HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Does Danny Briere win the Conn Smythe in 2010...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-24-2013, 12:29 AM
  #1
Christian Litscher
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,031
vCash: 500
Does Danny Briere win the Conn Smythe in 2010...

if the Flyers won the Stanley Cup?

Christian Litscher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 12:33 AM
  #2
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,407
vCash: 500
Either him or Pronger. Pronger was their MVP through the first three rounds, but Briere was in the finals.

One thing that needs to be remembered about Briere though is just how bad he was defensively, even when he was racking up points.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 12:36 AM
  #3
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
 
Broad Street Elite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,996
vCash: 500
Solid question. It really depends though on what would have occurred in the games they needed to win. Probably comes down to Briere or Pronger. Briere's 4 GWGs and +9 rating likely would have been the difference.

Broad Street Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 12:38 AM
  #4
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
 
Broad Street Elite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,996
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
One thing that needs to be remembered about Briere though is just how bad he was defensively, even when he was racking up points.
He wasn't nearly as bad in 2009-2010 as any other playoff season. The Hartnell - Briere - Leino line was a puck possession machine that year, which helped protect his defensive numbers.

Broad Street Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 07:49 AM
  #5
Scheifele
Registered User
 
Scheifele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dartmouth
Country: Canada
Posts: 51
vCash: 500
I had figured it was going to be Pronger at the time, but Briere definitely had a great final round. It's too bad Pronger is never going to get his CS.

Scheifele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 08:45 AM
  #6
vadim sharifijanov
thanks chris
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,395
vCash: 500
can't imagine it doesn't go to pronger.

precedents:

- that very year, toews was the CS favourite through the first three rounds, but kane was the guy in the finals. toews still wins it. (my vote would have gone to keith, actually)

- niedermayer wins over a few guys who are close because he's "owed" one from previous years.

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 12:59 PM
  #7
FakeKidPoker*
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,676
vCash: 500
Kane should have won it for the Hawks but no way the writers were going to give it to him after what happened in the Cab The Summer before.

FakeKidPoker* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 02:34 PM
  #8
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Boucher would have. Because it would have required sitting Leighton back down and starting Boucher (as they SHOULD have) for them to win the Cup.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 02:40 PM
  #9
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Eye Monster Invictus
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 61,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Boucher would have. Because it would have required sitting Leighton back down and starting Boucher (as they SHOULD have) for them to win the Cup.
I don't think so. Unless Boucher turned into Thomas or late 80s Hextall, that isn't happening. He was shielded by that team.

__________________
Saturday night, I like to raise a little harm. I'll sleep when I'm dead.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 02:54 PM
  #10
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I don't think so. Unless Boucher turned into Thomas or late 80s Hextall, that isn't happening. He was shielded by that team.
probably wouldn't have ACTUALLY won it... but he was definitely better than Leighton. The Flyers played a much "safer" game when Boucher was injured after the playoffs starter and Leighton came in. But Boucher has had playoff success in the past and was still a starter-caliber goalie at the time, while Leighton is barely an NHL level goalie. It's like the 1994 Wings starting Essensa over Osgood, even though Osgood was a rookie. Osgood had ripped the starting job out of Cheveldae's hands, leading to the trade of Cheveldae/Essensa (and the handing of the starter job to Essensa). Osgood then took his job back again, but Essensa was given preference in the playoffs... at first. He showed how much of a sieve he was and it fell to the rookie to try and bail him out; instead the series loss falls on Osgood's head as "he screwed up and cost us the Cup" when he went 3-2 in the series.

Boucher is much like Osgood in that he does not get proper credit from Flyers fans (and fans in general) for what he has achieved in his career. In 2000, the Flyers went to the conference finals. They barely scored more than 2 goals per game; a rookie Boucher completely carried the team.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 02:54 PM
  #11
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,684
vCash: 500
Pronger!

kmad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 02:59 PM
  #12
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheifele View Post
I had figured it was going to be Pronger at the time, but Briere definitely had a great final round. It's too bad Pronger is never going to get his CS.
Pronger is like Fedorov. He probably should have won at least one (Pronger 2006 and/or 2007, Fedorov 1997)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
can't imagine it doesn't go to pronger.

- niedermayer wins over a few guys who are close because he's "owed" one from previous years.
What year, exactly, was Niedermayer "owed" one for? Certainly not 1995; he was not anywhere close to NJ's top player that year. 2000? Nope. 2003? Wrong again.

The Conn Smythe is not a career award. Niedermayer won the 2004 Norris and the 2007 Smythe, both of which should have been Pronger's.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 03:04 PM
  #13
vadim sharifijanov
thanks chris
 
vadim sharifijanov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Pronger is like Fedorov. He probably should have won at least one (Pronger 2006 and/or 2007, Fedorov 1997)



What year, exactly, was Niedermayer "owed" one for? Certainly not 1995; he was not anywhere close to NJ's top player that year. 2000? Nope. 2003? Wrong again.

The Conn Smythe is not a career award. Niedermayer won the 2004 Norris and the 2007 Smythe, both of which should have been Pronger's.
i shoot, i forgot, it was yzerman who was the second best player of that playoffs

vadim sharifijanov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 03:40 PM
  #14
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Pronger is like Fedorov. He probably should have won at least one (Pronger 2006 and/or 2007, Fedorov 1997)



What year, exactly, was Niedermayer "owed" one for? Certainly not 1995; he was not anywhere close to NJ's top player that year. 2000? Nope. 2003? Wrong again.

The Conn Smythe is not a career award. Niedermayer won the 2004 Norris and the 2007 Smythe, both of which should have been Pronger's.
Niedermayer was the best player on either team in the 2003 finals by a fairly wide margin, and was overall probably the best Devil those playoffs.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 07:24 PM
  #15
Christian Litscher
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,031
vCash: 500
I only ask because historically the Conn Smythe has gone to the goaltender or the face of the franchise forward. Briere doesn't fit either of those profiles, but he had a fairly historic run statistically speaking. Pronger would be the other obvious choice and was the teams best player. But he had better runs in 06 and 07, but didn't win(not that it affects the 2010 winner).

Christian Litscher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 07:30 PM
  #16
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 123,206
vCash: 1046
Pronger would have won. Consider that the Flyers were essentially using 4 defensemen that entire run in front of replacement-level goaltending. Briere could have stolen it if he had a hat trick in the finals or something, but it was good odds that it would be Pronger.

__________________
Philadelphia's Real Alternative
(ynotradio.net)

My 50 Favorite Albums of 2015

"I wonder if Norstrom has Forsberg's spleen mounted on his wall." - KINGS17
GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 09:39 PM
  #17
Hammer Time
Registered User
 
Hammer Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,939
vCash: 500
But considering that Toews won it over Keith for Chicago, maybe voters would have done the same with a Philly victory and picked the high-scoring forward?

Hammer Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 09:49 PM
  #18
Mike Farkas
Hockey's Future Staff
Grace Personified
 
Mike Farkas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteor View Post
But considering that Toews won it over Keith for Chicago, maybe voters would have done the same with a Philly victory and picked the high-scoring forward?
Maybe, but Toews and Briere aren't in the same atmosphere defensively.

I gotta believe it would be Pronger for Philly...he helped a minor league goalie play in the Stanley Cup Finals, for crying out loud!

__________________
http://twitter.com/MichaelFarkasHF

YouTube Channel: The Two-Line Pass - Hockey news, knowledge, video breakdowns and more: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKAI...52Q577Q/videos

Latest installment:Ep. 4 - Brady Skjei Evaluation
Mike Farkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-24-2013, 11:52 PM
  #19
Hardyvan123
tweet@HardyintheWack
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
can't imagine it doesn't go to pronger.

precedents:

- that very year, toews was the CS favourite through the first three rounds, but kane was the guy in the finals. toews still wins it. (my vote would have gone to keith, actually)

- niedermayer wins over a few guys who are close because he's "owed" one from previous years.
Some voters might ahve thought they owed Pronger in 10 and maybe other Briere since Pronger already had some hardware.

Some years it's really hard to figure out what motivates some voters in how they vote.

Hardyvan123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-25-2013, 12:07 AM
  #20
LeBlondeDemon10
BlindLemon Haystacks
 
LeBlondeDemon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,241
vCash: 500
I don't see a problem with honoring two players with the CS. Briere and Pronger could have shared it if they won. The playoffs is a long journey and some guys peak in one series and others in another. In 1984 Gretzky should have won the CS, but sharing it with Messier wouldn't have been a huge crime. It takes a team to win. Same with the guys who win the CS on losing teams. There has got to be somebody worthy on the winning team that should walk away with with something. Leach (76) and Hextall (87) were great, but they played on the losing team.

LeBlondeDemon10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-25-2013, 08:25 PM
  #21
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
I don't see a problem with honoring two players with the CS. Briere and Pronger could have shared it if they won. The playoffs is a long journey and some guys peak in one series and others in another. In 1984 Gretzky should have won the CS, but sharing it with Messier wouldn't have been a huge crime. It takes a team to win. Same with the guys who win the CS on losing teams. There has got to be somebody worthy on the winning team that should walk away with with something. Leach (76) and Hextall (87) were great, but they played on the losing team.
I am one of those guys that doesn't mind seeing the Smythe go to a loser the odd time. However, there has to be a performance that is above and beyond what anyone else does, not just close but peerless. Leach fits that bill for sure. 19 goals in just three rounds of hockey (first round bye). That is incredible. Kurri tied the record in 1985 but almost 40 years later no one has beaten Leach's record. Scored a goal in 12 straight playoff games. Had a 5 goal game. Scored in the finals against Montreal regardless of the fact that they lost. Plus, it was one of those years where there was no clear dominant player on the winning side. Lafleur wasn't even close to Leach statistically and he was the best Hab.

As for the original question, you might think that Pronger wins the Smythe, but for whatever reason Pronger has never gotten the benefit of the doubt with the media. Almost reminds me of a Ted Williams type of player who just never got cozy with the media all that much. Could be surely, rude, aloof, etc. Plus, Briere led the entire postseason in points with 30. That's a lot of mustard right there. Poor defensively or not I certainly remember Briere being awfully dangerous. So yeah, I think the "anti-Pronger" thing would take effect again. Briere wouldn't be a suspicious choice either.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-25-2013, 08:36 PM
  #22
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,267
vCash: 931
Good God that did'nt happen. -Lets go PENS! Lets go PENS!

Darth Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-25-2013, 11:17 PM
  #23
LeBlondeDemon10
BlindLemon Haystacks
 
LeBlondeDemon10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,241
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I am one of those guys that doesn't mind seeing the Smythe go to a loser the odd time. However, there has to be a performance that is above and beyond what anyone else does, not just close but peerless. Leach fits that bill for sure. 19 goals in just three rounds of hockey (first round bye). That is incredible. Kurri tied the record in 1985 but almost 40 years later no one has beaten Leach's record. Scored a goal in 12 straight playoff games. Had a 5 goal game. Scored in the finals against Montreal regardless of the fact that they lost. Plus, it was one of those years where there was no clear dominant player on the winning side. Lafleur wasn't even close to Leach statistically and he was the best Hab.

As for the original question, you might think that Pronger wins the Smythe, but for whatever reason Pronger has never gotten the benefit of the doubt with the media. Almost reminds me of a Ted Williams type of player who just never got cozy with the media all that much. Could be surely, rude, aloof, etc. Plus, Briere led the entire postseason in points with 30. That's a lot of mustard right there. Poor defensively or not I certainly remember Briere being awfully dangerous. So yeah, I think the "anti-Pronger" thing would take effect again. Briere wouldn't be a suspicious choice either.
Ok, I'll go with Leach. Like you say that record has stood the test of time. Not Hextall though. As usual, Gretzky was otherworldly in the 87 playoffs and there are even arguments for Anderson and Messier. Those Flyers teams (85 and 87) were very deep and well coached. Its not like they rode Hextall to the finals.

LeBlondeDemon10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2013, 05:21 PM
  #24
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 12,285
vCash: 500
In my book, easily. He and his whole line were consistently dominant throughout the playoffs, and they never cooled down. His 12 points in 6 Stanley Cup Finals games was pretty crazy.

I could see Chris Pronger winning it, but he was pushed around a bit in the finals, including his notable -5 rating in the 7-4 loss to Chicago in game five.

shadow1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-26-2013, 08:20 PM
  #25
Wrath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,929
vCash: 500
I remember the media saying that Chris Pronger was the only reason the Flyers gave up any fight at all in the finals, calling him the true leader of the Flyers while Mike Richards was a subpar captain.


I think the media storyline was going with Pronger winning the CS if Flyers win.

Wrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.