HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Official Bears/NFL Thread #18 -

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-28-2013, 04:47 PM
  #76
Recoil
Registered User
 
Recoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 2,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
@ZachZaidman: Mike Lupica on NFL Draft: "Most of the people doing the analyzing arent actually analyzing players, theyre analyzing 'experts.' "
Exactly. I don't know if I said this here, or on another forum (I can't keep track) my statement was that the biggest issue with perceived value and rankings of players, is that most of the opinions that fans get, come from all these mock draft / evaluation sites, and most of those sites get their information from just a small handful of "experts." Those few experts aren't the talent evaluators that NFL offices and scouts are and they don't have all the resources of 32 NFL teams.

People seem to treat their rankings as gospel instead of what they should be: Simply a starting off point.

Recoil is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 04:56 PM
  #77
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,807
vCash: 500
my biggest issue is that he took a guy last year that wasn't a good fit for us and he barely contributed when we were/are in win now mode. now this year he takes a guy with little experience playing ol and when he did it was in an unorthodox offense that is based around running.

imo, long is a project just like mcclellin and if we're going into a rebuild then we better commit to it.

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 05:07 PM
  #78
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
my biggest issue is that he took a guy last year that wasn't a good fit for us and he barely contributed when we were/are in win now mode. now this year he takes a guy with little experience playing ol and when he did it was in an unorthodox offense that is based around running.

imo, long is a project just like mcclellin and if we're going into a rebuild then we better commit to it.
Oregon doesn't run a gimmick offense, they run the spread. They just run it super fast

Illinihockey is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 05:17 PM
  #79
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,807
vCash: 500
strange, i don't see the word "gimmick" anywhere in my post, i see "unorthodox" which is 100% true.

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 05:34 PM
  #80
Recoil
Registered User
 
Recoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 2,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
my biggest issue is that he took a guy last year that wasn't a good fit for us and he barely contributed when we were/are in win now mode. now this year he takes a guy with little experience playing ol and when he did it was in an unorthodox offense that is based around running.

imo, long is a project just like mcclellin and if we're going into a rebuild then we better commit to it.
I'm not excusing Emery for his first career pick, because he said it was HIS pick and he owns it. But what I remember hearing is that Emery went to Lovie and Rod with a list of their best DE prospects and said "OK, which of these guys do you want?" and went with it. Marinelli LOVED McClellin.

That being said, I'm not convinced that McClellin was a wasted pick or a bust yet, but this season will tell the tale. So ask me again in February and we will see where things are at. We should also have a much better idea at how Jeffrey is panning out as a Pro WR after 2 seasons as well.

I suppose Long is a bit of a project, but with his physical gifts he is more of a short term than a long term project. I am expecting Kromer to coach him up well, and for him to start and play at a professional level by Week 1. By his second season, hopefully, he will be playing at a top level. But I think anything is possible with him his first season. So much talent waiting to be unlocked...

Recoil is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 05:40 PM
  #81
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
strange, i don't see the word "gimmick" anywhere in my post, i see "unorthodox" which is 100% true.
They run fast but it's not like Long was doing anything in that offense that is different than he'd be doing in any other spread offense. For the most part, blocking is blocking. It's not like being a qb where certain schemes hide players defects

Illinihockey is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 05:42 PM
  #82
MurrayBannerman
Uno Besto Washoooooo
 
MurrayBannerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CHI/Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 25,406
vCash: 470
Well, zone blocking and man blocking are suited for different types of linemen.

MurrayBannerman is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 05:57 PM
  #83
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Well, zone blocking and man blocking are suited for different types of linemen.
Fair point

Illinihockey is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 06:01 PM
  #84
zac
Registered User
 
zac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
UDFA's (Though some of these turn out wrong after initial reports since some are tweets by players themselves) who have signed with Bears

DT Brent Russell.
C PJ Lonergan
P Tress Way
WR Marcus Rucker
WR Josh Lenz
WR Marcus Harrison
I can fill you guys in a little on Josh Lenz. He was an Iowa State grad (my alma mater) and was the fastest player on the team. He was clocked at a 4.36 and 4.37 at the combine so he easily has the speed to be able to succeed at the next level. Although he was listed at 6' in college, he measured in at 5' 11'' and 201 at the combine. He's a very reliable slot receiver and isn't afraid to take a hit over the middle. Being that he was the speedster on the team, he was also used as a deep threat (though ineffective for much of the season as we lacked competent quarterbacks that could get him the ball).

Simply put, Lenz has quite a bit of talent but in our futile offense he rarely had a chance to shine. With his speed, hands, and toughness he has a decent chance to stick as 4-5 WR, and could conceivably be a very good punt returner. Good FA signing by the Bears.

zac is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 06:42 PM
  #85
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,807
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
They run fast but it's not like Long was doing anything in that offense that is different than he'd be doing in any other spread offense. For the most part, blocking is blocking. It's not like being a qb where certain schemes hide players defects
run blocking and pass blocking are different, Oregon was a run heavy team. i expect the bears are going to be fairly pass oriented and also will use a much more pocket based offense than oregon.

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 06:46 PM
  #86
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,643
vCash: 500
Let's see the kid play a few snaps in the Bears system before we start proclaiming him a bust or not.

Sir Psycho T is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 06:49 PM
  #87
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,807
vCash: 500
nobody has proclaimed him a bust.

well except bwc at least

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 07:10 PM
  #88
MurrayBannerman
Uno Besto Washoooooo
 
MurrayBannerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CHI/Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 25,406
vCash: 470
Madgoat is saying that we don't have the luxury of developing a 1st round pick.

MurrayBannerman is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 07:16 PM
  #89
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,807
vCash: 500
well, we do as long as we are willing to commit to a rebuild and not dipsy doodle around as a borderline po team like the past 6 seasons.

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 07:25 PM
  #90
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Madgoat is saying that we don't have the luxury of developing a 1st round pick.
Rookie DE's don't normally have a big impact. For example, Chris Long had 4 and 5 sacks his first two seasons. Jason Pierre Paul had 4. Mcclellin may suck, but a lot of defensive ends have looked like a bust in their first year

Illinihockey is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 07:29 PM
  #91
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
well, we do as long as we are willing to commit to a rebuild and not dipsy doodle around as a borderline po team like the past 6 seasons.
It's not like baseball, there's really no such thing as rebuilding in football. You can go from terrible to in the Super Bowl in 2 years.

Illinihockey is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 07:33 PM
  #92
MurrayBannerman
Uno Besto Washoooooo
 
MurrayBannerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CHI/Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 25,406
vCash: 470
Or you can be the Patriots.

MurrayBannerman is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 07:33 PM
  #93
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,884
vCash: 500
For what it's worth, here is what Kiper said about the draft

Summary: A few weeks ago I projected Kyle Long to the Bears at No. 20, but I projected that believing there's no chance Notre Dame tight end Tyler Eifert would still be available. I know they added Martellus Bennett, and maybe this is where he realizes his full talent, but this is also his third team. This is a huge year for Jay Cutler, and I love the idea of adding a versatile tight end like Eifert who you can never really cover well because of the way he attacks the ball. Last year, Brandon Marshall was the passing offense. My issue with Long isn't that he's short on talent -- he's not. I just wasn't in love with the value, even if you project him at tackle on a team needy for O-lineman. I see him as a better fit at guard, and that means the Bears took the fourth guard in the draft at No. 20 overall. But it got better. Jonathan Bostic and Khaseem Greene are very good linebackers, and Greene at No. 117 is one of the steals of the entire draft. Both of those guys will come in ready to play. Three months ago the Bears looked like a disaster at linebacker. They look a lot better today. Jordan Mills has a shot to stick, and while I admitted I probably overrated Cornelius Washington because he was such a workout freak, his tape wasn't bad enough to have him fall to the sixth. I'll want to find out why he fell so far. Marquess Wilson at one time was seen as a likely second-rounder. If he shows up to work consistently, he could be a steal. The Bears did some good things, and went for big needs, I just think they missed on value with Eifert.

Illinihockey is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 08:59 PM
  #94
ChiGuySez
Showtime
 
ChiGuySez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,441
vCash: 500
Most of the 'analysts' and casual scouts have Long projected at guard, at least to start. Heres what former Bears line coach Tony Wise who worked with Long prior to the Senior Bowl had to say...

Quote:
I tried to catch him up on what to expect at the Senior Bowl, the drills they do at the Senior Bowl, Wise told The Mully and Hanley Show. I just worked some pass protection stuff (with him.) After working with him, I told people that I talked to that Id put the guy at left tackle. He has that kind of ability. Hes too downward to play guard.

In a bit of a shocking revelation, Wise even said he thinks Long, 6-foot-6, 313 pounds, has all the ability that No. 1 & No. 2 overall selections, Luke Joeckel and Eric Fisher, demonstrate.

I dont want to insult anybody, but guards are a dime-a-dozen, Wise said. Guys with Kyles height and his reach and his ability to change directions and run, those guys dont come along very often. Ive seen film on some of these guys, and people are going to call me crazy, but Id stack him up against (Luke Joeckel of Texas A&M and Eric Fisher of Central Michigan). The only thing they did, is they played left tackle their entire career.
CBS

ChiGuySez is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 09:03 PM
  #95
Chris Hansen
Versteeg's Concubine
 
Chris Hansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,362
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
Or you can be the Patriots.
The perks of having one of the best quarterbacks ever for 10+ years.

Chris Hansen is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 10:48 PM
  #96
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,884
vCash: 500
Long has short arms for a tackle

Illinihockey is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 10:58 PM
  #97
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13,807
vCash: 500
honestly, i don't really care if a guy is projected to play guard or tackle based soley on talent because if you can't put it together on the field it didn't matter. look at all the"talent" vernon gholston had, or how we heard how physically awesome webb is. that said, I'm not calling any of these guys busts, same with last years draft, just seems like a curious route. it all comes down to what they do with cutler imo.

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 11:22 PM
  #98
ChiGuySez
Showtime
 
ChiGuySez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,441
vCash: 500
Either hes a player or not. Everyone will find out soon enough. He has the agility. Whether he can sustain contact or not or if speed rushes will blow past him no one knows yet. 1 inch in arm length is not really that significant.

He has his brother and father who will give him valuable information on what to expect from NFL pro rushers and what he needs to work on. Multi sport athlete formerly drafted by the Sox. Age is a concern but on the other hand has matured and the previous problems appear to be behind him as opposed to getting a young kid with those problems emerging.

ChiGuySez is offline  
Old
04-28-2013, 11:36 PM
  #99
Recoil
Registered User
 
Recoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 2,750
vCash: 500
I know most people will dismiss this, but while all the points about him having elite physical talent, yet being raw, I'm putting a good amount of stock in his football pedigree. He has a Hall of Fame dad, and a brother who has been an NFL starter for 3-4 years --- and he's the most athletically gifted of them all. I actually think that does count for something and is reason to believe he will work out.

There was a great article about this pick by Dan Pompeii that I saw on another site. Dan gave his review of the pick and the player, and in the end stated that Long is a Top 10 talent, but just didn't have the experience of the top players in this draft. Yet, he also stated that he wouldn't consider him a typical "developmental" pick because of how well he already played at the Senior Bowl against the nations best talent.

Here's two good articles for you guys to read:

Dan Pompeii Tribune Article on Kyle Long

(The above article is behind a paywall. If you download the add-on NoScript 2.6.6 in Firefox it gets you in just fine. You can disable the script when you are done)

Pre-draft article on our 6th round DE Cornelius Washington

This article is interesting for a few reasons. First, it mentions Washington's great strength against 3 first round prospects: Chance Warmack, Justin Pugh, and...Kyle Long. Second, it shows how he really improved when they changed his stance late in the 2012 season. Looks to me like this guy was underutilized and was incorrectly used most of the time, when he was at Georgia. Decent long term possibilities with a couple years of coaching.

Recoil is offline  
Old
04-29-2013, 06:23 AM
  #100
Bubba88
Toews = Savior
 
Bubba88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bavaria
Country: Germany
Posts: 24,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
I don't expect him to play at all this season
that's what Emery said. They will have him listed as RT to learn and he will battle with Webb and Scott.

I see the chance that he makes the team about 0.01% for this upcoming season



Talk about the picks and tell me more about the Bears switching to a 3-4 soon. discuss

Bubba88 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.