 11:37 PM
  #79
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PK Subban is freaking awesome. He's a character...does he need to have every interview be "yeah, you know, pucks to the net obviously", when all of HF Complains about that crap?

The Subban bros are great for the NHL.

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04-26-2013, 12:49 AM
  #80
Bob Loblawbrovsky
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Leafs fan. Always liked him, still do.

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04-26-2013, 01:27 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
Lol, but that's exactly it though! You're doing it right now. Getting into altercations with teammates at practice, Markov's "no comment" interview. But then you'll spin it into something positive. I posted the videos of 3 different altercations in previous threads and no one aknowledges them.

It's like...


Anyway, for what it's worth, he's stepped it up this year although aspects of his game, mostly the turtling, is quite annoying, and I know it annoys other Habs fans as well, but all and all he's taken a step in the right direction, so thumbs up to him for that.
You're exactly the type of person I was talking about in my post. But the irony in your post is just plain astonishing. That blinders image could be applied to you - you don't take these altercations in context, you infer your own context to blow a small issue WAY out of proportion. Have you seen how the team acts around Subban? Christ man, if you're going to argue, at least be reasonable.

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04-26-2013, 01:30 AM
  #82
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Hawks fan (w/ leafs as my #2 team)...subban is one of my fave players in the nhl.

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04-26-2013, 01:32 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
Omg... If you must, but trying to discredit my argument because I don't want to look for those videos a 3rd time, quite lame. Here you go dude:





As for Kostsitsyn, sure, but PK's hold out for money he didn't deserve (at that point) is the same thing. Anyway I'm done arguing. We can discuss when you take off the bleu blanc rouge glasses and can call a spade a spade.
You talk about people ignoring his character flaws. I call you out on making them up. You tell me that I'm just ignoring his flaws. There was no holdout for money he didn't deserve. He deserved FAR MORE than what he signed for. But wow.... you've astounded me with your hypocrisy.

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04-26-2013, 08:21 AM
  #84
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Great player. A bit overrated though.

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04-26-2013, 11:29 AM
  #85
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I'll always remember game 7 in 2011 when the Bruins were winning by a goal and he launched a BOMB from the point that just rocketed right into the corner over Timmy's shoulder.

EDIT: forgot to mention there was 57 seconds left in the game.

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04-26-2013, 11:31 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Ewan McGregor View Post
Inconsistent, overrated
just like the guy in your'e profile pic.

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04-26-2013, 11:49 AM
  #87
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just like the guy in your'e profile pic.
Do you realize how childish you sound? The OP's question is what do people think of PK. What kind of reply is that? Grow up dude.

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04-26-2013, 12:37 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jerk Store View Post
Do you realize how childish you sound? The OP's question is what do people think of PK. What kind of reply is that? Grow up dude.
To be fair,

my question was more about how do you feel about him I guess, if we take into consideration the poll options.

The guy coulda just said dont like him, the 'overrated and inconsistent' while maybe being true, only 1 elite season so far so we'll see how he pans out, is uncalled for.

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04-26-2013, 12:42 PM
  #89
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Massively overrated (but he plays in a big Canadian market so it's not shocking at all that this would happen).

The guy is having a good 48 game PP season. That's it.

He's not dominant defensively. He's not dominant at 5 on 5, 4 on 4.

His PP numbers will quickly come back down to earth next season and the real Norris contenders will come back into the fray - Doughty, Chara, Weber, we'll see if Suter can repeat over an 82 game schedule.

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04-26-2013, 12:59 PM
  #90
Talks to Goalposts
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Massively overrated (but he plays in a big Canadian market so it's not shocking at all that this would happen).

The guy is having a good 48 game PP season. That's it.

He's not dominant defensively. He's not dominant at 5 on 5, 4 on 4.

His PP numbers will quickly come back down to earth next season and the real Norris contenders will come back into the fray - Doughty, Chara, Weber, we'll see if Suter can repeat over an 82 game schedule.
That's simply isn't true. He is dominant 5 on 5, just not in Karlsson's "score a ton of points" way. Whenever Subban steps on the ice on even strength his team becomes outlandishly more effective by any measure. Two years running his presence means goals for go up, goals against go down and the Habs puck possession measurements go through the roof. He's one of the most measurably effective 5 on 5 defenders in the league.

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04-26-2013, 01:10 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
That's simply isn't true. He is dominant 5 on 5, just not in Karlsson's "score a ton of points" way. Whenever Subban steps on the ice on even strength his team becomes outlandishly more effective by any measure. Two years running his presence means goals for go up, goals against go down and the Habs puck possession measurements go through the roof. He's one of the most measurably effective 5 on 5 defenders in the league.
Do not bother. A quick glance at his post history shows this guy is all over Subban threads spewing garbage.

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Old
04-26-2013, 01:47 PM
  #92
Novak Djokovic
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P.K. Subban, on ice: Never liked him and never will.

Off ice: I like him.

He's so polite and "correct" off-ice, but I dislike his antics on ice.

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04-26-2013, 03:15 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
That's simply isn't true. He is dominant 5 on 5, just not in Karlsson's "score a ton of points" way. Whenever Subban steps on the ice on even strength his team becomes outlandishly more effective by any measure. Two years running his presence means goals for go up, goals against go down and the Habs puck possession measurements go through the roof. He's one of the most measurably effective 5 on 5 defenders in the league.
Emelin is more effective 5 on 5 than Subban. There's a reason the Habs have been imploding ever since he went down.

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04-26-2013, 03:36 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by peon View Post
Emelin is more effective 5 on 5 than Subban. There's a reason the Habs have been imploding ever since he went down.
Yes, and that reason isnt Emelin. Try again.

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04-26-2013, 03:47 PM
  #95
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Emelin is more effective 5 on 5 than Subban. There's a reason the Habs have been imploding ever since he went down.
BS. Subban's presence is the margin of the Habs top level 5 on 5 play this season. With him on the ice they are dominant, without him they are average.

I prepared this for the Karlsson vs Subban poll that got closed.

At worst they are effectively equals. But a good case could be made that Subban is the more effective 5 on 5 player.

Karlsson's big selling point is the incredible amount of points he puts up 5 on 5. But if you look at on ice result in total it becomes apparent that this does not translate into as large of a tangible advantage for his team as commonly assumed.

Over the past 2 season's when Karlsson is on the ice 5 on 5 his team's scoring goes up by about half a goal every 60 minutes (.518). Which is huge. But Subban also has a significant effect, his team gets .471 more goals per 60 minutes 5 on 5 compared to their average, which is almost as much.

The thing with Karlsson though, is that his presence doesn't correlate with his team giving up less goals against, defensively Karlsson's minutes are indistinguishable from his teammates. Subban on the other hand, has a massive correlation with reducing opposition scoring, to the tune of .51 less goals against per 60 minutes 5 on 5.

As a result, when Subban is on the ice 5 on 5 over the past 2 seasons, his team has 61.3% of the goals scored in his favour, a 10.33% advantage over his team average, while Karlsson is on the ice his team gets 55.3% of the goals in their favour, an advantage of 4.81% over his team average. In shot differential terms its more even but Subban still has the advantage.

Neither player has much of an advantage in usage terms than would significantly skew these results either, both average their use as their team's top pairing puck moving defensemen that play something of a shutdown role but aren't used as heavily on defense as other top shutdown pairings. They play in the same divison, so no advantage to either in terms of schedule. And averaging the past two years, neither player's team has been much better than the other on even strength.

Subban pushes result on both the offensive and defensive side of things while Karlsson effectively is only pushing results offensively. Karlsson does appear to have good skills for defense, but it appears that he leverages them to get away with more offensive risks rather than truly suppress opposition scoring. Subban's puck possession style doesn't look as spectacular and doesn't allow him to rack up massive 5 on 5 point totals, but it helps his team be more effective on both sides off the puck, which is what we should actually care about and not point totals.

The trend I think has been for Karlsson's boosters to try and have their cake and eat it too. They point to his huge 5 on 5 scoring totals as a sign of his offensive dominance, and point to watching him play in his own zone to his defensive dominance. But the numbers do not support him being all that effective defensively. If you want to credit him for his defensive effectiveness, you have to acknowledge that he's using it to take more offensive risks than any other defensemen to boost his scoring totals rather than to effectively reduce opposition scoring. He's either the league's best offensive defenseman and purely average on defense or one of the league's many top two-way defensemen, similar to the likes of Subban, Chara, Letang etc. who has been given the most leave to take offensive risks. If he was the amazing force, so far above the field on defense that his boosters claim, simply put his results would have been better than they have been.

There are vanishingly few defensemen whose presence correlate as strongly to their team's 5 on 5 success over the past two seasons as Subban has to the Habs. Chara and Letang are the best comparables.

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04-26-2013, 03:52 PM
  #96
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So the 4 other players on the ice are offensive difference makers and Subban never plays with the 4th line, rarely the 3rd.

That's the takeaway here. Oh - his numbers also inflate over this season, a shortened one.

He is not a difference maker at 5 on 5 or it would show up in his point production. It never - I repeat- NEVER has and it never will because it's non-existent. You can use stats and interpret them incorrectly but it still does not change this simple fact.

I'm not going to debate this over and over with different people - especially Edmonton Oilers fans after that Horcoff thread.

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Old
04-26-2013, 03:57 PM
  #97
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I feel the way I've always felt. Hate his guts. Would love him on my team. Thus I picked "Like and still like".

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04-26-2013, 03:58 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Bruinswillwin77 View Post
I'll always remember game 7 in 2011 when the Bruins were winning by a goal and he launched a BOMB from the point that just rocketed right into the corner over Timmy's shoulder.

EDIT: forgot to mention there was 57 seconds left in the game.
After they called a ludicrous penalty on Patrice Bergeron. But it's moot because the Bruins won anyway and we got a great classic playoff moment out of the OT period.

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04-26-2013, 04:01 PM
  #99
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PK is one of my top 5 favorite players and I get a lot of flak from other B's fans... Here's hoping he finds his way to Boston eventually

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04-26-2013, 04:18 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by peon View Post
Emelin is more effective 5 on 5 than Subban. There's a reason the Habs have been imploding ever since he went down.
Emelin and Markov together were both defensive liabilities before Emelin went down.

He is not more effective 5 on 5.

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