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Old
04-27-2013, 08:55 AM
  #501
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Was a PS



I didn't even know he was on OTR
http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=nhl-latest/l...14201/clip/487

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04-27-2013, 08:59 AM
  #502
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Can he become as good as plekanec overall?

That is the question, how do galchenyuk-eller do as a 1-2 punch two years down the line, when plekanec has sliwn down, DD has been converted to wing, etc.

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04-27-2013, 09:49 AM
  #503
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Can he become as good as plekanec overall?

That is the question, how do galchenyuk-eller do as a 1-2 punch two years down the line, when plekanec has sliwn down, DD has been converted to wing, etc.

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04-27-2013, 10:10 AM
  #504
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Can he become as good as plekanec overall?

That is the question, how do galchenyuk-eller do as a 1-2 punch two years down the line, when plekanec has sliwn down, DD has been converted to wing, etc.
I think it all falls down on Galchenyuk.
If Gally can become that elite center we've longed for, hitting the ppg+ ratio, then Eller won't have to become as good as Plekanec.
However, I believe he can become better than Plekanec offensively. Eller has better hands and a better shot than Plek. Perhaps his vision isn't as good, but I'm not convinced yet. This year with two more offensively skilled wingers compared to previous years, he looks much better, and yet we're talking about either two rookies or one rookie and a skilled grinder. So, next year, with top 6 ice time and wingers, getting the PP time, I'm thinking he could potentially become better offensively than Plek.
Defensively, it's tough to be better than Plek. Other than perhaps winning faceoffs more, there isn't much you can really criticize Plek about in our zone.

I don't believe we're gonna need Eller to become as good defensively as Plek though.
I'm hoping to have Gally(80+pt player)-Eller(65)-Plek(40-45) as the 1-2-3 centermen.

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Old
04-27-2013, 10:23 AM
  #505
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I think it all falls down on Galchenyuk.
If Gally can become that elite center we've longed for, hitting the ppg+ ratio, then Eller won't have to become as good as Plekanec.
However, I believe he can become better than Plekanec offensively. Eller has better hands and a better shot than Plek. Perhaps his vision isn't as good, but I'm not convinced yet. This year with two more offensively skilled wingers compared to previous years, he looks much better, and yet we're talking about either two rookies or one rookie and a skilled grinder. So, next year, with top 6 ice time and wingers, getting the PP time, I'm thinking he could potentially become better offensively than Plek.
Defensively, it's tough to be better than Plek. Other than perhaps winning faceoffs more, there isn't much you can really criticize Plek about in our zone.

I don't believe we're gonna need Eller to become as good defensively as Plek though.
I'm hoping to have Gally(80+pt player)-Eller(65)-Plek(40-45) as the 1-2-3 centermen.
Plekanec won't be the third line center.

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04-27-2013, 10:25 AM
  #506
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Plekanec won't be the third line center.
In the future... when he's past his prime at 33-34

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04-27-2013, 10:27 AM
  #507
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Pleks
20y 2002-03 Hamilton Bulldogs AHL 77 19 27 46
21y 2003-04 Hamilton Bulldogs AHL 74 23 43 66
22y 2004-05 Hamilton Bulldogs AHL 80 29 35 64
23y 2005-06 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 9 20 29

24y 2006-07 Montreal Canadiens NHL 81 20 27 47
25y 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens NHL 81 29 40 69
26y 2008-09 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 20 19 39
27y 2009-10 Montreal Canadiens NHL 82 25 45 70
28y 2010-11 Montreal Canadiens NHL 77 22 35 57
29y 2011-12 Montreal Canadiens NHL 81 17 35 52
30y 2012-13 Montreal Canadiens NHL 46 13 19 32

Eller
20y 2009-10 Peoria Rivermen AHL 70 18 39 57
21y 2010-11 Montreal Canadiens NHL 77 7 10 17
22y 2011-12 Montreal Canadiens NHL 79 16 12 28
23y 2012-13 Montreal Canadiens NHL 45 7 20 27


Eller was more productive as a 20 year old in the AHL, reached the NHL sooner, and put up better ppg in the NHL as a 23 year old.

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04-27-2013, 10:32 AM
  #508
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In the future... when he's past his prime at 33-34
I fully expect Plekanec will be traded, or will have to take a salary drop, if he's ever to end up being our 3rd line center. Unless the cap dramatically go up in the next three years.

5M is way too much for a 3rd line C, when your Top-2 C's aren't Crosby and Malkin, thus can't turn anybody into a 30-goal scorer.

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04-27-2013, 11:15 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by Steve Shutt View Post
Pleks
20y 2002-03 Hamilton Bulldogs AHL 77 19 27 46
21y 2003-04 Hamilton Bulldogs AHL 74 23 43 66
22y 2004-05 Hamilton Bulldogs AHL 80 29 35 64
23y 2005-06 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 9 20 29

24y 2006-07 Montreal Canadiens NHL 81 20 27 47
25y 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens NHL 81 29 40 69
26y 2008-09 Montreal Canadiens NHL 80 20 19 39
27y 2009-10 Montreal Canadiens NHL 82 25 45 70
28y 2010-11 Montreal Canadiens NHL 77 22 35 57
29y 2011-12 Montreal Canadiens NHL 81 17 35 52
30y 2012-13 Montreal Canadiens NHL 46 13 19 32

Eller
20y 2009-10 Peoria Rivermen AHL 70 18 39 57
21y 2010-11 Montreal Canadiens NHL 77 7 10 17
22y 2011-12 Montreal Canadiens NHL 79 16 12 28
23y 2012-13 Montreal Canadiens NHL 45 7 20 27


Eller was more productive as a 20 year old in the AHL, reached the NHL sooner, and put up better ppg in the NHL as a 23 year old.
You cannot compare both by just stats. They played with different sets of teamates under different coaches and game style.

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04-27-2013, 11:17 AM
  #510
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You cannot compare both by just stats. They played with different sets of teamates under different coaches and game style.
Not to mention that Plekanec progressed more between 18-23 than Eller did.

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Old
04-27-2013, 11:25 AM
  #511
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I fully expect Plekanec will be traded, or will have to take a salary drop, if he's ever to end up being our 3rd line center. Unless the cap dramatically go up in the next three years.

5M is way too much for a 3rd line C, when your Top-2 C's aren't Crosby and Malkin, thus can't turn anybody into a 30-goal scorer.
Plekanec is really versatile, can play with anyone and in any situation. No reason to trade him, it's not like Eller/Galchenyuk aren't going to break bank at their re-signs, they don't have the multiple ~70 point seasons Plekanec had before his contract and neither will be given the opportunity to produce like that before their contracts are up.

When your top 2 C are young and cheap, having a vet that can do everything like Plekanec is very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Not to mention that Plekanec progressed more between 18-23 than Eller did.
If Eller dominated AHL at the age of 21 and 22 then put up 0.6 pts/game at the age of 23, does it somehow become more impressive?

0.81 pts/game in 1st AHL season
to
0.22 pts/game in 1st NHL season
to
0.35 pts/game in 2nd NHL season
to
0.60 pts/game in 3rd NHL season
to
? pts/game in 4th NHL season.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 04-27-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old
04-27-2013, 11:42 AM
  #512
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Let's be reality: eller's ceiling is plekanec's. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

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Old
04-27-2013, 12:17 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
Let's be reality: eller's ceiling is plekanec's. Not that there's anything wrong with that!
A big, physical Plekanec who isn't useless on shootouts? That's only a good thing.

Not sure he has Plek's shot though. I mean Eller has a pretty good shot (he's no Gomez/Desharnais, that's for sure) but his release is pretty slow.

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04-27-2013, 12:22 PM
  #514
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I know he's versatile.
But if Plekanec ends up being the 3rd line center, that would mean one of three things.

+ Either he really regressed
+ Either two of Galchenyuk, Desharnais or Eller really improved on their actual play
+ A combination of the above.

Forget DD for a moment -- moot point, won't get a raise anytime soon.

If Gally and Eller pass Plekanec on the depth chart, they'll be asking for... good money. And if Plekanec's play drop, he'll have to accept a drop OR he'll be overpaid, depending on when the drop occurs.

Plekanec has many qualities. It's just that 5M for a 3rd center doesn't make sense in a 60-something M cap world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Plekanec is really versatile, can play with anyone and in any situation. No reason to trade him, it's not like Eller/Galchenyuk aren't going to break bank at their re-signs, they don't have the multiple ~70 point seasons Plekanec had before his contract and neither will be given the opportunity to produce like that before their contracts are up.

When your top 2 C are young and cheap, having a vet that can do everything like Plekanec is very good.



If Eller dominated AHL at the age of 21 and 22 then put up 0.6 pts/game at the age of 23, does it somehow become more impressive?

0.81 pts/game in 1st AHL season
to
0.22 pts/game in 1st NHL season
to
0.35 pts/game in 2nd NHL season
to
0.60 pts/game in 3rd NHL season
to
? pts/game in 4th NHL season.

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Old
04-27-2013, 12:23 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post


If Eller dominated AHL at the age of 21 and 22 then put up 0.6 pts/game at the age of 23, does it somehow become more impressive?

0.81 pts/game in 1st AHL season
to
0.22 pts/game in 1st NHL season
to
0.35 pts/game in 2nd NHL season
to
0.60 pts/game in 3rd NHL season
to
? pts/game in 4th NHL season.
Eller was much more advanced when drafted AND when coming to North America than Plekanec was.

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04-27-2013, 12:38 PM
  #516
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A big, physical Plekanec who isn't useless on shootouts? That's only a good thing.

Not sure he has Plek's shot though. I mean Eller has a pretty good shot (he's no Gomez/Desharnais, that's for sure) but his release is pretty slow.
Agreed, but he can work on it.

I still find Plekanec more elusive and a better player overall. I don't think Eller has that ceiling but if he wants to reach it, one of the major aspects is his shot. I hope he works on it over the summer. Would help him surpass 20 goal mark.

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Old
04-27-2013, 01:02 PM
  #517
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Plekanec is not a 70 pts center, not on the Habs at least. His ceiling is in the 50-60 pts while playing well defensively over 82 games. He has had seasons above that, but I think that's his "consistent" range of production.

If Eller can have that same range, I think having both Eller and Plekanec as #2C or #3C makes for great depth, while Galchenyuk is #1C.

Obviously it's unheard of having a 50pts center as your 3rd line center, so I do assume a trade would follow once it is established as the 2nd line center.

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Old
04-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #518
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Agreed, but he can work on it.

I still find Plekanec more elusive and a better player overall. I don't think Eller has that ceiling but if he wants to reach it, one of the major aspects is his shot. I hope he works on it over the summer. Would help him surpass 20 goal mark.
Well the thing is, Eller does have a lot more natural talent. Plekanec is a great shooter and passer but a below average puck handler by center standards, not to mention the size and strength difference. Plek is faster, but Eller is very fast - it's just that Plekanec is one of the best skaters in the league IMO.

But yeah, it's hard to match Plekanec's hockey IQ and elusiveness. If anything being far more developed when he came into the league has hurt Eller in a way, what Plekanec needed to make the NHL in the first place, Eller has to learn along the way, and things like decision making are difficult to project.

Eller defintiely has the ceiling IMO, I'm not convinced he could be quite as good as Plekanec as a two way anchor, but he already gives some things even Plek doesn't - don't forget until Eller broke out, we were dependant on Gomez at times getting out of the neutral zone. Eller is easily the best puck handler on this team until Galchenyuk bulks up.

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04-27-2013, 01:22 PM
  #519
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I know he's versatile.
But if Plekanec ends up being the 3rd line center, that would mean one of three things.

+ Either he really regressed
+ Either two of Galchenyuk, Desharnais or Eller really improved on their actual play
+ A combination of the above.

Forget DD for a moment -- moot point, won't get a raise anytime soon.

If Gally and Eller pass Plekanec on the depth chart, they'll be asking for... good money. And if Plekanec's play drop, he'll have to accept a drop OR he'll be overpaid, depending on when the drop occurs.

Plekanec has many qualities. It's just that 5M for a 3rd center doesn't make sense in a 60-something M cap world.
Subban had passed every Defenseman on our team including Markov and yet was still signed to a 2.75M cap hit over 2years.
Gally and Eller will not break the bank in their next contract. They will get increases, but it won't be huge. Gally is already at 3.225M with all the bonuses for 2 more years, Eller likely won't get anything above that either after next season.
Plekanec is signed for another 3 years.

So, if in 2 years Gally and Eller are on a higher level than Plekanec, I don't see why we would keep Plekanec ahead. I also don't see why we would have to trade him. Keeping those three centers together would be a huge luxury.

If those two surpass Plekanec, than he certainly becomes a lot more movable and we might entertain some offers, see what return he could provide, but moving him won't be a necessity.

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04-27-2013, 01:23 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
A big, physical Plekanec who isn't useless on shootouts? That's only a good thing.

Not sure he has Plek's shot though. I mean Eller has a pretty good shot (he's no Gomez/Desharnais, that's for sure) but his release is pretty slow.
I think Eller has a more powerful shot, he just needs a bit of work on his release and accuracy.

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Old
04-27-2013, 02:19 PM
  #521
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Subban had passed every Defenseman on our team including Markov and yet was still signed to a 2.75M cap hit over 2years.
Gally and Eller will not break the bank in their next contract. They will get increases, but it won't be huge. Gally is already at 3.225M with all the bonuses for 2 more years, Eller likely won't get anything above that either after next season.
Plekanec is signed for another 3 years.

So, if in 2 years Gally and Eller are on a higher level than Plekanec, I don't see why we would keep Plekanec ahead. I also don't see why we would have to trade him. Keeping those three centers together would be a huge luxury.

If those two surpass Plekanec, than he certainly becomes a lot more movable and we might entertain some offers, see what return he could provide, but moving him won't be a necessity.
Passing everyone when 15th in the East is different than passing everyone when the team plays well.

Look, I'm just being... realistic here.

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04-27-2013, 02:35 PM
  #522
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Passing everyone when 15th in the East is different than passing everyone when the team plays well.

Look, I'm just being... realistic here.
He had already passed everyone else in his rookie season when they were a strong 6th seed. And frankly his performance on 15th place team would have been worthy of being a number 1 on a lot of playoff squads.

There isn't that big a gap between Subban this season and the year before, the big difference is the team around him got much better.

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04-27-2013, 02:58 PM
  #523
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He had already passed everyone else in his rookie season when they were a strong 6th seed. And frankly his performance on 15th place team would have been worthy of being a number 1 on a lot of playoff squads.

There isn't that big a gap between Subban this season and the year before, the big difference is the team around him got much better.
I know that. But again, be realistic.

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04-27-2013, 03:49 PM
  #524
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My laptop/tsn.ca won't play it, or any of their videos in the player.

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04-27-2013, 04:32 PM
  #525
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I know that. But again, be realistic.
Not sure what ''Be realistic'' is supposed to mean here. PK has been our best player pretty much since midway through his rookie year.

Ya, from a general standpoint, it's harder to be the best player of a top team than a bottom one. In no way does this mean you wouldn't still be the best Dman on the best team, and he proved it this year as we battled for the 2nd seed all season.

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