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National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Why do people think Toews is better than Datsyuk?

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Old
03-03-2013, 08:32 PM
  #101
Hank4Hart
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He isn't better

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03-03-2013, 08:46 PM
  #102
Hawks82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serge2k View Post
I may be wrong, but wouldn't the voting have been finished before he scored?

I would have put Toews third probably. Kane and Keith.
I'm not sure when the voting took place. It definitely wouldn't surprise me if it took place before the OT period. I seem to remember Toews having an underwhelming SCF. Plus, Kane just seemed to be so very clutch for the Hawks in the 2010 playoffs...the Hawks would have gone to game 6 with Nashville without his short handed goal to send the game into OT in game 5.

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03-03-2013, 08:47 PM
  #103
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lol.. Datsyuk pretty easily.

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03-03-2013, 09:42 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by DatsyukianDeke View Post
lol.. Datsyuk pretty easily.
Care to explain this? It's obviously close either way.

They're nearly identical offensively, here are their stats since 2009-2010:
Toews - 236GP 95G 124A 219P, 0.93PPG
Datsyuk - 226GP 77G 141A 218P, 0.96PPG

And they're both elite defensively... Anyone that thinks it's anyone 'easily' or 'AINEC', for either player, is just plain ignorant.

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03-03-2013, 09:45 PM
  #105
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Because Toews is younger, so its interesting to think of what he's capable of. That and Datsyuk is in the running for the ugliest player in the league. People don't like ugly. This is also one of the reasons why Crosby was considered the best player in the league when Ovi was clearly the best.

As for the Canadian part, I can't refute that. Nobody who saw his performance in the Olympics or the WJC shootout can refute that.

Datsyuk is most certainly the better player though.

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03-03-2013, 09:52 PM
  #106
Harold Snepsts
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Toews is my favorite player on the Hawks, but right now Dats is better.

It took a few years for Dats years to develop into the player he is in the NHL and didn't hit his prime until his late 20s. Toews being in this conversation as a 24 yr old only shows what a great player he is and what a great career he has ahead of him.

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03-03-2013, 09:55 PM
  #107
xX Hot Fuss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Care to explain this? It's obviously close either way.

They're nearly identical offensively, here are their stats since 2009-2010:
Toews - 236GP 95G 124A 219P, 0.93PPG
Datsyuk - 226GP 77G 141A 218P, 0.96PPG

And they're both elite defensively... Anyone that thinks it's anyone 'easily' or 'AINEC', for either player, is just plain ignorant.
Ugh. Look at me i'm going to copy and paste some numbers and be instantly right! Stats are not the end all be all for these threads.

Datsyuk is more talented at every aspect of their games except for faceoffs. Toews is untouchable in that category.

Just my opinion from what i've observed on these boards in my 18 months here, but there is absolutely a bias against Euro, specifically Russian players on HF. If Pavel Datsyuk was named Peter Danahugh he'd be a hockey god by now and not "the most overrated player on HF"

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03-03-2013, 10:27 PM
  #108
Kirk Mclean
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He's not better. Not even close.

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03-03-2013, 10:45 PM
  #109
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Toews is an NHLPA communist shill.

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04-28-2013, 02:34 PM
  #110
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Pavel Datsyuk finished the season with more points than Jonathan Toews & was a +21 on a team that was overall +9. Toews finished +28 on a +53 team. Datsyuk also played with Abdelkader and Cleary as his wingers for near half the season.

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04-28-2013, 02:58 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
Pavel Datsyuk finished the season with more points than Jonathan Toews & was a +21 on a team that was overall +9. Toews finished +28 on a +53 team. Datsyuk also played with Abdelkader and Cleary as his wingers for near half the season.
Anyone who doesn't have these players as even is lying. Pretty much identical offensive production (Dats with a whole 1 point more but with Toews scoring 8 more goals). Doesn't Dats play with Zetterberg? I know he assisted on both Zetterberg goals yesterday. Contrary to popular belief, Toews didn't play with Kane hardly at all this year, and that includes the Power Play. Who cares what the team's goal differential was? Toews had the best +/- on the team by a comfortable margin (his line mate Hossa was 2nd and was +20 to Toews +28). It's not like he was being carried by the rest of the squad. Toews should be punished for being on a better team? Toews scored a lot more at even strength, Dats scored a lot more on the Power Play. Identical Takeaways, Toews with the higher Faceoff % but both very good. I think the reason for the perceived edge is that Toews is a lot younger so there's more excitement for his future while Dats only has a few good years left and then will likely head back to Russia. Plus, Toews is team captain so there's the leadership factor.

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04-28-2013, 03:01 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obey86 View Post
Pavel Datsyuk finished the season with more points than Jonathan Toews & was a +21 on a team that was overall +9. Toews finished +28 on a +53 team. Datsyuk also played with Abdelkader and Cleary as his wingers for near half the season.
Datsyuk finished with 1 more point and 8 fewer goals.

As to the linemates, Datsyuk's most common lines were

JUSTIN ABDELKADER PAVEL DATSYUK JOHAN FRANZEN 7%
HENRIK ZETTERBERG PAVEL DATSYUK JUSTIN ABDELKADER 5.54%
JUSTIN ABDELKADER PAVEL DATSYUK DANIEL CLEARY 5.42%

Dats played most of his time with Abdelkader but got a fair amount of time with Franzen and Zetterberg.

Both players finished 1st in +/- for their respective teams. Does it somehow hurt Toews's argument that his teammates also score goals when he's not on the ice?

Stats-wise these two are nearly identical players.

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Old
04-28-2013, 03:05 PM
  #113
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been said to death, but

body of work: dats
going forward: toews

also, moments like these are why i'd never trade him.






so clutch it hurts.

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04-28-2013, 03:22 PM
  #114
chanceoffleury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawks82 View Post
I'm not sure when the voting took place. It definitely wouldn't surprise me if it took place before the OT period. I seem to remember Toews having an underwhelming SCF. Plus, Kane just seemed to be so very clutch for the Hawks in the 2010 playoffs...the Hawks would have gone to game 6 with Nashville without his short handed goal to send the game into OT in game 5.
The Conn Smythe isn't the MVP of the Stanley Cup, it's the MVP of the Stanley Cup PLAYOFFS. As in ALL the games, not just the series that mattered most. Overall, Toews finished with more points, a better +/-, dominated the faceoff circle, had 3 GWG, more ice time than any other forward, played great on both sides of special teams, and also had significantly more hits, takeaways, blocked shots. Kane scored more goals then Toews. That's about it. I think you could have gone either way with Toews or Keith, so they gave it to the captain.

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04-28-2013, 03:28 PM
  #115
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Two of the best players in the world and they have an eerily similar overall value. I think Datsyuk is still at this point in time just a tad better.

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04-28-2013, 03:29 PM
  #116
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Sorry Dats is nasty, I think Toews will reach that level, but right now nahh.

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04-28-2013, 03:30 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanceoffleury View Post
The Conn Smythe isn't the MVP of the Stanley Cup, it's the MVP of the Stanley Cup PLAYOFFS. As in ALL the games, not just the series that mattered most. Overall, Toews finished with more points, a better +/-, dominated the faceoff circle, had 3 GWG, more ice time than any other forward, played great on both sides of special teams, and also had significantly more hits, takeaways, blocked shots. Kane scored more goals then Toews. That's about it. I think you could have gone either way with Toews or Keith, so they gave it to the captain.
Could have gone a bunch of ways. Toews really dominated that Canucks series but was fairly underwhelming 0 G 3 A in 6 GP in the SCF. Kane would have been a fine pick, but like usual it went to the guy with the most points on the winning team.

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04-28-2013, 03:31 PM
  #118
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Because Toews wins wherever he plays.

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04-28-2013, 03:32 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ujjy View Post
Toews is my favourite player but I think Datsyuk is better in pretty much every way. Only thing Toews has on him in age, but that's a pretty big factor.
Dats has peaked higher, but quite a bit too, and has had the better overall career.

Towes is young enough and has a good enough start to his career that it might be better overall when it's all said and done even if he never peaks as high as Dats.

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04-28-2013, 03:39 PM
  #120
Oogie Boogie
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His weewee is bigger than Datsyuks


Obviously.

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04-28-2013, 03:46 PM
  #121
Dominate Kesler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
Toews is a better leader, more vocal, and has intangibles.
Who cares? All of these traits are pretty irrelevant. How much value does being more "vocal" have?

Datsyuk's production over his career (compared to Toews) speaks for itself.

That said, Toews started his career at the age of 19, while Datsyuk started at the age of 23. That's a pretty significant difference.

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04-28-2013, 03:49 PM
  #122
WarriorofTime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
Who cares? All of these traits are pretty irrelevant. How much value does being more "vocal" have?

Datsyuk's production over his career (compared to Toews) speaks for itself.

That said, Toews started his career at the age of 19, while Datsyuk started at the age of 23. That's a pretty significant difference.
Toews PPG has increased every season of his career. That may explain some of the excitement of the pro-Toews crowd. Very well could be that his best is still to come.

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04-28-2013, 03:49 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by drmagg View Post
Intangibles


still cracks me up

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Old
04-28-2013, 03:52 PM
  #124
Chain Attack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ujjy View Post
Toews is my favourite player but I think Datsyuk is better in pretty much every way. Only thing Toews has on him in age, but that's a pretty big factor.
Speed is a pretty big factor as well. I think most would agree that Datsyuk sees the game better than any player in hockey today. If he had Crosby's speed he would be challenging for the Art Ross trophy every year.

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04-28-2013, 03:55 PM
  #125
MastuhNinks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominate Kesler View Post
Who cares? All of these traits are pretty irrelevant. How much value does being more "vocal" have?

Datsyuk's production over his career (compared to Toews) speaks for itself.

That said, Toews started his career at the age of 19, while Datsyuk started at the age of 23. That's a pretty significant difference.
Except their production over the past four seasons is nearly identical.

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