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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (part 2)

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Old
04-29-2013, 04:32 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Of course it does. The guy's a great goalie, his own fanbase may not be able to see it but others can. Every goalie goes through rough patches but Price for the most part has been immune to this. He's been rock solid for a couple of years now.

Yeah, his slump wrecked any chance at winning (Bryz would've won anyway) but it doesn't take away from the fact that folks saw this season as being strong.

Dismiss it if you wish but goaltending stats aren't the same as point getters. One or two bad games can make you look a lot worse than you are. I'm fine going in with Price against any goalie in the league. He'll lead a team to a cup someday, I just hope it's us.
I'm not dismissing it, and although they did say it at the time. I never shared their opinion. Most analysts from the Ontario networks like to downplay the habs as a team and pin any success we've had on goaltending. We simply can't just be a good team. No matter how you slice it, goalies have bad games, his were bad enough to lower his SV % to terrible levels.

Price has been anything but immune to poor streaks. He's been very good most of the time, but that's the one criticism I have of the guy, he tends to get too hard on himself and it leads to occasional prolonged funks.

I am also fine going in against any team with Price. Never suggested otherwise.

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04-29-2013, 05:45 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post

It's nothing new though, as someone on twitter pointed out, Habs fans have never been rational regarding goaltending. Roy was under fire after two SCFs, a Cup and 3 Vezinas. And before anyone gets their panties into a bunch, I am not, I repeat, not comparing Price to Roy.
This is a stupid comparison because in a fan base as big as the habs you will always find lunatics like those who questioned Roy after he had proven himself. Like those who questioned Subban last summer. To just bring this comparison up make it seem as if anyone who doesn't think Price is already the best goalie to be in the same boat as those lunatics. I resent this comparison.

Now I realize that Price is 25 years old and for a goalie his age he has been better than almost everyone. But he has not arrived yet. Ultimately, my problem isn't with Price, it's with everyone who constantly systematically overrates him and goes crazy condescending whenever he has a good game. I suspect most who are under suspicion of being Price bashers are in the same boat.

I think Price would be a much better goalie if he hadn't been overrated non-stop by nearly everyone and rushed at every step. If the habs had put him in the same situation as Rask has been put in.

Regardless, now he has a perfect situation and he's hitting his prime. He has the experience, the good team, the submissive backup, the big contract long term... there are no excuses left for a bad performances. All I want is for him not to give up bad goals at key times and give life back to the other team. I want him to be solid and put away the other team. If the habs are up 3-1 in the games and he is weak in game 5 and 6 and lets them back in and then posts a SO in game 7 that will be bad. It will tire our players needlessly and I will be annoyed. I want Price to win the games we should win, to win the games where we outplay opponents. He's paid 6.5M/year to do it, our highest paid player. He hasn't been our best player this season. I expect better in the playoffs. If that's unreasonable then I must be crazy.

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Of course it does. The guy's a great goalie, his own fanbase may not be able to see it but others can. Every goalie goes through rough patches but Price for the most part has been immune to this. He's been rock solid for a couple of years now.

Yeah, his slump wrecked any chance at winning (Bryz would've won anyway) but it doesn't take away from the fact that folks saw this season as being strong.

Dismiss it if you wish but goaltending stats aren't the same as point getters. One or two bad games can make you look a lot worse than you are. I'm fine going in with Price against any goalie in the league. He'll lead a team to a cup someday, I just hope it's us.
Mmmmm... I can see why you made that mistake.


Last edited by E = CH²: 04-29-2013 at 05:54 PM.
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Old
04-29-2013, 05:51 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I'm not dismissing it, and although they did say it at the time. I never shared their opinion. Most analysts from the Ontario networks like to downplay the habs as a team and pin any success we've had on goaltending. We simply can't just be a good team. No matter how you slice it, goalies have bad games, his were bad enough to lower his SV % to terrible levels.

Price has been anything but immune to poor streaks. He's been very good most of the time, but that's the one criticism I have of the guy, he tends to get too hard on himself and it leads to occasional prolonged funks.

I am also fine going in against any team with Price. Never suggested otherwise.
I actually like this assessment. Price does seem to get too hard on himself. If the reports are true that Price hates to get scored on even in practices, than he could very well get down on himself easily. Which does, speaking from experience, prolong slumps rather than bust them.

Sometimes you've gotta chalk a goal up to being something that wasn't your fault. Focus on the ones you could've stopped, make the necessary adjustment and move on.

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04-29-2013, 06:34 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
This is a stupid comparison because in a fan base as big as the habs you will always find lunatics like those who questioned Roy after he had proven himself. Like those who questioned Subban last summer. To just bring this comparison up make it seem as if anyone who doesn't think Price is already the best goalie to be in the same boat as those lunatics. I resent this comparison.
Maybe that's how you interpret it, but it was just an example on how harsh the fan base in Montreal can be towards goalies. They always have been. Down boy, down. It was clearly not a comparison between the two.

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04-29-2013, 07:40 PM
  #930
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04-29-2013, 08:08 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by CP31 View Post
Jamie McLennan: "Two weeks ago he was is the vezina conversation."
I don't understand where all this crap is coming from I really really don't.

I suspect a whole bunch of people making comments aren't actually watching the games other than the few games they catch here and there. Don't tell me McLennan has seen every habs games this year.

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04-29-2013, 08:41 PM
  #932
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Mmmmm... I can see why you made that mistake.
Bryz... Bob... same thing.

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04-29-2013, 09:55 PM
  #933
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I don't suppose Budaj will play in the playoffs. Too bad because I think the guy is very calm and doesn't flop around like CP does, which makes me nervous watching.
I also think Budaj is better than CP in shootouts, but since there are no shootouts in playoff hockey, that point is moot.

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04-29-2013, 10:00 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
I don't suppose Budaj will play in the playoffs. Too bad because I think the guy is very calm and doesn't flop around like CP does, which makes me nervous watching.
I also think Budaj is better than CP in shootouts, but since there are no shootouts in playoff hockey, that point is moot.
What? People here complain CP is TOO calm... Do you even watch him and not just look at stats?

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04-29-2013, 10:03 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I don't understand where all this crap is coming from I really really don't.

I suspect a whole bunch of people making comments aren't actually watching the games other than the few games they catch here and there. Don't tell me McLennan has seen every habs games this year.
The Price story is a phenomenon. I'm not how the hype has gone that high. I mean, he is a very good goalie, and has as much potential as any other keeper. But at this point, he still hasn't proven a whole lot. We know he can be a game changer keeper, and can hold the fort for full seasons successfully, as well as play big in the POs, but he still hasn't won anything and has been inconsistent.
Yet, he's build a reputation throughout the league that he's proven enough to be considered one of the best in the NHL.

I believe that's where the comments come from. Price has a reputation (maybe unwarranted according to some), and that's why people say he was in Vezina talks despite not really showing much this year.

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Old
04-29-2013, 10:12 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by TennisMenace View Post
I don't suppose Budaj will play in the playoffs. Too bad because I think the guy is very calm and doesn't flop around like CP does, which makes me nervous watching.
I also think Budaj is better than CP in shootouts, but since there are no shootouts in playoff hockey, that point is moot.
Budaj and Price practically have the same sv%, yet one guy seemed to have had a career year (starting in only 11 games), while the other was rather mediocre..

Budaj has failed time and time again to secure a #1 spot, he's settled into a back up role here in Mtl, has only 4 games of PO experience, 0 victories, and yet you have more confidence in him than Price??

Sometimes I really think Habs fans are a lost case..

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04-29-2013, 10:14 PM
  #937
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I have confidence in Price; yes he had a slump near the end of the season but everyone goes through rough patches. He'll be fine in the playoffs.

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04-29-2013, 10:14 PM
  #938
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Price's last playoff performance was, lets be honest, pretty freaking amazing. I think if he can put up a similar performance or even better, considering he has two more years of experience, we should be in a good position.

I have full confidence in price, and I'm confident he'll raise his performance when it counts.. The guy is a game changer, he's a winner and I think well see some of that this post season.

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04-29-2013, 10:17 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
The Price story is a phenomenon. I'm not how the hype has gone that high. I mean, he is a very good goalie, and has as much potential as any other keeper. But at this point, he still hasn't proven a whole lot. We know he can be a game changer keeper, and can hold the fort for full seasons successfully, as well as play big in the POs, but he still hasn't won anything and has been inconsistent.
Yet, he's build a reputation throughout the league that he's proven enough to be considered one of the best in the NHL.

I believe that's where the comments come from. Price has a reputation (maybe unwarranted according to some), and that's why people say he was in Vezina talks despite not really showing much this year.
Because the ''best goalie in the league'' has one Vezina and nothing else. The second best has nothing and missed the playoffs... The others are interchangable year in and year out. (See Quick, Bobrovski, Luongo, Schneider, Price, Lehtonen.)

Goes to show that goaltending is close. You get yourself a starter and you ride him until he can't play anymore.

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04-29-2013, 11:00 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I don't understand where all this crap is coming from I really really don't.

I suspect a whole bunch of people making comments aren't actually watching the games other than the few games they catch here and there. Don't tell me McLennan has seen every habs games this year.
I nearly choked on my glass of milk when I saw that.

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Old
04-29-2013, 11:10 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by MTLSandman View Post
Price's last playoff performance was, lets be honest, pretty freaking amazing. I think if he can put up a similar performance or even better, considering he has two more years of experience, we should be in a good position.

I have full confidence in price, and I'm confident he'll raise his performance when it counts.. The guy is a game changer, he's a winner and I think well see some of that this post season.

Let me remember... In game seven. How many goals did he let in ? How many lead did he blew in that game ?

We have a different definition of amazing...

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Old
04-30-2013, 04:13 AM
  #942
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I actually like this assessment. Price does seem to get too hard on himself. If the reports are true that Price hates to get scored on even in practices, than he could very well get down on himself easily. Which does, speaking from experience, prolong slumps rather than bust them.

Sometimes you've gotta chalk a goal up to being something that wasn't your fault. Focus on the ones you could've stopped, make the necessary adjustment and move on.
Agreed.

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04-30-2013, 04:32 AM
  #943
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Geezzzzzzz, Never seen one of our players cause so much drama!
What is it with Price that has so many people finding excuses for him?
Guess I wasn't around when they passed the Kool-aid....
Anyways......this season, the habs accomplished something they did not do in 15 seasons before : give less than 27 shots on goals /game. So either Price, or Budaj were most of the time a non factor on the results of the games. Any average goalie in the league would have put up great numbers if he would have faced only 26 shots per game.( that didn't even happen!)

So I'm hoping the team keeps on sticking with the system implemented by coach Therrien and keeps puck possession, plays a great D system and that our goalies keep being non factors in the games.
If Price can be just 'average' like he has been before april, we'll be allright.

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04-30-2013, 06:42 AM
  #944
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Geezzzzzzz, Never seen one of our players cause so much drama!
What is it with Price that has so many people finding excuses for him?
Guess I wasn't around when they passed the Kool-aid....
Anyways......this season, the habs accomplished something they did not do in 15 seasons before : give less than 27 shots on goals /game. So either Price, or Budaj were most of the time a non factor on the results of the games. Any average goalie in the league would have put up great numbers if he would have faced only 26 shots per game.( that didn't even happen!)

So I'm hoping the team keeps on sticking with the system implemented by coach Therrien and keeps puck possession, plays a great D system and that our goalies keep being non factors in the games.
If Price can be just 'average' like he has been before april, we'll be allright.
Holy crap watch the games more closely there bud. Our system does not help goalie numbers at all.

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Old
04-30-2013, 06:57 AM
  #945
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Holy crap watch the games more closely there bud. Our system does not help goalie numbers at all.
Exactly my point.....people trying to find excuses.

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Old
04-30-2013, 08:21 AM
  #946
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So I haven't posted on here in a while. I'm a lurker, what can I say. But I need to put in my two cents about this team and Carey.

I watched the '05 draft and didn't hear much about anyone but Sid the Kid (the next Gretzky). So when the Habs drafted a goalie at 5th overall, I was just not sure what to think. I had thought Theodore would be okay (I mean he was only 4 years removed from a Hart and Vezina Trophy season, but ok.) but maybe I wasn't seeing something that others in CH Management were seeing (I mean I was only 14 at the time).

What really impressed me and showed me why Carey should have been taken at 5th overall in that draft was what happened in 2007.

I'm sure a lot of you remember the World Juniors that year. Semis against the Americans (SO where Toews scored like 3 goals in a row, etc.), winning the Gold that year. I was beginning to see what all the hype was really about. Then it continued. Carey went back to Tri-City and even though they didn't make the POs that year I believe, he won the CHL Goalie of the Year Award. And still it continued. He gets called up to the Bulldogs for their AHL Playoff run, backstops them to an AHL Calder Cup and he's given the Jack A. Butterfield Trophy as the AHL Playoffs MVP.

This is where I began to get the feeling that this guy is the real deal.

Next year, he makes le CH. His numbers aren't that great but he (and Huet until the deadline I think) lead them to their 1st NE division title in god knows how long, a 1st place seeding in the Eastern Conference. We beat Boston in 7 (which should have taken 5 or 6) but end up losing to Philly (Umberger that Habs Killer).

Next couple seasons were bad and terrible for Carey.

The Price vs. Halak situation. I was very skeptical in Price being able to be the #1 for the Habs. But somewhere, I had this feeling that the last couple years weren't the true Carey Price and that maybe, just maybe the hype that surrounded him would come true.

Lo behold, the 2010-11 season comes and goes, he puts up great numbers. Backstops the team to another PO appearance, only to be eliminated by Boston, in Boston, in Game 7, in OT. What more did you expect out of that team anyways (the Mortician, my god did we have a terrible system, IMO)?

Now I'm hearing a lot of people talking of numbers and stuff, but here's a thought. Does anyone know what Carey's numbers were like after the first 5 weeks of this season? I remember them being really good because my brother, a very knowledgeable hockey person, said to me "He could win the Vezina if he keeps playing this way". So with that said, he has two weeks of sub-par performance and you don't think he's an elite goaltender?

Seriously people, before you post think hard about what you're saying because I keep reading the same stupid crap about Carey that sometimes makes me laugh, sometimes makes me sad and sometimes makes me mad.

He's gonna put those two weeks behind him, show all you boo birds the talent that he is, and backstop our team to the 2nd round (yes I love saying the word backstop). Should be a great series with OTT, not easy by any means, but very much winnable.

That's the end of my rant.

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04-30-2013, 09:19 AM
  #947
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So I haven't posted on here in a while. I'm a lurker, what can I say. But I need to put in my two cents about this team and Carey.

I watched the '05 draft and didn't hear much about anyone but Sid the Kid (the next Gretzky). So when the Habs drafted a goalie at 5th overall, I was just not sure what to think. I had thought Theodore would be okay (I mean he was only 4 years removed from a Hart and Vezina Trophy season, but ok.) but maybe I wasn't seeing something that others in CH Management were seeing (I mean I was only 14 at the time).

What really impressed me and showed me why Carey should have been taken at 5th overall in that draft was what happened in 2007.

I'm sure a lot of you remember the World Juniors that year. Semis against the Americans (SO where Toews scored like 3 goals in a row, etc.), winning the Gold that year. I was beginning to see what all the hype was really about. Then it continued. Carey went back to Tri-City and even though they didn't make the POs that year I believe, he won the CHL Goalie of the Year Award. And still it continued. He gets called up to the Bulldogs for their AHL Playoff run, backstops them to an AHL Calder Cup and he's given the Jack A. Butterfield Trophy as the AHL Playoffs MVP.

This is where I began to get the feeling that this guy is the real deal.

Next year, he makes le CH. His numbers aren't that great but he (and Huet until the deadline I think) lead them to their 1st NE division title in god knows how long, a 1st place seeding in the Eastern Conference. We beat Boston in 7 (which should have taken 5 or 6) but end up losing to Philly (Umberger that Habs Killer).

Next couple seasons were bad and terrible for Carey.

The Price vs. Halak situation. I was very skeptical in Price being able to be the #1 for the Habs. But somewhere, I had this feeling that the last couple years weren't the true Carey Price and that maybe, just maybe the hype that surrounded him would come true.

Lo behold, the 2010-11 season comes and goes, he puts up great numbers. Backstops the team to another PO appearance, only to be eliminated by Boston, in Boston, in Game 7, in OT. What more did you expect out of that team anyways (the Mortician, my god did we have a terrible system, IMO)?

Now I'm hearing a lot of people talking of numbers and stuff, but here's a thought. Does anyone know what Carey's numbers were like after the first 5 weeks of this season? I remember them being really good because my brother, a very knowledgeable hockey person, said to me "He could win the Vezina if he keeps playing this way". So with that said, he has two weeks of sub-par performance and you don't think he's an elite goaltender?

Seriously people, before you post think hard about what you're saying because I keep reading the same stupid crap about Carey that sometimes makes me laugh, sometimes makes me sad and sometimes makes me mad.

He's gonna put those two weeks behind him, show all you boo birds the talent that he is, and backstop our team to the 2nd round (yes I love saying the word backstop). Should be a great series with OTT, not easy by any means, but very much winnable.

That's the end of my rant.
Like I said, goaltending stats aren't the same as scoring totals... they are based on average and are not cumulative. So a goalie can play great all year and then go into a bad couple of games and suddenly his save percentage can drop by ten points.

Some folks just seem to want to rip on him. They say - he's not good look at that save percentage - SEE! Doesn't work that way. Price was actually our best player in a huge portion of our games this year. But because the stats get skewed with his horrible stretch it looks like a terrible year.

No doubt he sucked the past couple of weeks but folks who are saying he's been bad this year don't know what they're talking about.

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04-30-2013, 09:29 AM
  #948
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Holy crap watch the games more closely there bud. Our system does not help goalie numbers at all.
Except for a few stinkers, the Habs have played a system that helps the goalies this year, mostly due to a lot of back pressure from the forwards coming back(using their speed) and forcing opponents to make bad passes or take low percentage shots.

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04-30-2013, 09:34 AM
  #949
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Like I said, goaltending stats aren't the same as scoring totals... they are based on average and are not cumulative. So a goalie can play great all year and then go into a bad couple of games and suddenly his save percentage can drop by ten points.

Some folks just seem to want to rip on him. They say - he's not good look at that save percentage - SEE! Doesn't work that way. Price was actually our best player in a huge portion of our games this year. But because the stats get skewed with his horrible stretch it looks like a terrible year.

No doubt he sucked the past couple of weeks but folks who are saying he's been bad this year don't know what they're talking about.
Best player in wins, worst player in losses, hence his stats being affected in the cumulative. Would rather walk into any given game with him between the pipes than most other goalies because of the potential, but the consistency we've all been looking forward to still isn't there. I'm not sure Price put together 3 games in a row that helped his SV% all season after the first 3 games. Every two or three games we see dips down into .8XX and .7XX SV% land. Put another way, Fleury had the 19th best SV% overall this year at 0.916. Carey posted worse numbers than that in 21 of 39 appearances (0.800 or below in 5/39 appearances). Put yet another way, Devan Dubnyk has a 0.921 SV% on the Oilers. How elite and/or consistent could Price really have been "overall" this year?

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04-30-2013, 09:40 AM
  #950
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Budaj and Price practically have the same sv%, yet one guy seemed to have had a career year (starting in only 11 games), while the other was rather mediocre..

Budaj has failed time and time again to secure a #1 spot, he's settled into a back up role here in Mtl, has only 4 games of PO experience, 0 victories, and yet you have more confidence in him than Price??

Sometimes I really think Habs fans are a lost case..
To be fair, Price never won a #1 spot either. He was given it every time.

I'd still rather have Price, but let's not kid ourselves.

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