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2013 NHL Draft Part 3 (Flyers own the 11th overall pick)

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Old
04-27-2013, 08:00 AM
  #301
bennysflyers16
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Sens will be trying to win. Top 8 pick will get us a very good player, must lose sadly.

Top 8 will land a solid fwd or Risto, so the option to pkg 8 and Read may be enough to move up a spot or 2 to get Nurse if team needs Fwds

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04-27-2013, 08:37 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Sens will be trying to win. Top 8 pick will get us a very good player, must lose sadly.

Top 8 will land a solid fwd or Risto, so the option to pkg 8 and Read may be enough to move up a spot or 2 to get Nurse if team needs Fwds
Why package a player with our pick to move up 2 spots? Previous drafts prove you can move up with a 2nd rounder, or you can get creative and use a 3rd rounder from this year and a 2nd next year. Read wouldn't be needed for any proposal for the 6th overall if we finish 8th.

Nichuskin is starting to really intrigue me. Could you imagine the battle of Russians in PA if we drafted him. You know he will come with everything he has when playing Malkin. Shoot some were even comparing to Malkin this year. I know that is high praise, and I am not buying into it, but it seems like he is going to be a special player. Also heard Rick Nash comparison being thrown out there(I have stated previously I am not a huge fan of these.) Even if Rist/Pulock/Zads/Mueller and other defenders are on the board and we pick him, I will love the pick.

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04-27-2013, 09:20 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Why package a player with our pick to move up 2 spots? Previous drafts prove you can move up with a 2nd rounder, or you can get creative and use a 3rd rounder from this year and a 2nd next year. Read wouldn't be needed for any proposal for the 6th overall if we finish 8th.

Nichuskin is starting to really intrigue me. Could you imagine the battle of Russians in PA if we drafted him. You know he will come with everything he has when playing Malkin. Shoot some were even comparing to Malkin this year. I know that is high praise, and I am not buying into it, but it seems like he is going to be a special player. Also heard Rick Nash comparison being thrown out there(I have stated previously I am not a huge fan of these.) Even if Rist/Pulock/Zads/Mueller and other defenders are on the board and we pick him, I will love the pick.
Even with my expressed coveting of Nurse, I'm not a fan of trying to move up if it costs Read, given the depth of quality that's available. There have been very, very few slam-dunk stars at drafts, and many more busts. If Nurse can be obtained with a 2nd from next year and a 3rd/4th this year, that's fine.

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04-27-2013, 09:24 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Even with my expressed coveting of Nurse, I'm not a fan of trying to move up if it costs Read, given the depth of quality that's available. There have been very, very few slam-dunk stars at drafts, and many more busts. If Nurse can be obtained with a 2nd from next year and a 3rd/4th this year, that's fine.
Yeah, I agree. I want Nurse, but I wouldn't trade a roster player or a solid prospect to move up a couple spots to get him. Now to get Jones, that is a different story.

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04-27-2013, 09:27 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Even with my expressed coveting of Nurse, I'm not a fan of trying to move up if it costs Read, given the depth of quality that's available. There have been very, very few slam-dunk stars at drafts, and many more busts. If Nurse can be obtained with a 2nd from next year and a 3rd/4th this year, that's fine.
All I did was look up previous draft trades, and the cost is usually never a player, especially moving up 2-3 spots. Most likely, we will need to include our 2nd this year. I just don't want to do that with the talent in this draft. I believe 2 players in 40 picks is better than just one at 5-6th overall. We need to replenish, if we had more prospects, I wouldn't mind that type of deal.

I am extremely curious to see what Edmonton does at the draft as well. They are rumored to be looking aggressively to get back into the playoffs. See what they want for their 7th overall pick(looking at our defenders, mainly Coburn) and see if a deal could be worked out.

I understand some people don't want to move Coburn, but I would for the right deal. He has been here 8(?) years, and we pretty much know what he brings to the table. We have some younger players breaking in who could possibly replace him in the coming years. Also I have stated my like to sign Streit as a UFA, he gives you a strong puck mover while giving you the same defense.

Now also let me state that I don't think Coburn gets you the 7th overall, but we know some desperate GM's have done some pretty asinine things in the past.

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04-27-2013, 09:33 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
All I did was look up previous draft trades, and the cost is usually never a player, especially moving up 2-3 spots. Most likely, we will need to include our 2nd this year. I just don't want to do that with the talent in this draft. I believe 2 players in 40 picks is better than just one at 5-6th overall. We need to replenish, if we had more prospects, I wouldn't mind that type of deal.

I am extremely curious to see what Edmonton does at the draft as well. They are rumored to be looking aggressively to get back into the playoffs. See what they want for their 7th overall pick(looking at our defenders, mainly Coburn) and see if a deal could be worked out.

I understand some people don't want to move Coburn, but I would for the right deal. He has been here 8(?) years, and we pretty much know what he brings to the table. We have some younger players breaking in who could possibly replace him in the coming years. Also I have stated my like to sign Streit as a UFA, he gives you a strong puck mover while giving you the same defense.

Now also let me state that I don't think Coburn gets you the 7th overall, but we know some desperate GM's have done some pretty asinine things in the past.
I definitely would trade Coburn if it brought in another top 10 pick. We could replace him with Streit hopefully. And then we would have two good prospects or two picks to try to package to get Jones. Coburn has been a good player for us over the years, but just not consistent enough. I wouldn't trade him for just anything, but I wouldn't be against it for the right return

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04-27-2013, 09:42 AM
  #307
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I definitely would trade Coburn if it brought in another top 10 pick. We could replace him with Streit hopefully. And then we would have two good prospects or two picks to try to package to get Jones. Coburn has been a good player for us over the years, but just not consistent enough. I wouldn't trade him for just anything, but I wouldn't be against it for the right return
That's pretty much how I feel. I don't think we get the first overall no matter what(at a price we were comfortable with.) I've always liked Coburn, but I believe we need to start thinking about rebuilding that back end. We have Schenn, which has proven to be a great deal for both teams. Kimmo is gone next year, and we don't have a legit defenseman to take the reigns. I think Streit could help ease the lose of Kimmo, and he is a 50 point defender.

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04-27-2013, 09:43 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I definitely would trade Coburn if it brought in another top 10 pick. We could replace him with Streit hopefully. And then we would have two good prospects or two picks to try to package to get Jones. Coburn has been a good player for us over the years, but just not consistent enough. I wouldn't trade him for just anything, but I wouldn't be against it for the right return
I think Coburn is one of the more important defensemen to our team. I think the hatred of him here is a pretty "what have you done for me lately" phenomenon.

That said, if we could use Coburn to get Nurse and use our other pick on Ristolainen...

I'd have to say yes. Jones can **** off. He's not worth Nurse and Ristolainen.

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04-27-2013, 09:49 AM
  #309
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So the idea is this:

Trade a guy with a NTC.
Rebuild the backend by removing a legitimate 28 year old defenseman with an acceptable contract who might be entering the "wiser" prime years of a defenseman (28-32).
Bank on signing Streit against the rest of the league. Free agency gamble!
Bank on 2 first round picks panning out.
Assume Kimmo is gone.

I hate it.

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04-27-2013, 10:06 AM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
So the idea is this:

Trade a guy with a NTC.
Rebuild the backend by removing a legitimate 28 year old defenseman with an acceptable contract who might be entering the "wiser" prime years of a defenseman (28-32).
Bank on signing Streit against the rest of the league. Free agency gamble!
Bank on 2 first round picks panning out.
Assume Kimmo is gone.

I hate it.
I like Coburn more than most here, and I want him kept.

If he could get us Nurse though, and we could rebuild the back-end with two top 10 defensive draft picks...that's pretty enticing.

That said, I don't think Coburn nets us a top 10 pick.

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04-27-2013, 10:22 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I like Coburn more than most here, and I want him kept.

If he could get us Nurse though, and we could rebuild the back-end with two top 10 defensive draft picks...that's pretty enticing.

That said, I don't think Coburn nets us a top 10 pick.
I agree.

If you look at the 6 teams that could be drafting after us, only Dallas would really be looking for a D-man. The longshot is Edmonton(1 pick in front of us). Maybe they want a Coburn who can eat up minutes instead of waiting another 3 years for a d-man to help them out. Of course, if Monohan or Lindholm are there, Edmonton picks them I think.

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04-27-2013, 11:21 AM
  #312
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He's not. Too old.

Also:



Re-tweeted by Button. If this is true and he does come over, he is a top 5 pick. Can't see him falling if he is coming over to the NHL.
I think the top five are set(at least in my mind ), but after that it is hard to pinpoint who goes where and in what order. The five I have (in no order) are Jones,MacKinnon,Drouin,Nichushkin and Barkov. Now if the word on Valeri is he has to stay overseas for two more years he may drop. But teams are going to be hard pressed to pass on him because of that. However the talent that is still on board is just off the charts! I hope the Flyers just stay where they are and pick the BPA. No matter what they will be drafting a impact player and by doing that it will allow them to tinker with the lineup in the offseason. I really wish I could get a scouting report on Lindholm Someone said he had a lot of Peter Forsberg in his game and that got me pumped up. But then I will be excited with anyone they pick.

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04-27-2013, 11:42 AM
  #313
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Coburn's inconsistency issues go far beyond this season. Not many players in Flyer history have frustrated me more then Coburn. A high end skillset but for some reason cant put it together. I said it before and I say it again. he reminds me of Pitkanen in that regard.
for a player that is as big and can skate like Coburn he sure seemed pretty ****ing soft at times.

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04-27-2013, 11:48 AM
  #314
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I have no problem with trading coburn, but we either need a defender in return or another trade or free angent to replace him.

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04-27-2013, 12:18 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
I have no problem with trading coburn, but we either need a defender in return or another trade or free angent to replace him.
I am not advocating just giving him away. Some think he should be on the untouchable list. that is just crazy talk.

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04-27-2013, 12:28 PM
  #316
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What bothers me right now is that if KImo leaves after next season, who is the veteran leader on the blue line? Coburn? Sorry, not good enough. Grossman, Schenn, Gustafsson and the others need a trusted season veteran back there to lean on. I'd love to see the Flyers grow Ristolainen into a future #1 defender and I think that he has the ability to do that.
However, I see Holmgren moving for a potential #1 off of another team right now such as a Shattenkirk or Pietrangelo. That is going to cost Couturier or Laughton plus Coburn going the other way. If that happens, it will affect how the Flyers draft. Maybe a forward after all.

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04-27-2013, 12:37 PM
  #317
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What bothers me right now is that if KImo leaves after next season, who is the veteran leader on the blue line? Coburn? Sorry, not good enough. Grossman, Schenn, Gustafsson and the others need a trusted season veteran back there to lean on. I'd love to see the Flyers grow Ristolainen into a future #1 defender and I think that he has the ability to do that.
However, I see Holmgren moving for a potential #1 off of another team right now such as a Shattenkirk or Pietrangelo. That is going to cost Couturier or Laughton plus Coburn going the other way. If that happens, it will affect how the Flyers draft. Maybe a forward after all.
2013-14
Timonen - Schenn
Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Grossmann

2014-15
Streit - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
Nurse/Ristolainen - Grossmann

2015-16
Nurse/Ristolainen - Coburn
Gustafsson - Schenn
Gostisbehere - Grossmann

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04-27-2013, 12:44 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
So the idea is this:

Trade a guy with a NTC.
Rebuild the backend by removing a legitimate 28 year old defenseman with an acceptable contract who might be entering the "wiser" prime years of a defenseman (28-32).
Bank on signing Streit against the rest of the league. Free agency gamble!
Bank on 2 first round picks panning out.
Assume Kimmo is gone.

I hate it.
LOL!!! Well done Sir!!

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Old
04-27-2013, 02:52 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
So the idea is this:

Trade a guy with a NTC.
Rebuild the backend by removing a legitimate 28 year old defenseman with an acceptable contract who might be entering the "wiser" prime years of a defenseman (28-32).
Bank on signing Streit against the rest of the league. Free agency gamble!
Bank on 2 first round picks panning out.
Assume Kimmo is gone.

I hate it.
-Coburn has a modified NTC. Not as bad as a full NTC/NMC. He probably can submit some sort of list(around 10 teams) he won't accept a trade to.
-Coburn has been on this team for 8 years. Yes, while durable, he has proven to be inconsistent many times during the season. We shouldn't have to wait to see "playoff Coburn" until the playoffs. The kid should play that way year round. We have seen what he is capable of and he just never supplies it anymore.
-We could always make a move to grab Streits rights at the draft. We could even trade one of the picks we get(along with other assets) for a defenseman who can run a PP. I'm not sure who would be available, but anything can happen when the summer hits and closer to the draft.
-Appleyard has proven that if you are selecting in the top 10 with players they generally become good NHLers. Yes, there is always potential for that player to bust, but that's the risk every team takes when making these picks/trades. You have to depend on scouting in these cases.
-Kimmo signed a 1 year deal pretty much almost guaranteeing he is gone after next year.

It's not that far'fetched to believe Coburn could be on the block. If the return was good enough, we should jump on it. Coburn is a good player, but just like Homer retooled the offense, some think he should retool the defense. We know this group hasn't been good enough to make it happen so far, so why not try a different direction?

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04-27-2013, 02:58 PM
  #320
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I wouldn't trade Coburn just yet

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04-27-2013, 03:00 PM
  #321
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I think Coburn's inconsistency can be exaggerated, and much of the animus seems to hinge on holding Coburn to a standard that he's never likely to meet.

Until this season, "regular season" Coburn was a solid, defensively-minded #3 defenseman. "Playoff coburn" was a solid #2, shut-down defenseman. He's never going to be a #1. He's probably never going to a consistent #2--though he's proven that he has the capability of elevating his game to that standard.

Coburn as a solid #3 is still a very valuable piece. Yes, Grossmann has played well, but I've never really believed that he made Coburn expendable (and L. Schenn is more of a Grossmann type than a Coburn type).

If some team came with an absurd offer for Coburn, I think you have to listen, and if you needed to include him in a package for a young 1B/2A type defenseman, I think you do it. But I don't think he should be on the block for the best offer of picks and prospects.

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04-27-2013, 03:00 PM
  #322
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I am not totally for or against trading Coburn. If I was GM, I would at least hear what teams are interested in him and what they are willing to part with. If nothing substantial comes our way, keep him.

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04-27-2013, 03:01 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Coburn's inconsistency issues go far beyond this season. Not many players in Flyer history have frustrated me more then Coburn. A high end skillset but for some reason cant put it together. I said it before and I say it again. he reminds me of Pitkanen in that regard.
for a player that is as big and can skate like Coburn he sure seemed pretty ****ing soft at times.
Except Pitkanen did put it together. He's a 24 minute a night, two-way defender that'll net you 40 points a season (as long as he can stay healthy). Coburn should be right there with him. He's had seasons where he played well defensively, put up 30 points, but for whatever reason he can't do it consistently.

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04-27-2013, 03:04 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I am not totally for or against trading Coburn. If I was GM, I would at least here what teams are interested in him and what they are willing to part with. If nothing substantial comes our way, keep him.

So you're saying that we should "gauge interest" in him, like they did with Nödl?


In all seriousness though I agree with this stance.

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04-27-2013, 03:05 PM
  #325
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If you're trying to trade Coburn for draft picks, you might as well blow up the team and trade everyone over 25 and start a rebuild. Otherwise it doesn't make much sense to me.

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