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04-25-2013, 01:47 PM
  #51
Ishad
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Pretty shocked they aren't plugging in a guy who has only played four games this season into the most important game of the year after everyone played well last game.

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04-25-2013, 04:10 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
If you have a crystal ball that predicted this string of injuries, please give it to me now so that I can win the lottery. If you don't have the capacity to predict the future, please stop acting like this season's stats for the two validate any of your inveterately pro-Hudler opinions; you've been making this same asinine claim all season, and it has continued to have no foundation whatsoever. More, given that Samuelsson has been injured the entire season, measuring the stats of the two against each other and calling Hudler "better" makes absolutely no sense. But hey, let's give it a shot:

Abdelkader: 46 GP, 9-2-11
Spezza: 5 GP, 2-3-5

Gee, I wonder how many of the people who said "Spezza > Abdelkader" are sticking with that position right now? News: in order to compare the performance of two players, or two anythings, you need to have a viable sample size for both.

Finally, I would have been fine having nobody at all over four years of Hudler at $4m.
Spezza went PPG in 5 games. Abdelkader had four points through thirty games, two of which were goals Datsyuk banked in off of him.

Abdelkader scored 6 points in 11 games between the team's 25th and 35 games. All of those points came in two games; games 29 and 31.

Spezza was the offensive driving force on his team. Abdelkader is an offensive passenger, and often a hindrance.

Also, Spezza is a proven top offensive player while Abdelkader is a bottom sixer. Hudler and Sammy are both proven offensive players, with Hudler being significantly younger and more likely to continue yielding strong results.

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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Maybe I'm bad at counting but isn't 29 more than 26 and 56 more than 50?
But 23 is more than 18, and Franzen played 40 seconds more on the PP, and played it as a forward in a goal scoring role; Hudler played most of his PP time on the second-unit point, reducing his scoring chances on the PP. Franzen, OTOH, often played on the first unit wing with Dats and Z.

That's a significant difference in opportunity.

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Also despite playing on one of the higher scoring teams in the league Hudler is a team worst in +/- or very close to it.
Hudler also has spent the season with linemates like Roman Cervenka and Blake Comeau. It's not terribly dissimilar from the situation he was in with the Wings; he was thrown on a line with significantly less talented teammates and expected to create offense. And he did. The big differences in Calgary is that a) Kiprusoff has been terrible this season, b) Hudler has played with exactly one good defensive player (Matt Stajan) for any significant period of time, and c) Calgary doesn't really have a "defensive game" to speak of.

So basically it's like he's playing pickup hockey with other NHLers against an NHL team.

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He wasn't let go because he couldn't score, he was let go because he's now an overpaid terrible skater who is a liability defensively.
No. That was Holmstrom. Hudler wasn't Helm or prime Draper/Maltby... but he's a good skater and he's average+ defensively. He's just not a FAST skater. Skating quickly is not the same as skating well; Hudler is agile and strong on his skates. The fact that he's not Martin St. Louis doesn't mean he's a poor skater.

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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
It's just too much contract for a guy that's not somebody you want to lean on. Calgary leaned on him this year, and he did fine, but look at the standings. That's what happens when Hudler is one of your go-to guys.
Do you realize how much Samuelsson and Bertuzzi make? Hudler is a legit first-line forward; most guys at his talent level were going for more than $4m. Think about Samuelsson and Bertuzzi's deals for a second. Combined, that's about $5.1m for two years. Would you have replaced the two of them with just Hudler? I sure as hell would have; I said it then and am saying it now. Yes, Hudler's $4m/4 deal means he's more expensive at year three, but that third year is 2014-15; which is potentially the first post-Datsyuk year. Do you want to have to replace all of your forwards in one offseason, or do you want to have an established group in the top-six when losing a guy like Dats?

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And subsequently, that same argument is why people don't want to overplay Filppula. It's a very similar situation to last season. It's not that Hudler or Flip are bad players, but it's about managing your cash towards the correct assets. It's my estimation that Nyquist and Tatar will replace his production for a fraction of the cost while also adding significant and much needed speed.
Nyquist and Tatar are (based on current PPG) 25-30 point players. Which is about what Hudler did from a fourth-line role at the same age. So if you're expecting them to replace him, they might reach that level in a few years given an increase in IT/role. But they're not close right now, and none of the many posters who have claimed such in the past year or two can legitimately say they are; regardless of skating.

But Hudler is a guy you can rely on for your #1 scoring line NOW. In fact, he was on Detroit's best scoring line last season and it didn't seem to be a problem except to those who didn't like his size and/or speed. Even though he's effective in spite of those limitations.

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04-25-2013, 04:29 PM
  #53
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Yeah, still don't want the small, slow, defensively and physically weak Hudler for four years.

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04-25-2013, 04:32 PM
  #54
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I used to like Hudler, Eva has convinced me not to anymore.

He just flat out isn't worth that contract, especially if Babcock is still his bench boss. He doesn't fit the team that well, there are different options and we can turn the page.

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04-25-2013, 05:44 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I used to like Hudler, Eva has convinced me not to anymore.

He just flat out isn't worth that contract
David Jones and P.A.Parenteau signed the exact same contract, but with Colorado. Parenteau has been great (41 points) playing with Duchene, but Jones (career-high 45 points, has only broken 20 points twice) has nine points.

Going further, T.J. Oshie (20 points) signed for a slightly higher cap hit ($4.175m) and 5 years instead of four.

Saku Koivu signed for this season only at $3.8m, and has 27 points.

Chris Stewart (1yr), Chris Kelly (4yr), Mikael Samuelsson (2yr), and Sergei Kostitsyn (2yr) have $3m UFA cap hits signed last summer.

Kelly has 9 points, but is paid for his defense.
Kostitsyn has 3 goals and 15 points.
Stewart has 18 goals and 34 points.
Samuelsson we all know about.

For a few higher summer 2012 cap hits than Hudler's $4m/4, we have...

Shane Doan, $5.3m/4 (13g, 26pt, 46GP)
Ales Hemsky, $5m/2 (9g, 20pt, 38GP)
Tuomo Ruutu, $4.75m/4 (2g, 7pt, 15GP)

Chris Stewart is the only player who is clearly outperforming Hudler. And his contract was signed coming off of a season in which he scored 15 goals and 30 points in 79 games; less on both than he has now in 46 games.

Doan is a veteran, a physical player, and the "face" of the Coyotes. And he has similar offensive production to Hudler.

Hemsky, Ruutu, Kostitsyn are all clearly behind Hudler. Kelly is a different type of player and not truly a comparable; a better comparable for Kelly would be Helm.

So Hudler is clearly not overpaid based on contracts signed on the UFA market last season and how those players have performed.

Quote:
there are different options and we can turn the page.
Do these options play for the Wings? How much will these options cost to sign, if they are free agents? Flip wants $5m. If you seriously think the Wings would have been worse off this season if Filppula had walked as a UFA last summer and Hudler were around and had the season he has had in Calgary, I don't know what to say.

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04-25-2013, 05:57 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I used to like Hudler, Eva has convinced me not to anymore.
You too, eh?

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04-25-2013, 10:27 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishad View Post
Pretty shocked they aren't plugging in a guy who has only played four games this season into the most important game of the year after everyone played well last game.
Babcock's penchant for not changing things when we're winning might actually work to our favour for once.

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04-26-2013, 08:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Dolph Lundgren View Post
Keeping him healthy for an offseason buy out?
Roger that.

Plus he stinks. I don't know who he'd replace.

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04-26-2013, 08:22 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronwalled55 View Post
I don't think there's a person on the planet that said Samuelsson was better than Hudler.
Well better "for the cap hit" to be precise. You can make the argument that this is exactly what Holland thought--that Sammy was a better value at $3M than Hudler at $4M.... since, you know, that's the direction he went.

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04-26-2013, 08:30 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I used to like Hudler, Eva has convinced me not to anymore.

He just flat out isn't worth that contract, especially if Babcock is still his bench boss. He doesn't fit the team that well, there are different options and we can turn the page.
$4M for 4Y?
That ain't so bad. It will expire when he's 32 or so.
But the second half of your post is part of the reason I wasn't upset to see him go. That and I figured the Wings would give Nyquist or Tatar a job to start the season.

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04-26-2013, 09:10 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
$4M for 4Y?
That ain't so bad. It will expire when he's 32 or so.
But the second half of your post is part of the reason I wasn't upset to see him go. That and I figured the Wings would give Nyquist or Tatar a job to start the season.
Well that really was my thought process as well. Just never thought Babcock wanted to use him the right way regardless, so throwing up numbers from Calgary do nothing for me which has become Eva's favorite thing to do. Thought we could find a better fit, especially if Babcock was going to continue being our coach.

I actually said several times I expected Jiri to put up decent numbers when he left, especially if he landed on a bad team and got tons of opportunities.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 04-27-2013 at 09:30 PM.
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Old
04-27-2013, 02:07 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronwalled55
I don't think there's a person on the planet that said Samuelsson was better than Hudler.
Your wrong. Samuelsson almost helped Vancouver to a cup after he left . Samuelsson
put up decent numbers in Florida before he came here. Samuelsson could definitely be viewed better than Hudler even if its difficult to compare them, they are different kind of players. And come playoff-time we all know who we want out there for the wings- people have short memories

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04-27-2013, 09:29 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Uno Bench View Post
Your wrong. Samuelsson almost helped Vancouver to a cup after he left . Samuelsson
put up decent numbers in Florida before he came here. Samuelsson could definitely be viewed better than Hudler even if its difficult to compare them, they are different kind of players. And come playoff-time we all know who we want out there for the wings- people have short memories
Yep, the guy who was one of the team's only four effective forwards last year in the playoffs. The only Wing to score a goal on Pekka Rinne in the last 60:54 of a five game series.

Hint: Samuelsson is not the answer.

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04-28-2013, 02:19 AM
  #64
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edited


Last edited by Uno Bench: 04-28-2013 at 02:39 AM. Reason: I should not be the one to defend a player I have potraid as a drag in my avatar
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04-28-2013, 03:03 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uno Bench View Post
Your wrong. Samuelsson almost helped Vancouver to a cup after he left . Samuelsson
put up decent numbers in Florida before he came here. Samuelsson could definitely be viewed better than Hudler even if its difficult to compare them, they are different kind of players. And come playoff-time we all know who we want out there for the wings- people have short memories
I think Samuelsson is a better player that he gets credit on this board.

He has to fight for a spot in the lineup.

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04-28-2013, 04:59 PM
  #66
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I wouldn't mind him coming back next year (he has one more year on his contract, right?). They don't need to waste a buyout on him. I think we'll have space and he could make us really deep as a 3rd liner. I just really don't want him to be our "top 6 acquisition."

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