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Old
04-26-2013, 03:49 PM
  #26
pucka lucka
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I don't think there is any plan where Trouba starts in the minors. Top end NCAA defensemen jump to the NHL. A high end defensive prospect who dominates NCAA as a freshman going to the minors? I really don't see it.

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04-26-2013, 03:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
I don't think there is any plan where Trouba starts in the minors. Top end NCAA defensemen jump to the NHL. A high end defensive prospect who dominates NCAA as a freshman going to the minors? I really don't see it.
I hope he is in the NHL. I don't believe in putting expectations on players who haven't played minute one of pro hockey, though. I'd rather plan for a season without him and be happily surprised when he is here.

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04-26-2013, 04:02 PM
  #28
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I'm not sold on the size thing. This team got substantially larger this year and didn't manage to do much with it. If you have size but no speed, then it's a wash.

If I had to have one or the other, and not both, I'd take speed any day. Team is big enough, lets get faster.

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04-26-2013, 04:04 PM
  #29
Howard Chuck
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Fix the 2nd line!

When Olli was up there, they sucked defensively and sucked at puck possession.

A 2nd line that spends more time in the offensive zone will help with offense and take pressure of the D. If you can roll two line that out-shoot and outscore the opposition at the top of your roster, you are going to win more than you lose.
Here here! I completely agree. This is where we need to improve most of all.

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04-26-2013, 04:05 PM
  #30
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Legit question here to start: if we bring in a goaltender that is anything other than a backup, will Jets management bother to play him? I'm not talking a Bernier, I'm talking a Khudobin, Griess, etc. There really seems to be something going on with the management side of things. Sure Montoya was hurt for stretches, but not THAT much. Saw the same last year with Mason who was generally healthy but hardly got playing time. Statistically speaking, Pavelec isn't that great, needs a push, something. Will management allow that to happen at all? Or are they wedded hard and fast to the contract they signed (they need to look at Vancouver and see that you want a guy to perform and if that means the "lesser" guy gets more starts, so be it).

Defense:
Enstrom, Bogo, Postma, Redmond keep.
Re-sign Clitsome, maybe Kulda
Let Hainsey walk unless he gives a home town bargain, so yeah, walking.
See what Trouba can do - keep him for bottom minutes and if he can work up further great. If he's not ready, send him down.

I love Buff but I think you really have to move him. Hopefully the return you get is second line help for Kaner and maybe a 2nd pairing D guy. Or that second line guy and moving up in the draft, or is that not enough?

Forwards
Re-sign Little (4 years) and Wheeler (5-6 years). If Antropov takes a pay cut to establish on the third line then I'm all for re-signing him. He frustrates me but I see his value too.

Let Scheifele play with Kane on the second line if he can keep up and isn't a liability. There will be growing pains, no doubt.

Jokinen can't be that bad again next year can he?

Burmistrov gets a lower end 2 year prove-it contract. I still like him on the PK and still have hopes for him but the blind love is fading.

I still like Slater and unless we find another face off guy, I felt we missed him a fair bit while he was hurt. He's signed anyway, so let's leave him on the fourth line. I like Peluso/Tangradi/Wright at the right price point.

I never got attached to Santorelli. Thorburn is fine but I've no delusions about the guy, he can go.

Goalie - I'd actually be fine with re-signing Montoya so long as the Jets will actually let him play. I'd like to see him start 20-30 games and think he could have handled it. That might be the push Pavs needed to step up more.
Otherwise I'd like to see them go after a guy like Bernier or someone else that might be available that can fill those 20-30 games and maybe challenge for starter status. With as much as we're paying Pavelec, even if someone else supplants him we're still better off financially than Vancouver. I still like Pavelec but see the arguments against him. I think there's a lack of motivation to be consistently good though because good or bad, you can all but guarantee he's starting again next game, even if it's a back to back.

Guys I'd like to see the Jets go after? Either via trade or free agency.
Shattenkirk.
Statsny.
Simmonds.
Duchene

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04-26-2013, 04:06 PM
  #31
pucka lucka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
I hope he is in the NHL. I don't believe in putting expectations on players who haven't played minute one of pro hockey, though. I'd rather plan for a season without him and be happily surprised when he is here.
I am going by how they are handling him and his performance. How many other freshman defenceman can we name that have done what he's done? How many forwards? Most that leave for the NHL after their freshmen year are pretty elite. Kessel, Toews are 2 off the top of my head.

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Old
04-26-2013, 04:21 PM
  #32
Flair Hay
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Really like the idea of picking up Briere. Could be tough with his NTC but if he's bought out we'll have just enough coin to make it happen.

Between Scheifele, Trouba and maybe Lowry, we should be inserting some more skill in the lineup overall. It comes with drawbacks in experience, but Briere would certainly be able to help with that base on his history in big games.

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Old
04-26-2013, 05:55 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
I am going by how they are handling him and his performance. How many other freshman defenceman can we name that have done what he's done? How many forwards? Most that leave for the NHL after their freshmen year are pretty elite. Kessel, Toews are 2 off the top of my head.
That is all well and good, but IMHO where teams go wrong is to bank on a player performing in a certain role on the big club when their pro performance is a total unknown.

Who knows? Trouba might walk onto the Jets roster and right into the top 4. He might stun the league a la Karlsson. But when you start planning your season around players in roles that you have no idea if they can handle, you are in big trouble.

Plan for a year without Trouba being a meaningful player in Winnipeg. If he ends up here, contributing, consider it a bonus.

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Old
04-26-2013, 06:50 PM
  #34
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My plan to improve (in no particular order):

1) Continue to draft and develop well - the implication with the word 'continue' is debatable I suppose, but I like what we've done in that department so far. This is the only way to build a team for continued, long-term success IMO.

2) Trade Buff for help up front plus - the point of this is to improve the offense, shake up the core, and rid the team of a "sometimes" player. I'm also frightened about how early and fast Buff's decline will occur because of his physique so I'd like to deal him while his value is reasonably high.

3) Acquire a legitimate 1B goaltender to push Pavelec - As I've always said, I hope to be proven wrong but I don't see Pavelec as the goalie that will get us to the promised land. I don't think he's above average in anything except athleticism (that includes puck playing, positioning, awareness, rebound control, and consistency).

4) Be opportunistic and creative in the unique trade market this offseason - It's impossible to elaborate on this because the possibilities are endless, but I could spend hours on Capgeek looking at each team's cap situation and future contracts. Good roster players will be available via trade because of the cap going down (see Ladd, Andrew for a historical example of how a good player can be acquired because of a cap crunch).

5) Play WAY less passive team defense - please god, no more backing up all the way on top of Pavs and letting opposing players freely move the puck around the perimeter as though we are perpetually killing a penalty.

I can't wait to see how this offseason unfolds. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint!

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Old
04-26-2013, 06:52 PM
  #35
YWGinYYZ
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Haven't listened to the player media scrum, but according to Lawless, at least a couple of them mentioned they knew there had to be changes in the player personnel for next year. Interesting when the players themselves realize something needs to happen to move things forward. Anyone else hear this, and which players said it?

Edit: great points Stej.

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Old
04-26-2013, 07:23 PM
  #36
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TSN showed a fair bit of the players' scrum, mostly Bogo, Little and Pavelec speaking. All three plus Kane said they anticipate changes coming due to not making playoffs and reality of lots of guys either RFA or UFA. None of their comments seemed to imply that change was needed, rather it was probable because that's the nature of the beast.

I like the idea of moving Buff for suitable 2nd liner for #9. Kane is far too valuable of an asset to not obtain support for his production possibilities. Buff's missed production will hopefully be outweighed by the scoring the Jets would be acquiring in exchange.

I wonder if any opportunities will arise from teams buying out the big contract. Maybe some good talent to be found for better rate/term.

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Old
04-26-2013, 07:43 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
Haven't listened to the player media scrum, but according to Lawless, at least a couple of them mentioned they knew there had to be changes in the player personnel for next year. Interesting when the players themselves realize something needs to happen to move things forward. Anyone else hear this, and which players said it?

Edit: great points Stej.
Ladd and Little are two I've seen so far. Pavelec indicated he simply wasn't good enough, and was going to "make changes" to his game in the summer.

According to the Sun, Miettenen has pretty much admitted he won't be back.

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Old
04-26-2013, 08:05 PM
  #38
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Brogosian your proposal is pretty much dead even with what I've been saying. Although we disagree on Trouba, I think trading Buff and Stuart are key. We need forward help, and if we re-sign everyone except for Meech we have the assets to trade. Even if Hainsey goes elsewhere we can still afford to trade Buff as we have 5 RHD. I see Kulda being matched with Bogosian as a pure shut down line in the far future. Give it to Bogosian to get out of the zone. The past few weeks Bogosian and Hainsey were really stepping up their game. Any time you can shut down a guy like JT and even score against him, you have potential for an elite shut down line.

Our D situation is more black and white than our forward situation. It's our middle 6 that is the problem. The only players I want back are Kane and Burmistrov. Jokinen should only stay if we have the cap space. If we don't, we should buy him out. On our bottom line Wright, Slater, and Thorburn are still under contract. I wouldn't mind seeing Thorburn go, but would like Peluso signed as that makes Thorburn and Stuart more expendable. Other than those four guys, keep one of Tangradi, Santorelli, or Gagnon at most. We just have too many of these bottom 6 guys that don't produce. Too bad Fehr isn't available to be our 2nd/3rd RW. We should go after guys like Weiss and trade for Simmonds. I wouldn't be averse to signing Jagr either, we could use a right handed shot in the circle on the PP. I also wouldn't be averse to trading some of our draft picks.

Just throwing this out there without $$$:

Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Kane - Weiss - Jagr
Burmistrov - Jokinen - Simmonds
Wright - Slater - Peluso
Thorburn

Enstrom - Redmond
Hainsey - Bogosian
Clitsome - Trouba
Kulda - Postma

It would be tough to fit that under the cap, but without Hainsey it could be done.

ninja edit : Could add Scheifele and take out Jagr, that would work easily.


Last edited by allan5oh: 04-26-2013 at 08:48 PM.
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Old
04-26-2013, 08:53 PM
  #39
pucka lucka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
That is all well and good, but IMHO where teams go wrong is to bank on a player performing in a certain role on the big club when their pro performance is a total unknown.

Who knows? Trouba might walk onto the Jets roster and right into the top 4. He might stun the league a la Karlsson. But when you start planning your season around players in roles that you have no idea if they can handle, you are in big trouble.

Plan for a year without Trouba being a meaningful player in Winnipeg. If he ends up here, contributing, consider it a bonus.
I am not sure where you are getting the banking on part from. He's being handled like players who have had the same progression vector. It's not unreasonable to keep him on that path until he demonstrates he requires something different. He isn't coming from Junior. He was exceptional as a true freshman against men. There are no guarantees of course, but there is no reason to believe he won't be on the team next year.

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Old
04-26-2013, 08:57 PM
  #40
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How do we improve?
Two words:
Save Percentage...
Don't care how you do it, just do it.
Secondary wish-list item would be another top6 piece.

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04-26-2013, 09:30 PM
  #41
Bob E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
That is all well and good, but IMHO where teams go wrong is to bank on a player performing in a certain role on the big club when their pro performance is a total unknown.

Who knows? Trouba might walk onto the Jets roster and right into the top 4. He might stun the league a la Karlsson. But when you start planning your season around players in roles that you have no idea if they can handle, you are in big trouble.

Plan for a year without Trouba being a meaningful player in Winnipeg. If he ends up here, contributing, consider it a bonus.
Completely agree. He's a 19 year old kid, with zero pro experience.

If he plays with Team USA at the Worlds, it will be interesting to see what his role is, how many minutes he gets, etc.

Now, if he goes there and out-performs some of the other US dmen who play in the NHL, does that change people's expectations? Do you then pencil him in, in the top 6 or maybe 4? When Taser went over for team Canada and did pretty well, that helped his situation the following year with Chicago.

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04-26-2013, 09:50 PM
  #42
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The biggest opportunity for improvement is on the 2nd line. We currently only have 1/3rd of a 2nd line, namely Kane. I'd like to to see Kane/Scheifele/Burmistrov on the 2nd line. Heck, they could potentially compete with LLW as far as being our first line. For 3rd and 4th centres I see Slater competing with one of Antropov/Jokinen. I'm strongly tempted to re-sign Antropov and buy out Jokinen.

It'll be interesting to see what UFAs are available due to the cap-crunch. Maybe even trade Byfuglien for a forward if we don't lose too many other of our current Dmen.

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04-26-2013, 10:01 PM
  #43
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Line mates for Kane is all I can ask for, Selanne? But if we cant get a UFA top 6 I say trade Enstrom or maybe Buff for one. I dont think we have much of a problem for goaltending, pavs made some big saves this year and was probably tired due to playing all but what, 4 games? Really wouldnt mind someone to push pavs as some of you said. But if not, I think Montoya is a solid #2 goalie. I want to re sign Hainsey though. Mainly because I want to see him score

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04-26-2013, 10:15 PM
  #44
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First thing I would do is bring in a 1 B goalie like Bernier to push or supplant Pavelec. Stronger goaltending will advance us forward the most.

Buff should be traded to get a legit Top 6 Rw player that fits the age of the core. I think this does two things, shakes up the core by taking out a player that clearly doesn't give 100% to his career. It could also fill a position of need.

Try to land guys like Staberg and Morrow in FA to round out the third line.

Give Scheifele a shot on the 2nd line and Trouba a shot on the bottom pairing.

A second pairing LHD is also needed as I don't think we can go into next year with 3 inexperienced defenseman playing every night.

LLW
Kane/Scheifele/Aquisition
Morrow/Burmie/Staberg
Tangradi/Slater/Wright

Toby/Bogosian
Xxx/Redmond
Clitsome/Trouba

Pavs
Bernier

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Old
04-26-2013, 10:30 PM
  #45
pucka lucka
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People seem to underestimate Buff's trade value. Buff gets you a lot more than a top 6 winger. Some perspective, Goligoski got James Neal and Niskanen. Buff has been top 5 in d-points all his years as a full-time defenseman in the NHL.

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04-26-2013, 10:50 PM
  #46
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People seem to underestimate Buff's trade value. Buff gets you a lot more than a top 6 winger. Some perspective, Goligoski got James Neal and Niskanen. Buff has been top 5 in d-points all his years as a full-time defenseman in the NHL.
Does he get you Simmonds and Grossmann or Brayden and Luke Schenn? Either one of those deals appeal to me.

Especially if we can somehow wrestle another top 10 1st rd pick away from someone.

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04-26-2013, 10:57 PM
  #47
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I think most people are assuming we'd get something like Simmonds + for Buff.

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04-27-2013, 12:26 AM
  #48
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First thing I would do is bring in a 1 B goalie like Bernier to push or supplant Pavelec. Stronger goaltending will advance us forward the most.
If we bring in Bernier, it'll be Pavelec pushing to try and get a few starts.

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04-27-2013, 12:54 AM
  #49
surixon
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If we bring in Bernier, it'll be Pavelec pushing to try and get a few starts.
I wouldn't have an issue with that.

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04-27-2013, 12:59 AM
  #50
garret9
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If we bring in Bernier, it'll be Pavelec pushing to try and get a few starts.
Mhmm.

We forget that even Montoya was going to have back-to-back starts and was pushing for them prior to getting injured.

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