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Old
04-27-2013, 05:28 PM
  #1
AvsWraith
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Report Card

End of the Season, and once again, it's time for the annual final report card for the team.

*** Forwards ***

Duchene [A+] - Took the 3.5 bridge to prove himself, and that's what he did. Whatever he did in the off-season helped a lot.
Had a better looking shot, was way better in decision making, and the speed was just blazing. He and PAP are pretty much the only
ones that looked ready to make a playoff run. Nice bounce back from Dutchy!

PAP [A+] - One of the best UFA pickups we've ever had. Guy definitley was not just a product of Tavares. Love pretty much
everything about his game. Whenever he and Dutchy are out on the ice together, I tend to forget how bad the team is, which
is a huge compliment.

McCleod [B] - Pretty solid season from Cody. Had some good goals, fights, ect. Just Cody being Cody.

Bordeleau [B] - An really good enforcer that can also play hockey is a really nice asset to have. Bordy showed me a lot this season. He's not just a goon, there is some real skill there too. Looking forward to him being a regular on our fourth line next season.

Mitchell [B-/C+] - Started off really hot, but than cooled down, which was to be expected as he was over-achieving early on. Finished the season playing with Dutchy and PAP, and was solid. Don't know where he will fit in next season, but I'm okay with him on the third or fourth line.

McGinn [B-/C+] - Hit a lot of posts, but also put up a respectable amount of goals considering the amount of games.
Hope he'll continue to get better next season.

Landy [C+] - Can't really fault him because of the early concussion, sophomore jinx mojo, and extra pressure in being named captain at such a young age, but still, his game didn't really progress at all. The shooting from last year was no where to be found. Still like his game though. Love the way he moves with the puck, the vision, and the PK'ing is still really good. Hoping he can bounce back next season, like Dutchy did.

ROR [C+] - Still don't understand the holdout. Came back, looked a lot slower and less explosive than last year. Is still a beast defensively, and got some good goals, but the clutch leader from last season was nowhere to be found. Don't know if the bad blood is still lingering, but something is really off about him.

Hejduk [C] - Was injured a lot, probably should've retired at the end of last season, and yet still managed to put up more points than Jones. lol. Congrats to him for a wonderful career. It has truly been a pleasure to have seen him play for our team. Took hometown discounts, when he could've gotten a lot more, to stay with us. I will never forget the memories that he gave us. #23 #SwimmingOnTheIce #SuckItBelfour

Kobasew [C] - Meh. Was okay, but I think we can do better.

Palushaj [C-] - Like the speed and the willingness to shoot, but like
Kobasew, I think we can do better with someone else.

Olver [C-] - Probably should be with Lake Erie, but I don't mind him on a lower line. Good agitator, and can chip in some
goals on occasion.

Stastny [C-] - Stastny the friendly ghost, the friendliest ghost you know! Will probably play a lot better once he leaves us, but who wouldn't? That being said, he had some moments this year, but just like every other year, it is never consistent. Think it is time to explore other options, most likely with our draft pick.

Jones [F-] - *Puking Sounds*

--- Exceptions from the grading process because of lack of games played:

Malone - looked good with what ice time he got. Hoping he can make the fourth line next season.
Downie - Injured
Van Der Gulik - Lake Erie bound
Vincour - Liked what I saw with the limited amount of time
Sgarbossa - Liked his game okay, but would've liked to see him with some better talent

*** Defensemen ***

Barrie [C+] - His play from the beginning to end of the season has been a nice upward curve. Looking more comfortable, getting in better positions, shooting the puck a little better (still needs some work). I've been impressed with the progress.

Elliot [C-] - His play towards the end of the season has put him in a lot better standing for next year. Still needs a lot of work, but he is getting better.

Hejda [C-] - Just okay, as usual.

Hunwick [D+] - Wasn't as bad as he has been in the past. Like the speed, but that is about it.

EJ [D+] - 4 points, 0 goals, and minus 3 in 30 games. Showed good shutdown defense at times, but needs to be so much more for us.
If it was decided this season, The Blues robbed us blind, murdered us, and than spit on our grave with this trade.

Orr'Brien [D] - Ugh.

Zanon [F] - WTF Sherman???

--- Exceptions

Wilson - injured, as usual
ROB - Traded, and there was much rejoicing


*** Goalies ***

Varly [C-] - Bi-polar goaltending. Didn't get a lot of help, but when he did, managed to let in some softies. Rebound control was an issue again. With a defense this bad though, I think Varly is gonna get a pass until next season.

Giggy [C] - Was solid in the backup role. Actually finished with a winning record, but that is mostly because I think he communicates better with his defense than Varly does. We know his status as a veteran and Con Smythe winner also has an impact on the team. Hope we can get some more veterans on the team next year, so the team motivation can be consistent through the whole year.

--- Exceptions
Pickard - Might get backup duties next season. Looking forward to see what he can do.
Aittokallio - Sad that he didn't get to finish his first game with the team, but hopefully he can
get another opportunity down the line.

*** Ownership - Coaching - Management ***

Sacco [F] - To quote The Terminator... "Get Out."

Sherman [C--] - EJ trade, keeping Sacco around, and Zanon killed your grade. However, the PAP signing kept it in the C range.

PL [F] - Out with the old and in with the new! No nepotism either!

Kroenkes - no point in even giving a grade since they don't even know they own a hockey team.

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Old
04-27-2013, 05:36 PM
  #2
skip2mybordeleau
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without going into details

Duchene [A-]

PAP [A+]

McCleod [B]

Bordeleau [C+]

Mitchell [B-]

McGinn [B-]

Landy [C]

ROR [C+]

Hejduk [D]

Kobasew [C+]

Palushaj [C-]

Olver [D]

Stastny [C-]

Jones [F]


Barrie [B]

Elliot [C]

Hejda [C]

Hunwick [D+]

EJ [D-]

Orr'Brien [D]

Zanon [F]




Varly [C]

Jiggy [B-]

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Old
04-27-2013, 06:14 PM
  #3
finds71
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Duchene [A+]

PAP [A+]

McCleod [B+]

Bordeleau [B]

McGinn [B]

Kobasew [B]

ROR [B-]

Mitchell [C+]

Palushaj [C+]

Landy [C]

Stastny [C-]

Hejduk [D]

Olver [D]

Jones [FFFF]



Barrie [B+]

Hunwick [B-]

Elliot [C+]

Hejda [C+]

O'Brien [C-]

EJ [F]

Zanon [F]



Jiggy [B-]

Varly [C+]

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Old
04-27-2013, 06:45 PM
  #4
the_fan
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Everybody gets F except Duchene and PAP.

Giguere gets an F- for screwing any chance this team had picking 1st overall.

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Old
04-27-2013, 07:02 PM
  #5
shadow1
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Duchene and Parenteau were awesome, Barrie and Elliott improved greatly. Everyone else was bad/forgettable.

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Old
04-27-2013, 08:03 PM
  #6
Bonzai12
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gold stars for everybody. yay.

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Old
04-28-2013, 02:28 AM
  #7
Congo Jack
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Dater posted his player grading.

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/...-player-grades

Hunwick was better than Barrie?

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Old
04-28-2013, 06:21 AM
  #8
Colorado Avalanche
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I disagree with Barrie. He should be B at least. He was great burst for this team.

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Old
04-28-2013, 01:01 PM
  #9
dahrougem2
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A
Matt Duchene
P.A. Parenteau
Jean-Sebastien Giguere

B
Jamie McGinn
Cody McLeod
Chuck Kobasew
Jan Hejda
John Mitchell
Matt Hunwick
Erik Johnson
Tyson Barrie

C
Paul Stastny
Gabriel Landeskog
Ryan O'Reilly (Contract holdout or else he's a B)
Semyon Varlamov
Patrick Bordeleau
Aaron Palushaj

D
Shane O'Brien
Mark Olver
Milan Hejduk

F
Greg Zanon

Not Enough Time
Stefan Elliott
Michael Sgarbossa
Brad Malone
David van der Gulik
Sami Aittokallio
Tomas Vincour
Steve Downie
Ryan Wilson

ECHL Bound
David Jones

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Old
04-28-2013, 01:14 PM
  #10
WarriorOfGandhi
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A

Duchene
Parenteau
Aittokallio

B

Barrie
Mitchell
Palushaj
ROR (would get A if not for contract BS)
Downie
Vincour

C

Landy
Giggy
McGinn
McLeod
SOB
Kobasew
Wilson
Malone

D

Stastny
Hunwick
Elliott
Bordeleau
Hejduk
Olver
EJ
Varly
DVDG
Sgarbossa

F

Jones
Zanon
ROB

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Old
04-29-2013, 11:09 AM
  #11
ABasin
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Forwards:
A: Duchene, Parenteau
B:
C: McLeod, Bordeleau, Mitchell, O'R, Landeskog, McGinn (might be worth a B), Stastny, Palushaj
D: Kobasew, Hejduk, Olver
F: Jones
Inc: Downie

Defensemen:
B: Barrie
C: Hejda
D: Everyone else
Inc: Wilson

Goaltenders:
C: Giguere
D: Varlamov

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Old
04-29-2013, 11:20 AM
  #12
Lonewolfe2015
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Considering 'C' means average, I'll just point out the above/below expectations people.

Above
Duchy, PAP, Barrie, McLeod, Bordy, Giggy

Below
Lando, ROR, Jones, EJ, Varly

Everyone else I roughly expected to get that level of play out of them. Some would be closer to above, like Hejda or McGinn, others closer to below like Elliott or Staz.

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Old
04-29-2013, 11:45 AM
  #13
henchman24
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Going into some details... players get graded higher for being over expectations

Forwards:
Parenteau - A+ Everything you expected and more. Has a better shot than advertised and more grit than I expected.
Duchene - A Looks like he has turned the corner and touched greatness, now that he has the taste I expect him to be even better next year. Rounded into a #1C this year
Stastny - C- Played good defensively, good on faceoffs again, his 42.5% offensive zone starts hurt his offensive production some, but still has to be better in that area
McGinn - B Showed last year wasn't a fluke, but seemed a bit out of shape. If he comes into camp in shape next year I expect a 25g 20a sort of season
Mitchell - B- Produced way more than expected, but is an offensive black hole on scoring lines. Should be a great 4th line center next year.
O'Reilly - B+ Showed last year was no fluke, just wish the contract was done sooner so he would have had a full season. Should be a great #2C going forward.
Landeskog - B- Disappointing year overall for him, but I am willing to give a bit of a pass because of the concussion and the pressures of the captaincy.
McLeod - A I thought he was forever destined to be a 4th liner. Played very well as a 3rd liner, and wasn't insanely out of place on the Landy-ROR line (though I don't want to see that next year).
Hejduk - C- Was better than I thought he would be, but he is way over the hill now. I was disappointed that he was scratched so much down the stretch
Kobasew - B- Played pretty well overall, but is a 3rd/4th liner still
Jones - F Utter failure on his part. Needs to rebound next year or he might not be in the NHL after that.
Palushaj - C Good waiver pickup, but he will never really amount to anything but an injury replacement 13th forward
Olver - D He is a pest, but too small to do anything beyond that. Not enough skill to be a top 6 player. Numbers wise he has continued to go downhill (not that I expected much but more than 6 points in 32 games)
Bordeleau - A He is a goon that can skate and hold his own on the 4th line. He should be kept around.
Vincour - C In his two games with the Avs I can't say that I was impressed, but dominated in Lake Erie so I see that as kind of a wash.
Malone - C Played well in a few games, not so well in others.
Van Der Gulik - C+ Was actually pretty good in the games he played.
Downie - D 2 games and then injured is hard to say anything good about
Sgarbossa - C+ Showed NHL level skill and IQ while he was up. Shame he didn't get a better opportunity.

Defensemen:
Barrie - A- Has a ways to go defensively, but showed that he can handle top 4 minutes and contribute offensively.
Hejda - B Was solid all year and helped both Elliott and Barrie find their games at this level.
Hunwick - B+ I'll probably get railed for this, but he was actually really good considering he was being asked to do way, way too much. He should never, ever get 20+ minutes again, but if he comes back in a role where he gets 15 minutes... I think he can do really well
Zanon - D- Blocks shots... that is about it
Elliott - B+ Finally started to grasp how to play at the NHL level. Showed some more physicality the last 5-6 games as well. If he gets stronger this summer I think he can push Barrie for a top 4 role.
Johnson - D+ Played well defensively, and again saw glimpses of brilliance, but those were few and far between. Combine that with injuries and it was a very disappointing season from the guy the defense needs to rely on.
O'Brien - C Better than Zanon...
Wilson - D- If he would ever stop getting injured he would be a very solid 4/5... not sure if he will ever be really healthy though

Goalies:
Varlamov - C/C- At the start of the season he played incredibly well, but he seemed to start having mental lapses and both the Avs and his season fell apart. He needs to be more consistent.
JSG - B+ Second season in a row where he looked great as a backup.
Aittokallio - B Obviously a very small sample size, but he has enough talent to play in the NHL someday.

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Old
04-29-2013, 11:51 AM
  #14
AvsFan20
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Duchene [A+]

PAP [A]

McCleod [B-]

Bordeleau [C-]

McGinn [C-]

Kobasew [B-]

ROR [C]

Mitchell [C+]

Palushaj [C+]

Landy [C-]

Stastny [D+]

Hejduk [D+]

Olver [C-]

Jones [F]



Barrie [B+]

Hunwick [B-]

Elliot [C-]

Hejda [C+]

O'Brien [C-]

EJ [D+]

Zanon [F]



Jiggy [B]

Varly [C+]

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Old
04-29-2013, 11:59 AM
  #15
S E P H
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FORWARDS
Bordeleau [B] Did his job and added a bit of skill there.

Duchene [A-] Improved in all aspects of the game, but could improve shooting accuracy and more defensive positioning.

Hejduk [D-] Injury filled where he again looks out of it. Nothing wrong or sad about it, just his time to retire.

Jones [F] Murphy's Law.

Kobasew [C+] Doesn't have talent, but his compete level and wanting the puck makes him such an underrated bottom 6 player.

Landeskog [D+] Learning year, enough said.

McLeod [B] Another solid year from McLeod while a few people always wanting to trade him for some reason.

McGinn [C+] Started the season off with some bad luck, but got continually worst as the season went along. Lucky enough he a had a strong second half.

Mitchell [B-] Solid player with a solid season who is played too many minutes in the second half.

Olver [D] Disappointing year from Mark who I thought could solidify as a 3rd line player.

O'Reilly [B] Offensively he was great, but I don't think he was on his defensive level compared to last year. That could be due missing 90% of the season.

Palushaj [C-] Solid player in case of injuries, but not a top 6 player regularly.

Parenteau [A] Probably the best player overall this season, plus he has an underrated defensive game and compete level.

Stastny [C] Had good compete level and overall a solid season compared to his last two, but offensive numbers are still not "there" and is it time to move on?

DEFENSE
Barrie [B+] Loved what I saw.

Elliott [B-] HUGE improvement compared to last season.

Hejda [B-] Was either good or bad in the games, but was much better compared to last season.

Hunwick [C-] Didn't produce much, didn't cost goals much.

Johnson [D] Meh.

O'Brien [C] Looked better than last year, but still has those dumbass penalties and turnovers.

Zanon [D-] Played too many top line minutes and didn't look good. I still think with 14 minutes a game he would be solid.

GOALER
Varlamov [C] Can't blame him for the overall season, but he seriously needs to work on his rebound control.

Giguere [B-] Slower than World War I tank reloading.

Aittokallio [A++++++++] Beast beyond belief.

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Old
04-29-2013, 01:08 PM
  #16
Freudian
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Forwards:

Bordeleau: B
Excellent year for him. He's obviously very limited as a player but his relentless heavy hitting made the other team change the way they play when he's on the ice. Great fighter. Weak defensively but decent enough on the cycle in the offensive zone.

Duchene: A-
Great bounce back year. He's one of the more dynamic offensive players in the league. Improving defensively but his line still traded a lot of chances this year.

Hejduk: C-
Rough year in a role that doesn't fit him. He's defensively responsible but the offense isn't there anymore. He lack that timing that enables him to get shots and passes off like he used to.

David Jones: F
Terrible year for him. Created almost no offense and didn't deserve to. Pucks kept bouncing off his stick in all three zones. The effort was there at times but he needs to wake up.

Kobasew: B
Worked hard shift in and shift out and played a very effective game in a limited role. Played well on the PK and was one of the better fourth liners I saw league wide.

Landeskog: C-
The concussion obviously disrupted his season but it looked like something was nagging him all year long. Didn't shoot like he used to, sometimes took a lot off his hits and kept losing the puck in a way he shouldn't. At the same time he was fantastic on the PK and always plays a very thorough game. Him and O'Reilly had a few dominant games down the stretch.

Malone: C
Didn't stand out offensively or defensively, which is a good thing. I like his effort and physicality.

McGinn: C
I like his hitting and he has a scorer's touch and feel for the game. He could have had five more goals and still be unlucky in front of goal. At the same time his defense is weak. He's one of the contributors that the Duchene line leaked goals against. He was a poor fit there.

McLeod: B
Good year for him. Kept things simple and never took a shift off. Perhaps having Bordeleau there relaxes him a bit and he can be more of a grinder than a police. He was surprisingly useful with Landeskog and O'Reilly late in the season but he's not a scoring line guy in the long run.

Mitchell: C-
Was good the first half when he played a more limited role. When playing in a bigger role, his flaws were more obvious. Not particularly good with the puck other than shooting. Great on the backcheck and decent, but not great, defensively.

O'Reilly: B-
Inconsistent all year long, but improved as the season went. Good on the PK and I thought he did a great job on the PP. Moved the puck well and wasn't afraid to shoot. Him getting stronger enables him to protect the puck in a very impressive way. He's like poor man's Jagr with the back against an opponent. He's a keeper. He'll be a very good player for a very long time.

Olver: D
Ineffective both offensively and defensively. I don't think he really does anything well enough for the NHL, even if he is very entertaining to watch when he annoys the opposition.

Palushaj: C-
Good effort but not a good player. He's probably gone after this year. Habs fans were spot on when they said he has to be on a scoring line but isn't good enough to play on a scoring line.

Parenteau: A-
Great with the puck and worked fantastically well with Duchene. Lethal on the PP. He's a bit inconsistent defensively and on the backcheck but who's perfect?

Stastny: B-
Playing a shutdown role, facing the toughest opposition and playing with average wingers and still end up on a 50 point pace? That's very impressive. I can't imagine this is the role he wants to play or the players he wants to play with so I think this season was the beginning of the end for him in Denver. Worked well with McGinn though. McGinn looked much more well rounded playing with a guy that has the defensive conscience Stastny has.


Defensemen:

Barrie: B
Excellent rookie year. Confident and surprisingly good defensively, fantastic on puck retrieval and transition. Still a bit wild offensively in his pinching and shooting but very encouraging year. He'll be a very good player.

Elliott: C
I liked how much more like a NHL defender he looked this year compared to last. He looked stronger, better positionally and more confident in his own zone. At the same time he was a bit inconsistent offensively. You can tell he struggled a bit putting up points in the AHL because he didn't have the confidence to go all-in when he came up. But as the season passed and him playing well with Hejda, the offense started coming.

Hejda: C
Quiet season where he had to take on a lot of responsibility defensively and on the PK. He made his partners look good more often than not.

Hunwick: B
Valiant effort in a role that's several sizes too big for him. He played as well as he possibly can. Still not very good offensively and not the biggest guy defensively. If he get to play as a #5-6, he'll be a good player for us. While +/- obviously is very limited as a stat, being +4 playing 21+ minutes a night on a team with terrible defense and bad goaltending isn't bad.

Johnson: C
Average year for him. Good defensively. Uses his size well and is excellent at puck retrieval. Wasn't as passive as many of the other defenders. Meanwhile, he needs to provide more offense. His lack of ability to get shots through is worrying and something he and the coaching staff needs to adjust. Completely useless on the PP this year. Not used properly and doing pretty much nothing to earn ice time on the PP.

O'Brien: C+
I thought he played well for the most part but his decision making is still questionable. He had fewer mad rushes with the puck and more smart ones. Still is undisciplined when it comes to penalties and Sacco didn't trust him this year. I think this dog is too old to learn to sit, which is a shame. He's got excellent tools but doesn't seem to have the drive to excel.

OByrne: D-
By far the worst year he had as an Av. Passive, slow and terrible with the puck. When the Avs needed him the most, he failed to perform.

Wilson: B
Good in what was a lost year for him. Well rounded and Avs lacked his aggression on the back end.

Zanon: D
Poor player and a poor fit on the team. I have no idea what the front office expected to happen when they signed him. Perhaps he'll look better if he plays third pairing minutes against third line opponents. Looked better when he played with Barrie since he wasn't relied on to retrieve and move the puck as much.


Goalies:

Giguere: C
Generally good but he's not the player he used to be. He's a bit slower but still solid positionally. We do need his veteran presence and leadership. Good on him for calling the team out. It'll only work once, but he played the card well.

Varlamov: C-
Good at the start but faded big time. He's still learning to play a lot of games and has all the talent in the world. I think he'll be fine when Avs protect him better. I'm not sure he'll ever be a 65-70 game starter, but he'll be a starter.


Last edited by Freudian: 04-29-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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Old
04-29-2013, 02:30 PM
  #17
ABasin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Defensemen:

Barrie: B
Excellent rookie year. Confident and surprisingly good defensively, fantastic on puck retrieval and transition. Still a bit wild offensively in his pinching and shooting but very encouraging year. He'll be a very good player.

Elliott: C
I liked how much more like a NHL defender he looked this year compared to last. He looked stronger, better positionally and more confident in his own zone. At the same time he was a bit inconsistent offensively. You can tell he struggled a bit putting up points in the AHL because he didn't have the confidence to go all-in when he came up. But as the season passed and him playing well with Hejda, the offense started coming.

Hejda: C
Quiet season where he had to take on a lot of responsibility defensively and on the PK. He made his partners look good more often than not.

Hunwick: B
Valiant effort in a role that's several sizes too big for him. He played as well as he possibly can. Still not very good offensively and not the biggest guy defensively. If he get to play as a #5-6, he'll be a good player for us. While +/- obviously is very limited as a stat, being +4 playing 21+ minutes a night on a team with terrible defense and bad goaltending isn't bad.

Johnson: C
Average year for him. Good defensively. Uses his size well and is excellent at puck retrieval. Wasn't as passive as many of the other defenders. Meanwhile, he needs to provide more offense. His lack of ability to get shots through is worrying and something he and the coaching staff needs to adjust. Completely useless on the PP this year. Not used properly and doing pretty much nothing to earn ice time on the PP.

O'Brien: C+
I thought he played well for the most part but his decision making is still questionable. He had fewer mad rushes with the puck and more smart ones. Still is undisciplined when it comes to penalties and Sacco didn't trust him this year. I think this dog is too old to learn to sit, which is a shame. He's got excellent tools but doesn't seem to have the drive to excel.

OByrne: D-
By far the worst year he had as an Av. Passive, slow and terrible with the puck. When the Avs needed him the most, he failed to perform.

Wilson: B
Good in what was a lost year for him. Well rounded and Avs lacked his aggression on the back end.

Zanon: D
Poor player and a poor fit on the team. I have no idea what the front office expected to happen when they signed him. Perhaps he'll look better if he plays third pairing minutes against third line opponents. Looked better when he played with Barrie since he wasn't relied on to retrieve and move the puck as much.
One of the common results of these "grading" things (and I'm guilty of this also - this is not really meant as a particular criticism of yours), is that when we're done and average out the individual scores, we give a team grade higher than is warranted. For example, if you take the average of the 7 semi-regular defensemen on your list (taking Wilson out), it averages out to a C/C+. With Wilson in there, it's a solid C+. Above average.

And your goaltenders are a C/C-.

Do you feel the defensemen collectively played at an above average C+ level, and/or better than the goaltenders?

I've done this many times myself. Kind of weird how I/we criticize the crap out of a team's collective position, then inadvertently (perhaps) give it a decent grade.

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04-29-2013, 02:48 PM
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One of the common results of these "grading" things (and I'm guilty of this also - this is not really meant as a particular criticism of yours), is that when we're done and average out the individual scores, we give a team grade higher than is warranted. For example, if you take the average of the 7 semi-regular defensemen on your list (taking Wilson out), it averages out to a C/C+. With Wilson in there, it's a solid C+. Above average.

And your goaltenders are a C/C-.

Do you feel the defensemen collectively played at an above average C+ level, and/or better than the goaltenders?

I've done this many times myself. Kind of weird how I/we criticize the crap out of a team's collective position, then inadvertently (perhaps) give it a decent grade.
But wouldn't you say that's due to the fact that when we assess a grade for players half of us use the above/below expectations for that individual player instead of expectations for that position.

I admit...in my book Bordy gets an A (in addition to being what I feel is the best fighter in the league, he can actually skate well and hits HARD and mostly clean.) I overlook the fact that he's not necessarily good or even average in his own zone though and for a 4th liner, he should be better defensively (because I'm not keen on squandering offensive starts with him.)

Huncules is another example...I'd give him a high B not because I believe that he is better than half the other 1st pairing dmen in the league but because I feel he played pretty significantly above what I felt were expectations for his play.

Very subjective stuff ,which is probably why some love advanced stats...it attempts to remove subjectivity and emotion and replace them with cold, cruel scientific facts. I just don't believe stats necessarily work well in a blood-sport like hockey. I think it's better suited to games like baseball. But that's just me.

Also averaging out the individual averages of player grades shouldn't really give you a good team grade. For example, a guy like Bordy getting an A does not expunge the F David Jones got or the I that Downie got for not being healthy. The fact is Bordy did very well at his role but his role does not carry quite the same impact on the overall team record as two top 6 forwards.

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04-29-2013, 02:51 PM
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One of the common results of these "grading" things (and I'm guilty of this also - this is not really meant as a particular criticism of yours), is that when we're done and average out the individual scores, we give a team grade higher than is warranted. For example, if you take the average of the 7 semi-regular defensemen on your list (taking Wilson out), it averages out to a C/C+. With Wilson in there, it's a solid C+. Above average.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really consider a C to be "average." I'm used to B being an average (at least in terms of median and mode), C being the bare minimum of competency, D as trying and failing, and F as giving zero ****s. Also, I think a common complaint is that the poor quality of coaching we received resulted in the team being worse than the sum of our parts, in which case having the average player grade higher than our team grade is still consistent.

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04-29-2013, 02:56 PM
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i would say EJ was C or C-. Barrie was a B- for me, the rest are about spot on.
PA was a big time pick up, he shouldn't have been the only big one but he scored the most points of any FA pick up this off season.

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04-29-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
But wouldn't you say that's due to the fact that when we assess a grade for players half of us use the above/below expectations for that individual player instead of expectations for that position.

I admit...in my book Bordy gets an A (in addition to being what I feel is the best fighter in the league, he can actually skate well and hits HARD and mostly clean.) I overlook the fact that he's not necessarily good or even average in his own zone though and for a 4th liner, he should be better defensively (because I'm not keen on squandering offensive starts with him.)

Huncules is another example...I'd give him a high B not because I believe that he is better than half the other 1st pairing dmen in the league but because I feel he played pretty significantly above what I felt were expectations for his play.

Very subjective stuff ,
Yeah, that's the other part. Do we grade based upon expectations, or just raw performance?

A 15 goal year for Duchene would warrant a much different grade than a 15 goal year for Bordeleau, you know?

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04-29-2013, 03:14 PM
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't really consider a C to be "average." I'm used to B being an average (at least in terms of median and mode), C being the bare minimum of competency, D as trying and failing, and F as giving zero ****s.
Hmm. I always thought of C as average. Perhaps we should caveat our grading system at the beginning of our posts.

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04-29-2013, 03:49 PM
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Yeah, that's the other part. Do we grade based upon expectations, or just raw performance?

A 15 goal year for Duchene would warrant a much different grade than a 15 goal year for Bordeleau, you know?
Exactly...When we give Duchene a grade are we assessing his performance against what we think it should be or are we measuring him against other #1 centers around the league (Crosby/Malkin, Datsyuk, Getzlaf, Richards, Sedin, Staal, Stamkos, Toews, etc....) Because while he'd get an A from me based on playing above my expectations of him, I'm not sure he really is that far above the average for a #1 center in the NHL...probably more like a B.

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04-29-2013, 04:05 PM
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One of the common results of these "grading" things (and I'm guilty of this also - this is not really meant as a particular criticism of yours), is that when we're done and average out the individual scores, we give a team grade higher than is warranted. For example, if you take the average of the 7 semi-regular defensemen on your list (taking Wilson out), it averages out to a C/C+. With Wilson in there, it's a solid C+. Above average.

And your goaltenders are a C/C-.

Do you feel the defensemen collectively played at an above average C+ level, and/or better than the goaltenders?

I've done this many times myself. Kind of weird how I/we criticize the crap out of a team's collective position, then inadvertently (perhaps) give it a decent grade.
It's in relation to their ability/my expectation. It's a poorly assembled defense where some of the worst ones (Hunwick, O'Brien) played better than I would expect from them.

I have a big problem with how defense looked coming in. Too many similar defenders and not enough quality. If anything Avs fluked into Barrie and Elliott playing a bigger role than they should.

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04-29-2013, 04:58 PM
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I have a big problem with how defense looked coming in. Too many similar defenders and not enough quality.
I agree completely. This offseason's signing of defensemen was really quite curious. I mean, I get locking up Wilson for 3 years, as he's still relatively young, relatively good, and at the tail end of his development. Solid 3rd pairing guy, not great but not embarrassing on the 2nd pairing. Then the re-pony up all *3* of O'Brien/Hunwick/Zanon for multiple years? It would have been poor asset management to sign all three of those guys to 1 year deals, all to multi-year deals?

It's almost like the Avs were terrified into immobility of the upcoming CBA or something. It makes no sense.

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