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The Lars Eller Thread - Great or Greatest Dane Edition

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Old
04-27-2013, 09:25 PM
  #551
Jack Bourdain
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Wow some people are bitter to the core. You can take the good with the bad when it comes to Gauthier.

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04-27-2013, 09:33 PM
  #552
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This is basically 80% Gauthier's team, like it or not. + the 2 early 2nds are his work.

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04-27-2013, 09:36 PM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Wow some people are bitter to the core. You can take the good with the bad when it comes to Gauthier.
No, cannot forgive Gauthier for convincing Gainey to bring Gomez here.

Nor for the wasted years that he was GM here. Yes, wasted years.

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04-27-2013, 09:42 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
This is basically 80% Gauthier's team, like it or not. + the 2 early 2nds are his work.
Lars Eller, Peter Budaj, Rene Bourque, Raphael Diaz, Tomas Kaberle, Mike Blunden = 80%?

This is Timmins' team IMO. So many drafted players on the team.

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04-27-2013, 09:49 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
This is basically 80% Gauthier's team, like it or not. + the 2 early 2nds are his work.
Timmins*

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04-27-2013, 09:50 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Lars Eller, Peter Budaj, Rene Bourque, Raphael Diaz, Tomas Kaberle, Mike Blunden = 80%?

This is Timmins' team IMO. So many drafted players on the team.
So GMs should never get credit essentially, since the teams that win are usually composed of drafted players. So Chiarelli gets no credit in Boston, Shero doesn't get credit in Pittsburgh etc etc.

The lengths people go to to not give Gauthier any credit is sad.

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04-27-2013, 09:51 PM
  #557
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OK. Thank you Pierre Gauthier for not trashing the Bell Centre when they asked you to leave. That was classy.

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04-27-2013, 09:54 PM
  #558
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Top 3 Danes:

1. Lars Eller
2. Viggo Mortesen
3. The guy who invensted Skype.

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04-27-2013, 10:03 PM
  #559
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So GMs should never get credit essentially, since the teams that win are usually composed of drafted players. So Chiarelli gets no credit in Boston, Shero doesn't get credit in Pittsburgh etc etc.

The lengths people go to to not give Gauthier any credit is sad.
The Chiarelli that signed Chara and traded for Horton/Seindenberg/2nd overall pick/Rask/etc?

The Shero that signed Martin/etc and traded for Hossa/Neal/Dupuis/Kunitz/etc?

Yup, pretty much the same as Gauthier's reign where the best moments are amateur scouting based. Does Nonis get credit for the Leafs current/future success?

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04-27-2013, 10:05 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Lars Eller, Peter Budaj, Rene Bourque, Raphael Diaz, Tomas Kaberle, Mike Blunden = 80%?

This is Timmins' team IMO. So many drafted players on the team.
You can say that for any GM that has been here over Timmins' tenure. The fact of the matter is that the GM gets credit for the job well done of ALL their employees, which includes the scouting and drafting. Just like Bergevin will get props in the future if the team drafts well under Timmins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
The Chiarelli that signed Chara and traded for Horton/Seindenberg/2nd overall pick/Rask/etc?

The Shero that signed Martin/etc and traded for Hossa/Neal/Dupuis/Kunitz/etc?

Yup pretty similar.
Seems like unless GM's go to extra lengths to improve their teams via trades/signing, you wouldn't credit them for simply hanging on to their assets? Very unfair.

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04-27-2013, 10:07 PM
  #561
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Also: 6th on the team in points, 3rd on the team in even strength points (after Pacioretty and Galchenyuk(!))

His ceiling might be as a 3rd liner at best...but he was effectively a second line center this year.

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04-27-2013, 10:07 PM
  #562
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He finished 3rd on our team in hits. He's really improved where we needed help.

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04-27-2013, 10:12 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
The Chiarelli that signed Chara and traded for Horton/Seindenberg/2nd overall pick/Rask/etc?

The Shero that signed Martin/etc and traded for Hossa/Neal/Dupuis/Kunitz/etc?

Yup, pretty much the same as Gauthier's reign where the best moments are amateur scouting based. Does Nonis get credit for the Leafs current/future success?
Regardless of whether the team is still composed of players drafted by the team's scout, it still takes the GM to build a roster. The fact is that the team this year is very successful with a D largely composed by Gauthier with a similar vision (key term) to what Gauthier had intended for last year. Emelin-Gorges-Markov-Subban-Diaz were all part of Gauthier's vision for the D last season...they are now playing well as a unit this season largely due to Markov's return and largely due to the development of Diaz and Emelin.

Also the vision for the scoring depth isn't that different from last season as well. The three centres are still the same (Eller-Plekanec and Desharnais) the wingers changed a bit, but some have been carried over from Gauthier's vision of last year's team (which of course you'll say finished last and I really don't want to get into a debate of why that team finished last right now).

Sure the team is composed of Timmins' picks, but the vision of the current team isn't all that different from what Gauthier had intended last season.

But of course, this will get overlooked because Montreal fans are incapable of seeing things other than black and white. Gauthier = bad, therefore nothing he did could have been good.

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04-27-2013, 10:18 PM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Lars Eller, Peter Budaj, Rene Bourque, Raphael Diaz, Tomas Kaberle, Mike Blunden = 80%?

This is Timmins' team IMO. So many drafted players on the team.
Well I should have been clear on draft/acquired during the Gainey-Gauthier regime and Gauthier re-signed several.

But yes, Trevor is the architect if you want to go there.

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04-27-2013, 10:20 PM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
You can say that for any GM that has been here over Timmins' tenure. The fact of the matter is that the GM gets credit for the job well done of ALL their employees, which includes the scouting and drafting. Just like Bergevin will get props in the future if the team drafts well under Timmins.

Seems like unless GM's go to extra lengths to improve their teams via trades/signing, you wouldn't credit them for simply hanging on to their assets? Very unfair.
My personal bar for giving praise is not as low as to give credit for not throwing away quality prospects your scouting staff gets you. IMO that's expected. If Gainey DIDN'T trade McDonagh in his tenure, I wouldn't praise that because I expect blue chippers to not be thrown away.

Bergevin should get props for Prust/Ryder/coaching staff/'team spirit (or whatever you call it lol)'/overall roster management/other managerial things he's been doing, not who Timmins drafts. It's not Bergevin/Gauthier/Gainey who are watching junior games to find Hudon/Gallagher/Subban.

I will give Gauthier credit for getting the 2013 2nds. I will not give him or Bergevin credit/blame for who Timmins drafts.

Yes I admit to being too bitter to give Gauthier full credit for Eller and think Timmins liked him and wouldn't be surprised if he was high on his 2007 draft list.

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04-27-2013, 10:24 PM
  #566
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Have you guys seen the badass interview Eller gave in the lockerroom after the match?

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04-27-2013, 10:24 PM
  #567
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I dunno, I wanted Perron or Oshie but I'm willing to eat crow if this keeps up!
Eller would be the second best scorer with the Blues... and the best center.

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04-27-2013, 10:27 PM
  #568
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Most consistent player all year long Lars.

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04-27-2013, 10:30 PM
  #569
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23 years old....he's gonna get even better in the next 2-3 years.
He is a top 6 in my book right now.

This thread title should read: What a guy got to do to get some powerplay around here?

This season....on a pace for 53pts season (82 games)
Without any of the top 6 offensives advantages

How many points would he get with top PPtime???
Not playing 3-4 games on the fourth line and on the wing?
Not having to play with Armstrong, Prust, Dumont...non-offensive winger?
60? 65? 70?

That's great top 6 production...at 23 years old.

37th center in the league this year.

And he brings so many other thing (Toughness, grit, agressive forecheck, great defensively, PK specialist). If we get him some PPtime and just produce OK....That's a solid second line center in my book.


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04-27-2013, 10:33 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
My personal bar for giving praise is not as low as to give credit for not throwing away quality prospects your scouting staff gets you. IMO that's expected. If Gainey DIDN'T trade McDonagh in his tenure, I wouldn't praise that because I expect blue chippers to not be thrown away.

Bergevin should get props for Prust/Ryder/coaching staff/'team spirit (or whatever you call it lol)'/overall roster management/other managerial things he's been doing, not who Timmins drafts. It's not Bergevin/Gauthier/Gainey who are watching junior games to find Hudon/Gallagher/Subban.

I will give Gauthier credit for getting the 2013 2nds. I will not give him or Bergevin credit/blame for who Timmins drafts.

Yes I admit to being too bitter to give Gauthier full credit for Eller and think Timmins liked him and wouldn't be surprised if he was high on his 2007 draft list.
quoted for truth...

and why is the Eller thread turning into yet another sad attempt for people incapable of mea culpa's to try and spin Gauthier's tenure into anything but the unmitigated failure that it was?

he failed... most of his moves were poor & his organizational management was atrocious... a new GM was quickly able to make the small, yet obvious, adjustments needed to make much better use of the decent talent in our roster (talent largely attributable to A-league best drafting for a decade, B- Cap spending).
is it so hard to look back, accept that one made a mistake in praising a now deposed vegan-tyrant and move on ... how could a non-meat-eater be anything but awful... it's as black and white as it gets ,

Eller is a great asset to have, one of the few silver linings to an otherwise forgettable few years... much more "even a blind squirrel finds a nut" than evidence of less than mediocre tenure imo.

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04-27-2013, 10:38 PM
  #571
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Regardless of whether the team is still composed of players drafted by the team's scout, it still takes the GM to build a roster. The fact is that the team this year is very successful with a D largely composed by Gauthier with a similar vision (key term) to what Gauthier had intended for last year. Emelin-Gorges-Markov-Subban-Diaz were all part of Gauthier's vision for the D last season...they are now playing well as a unit this season largely due to Markov's return and largely due to the development of Diaz and Emelin.

Also the vision for the scoring depth isn't that different from last season as well. The three centres are still the same (Eller-Plekanec and Desharnais) the wingers changed a bit, but some have been carried over from Gauthier's vision of last year's team (which of course you'll say finished last and I really don't want to get into a debate of why that team finished last right now).

Sure the team is composed of Timmins' picks, but the vision of the current team isn't all that different from what Gauthier had intended last season.

But of course, this will get overlooked because Montreal fans are incapable of seeing things other than black and white. Gauthier = bad, therefore nothing he did could have been good.
I grew up a Habs fan in the late 90s/early 00s and my bar as a Habs fan is higher than praising a hypothetical vision of how the roster would look like in the future. Are you really suggesting his 'vision' took into consideration Gomez's injury/regression and Desharnais' rise in the depth charts? And the D made up of a Norris candidate Subban with waiver Kaberle?

I'm curious, what exactly would had to been done to be considered bad/poor GM? Is the bar so low that this would constitute letting Markov/Plekanec go as UFA, trading away all prospects/picks, and many other unreasonable things sane GMs wouldn't do on top of finishing low in standings?

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04-27-2013, 10:41 PM
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
quoted for truth...

and why is the Eller thread turning into yet another sad attempt for people incapable of mea culpa's to try and spin Gauthier's tenure into anything but the unmitigated failure that it was?

he failed... most of his moves were poor & his organizational management was atrocious... a new GM was quickly able to make the small, yet obvious, adjustments needed to make much better use of the decent talent in our roster (talent largely attributable to A-league best drafting for a decade, B- Cap spending).
is it so hard to look back, accept that one made a mistake in praising a now deposed vegan-tyrant and move on ... how could a non-meat-eater be anything but awful... it's as black and white as it gets ,

Eller is a great asset to have, one of the few silver linings to an otherwise forgettable few years... much more "even a blind squirrel finds a nut" than evidence of less than mediocre tenure imo.
If all it took was a few small, obvious adjustments then how was it an unmitigated failure?

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04-27-2013, 10:46 PM
  #573
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Great final game by Lars.

He has earned MT's confidence for the PO.

... oh yeah... start Budaj

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04-27-2013, 10:47 PM
  #574
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Have you guys seen the badass interview Eller gave in the lockerroom after the match?
Stubbs posted a video but the audio doesn't work.

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04-27-2013, 10:47 PM
  #575
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This is the Eller thread, not the gauthier thread.

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