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Safe to say you've tempered your expectations of Marcus Foligno?

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Old
04-30-2013, 01:02 AM
  #1
jBuds
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Safe to say you've tempered your expectations of Marcus Foligno?

I was guilty of it to an extent...regarding what was expected of Philleanough prior to this year.... Have you come back to reality? I didn't expect him to score near a point per game like he did in his small stint his rookie year. But I expected more than what we got.

Now, after he coasted through his sophomore campaign in what was one of the most complacent, nonchalant-appearing seasons in recent memory, are you accepting of the fact that he should be expected to "bounce back", to be a bottom 6 banger who may fill in on the second line in minimum spurts, not to eclipse 40 pts. in a season, and CERTAINLY not to be a player who is expected to contribute a high level of offense on the scoresheet?

Or in some sick, twisted way, do you expect him to bounce back and develop into a power forward by league definition?

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04-30-2013, 01:10 AM
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Always thought his upside was a 40-45 pt 3rd liner who could bang, bring a little bit of offense,'and provide leadership qualities. I never hopped on that runaway bandwagon last spring/summer when it came to Marcus.

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04-30-2013, 01:15 AM
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He needs to be on our bottom 6 ...otherwise...it says our top 6 isnt very talented.

He just needs to bring back his physicality and energy... I can live with 10-15 goals and 30-40 pts if he does that.

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04-30-2013, 01:15 AM
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I may be in the minority here. But I view last year as Foligno getting a handful of games to see what he brings to the Sabres. THIS year (to me) was his rookie (full) year with the Sabres. So my opinion or comments are based on that mindset.

Foligno had a poor year IMO, but nothing to get bent out of shape about. He's a rookie, i believe he'll improve next season, and the season after that. If he plays a solid north south game which includes banging and a strong forcheck it will benefit his career. Not to mention working on his defense. I can see him develop into a Steve Ott type without the mouth.

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04-30-2013, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
I was guilty of it to an extent...regarding what was expected of Philleanough prior to this year.... Have you come back to reality? I didn't expect him to score near a point per game like he did in his small stint his rookie year. But I expected more than what we got.

Now, after he coasted through his sophomore campaign in what was one of the most complacent, nonchalant-appearing seasons in recent memory, are you accepting of the fact that he should be expected to "bounce back", to be a bottom 6 banger who may fill in on the second line in minimum spurts, not to eclipse 40 pts. in a season, and CERTAINLY not to be a player who is expected to contribute a high level of offense on the scoresheet?

Or in some sick, twisted way, do you expect him to bounce back and develop into a power forward by league definition?
He has played a grand total of about 60 games.....part of that time has been playin on the 4th line which effects scoring stats.

You have to remember he is still young. He has some skill. He is more of a banger physical type where if he plays on a good offensive line he will get points. He needs to play with some offensive players. I see him being a 50-60 pt player if he plays on a good line. If they play him on the 4th line then he will have not much at all.

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04-30-2013, 01:16 AM
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I'd say his absolute ceiling is a 60pt power forward, who could just as well end up becoming a 35pt grinder. I do think he has the offensive skill to put up good points, but no guarantee of that. If he puts it all together, yes, he can be an offensive power forward.

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04-30-2013, 01:58 AM
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If he ever got more than 50 points in a season I would be absolutely ecstatic.

That is of course, while bringing an extremely physical and disciplined game while still fighting.

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04-30-2013, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
I may be in the minority here. But I view last year as Foligno getting a handful of games to see what he brings to the Sabres. THIS year (to me) was his rookie (full) year with the Sabres. So my opinion or comments are based on that mindset.

Foligno had a poor year IMO, but nothing to get bent out of shape about. He's a rookie, i believe he'll improve next season, and the season after that. If he plays a solid north south game which includes banging and a strong forcheck it will benefit his career. Not to mention working on his defense. I can see him develop into a Steve Ott type without the mouth.
I got very bent out of shape, right or wrong, after this year regarding him... Totally, completely, 1000% putting measurables aside, and not looking at points - he was a nonentity with regards to physicality, energy, and the forecheck. That was my big issue with this year. To look disinterested, seemingly because you "proved to belong on the team" is bad when you're so young and haven't earned anything regarding shifts off (games off).

To say he needs to bring back the energy and banging and intensity/tenacity on the forecheck is putting it blandly.

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04-30-2013, 02:04 AM
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In my mind, he can develop into a perfect 3rd liner player who can bang in 15-ish goals and 40ish points.

I really don't see these 60 pts power forward predictions coming true, those are Lucic-numbers. Not happening IMO.

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04-30-2013, 03:15 AM
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My expectations of Foligno weren't that of the run-away scoring forward some vocal few latched onto. Similar to the 90-point Ennis and the point-per-game Stafford, perhaps another lesson in tempering expectations.

That said, I don't think he was as bad as the OP indicates.

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04-30-2013, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
My expectations of Foligno weren't that of the run-away scoring forward some vocal few latched onto. Similar to the 90-point Ennis and the point-per-game Stafford, perhaps another lesson in tempering expectations.

That said, I don't think he was as bad as the OP indicates.
the 90pt Ennis is my favorite player ever!!

Curious to know in what aspect or facet of his game you weren't disappointed or overtly underwhelmed? I have trouble finding anything to hang my hat on there....and I tried to comb through to find positives because of how young and inexperienced he was. He just wasn't there for us.

Let me know if you disagree with any of this, or if you think any of it is extreme, exaggerated, or over the top; and if so, why?

• obviously didn't produce statistically, but that didn't bother me
• didn't hit with any regularity until the final four or five games, during which the difference in that type of play versus the first 40gp was painfully obvious
• his forechecking left a lot to be desired, and I don't mean that comparatively to what we saw the season prior, I mean that relative to those that actually did it
• the amount of over handling of the puck drove me nuts... Tried again and again to finesse or dangle his way into the zone and through opponents as opposed to going around me or through hem with physicality
• flat footed way too much, more so in the offensive zone
• had it in his head (appeared to me at least) that he has hands that are capable of stick handling his way out of trouble, which he doesn't
• didn't shoot enough

I'd say the best part of his season was the shift to center and how it allowed him to roam a bit more...once he shifted to the middle, he seemed to rekindle a lot of the things that made him uniquely effective. And he didn't do half bad on the defensive side of that, which is remarkable considering that one of the toughest things in the sport as a whole is to play sound defense as a center, knowing where to be, when to be there, how to track the puck, how to check opponents in our zone in open space (not hit them, keep them in check), etc

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04-30-2013, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
the 90pt Ennis is my favorite player ever!!

Curious to know in what aspect or facet of his game you weren't disappointed or overtly underwhelmed? I have trouble finding anything to hang my hat on there....and I tried to comb through to find positives because of how young and inexperienced he was. He just wasn't there for us.

Let me know if you disagree with any of this, or if you think any of it is extreme, exaggerated, or over the top; and if so, why?

obviously didn't produce statistically, but that didn't bother me
didn't hit with any regularity until the final four or five games, during which the difference in that type of play versus the first 40gp was painfully obvious
his forechecking left a lot to be desired, and I don't mean that comparatively to what we saw the season prior, I mean that relative to those that actually did it
the amount of over handling of the puck drove me nuts... Tried again and again to finesse or dangle his way into the zone and through opponents as opposed to going around me or through hem with physicality
flat footed way too much, more so in the offensive zone
had it in his head (appeared to me at least) that he has hands that are capable of stick handling his way out of trouble, which he doesn't
didn't shoot enough

I'd say the best part of his season was the shift to center and how it allowed him to roam a bit more...once he shifted to the middle, he seemed to rekindle a lot of the things that made him uniquely effective. And he didn't do half bad on the defensive side of that, which is remarkable considering that one of the toughest things in the sport as a whole is to play sound defense as a center, knowing where to be, when to be there, how to track the puck, how to check opponents in our zone in open space (not hit them, keep them in check), etc
I thought once Rolston arrived and sat him down, he started playing a north-south game and the lame dangling stopped. His physicality was at times spotty, but there were nights he brought it where the team was flat and he was much more consistent under Rolston than under Ruff. Early season use as a defensive zone player with Ennis and Stafford floundered in a lot of ways -- he got away from what makes his game work, his line didn't produce, and the team didn't win. His play further suffered until he rightly got sat down.

We saw a second year pro making mistakes early that were corrected as the season unfolded. He bottomed out, much like the entire team did, early. Part of that may have been over-use by Ruff (some nights over 20 minutes ToI). And while his minutes were down later in the season, his overall effectiveness continued to improve.

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04-30-2013, 09:13 AM
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He's still a rookie, playing on a bad team that went through a coaching change, trying to figure out how to succeed in the NHL. My opinion of his potential hasn't changed at all; I still think he has the tool box to be a Hartnell-lite type of player, which is to say not enough hockey sense or puck skills to be the creative force on a scoring line, but decent enough in those areas to be a gritty complementary player on one. He might top out as a 3rd liner too, but I haven't given up hope for the kid.

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04-30-2013, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Always thought his upside was a 40-45 pt 3rd liner who could bang, bring a little bit of offense,'and provide leadership qualities. I never hopped on that runaway bandwagon last spring/summer when it came to Marcus.
This.

I've ALWAYS viewed Marcus as a 3rd/4th line guy who should bring energy, grit, hitting, forechecking, work along the boards and an occasional goal. I had hoped that he'd develop his defensive game too.

Well.......dude needs to:

1.) Stop freaking acting like he's Briere/Afinogenov/Ennis out there and play a straight-ahead game. He's no dangler.
2.) WORK. I saw wayyyy too many games this year that he was a passenger.

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04-30-2013, 09:28 AM
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Some of us never had ridiculous expectations that now need to be tempered.

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04-30-2013, 09:35 AM
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I'm not worried about Foligno, he basically just finished his rookie season and has shown to be a very hard worker and good character guy on pretty much every level he played so far, he will keep improving.

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04-30-2013, 09:36 AM
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His lack of point production was a symptom of a overall lackadaisical play. He's not going to be the kid that showed up against Toronto every night, but intensity was lacking in 3 out of 4 games. He seems unable to manufacture it, which is unfortunate because I used to think it was a natural part of his personality. It worries me that it is not.

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04-30-2013, 09:39 AM
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Solid, physical game with some leadership qualities. I don't think his poor year changed that. I wouldn't have thought many here were convinced by his torrid run with Stafford and Ennis last year either. Maybe 40-50 points, if we're lucky.

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04-30-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
His lack of point production was a symptom of a overall lackadaisical play. He's not going to be the kid that showed up against Toronto every night, but intensity was lacking in 3 out of 4 games. He seems unable to manufacture it, which is unfortunate because I used to think it was a natural part of his personality. It worries me that it is not.
me too

he got a taste of big time scoring (flukey FES production).... and seemED to want to be that player this year, instead of the player we need him to be... the player he has the skill set to be...

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04-30-2013, 10:18 AM
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I think he can be inserted on any line on the team, just depends on the chemistry. Playing as the mucker / grinder with 2 skilled players on the 1st or 2nd line; or where his skill set seems to indicate as a part of the 3rd line in a traditional role. I see him as a bigger, lesser skilled version of Ott in that he can be used effectively in more places in a lineup than a Kaleta.

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04-30-2013, 10:41 AM
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me too

he got a taste of big time scoring (flukey FES production).... and seemED to want to be that player this year, instead of the player we need him to be... the player he has the skill set to be...
He has to realize that he can still get some of that scoring by using that skill set. I don't want him to devolve into a bernier or pyatt

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04-30-2013, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
His lack of point production was a symptom of a overall lackadaisical play. He's not going to be the kid that showed up against Toronto every night, but intensity was lacking in 3 out of 4 games. He seems unable to manufacture it, which is unfortunate because I used to think it was a natural part of his personality. It worries me that it is not.
Hockey seasons are long and not all the games mean something. I'm sure a lot of players struggle to get emotionally and physically invested in every single one. I think having a guy like Ott around should be helpful for Foligno in that regard though.

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04-30-2013, 11:08 AM
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I think after (if) Vanek is traded that Foligno could be a candidate to take his spot in front of the net on the Powerplay. Not sure if that would cause him to be a 55-60 point player or not but it is something to think about.

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04-30-2013, 12:32 PM
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I've always thought he could be a great 3rd liner who can play in the top 6 and not look out of place if need be. I like his playmaking skills. I think he's a bit underrated in that part of his game. He just needs to bring energy and physicality every game. Steve Ott is someone he can model his game after.

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04-30-2013, 01:17 PM
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Hes Still better then Kassian. Had a much better ppg and hits per game.He hasnt even played a full season yet and power forwards take longer to Develop.

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