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Old
09-14-2006, 09:21 PM
  #26
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I'll tell you a team that will manhandle the Rangers, THE ISLANDERS!!! Witt, Simon, Asham, Hunter, Harlvardson(6'6 behemoth who likes to hit from Sweden), Colliton(possibly the next Nystrom), and Ted Nolan who loves to play that gritty in face style game. I expect the Rangers to win the season series against the Isles, but its going to be a very physical punishing series for the Rags.

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09-14-2006, 09:33 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
I'll tell you a team that will manhandle the Rangers, THE ISLANDERS!!! Witt, Simon, Asham, Hunter, Harlvardson(6'6 behemoth who likes to hit from Sweden), Colliton(possibly the next Nystrom), and Ted Nolan who loves to play that gritty in face style game. I expect the Rangers to win the season series against the Isles, but its going to be a very physical punishing series for the Rags.
How will the Islanders "manhandle" the "Rags" (who had 22 more points than the Islanders last season if i recall correctly) if you are predicting the Rangers will beat the Islanders in the season series?

And i dont remember someone in this thread discussing what teams have more grit, this was a conversation about the Rangers team only, until you trolled over and ruined it.

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09-14-2006, 09:35 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
How will the Islanders "manhandle" the "Rags" (who had 22 more points than the Islanders last season if i recall correctly) if you are predicting the Rangers will beat the Islanders in the season series?
I don't get that either...plus if the isles role out any of those players (maybe with the exception of witt) againts out top two lines the rangers will score at will.

We are talking about guys that are slow and slower. Even with a turmoil filled offseason the Isles improved the team but the reasons they could beat the Rangers are not because of these scrubs...

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09-14-2006, 09:44 PM
  #29
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Yes the Islanders got "tougher" but keeping your head is what wins games and if the isles think they can just come in a play fight club, then they are in for a rude awakening when they take 32 minutes in minors and get beat 11-1. Its not 1979.

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09-15-2006, 05:16 AM
  #30
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I think we have a good balance of toughness overall.

You have Orr as the very good heavyweight, good chin and excellent power. You also have Hollweg who punishes people with huge body checks and started to win a few fights last year (previously he was very bad at fighting) so i expect him to do ok if he fights just middleweight guys. These guys should have 85% of our total fights.

Shanahan i predict to show the team how commited he is by getting into 3-4 scraps this year good fighter still even at his age. It also adds that element to our top 6, which wasnt there at all. Then you have Hall who hopefully gets more physical. Ortmeyer with alot of energy and hitting when he is back.

For defence i'm with edge, we could do with a mean stay at home defender who can drop them. A bit like Strudwick who can defend the team and play a semi regular shift most nights, (orr cannot yet)

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09-15-2006, 12:55 PM
  #31
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On paper I see improvements in the toughness area. I'm not trying to be out there with my opinion. I don't see us as a team that punishes other teams physically--at least not a lot. As others have suggested that part of the game can be somewhat overrated and I agree with that and at the same time I think we have some guys coming along who will be able to play and contribute physically. A guy like Hollweg can be a great forechecker and a hitting machine but he's not quite Adam Graves either. Physical guys have to be able to play too and that is my problem with Orr--at least so far. So in that respect it looks now like we have better prospects going into this season than we did going into last season. I'm cautiously optimistic. On paper though lots of things don't necessarily work out. If we go further into the playoffs but don't have as good a regular season that is progress but there's a lot of ways at looking at things and we need to keep up with the program we've started but at the same time the team basically will depend on Jagr and Lundqvist.

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09-15-2006, 01:03 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
I'll tell you a team that will manhandle the Rangers, THE ISLANDERS!!! Witt, Simon, Asham, Hunter, Harlvardson(6'6 behemoth who likes to hit from Sweden), Colliton(possibly the next Nystrom), and Ted Nolan who loves to play that gritty in face style game. I expect the Rangers to win the season series against the Isles, but its going to be a very physical punishing series for the Rags.
you should ask philly fans how they're large and imobile defense worked out for them last year.

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Old
09-15-2006, 01:50 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
I'll tell you a team that will manhandle the Rangers, THE ISLANDERS!!! Witt...
I can only imagine what kind of damage a man who EATS PUCKS can do to the frail, passive Rangers.




And your post is genius.

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Old
09-15-2006, 02:26 PM
  #34
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there is rumored to be more grit avaiable.

Outta L.A - there is both Avery or young Kanko. Only room for one. Could probably fetch Avery for Rachunek. Might get Kanko for Richter as L.A is weak in the defensive area since the injury to one of their better prospects Petoit.

Outta Nashville - Hartnell - no idea how much he would cost but he is young, he's a bull and he still has upside. Plays both wings and provides scoring on a 2nd or 3rd ine. He and Shanny on the wings would provide room to play Prucha at center and leave Jagr pay with Straka and Nylander.

Outta Edmonton - lots of bangers, need d-man, if we sign Leetch we possibly could give up Rozsival in a trade for Torres or Moreau.

The Rangers look very good this year with a lot of interesting prospects coming up. The cap situation is good and they addressed a lot of needs over the offseason. Jagr is only got a couple of years left so now would be a nice time to go for it.

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09-15-2006, 03:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
I'll tell you a team that will manhandle the Rangers, THE ISLANDERS!!! Witt, Simon, Asham, Hunter, Harlvardson(6'6 behemoth who likes to hit from Sweden), Colliton(possibly the next Nystrom), and Ted Nolan who loves to play that gritty in face style game. I expect the Rangers to win the season series against the Isles, but its going to be a very physical punishing series for the Rags.
Maybe, but they have to be able to catch the Rangers players first and this team is not going to be cake walk to contain, especially if some young talent takes steps forward.

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Old
09-15-2006, 03:47 PM
  #36
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Maybe, but they have to be able to catch the Rangers players first and this team is not going to be cake walk to contain, especially if some young talent takes steps forward.
I'm a bit curious, where is all this supposed speed the Ranfers have. I definitely didn't see it against the Devils who have one speedy defender in Rafalski. I don't see one Ranger that is a better skater than Jason Blake or Jeff Tambellini.You guys make itsound like the Isles have nothing but goons. I'd say guys like Zhitnik, Blake, Tambellini, Hilbert, Campoli, Asham, Hunter, Satan, Bates, York, & even Yashin can skate with or even better than the Rangers. Shanahan is as slow as they come, Malik, Rosival, Kasparaitis, Hossa, Ward, Ortmeyer, Betts, & Rachunek are far from being speed burners. I just don't see it. Last season the Rangers lived off Jagr & Lundquist, and once those two were contained it was a total melt down.

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09-15-2006, 04:03 PM
  #37
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Snow is going to "melt down" on the island this season along with his team. NY added better core players that will play tougher when needed. Old and slow is out.

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09-15-2006, 04:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
I'm a bit curious, where is all this supposed speed the Ranfers have. I definitely didn't see it against the Devils who have one speedy defender in Rafalski. I don't see one Ranger that is a better skater than Jason Blake or Jeff Tambellini.You guys make itsound like the Isles have nothing but goons. I'd say guys like Zhitnik, Blake, Tambellini, Hilbert, Campoli, Asham, Hunter, Satan, Bates, York, & even Yashin can skate with or even better than the Rangers. Shanahan is as slow as they come, Malik, Rosival, Kasparaitis, Hossa, Ward, Ortmeyer, Betts, & Rachunek are far from being speed burners. I just don't see it. Last season the Rangers lived off Jagr & Lundquist, and once those two were contained it was a total melt down.
You're right. The Islanders are a powerhouse. THey are the most physical and by far the fastest team in the East. Rangers need to fear the Islanders by a big margin. Just look at how well the Isles played last year. LOOOOOOK OUT.

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09-15-2006, 05:04 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
I'm a bit curious, where is all this supposed speed the Ranfers have. I definitely didn't see it against the Devils who have one speedy defender in Rafalski. I don't see one Ranger that is a better skater than Jason Blake or Jeff Tambellini.You guys make itsound like the Isles have nothing but goons. I'd say guys like Zhitnik, Blake, Tambellini, Hilbert, Campoli, Asham, Hunter, Satan, Bates, York, & even Yashin can skate with or even better than the Rangers. Shanahan is as slow as they come, Malik, Rosival, Kasparaitis, Hossa, Ward, Ortmeyer, Betts, & Rachunek are far from being speed burners. I just don't see it. Last season the Rangers lived off Jagr & Lundquist, and once those two were contained it was a total melt down.

Really--one might have seen your team going places the way they started off the summer. Certainly Wang isn't going to be on the ice but believe me he's given me a new appreciation of Mr. Dolan--but if I was an Islander fan I'd be really concerned about things other than the personnel you're eventually going to go with which is middling at best. There are guys on your team that I like as players though. Blake, Campoli, Asham, York for sure but the guys that should be leading them particularly Yashin have been missing in action for a while. DP has also to prove that he's worth even one year of the contract he just signed. Not saying he's not talented. I am saying he's not proven. Signing him to age 40--signing any player in the league for that matter to a 15 year contract is idiotic.

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09-15-2006, 05:13 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
You're right. The Islanders are a powerhouse. THey are the most physical and by far the fastest team in the East. Rangers need to fear the Islanders by a big margin. Just look at how well the Isles played last year. LOOOOOOK OUT.
I'm not saying the Isles will be a powerhouse, but I don't think they will be as bad as people are projecting them to be. Also, I don't see the Rangers being as good as people project them either. Jagr is nice, but after that, much like the Isles, there are too many question marks. Will Lundmark be as good as he was the beginning of the season or as bad as he was in the end, will Jagr be the same or go back to the old Jagr from the Caps, Shanahan is pretty old, Prucha won't come under the radar this season, & your defense is pretty darn soft. Also, last season the Rags highest scoring defenseman hit only 30 points, if they do that again, it may hurt more this season. Then you add the improvements of teams like Boston, Florida, & Montreal. I just don't see the Rangers being that runnaway playoff type team.

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09-15-2006, 05:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Really--one might have seen your team going places the way they started off the summer. Certainly Wang isn't going to be on the ice but believe me he's given me a new appreciation of Mr. Dolan--but if I was an Islander fan I'd be really concerned about things other than the personnel you're eventually going to go with which is middling at best. There are guys on your team that I like as players though. Blake, Campoli, Asham, York for sure but the guys that should be leading them particularly Yashin have been missing in action for a while. DP has also to prove that he's worth even one year of the contract he just signed. Not saying he's not talented. I am saying he's not proven. Signing him to age 40--signing any player in the league for that matter to a 15 year contract is idiotic.
If I was a Ranger fan, I don't think I can ever have any appreciation for Dolan, because once you guys miss the playoffs, that buffoon will start orering to trade for old named players. Don't forget before last season Dolan brought you guys 9 years of no playoffs. Wang on the other hand has owned the Isles 4 years & those 4 seasons he has gotten us 3 playoff appearances. Wang maybe an idiot, but its his money, his team, his ego, & all I can do is root for the jersey. Also, if it wasn;t for Wang, the Isles would be playing in either Portland or Seattle. As idiotic as the Dipietro & Yashin contracts maybe, I have to thank Wang for keeping my favorite & beloved Islanders on Long Island.

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09-15-2006, 07:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
I'm not saying the Isles will be a powerhouse, but I don't think they will be as bad as people are projecting them to be. Also, I don't see the Rangers being as good as people project them either. Jagr is nice, but after that, much like the Isles, there are too many question marks. Will Lundmark be as good as he was the beginning of the season or as bad as he was in the end, will Jagr be the same or go back to the old Jagr from the Caps, Shanahan is pretty old, Prucha won't come under the radar this season, & your defense is pretty darn soft. Also, last season the Rags highest scoring defenseman hit only 30 points, if they do that again, it may hurt more this season. Then you add the improvements of teams like Boston, Florida, & Montreal. I just don't see the Rangers being that runnaway playoff type team.

ummm...

i think i speak for all of us when i say thankfully, he's no longer an issue since he was dealt not even a week into last season.

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09-15-2006, 09:04 PM
  #43
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ummm...

i think i speak for all of us when i say thankfully, he's no longer an issue since he was dealt not even a week into last season.
Sorry, I meant Lundqvist.

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09-15-2006, 09:11 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
Outta Nashville - Hartnell - no idea how much he would cost but he is young, he's a bull and he still has upside. Plays both wings and provides scoring on a 2nd or 3rd ine. He and Shanny on the wings would provide room to play Prucha at center and leave Jagr pay with Straka and Nylander.
Man, I'd kill for a guy like Hartnell on the Rangers. I've always liked that guy's game. Nashville wants to move him?

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09-16-2006, 12:48 PM
  #45
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I think the speed of this team will be very deceptive. Not crazy fast but enough to take notice to. Cullen will bring a pace to the game that fans will love. Ward can fly now that his knee is ok. Straks is always a hustler. Pruchas got some zip. Even Betts shows a flash from time to time.

Rucchin was a stone out there and having Cullen go in for him is gonna be a huge change.

When youve got guys flying around it sets up well for the lurkers like Jagr, Shanahan and Nylander...

As far as grit goes, yes theyve added a bit more sandpaper to their game. But they have a unique type of tenaciousness (Prucha, Straka, Hollweg, Orts, Ward, Betts.... Hall remains to be seen) and guys like Jagr, Shanny and even Nylander intimidate in their own way by drawing attention and penalties which make up in some ways for grit.

What they can use is a Tikkanen/Barnaby like player who gets under the oppositions skin but can play. I am hoping that Hall (especially) or Ward can grow into that, or maybe even a Dubinsky or Dawes. They dont care how much punishment they take they just play and piss the other team off and that REALLY works for a team.

The addition of Ward will def help i love the north american flavor they put into this team. Kaspar will crunch, and hopefully Roszival or Rachunek will suprisingly grow a pair in response to that. Even Hossa is a big dude if he gets his act together.
Did you forget Kasper and what he did to Brashear last year?

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09-16-2006, 12:49 PM
  #46
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At 37, Shanahan can still kick the crap out of all comers. Okay, he might think twice about Georges LaRaque. If pissed off enough, Shanny could tear anyone apart.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/279

Shanny...Always entertaining and usually the winner.
Shanny is not a fighter...we didn't bring him to fight, we brought him to be a power forward

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09-16-2006, 12:52 PM
  #47
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So by grit do we mean toughness? So let's put it this way--don't expect a lot of fights and don't expect that this group will outhit the other team every night--maybe not even most nights. Can they take a battering and still be resilient?--if last year is an indication--yes. Are they tougher or more North American than last year?--again Yes. Are we a tough team though as far as physical play? Not really. Do we have to have the toughest team to win? No--it's just nice sometimes.
Ehh...I think we may actually hold our own and be able to outhit some teams this year. Hall, Hollweg, Orts if he's healthy, Orr, Kasper, both Wards all can provide some of that. I still don't see the big guy who will intimidate though

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09-16-2006, 12:54 PM
  #48
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I think that it boils down this:
1. On most nights, this team will have their hardhats on and work hard.
2. They are not afraid to get their noses dirty and dig in the corners.
3. They are more NA-oriented, but will not be the aggresors on most nights.
4. The hitting from the forwards groups will be improved from last year. They should be able to wear down the opposing defensemen much more than last year.
5. While they will not lead the league in fighting (or more accurately, they will drop the gloves amongst the least in the league), they will not back down and will have a few more incidents of gloves being dropped.

6. Here is the biggest problem. Despite the addittion of Ward, as a whole, the defensemen will not be the type to clear the crease of loose pucks and loose bodies. Especially given that once again, Malik & Rozsival will be woefully miscast as top-pairing defensemen. As such, they will have the most ice time. On the other pairs, Kasper & Ward can do the work of clearing the crease, but as Malik & Roszival will be on the ice the most, Henke will be on his own for most of the night.

This 6th one covers it all. We still may not be tough enough on defense. Toots is an all-around good player, but I just look at Malik-Roszival-Ozolinsh, and I just see no physicality at all, and I don't see how you can accept that from a defenseman. How can a defenseman be afraid or shy away from hitting?

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09-16-2006, 12:55 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Fights are a non-factor to me...Lovbe watching them, but they mean nothing these days...And yes, we are tougher then we were last season, but not in leaps and bounds....

As late last season and the POs showed, the game turned more physical and there was alot more hitting and grinding..And I know the Olymicc hangover hurt, but it was no coincedence that the Rangers were one of the worst teams in the league intthe last few weeks and in their meek PO outing..Guys like Shanny, Hall, Ward and Cullen should really help remedy this...Personally, I think we just need a little more (one player who hits---alot) with Orts being out.....
No, it isn't all about fights, but they still motivate the team, motivate the crowd, are great to watch, can get your team back in it, and most of all, can send a message to the other team

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09-16-2006, 12:58 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Taz View Post
I think we have a good balance of toughness overall.

You have Orr as the very good heavyweight, good chin and excellent power. You also have Hollweg who punishes people with huge body checks and started to win a few fights last year (previously he was very bad at fighting) so i expect him to do ok if he fights just middleweight guys. These guys should have 85% of our total fights.

Shanahan i predict to show the team how commited he is by getting into 3-4 scraps this year good fighter still even at his age. It also adds that element to our top 6, which wasnt there at all. Then you have Hall who hopefully gets more physical. Ortmeyer with alot of energy and hitting when he is back.

For defence i'm with edge, we could do with a mean stay at home defender who can drop them. A bit like Strudwick who can defend the team and play a semi regular shift most nights, (orr cannot yet)
Well said

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