HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Marc Staal

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-29-2013, 09:38 AM
  #201
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 12,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcman View Post
I always thought puck to eye syndrome was hereditary
It is, but the Staals were unaware the possessed that gene. That's why the rest of them all added visors.

Tawnos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 09:47 AM
  #202
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,562
vCash: 500
If Staal is traded to the Canes, I'd be willing to bet the 1st rounder will be the "second piece" in the deal. An NHLer needs to come back. As much as I'd like that NHLer to be Faulk, I think he's an untouchable for the Canes.

That being said, I think the top-5 players in this draft (Jones, MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov and Nichushkin) are all pretty close to being NHL ready. They might not help next season, but 2014 is certainly a real possibility. So if the Canes can stay in 5th, that pick is very valuable.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 09:54 AM
  #203
Mikos87
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The pens got 8th overall, Brandon Sutter and Brian Dumoulin for Jordan Staal, who only had 1 year left on his deal. Marc is worth at least as much. Pittsburgh only moved him AFTER he turned down a 10 year deal.

The Rangers are going to try to re-sign Staal. If during negotiations it becomes apparent that he wants to go to carolina, then they can trade him. But not until then.
Bingo. QFT. Only other scenario is that Carolina pays an obscene price. No 1 defensemen don't grow on trees. Especially ones on cost controlled contracts. I fail to see why a large portion of the fan base is so charitable in their return.

What did Alex Goligoski, playing 3rd pair EV min and 2nd unit PP fetch?

Skinner to start, Faulk to sweeten, and then we start talking.

Mikos87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 09:57 AM
  #204
BLOCKERSAVE
Registered User
 
BLOCKERSAVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 75
vCash: 500
What "IF" the Rangers win the SC. And Staal gets his SC. With it be wise to trade him and get some assets?

BLOCKERSAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 10:02 AM
  #205
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,865
vCash: 500
Philly traded Carter for Couturier(8th pick in the draft),Voracek and a 3rd. If Staal can't commit to the Rangers long-term and has designs on joining his brothers in Carolina,the Rangers need to protect the organization. Tampering? The Staal brothers can talk to Marc about Carolina. Rutherford can't have any discussions with the Staal brothers about Marc. Rutherford was confident about Jordan signing an extension. He said the Staal brothers wanted to play on the same team and was confident about signing Jordan. Who told him that? Eric. The GM isn't allowed to discuss players on a different team with a player on his roster.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 10:07 AM
  #206
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Philly traded Carter for Couturier(8th pick in the draft),Voracek and a 3rd. If Staal can't commit to the Rangers long-term and has designs on joining his brothers in Carolina,the Rangers need to protect the organization. Tampering? The Staal brothers can talk to Marc about Carolina. Rutherford can't have any discussions with the Staal brothers about Marc. Rutherford was confident about Jordan signing an extension. He said the Staal brothers wanted to play on the same team and was confident about signing Jordan. Who told him that? Eric. The GM isn't allowed to discuss players on a different team with a player on his roster.
True, but Eric can say to Rutherford, "Jordan will sign here long-term if you trade for him." Can do the same for Marc.

patnyrnyg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 10:07 AM
  #207
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLOCKERSAVE View Post
What "IF" the Rangers win the SC. And Staal gets his SC. With it be wise to trade him and get some assets?
If we win a cup I'm ok with moving some assets to reload for the future. But that's a big if.

broadwayblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 10:13 AM
  #208
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,865
vCash: 500
It becomes apparent Staal doesn't want to sign an extension with the Rangers in July 2014 and he wants to play in Carolina,the Rangers try to move him to Carolina. Pittsburgh had the Rangers to use against Carolina to get their asking price. The Rangers don't have another team to use as leverage. The Rangers were trying to acquire Jordan in a trade last June. Sather spoke to Shero. So its either accept what the Canes are offering next summer or keep Staal for 14-15 and he walks for nothing. Trading him this summer gets Carolina 2 years of Staal before he becomes a group III. I love Staal but is really a #1 D? The offensive game isn't there for him to be a #1 D. Don't say he will add offense because Staal is 26 years old. He isn't the young kid in his 3rd year anynore. He may only have one good eye going forward. There is no guarantee the vision will be 100% clear. The organization comes before any player.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 10:29 AM
  #209
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,560
vCash: 500
Moving Staal may be the best way to maximize asset value. It also may not be the best way to maximize Cup value.

The next two seasons are the Rangers main window where they still have young talent on ELCs/2nd contracts and can also have higher UFA deals on the books. Staal's value to the team over that window is significantly more than even a 5th/6th overall 18y/o kid.

Next 5 years? Yea I'd take the pick. 9x out of 10 in this scenario I'd take the pick actually. But in this instance I think Staal and his ability to contribute to the Rangers window is worth more.

Also, as RB pointed out, compared to the Pens the Rangers have a lot less leverage. Likely wouldn't even be able to get their pick this year. Would I trade Staal for McBain and a 2014 1st? No chance.

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 10:38 AM
  #210
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Also, as RB pointed out, compared to the Pens the Rangers have a lot less leverage. Likely wouldn't even be able to get their pick this year. Would I trade Staal for McBain and a 2014 1st? No chance.
How do we have less leverage? Jordan wanted to go to carolina. Were the pens really going to trade him to us, a division rival?

If Marc decides he wants to go to carolina, we can trade him, but we are under no obligation to trade him to carolina. We can trade him anywhere we want and he can sign with carolina when he becomes UFA.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 11:03 AM
  #211
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,499
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
How do we have less leverage? Jordan wanted to go to carolina. Were the pens really going to trade him to us, a division rival?

If Marc decides he wants to go to carolina, we can trade him, but we are under no obligation to trade him to carolina. We can trade him anywhere we want and he can sign with carolina when he becomes UFA.
I'm sure that will entice a ton of teams....

Championship* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 11:37 AM
  #212
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,865
vCash: 500
Jordan was going to sign an extension with the Rangers or Carolina. Those were the two teams bidding for Jordan. He was one year away from group III. Not many teams were giving up significant assets for one year knowing Jordan was going to leave. Its like the Rangers with Richards. Dallas refused to move Richards in the summer of 2010 when the Rangers inquired about him. Dallas know their odds of getting Richards re-signed were a longshot with the flux in ownership. Dallas had a terrific first half in 10-11. Then Richards suffered the concussion and the Stars slumped. Then Nieuwendyk decided he wanted to move Richards and demanded all of the assets from the Rangers. Sather was willing to wait until July. Sather was willing to acquire Richards at the deadline for the right price. Richards had a no move so he controlled the situation. Nieuwendyk lost his job on Saturday. Not very surprising.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 11:40 AM
  #213
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,927
vCash: 500
If the argument is that we'd get more for Staal this offseason, that's difficult to contest. I think the counterargument would be that losing Staal for next year hurts our chances of winning a cup in another year of our "window."

Though, you could argue that the emergence of Stepan,the -3 year flip of Gaborik for Nash, has extended our window a bit.

Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 11:42 AM
  #214
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,971
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Though, you could argue that the emergence of Stepan,the -3 year flip of Gaborik for Nash, has extended our window a bit.

Isn't the window pretty much based on Lundqvist?

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:02 PM
  #215
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers don't have another team to use as leverage. The Rangers were trying to acquire Jordan in a trade last June. Sather spoke to Shero. So its either accept what the Canes are offering next summer or keep Staal for 14-15 and he walks for nothing.
So No other team would want Staal's services? I find that hard to believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
I love Staal but is really a #1 D? The offensive game isn't there for him to be a #1 D
He scored 11 points in 21 games, on pace for 25 over 48, that would place him top 20 which is clearly #1 category.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:08 PM
  #216
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
So No other team would want Staal's services? I find that hard to believe.
If there's a real risk he's only going to Carolina? No. Nobody else would trade for him.

Quote:
He scored 11 points in 21 games, on pace for 25 over 48, that would place him top 20 which is clearly #1 category.
On-pace doesn't mean very much, especially in shortened season where Chris Kunitz was a better than PPG player who outscored both Sedins, Datsyuk, Toews, and Parise.

He's never topped 29 points in his career. You can bend the stats however you like, but a true #1 defender is elite in both ends of the ice. Staal is elite defensively, but average offensively.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:13 PM
  #217
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
He's never topped 29 points in his career. You can bend the stats however you like, but a true #1 defender is elite in both ends of the ice. Staal is elite defensively, but average offensively.
By that definition there are only a handful of #1 defensemen. Certainly nowhere close to 30. You don't have to be an elite offensive force to be considered a #1 dman. Marc Staal would be the best dman on at least half the teams in the league.

broadwayblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:15 PM
  #218
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If there's a real risk he's only going to Carolina? No. Nobody else would trade for him.



On-pace doesn't mean very much, especially in shortened season where Chris Kunitz was a better than PPG player who outscored both Sedins, Datsyuk, Toews, and Parise.

He's never topped 29 points in his career. You can bend the stats however you like, but a true #1 defender is elite in both ends of the ice. Staal is elite defensively, but average offensively.
The point was he doesn't have an offensive game, which is not true.
You can also bend the facts to build a case to trade Staal, he is still number 1.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:18 PM
  #219
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
By that definition there are only a handful of #1 defensemen. Certainly nowhere close to 30. You don't have to be an elite offensive force to be considered a #1 dman. Marc Staal would be the best dman on at least half the teams in the league.
Which is why it's the correct definition. True "#1 defensemen" are few and far between. #1 guys are "do it all" players. They play the hardest minutes and are a major factor in the offensive zone as well. Staal is a top-pairing defender without question, but he is not a true #1 at this point.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:21 PM
  #220
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Which is why it's the correct definition. True "#1 defensemen" are few and far between. #1 guys are "do it all" players. They play the hardest minutes and are a major factor in the offensive zone as well. Staal is a top-pairing defender without question, but he is not a true #1 at this point.
So we are now talking about "true" number 1's, not just number 1's?

If he were a "true" number 1 by your definition, First + Faulk + Tlusty is not remotely close.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:24 PM
  #221
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,513
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Which is why it's the correct definition. True "#1 defensemen" are few and far between. #1 guys are "do it all" players. They play the hardest minutes and are a major factor in the offensive zone as well. Staal is a top-pairing defender without question, but he is not a true #1 at this point.
To me, #1 defenseman is mathematically defined. Just like the number of starting goalies and state senators.

__________________


Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Thirty One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:30 PM
  #222
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
So we are now talking about "true" number 1's, not just number 1's?

If he were a "true" number 1 by your definition, First + Faulk + Tlusty is not remotely close.
And he isn't a true #1 by my definition, so what's the point of even bringing that up? We're talking about Marc Staal, not Shea Weber or Zdeno Chara.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
To me, #1 defenseman is mathematically defined. Just like the number of starting goalies and state senators.
So then there should only be, at most, 15 "#1" defenders in the NHL. Even if that was the case, Staal wouldn't be on that list.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:32 PM
  #223
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
And he isn't a true #1 by my definition, so what's the point of even bringing that up? We're talking about Marc Staal, not Shea Weber or Zdeno Chara.



So then there should only be, at most, 15 "#1" defenders in the NHL. Even if that was the case, Staal wouldn't be on that list.
I was wondering the same thing.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:33 PM
  #224
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
I was wondering the same thing.
You were wondering why you brought up that bit about that package not being worth it?

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-29-2013, 12:36 PM
  #225
Kwayry
Take the damn deal
 
Kwayry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plano
Country: United States
Posts: 2,914
vCash: 500
Going back to Staal, he is a number 1 signed to a sweetheart of a deal, is part of the core. If Carlina wants him, they have to pony up.
If Sather puts him on the trade block, i can think of many teams that would want him on their blue line and would be willing to pay up.
The notion that we have to accept Carolina's offer or he walks is a stretch.

Kwayry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:40 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.