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The Vanek Thread

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Old
04-29-2013, 12:43 PM
  #101
Strummergas
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
This actually makes the most sense from my perspective. Isles have a ton of cap room, and a bunch of young assets that BUFF would want as part of a rebuild. Isles are a team on the rise, and they'd have to be able to sell Vanek on that and get an extension agreed to before making the deal.
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Originally Posted by Kevin27NYI View Post
Would love for the Isles to nab him, JT and Vanek would be sweet.
This is the type of trade the Isles should be looking to make at this stage of their rebuild. I'm not sure what it would take, but I'd have to imagine that Nino and the 1st wouldn't be a bad starting point if Buffalo is going to rebuild..

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04-29-2013, 12:47 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Strummergas View Post
This is the type of trade the Isles should be looking to make at this stage of their rebuild. I'm not sure what it would take, but I'd have to imagine that Nino and the 1st wouldn't be a bad starting point if Buffalo is going to rebuild..
I think that'd be a great starting point. The biggest weakness in our prospect pool right now is a dearth of natural, skilled wingers. I imagine until NYI moves to Brooklyn, there will still be some concerns there about salary, though?

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04-29-2013, 12:48 PM
  #103
Brad Doty
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Buffalo doesnt need Bernier.

What I would propose....


Vanek +enroth for Bernier+Toffoli+ Brown
Probably fair value but I don't see LA trading roster players outside of Bernier (and Toffoli if you count him as one).

It would hurt to give up Toffoli but I'm sure he'd have to be included. Bernier/Toffoli/pick? Prob. not enough. He'd be great in LA...we need a high-end LW bad and if I'm not mistaken DL has kicked the tires on Vanek before, but I'm not sure that the cap implications/roster implications would work out for both teams.

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04-29-2013, 12:48 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
Mind telling us what you thought Pominville would fetch? Let me guess: a 2nd, a cap dump, and some B prospects?
I think Vanek could get more than offered by the Op, but my feeling with Pominville is that he got more back than expected because after the Wild went out and spent so much money on UFAs, it would have been embarassing to miss the playoffs.

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04-29-2013, 12:49 PM
  #105
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I dunno. Seems to me if the Flyers were to allocate 7 million in cap space to one player in the long term, winger is the last place they should put it.

They'd be wiser to take a second look at acquiring Shea Weber. And heck, maybe even Miller. Miller's on no better terms with beat writers than Bryz is, but, sort of like Pronger, he doesn't play worse under adverse conditions with beat reporters, he just treats them like they're troglodytes.

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04-29-2013, 12:53 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I dunno. Seems to me if the Flyers were to allocate 7 million in cap space to one player in the long term, winger is the last place they should put it.

They'd be wiser to take a second look at acquiring Shea Weber. And heck, maybe even Miller. Miller's on no better terms with beat writers than Bryz is, but, sort of like Pronger, he doesn't play worse under adverse conditions with beat reporters, he just treats them like they're troglodytes.
If the Flyers insist on spending $7 million, then they should simply use $5.5 on a shortish-term deal for Streit, and the other $1.5 on an upgrade of the training staff...

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04-29-2013, 12:53 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
I think that'd be a great starting point. The biggest weakness in our prospect pool right now is a dearth of natural, skilled wingers. I imagine until NYI moves to Brooklyn, there will still be some concerns there about salary, though?
Possibly, but there's rumors of the team moving a year early and they may want to generate even more buzz upon their arrival with the addition of another marquee name.

Besides, even though the Isles have a plethora of highly touted prospects that could be on the verge of breaking into the league as early as next season, I'd be willing to bet that none of them have the same immediate impact as Vanek's arrival would.

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04-29-2013, 12:56 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
Players one year from UFA don't yield future 70-90 point franchise centermen as a return. They never have. Even this deal is more than Vanek will get. Two top six wingers in Gionta and Kristo, a future roster player and damn near(When you consider the depth of the 2013 draft) two firsts. Even when you account the division factor Kessel yielded less of a return(until Toronto finished near the bottom of the standings twice). There's a reason HFBoards is 99% of the time wrong about value, everybody assumes their players are worth more than any real life trade in history has ever yielded. .
A player of Vaneks skill/ability does get you a player with top 2 line scorring potential.

Gionta isnt a top 2 forward anymore.

Kristo may be a top 2 forward line but college players are very hard to predict how they will be.


History says otherwise with the draft-----the picks 20-40 have less than 50/50 shot of being anything outise a 3rd/4th line player or bottom pair Dmen. Sure there can be some great players but its alot of luck. These picks will not be certain players.

I would feel much better trading with a team like Philadelphia or New Jersey where their 1st in the range of likely getting a very good player.

Even Ottawa has a better pick which would likely be 17th. They had alot more in terms of young talent in their pipeline they could trade. With Alfredsons retirement they have cap room to absorb Vaneks slary much more so.

History is on my side when it comes to trades----

the expected price will be a 1st+ top 3 young player + a top 10 quality young player


Look at past top line player traded. Most recently being Nash and Pominville. Iginla was different because he seriously limited who he got traded to.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
When Vanek goes for a 1st, prospect and an average roster player with Buffalo retaining salary or adding a throw in you will see. The only way Vanek would get more is if Buffalo moved him at the deadline to a team going for the cup.
.
As I said before---they arent against a cap wall...so they can just hold onto him until during next season and wait till the deadline and get a kings ranson for him.

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04-29-2013, 12:59 PM
  #109
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Inner division teams: plan on giving up almost twice as much as you would think.

Inner conference teams: plan on giving up more than you would think.

West: See Pominville deal, and recognize that Vanek's offensive game is better and defensive game is decent.

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04-29-2013, 01:01 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by loadie View Post
I think Vanek could get more than offered by the Op, but my feeling with Pominville is that he got more back than expected because after the Wild went out and spent so much money on UFAs, it would have been embarassing to miss the playoffs.
Pominville is still a first line talent. his price is a 1st + 2 quality prospects. past deadline deals bears this out.

e didnt get any of Minnesota's top 3. Both were in their top 10.

The thing of them getting 4 pieces---people forget that Buffalo through back a 4th in 2014.

The flip of 2014 picks was likely to make up for Buffalo taking Hackett when they really wanted one of Minnesita's other 2 young goalies ---Gustafsson and Kuemper. Minnesota seemed to want to move Hackett because next year is his last year of waiver freedom while the other two goalies have alot more time.

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04-29-2013, 01:02 PM
  #111
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Big no on any deal involving Gionta.

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04-29-2013, 01:05 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by KEEROLE Vatanen View Post
That requires another team wanting Briere at his cap hit.
it is unlikely the sabres would be willing to do such a favor
Will Buffalo be near the cap limit for the next two years? If not, then Briere's $6.5m cap hit is not as important as his average salary of only $2.5 m.

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04-29-2013, 01:05 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Ottawa is the team I'd look for to make a really good offer.

Gonchar is coming off the books at the end of this season creating lots of salary room, they've needed another star forward since Heatley left town and they've got one of the deepest pools of young talent.

They could easily put together a package including some of the following quality assets: 1st/2nd round picks, Michalek (who could be dealt to a 3rd team), Zibanejad, Conachor, Silfverbeg, Ceci.
I'd probably do 1st, Silfverberg, Ceci for Vanek and a pick.

What a lot of people don't realize is that Vanek is not a pure offensive talent. If there's one thing I praise Ruff for it's for at least attempting to teach him a two-way game. Because of that, Vanek's no slouch in any one area of the ice. So his value is just as high if not higher than Pominville's.

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04-29-2013, 01:08 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by wearegodawful View Post
I'd probably do 1st, Silfverberg, Ceci for Vanek and a pick.
i think that's a very solid offer.

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04-29-2013, 01:12 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
i think that's a very solid offer.
Problem for us is that Vanek knows our game all too well. He'd tear us up in a Sens jersey. But I personally could not say no to those prospects. Let's get Murray and Regier chattin'.

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04-29-2013, 01:14 PM
  #116
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Beaulieu, Gallagher, 1st minimum. Probably another solid roster player or prospect.


Last edited by Girgenburger: 04-29-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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Old
04-29-2013, 01:16 PM
  #117
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Pominville got a better return then what the op proposed and Vanek's a lot better then him.

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04-29-2013, 01:20 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I"d doubt that Vanek would waive to go to EDM, but that's just IMO. I think he'd waive for a location that he'd consider playing long term at, and I understand he signed an offer-sheet there, but the organization was definitely in a different spot than what it is right now.

Um...Vanek has no cntrol on beng moved.

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04-29-2013, 01:20 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Hmm---I though they couldnt talk contract stuff until July 1st.....

To the media Vanek has said he doesnt want to be there if they do a major rebuild that could take 5 yrs. A short retool ---he stays.

l wouldnt be surprised to see them make a significant deal outside of one that involved Miller, Vanek or Stafford.


What place was Montreal in last year? seems kind of easy for teams to rebound.

The issue with Buffalo which is why they missed the playoffs was that they played against the SE division very poorly. In the past they have been one of the best teams against the Western Conference.

I think a rebound can easily happen with them.
Come on man, your reaching here.

Vanek has said he wants out, he's going to leave pretty much regardless of next year.

And if you seriously think Vanek is worth 2 1sts, a Top prospect, and a Roster player, then there is no hope.


He's got 1 year left on his contract, and has said he wants to test the Free Agent waters. He has only twice had 70+ point seasons, and hasn't been an elite goal scorer since the 08/09 season.

Right now, he's probably worth a mid 1st(15-20 range) + B level prospect(Colborne, Thrower, Jaskin) + maybe a bottom pairing Dman/bottom 6 forward.

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04-29-2013, 01:23 PM
  #120
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Vanek is a fantastic player and all, but I'm not paying anything like that price to rent him for 1 year. Pass.

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04-29-2013, 01:23 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
lol your asking way to much If vanek wants out of there ur not in a postion to ask for top value. His contract and him wanting out combined with the leagues cap going down lowers his value considerably
Vanek has not said he wants out of Buffalo. He has said he does not want to be part of a long rebuild. Not the same thing.

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Old
04-29-2013, 01:24 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post

1. Ceci: taken 15th overall in this past draft. Had another good season and looks like the Sens made a smart pick OR the Sens 1st rounder this year which will fall around that 15th overall mark.

2. Conachor: 23 year old rookie winger whose got 28 points this season. He looks to have a good career ahead of him as a 2nd line winger.

3. 2nd round pick so Buffalo can choose who they want OR a decent prospect in Puempel or Prince.
Concecher---no---first he is 25--not 23. second he is small.

Buffalo would ask for a different forward for Ottawa....Zibenajoad maybe. Only way they take a 2nd is if its a top end prospect.

Remmember Ottawa is in the same division so Ottawa will after to offer more for Buffalo to take it from them. All being equal he goes out west.

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04-29-2013, 01:25 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
lol your asking way to much If vanek wants out of there ur not in a postion to ask for top value. His contract and him wanting out combined with the leagues cap going down lowers his value considerably
history says otherwse.....

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04-29-2013, 01:29 PM
  #124
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Gaborik had a a year and a half on his contract when he was traded just a few weeks ago. He also makes more than Vanek. Vanek's cap hit will be less than 3 Million at the trade deadline and even less than that when Buffalo eats salary.

It's quite hilarious the return people expected Perry to get before he was extended compared to the scraps people now think Vanek will get.
so your going to hold on to someone who doesnt want to play for u for half a season? That will not be good for all the kids coming up not to mention the locker room. If its true vanek wants out he ll get something a little better then iggy. A first/second roster player (depending on who makes it a 1st or 2nd) and b prospect. with the cap going down the teams that can afford him are in the drivers seat.

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Old
04-29-2013, 01:30 PM
  #125
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history says otherwse.....
when in history has the cap gone down and a star has asked to be traded ..... ?

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